411 – 150 Craft Shows in 3 Years! with Grant and Jennifer Anderson

Gift is Unwrapped Guest,

episode number 411.

People liked it and I added more stuff and then Grant

added his stuff and then,

yeah, I mean,

it just happened.

Attention, gifters,

bakers, crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one,

now you are in the right place.

This is Gift Biz Unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow your gift biz.

Here is your host Gift Biz gal,

Sue Mohe.

Hi there,

it's Sue and thanks for joining me for the show today.

We've covered so many facets of a handmade product business over

the course of the years,

and today is no exception.

We've talked about how to start and grow your business stories

from many of you who have done just that.

How to choose and use social media sites,

build your website.

Oh my gosh,

there is just so much information here for you,

but not necessarily at your fingertips.

So I've made a tool for you that categorizes by topic

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but only the ones that stay relevant over time because yes,

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It makes finding the shows to help you with what you're

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So much easier.

To access this free resource,

go to gift biz unwrapped.com/topics.

I'm really excited for us to get into today's show.

As you saw from the title,

this couple has done over 150 in-person shows over just the

last three years.

That's not a typo given that high level of activity.

You know,

they have a ton of experience and some great tips to

share on many facets of craft show exhibiting,

but there's even more.

You're going to hear about the unexpected start into their business,

how they merged together as a husband and wife team,

and what they see for the future.

This episode is jam-packed with great stories to learn from and

what can happen if you just start and pave the path

forward from there.

I think Jennifer and Grant even surprised themselves,

Grant and Jennifer Anderson are a husband and wife team out

of Brownsburg,

Indiana and the owners of Uptown Common.

including plant hangers and wall hangings.

Grant began adding leather goods to the business booth early in

2020 and shortly after that they also started selling plants so

customers could complete their plant hangar entirely in their shop.

Uptown Common travels around the Midwest to artisan markets.

To date,

they've done nearly 150 markets.

Can you believe that?

150 Grant and Jennifer also hosted their first artisan market last

year, which was an exciting undertaking.

They leveraged their significant experience as vendors,

as well as the relationships with other show vendors that they

had to make their show.

Grant and Jennifer,

welcome to the Gift Biz Unrepped podcast.

Thank you for Having us.

Hello. Hi.

I'm so excited to talk more than what we just said

in the intro,

but learn more about Uptown Common.

But before we do that,

I have a motivational candle question for you.

This is something that I ask all my guests before each

podcast to get to know you in a little bit of

a different way.

And you guys said you each had your own candles.

Jennifer, why don't you start?

What would be your motivational candle if it spoke everything about

you? A color and maybe a quote or a saying,

A color.

I would say sage green.

Ooh, And a word?

Bold. Bold.

Okay. Why do you pick sage Green?

I think it blends with everything.

Well, I'm kinda thinking with your planters,

you know,

that's where my mind went first.

Yeah. Are you a naturey type of a person?

And Yes,

we do a lot of hiking and we have,

I mean,

I don't know if you,

Ooh, we have lots of plants.

We sell lots of plants,

so that's a good connection too.

Yeah, Perfect and bold,

man. You need that for starting a business no matter what,

right? Yes.

I betcha some of that'll come out in the story as

we go.

For sure.

Okay, grant,

let's talk about your motivational candle.

So I was also going with green.

We didn't discuss our candles with each other beforehand.

Oh, I love it.

Does it have a different hue or is it also sage?

Not so much sage,

no. More of,

yeah, what you'd see in plants,

things like that.

Just, and of course,

this time of year,

central Indiana,

everything is brown and gray and not pretty.

So yeah,

looking forward to spring and the green coming back on the

leaves and the grass.

So definitely kind of the renewing of life here from the

Yeah, and I think for mine,

I would have Elroy coming out of Genesis in the Bible,

the God who sees me and just something,

especially running a small business,

we're all fighting for exposure,

fighting to be seen on many different social media.

Etsy is another one,

which we've kind of dipped our toes into a few times,

but those are all difficult places to kind of get notice.

So kind of looking back to that and knowing that our

creator does see us regardless of how we're doing here in

the world and the efforts we're making,

I really like that.

It's a nice overlay mindset to think about when you are

struggling getting visibility everywhere else,

it is crazy out there trying to get noticed and then

you know,

have deeper conversations,

et cetera.

Hence all the one-on-one shows you do,

which is great,

right? It's way easier.

Oh yes.

Sounds easier.

I think we all kind of thought way in the beginning

when technology,

like the web came about and all that as makers,

oh, well I can just hit home behind a computer,

put things up,

people will see and buy my products and life will be

beautiful. And we all know that is not reality.

We've talked to some people who have made that their reality,

but it takes a lot of time,

lot of focus,

lot of efforts.

We met a lady last year that was doing jewelry,

met her in Chicago,

LA Grange,

actually outside of Chicago and she was,

that was gonna be one of her last shows.

So she was gonna do what?

Just a couple shows a year after that.

So Jennifer ended up buying a necklace from her and,

but yeah,

she, she hit it online,

but took a lot of years of dedication to get there.

Yeah, I mean that's the thing.

You just don't go online and everyone miraculously finds you,

right? You've gotta work the system.

So I think that's the fun thing about a maker business

too. Well a business for yourself,

but a maker business is you can go out to shows

and interact with people if that's what you like to do.

Or you can stay home and make,

I mean,

we have a lot of people who are listeners who,

for whatever reason,

maybe they're taking care of someone who's home bound or they

themselves aren't able to get out and be as mobile,

then they can sell online or a combination of the two.

You can really write your own recipe however you wanna do

it, but no matter what,

it still takes work.

You still have to learn how to do it.

Yes. So Jennifer,

you kicked this whole business thing off it sounds like,

right? With your mcay?

I did,

yes. Yeah.

And I'm guessing you guys were already married at the time?

Yes. Okay.

All right.

So how did you bring this concept home?

Tell me that when it was just the initial thought in

your head about doing this.

It wasn't a thought,

It was a stroke of genius maybe,

I dunno,

what was It?

I quit my full-time job.

I took a part-time job so I had some extra time

and I was like,

ah, I wanna learn how to make a mc plant hanger.

So I looked at some videos and I taught myself how

to do it and then somehow within like eight weeks or

so, I was selling them at markets and then,

I mean people liked it and I added more stuff and

then Grant added his stuff and then,

yeah, I mean it just happened.

There was no plan.

So you started as a hobby just to do it because

it looked fun,

right? I wanted one That's not the story anymore.

And then did friends see it or like where was the

jump from?

I have one to all of a sudden you're at a

show. You just decided that would be fun to try and

to do.

I mean,

yeah, they didn't exist anywhere then.

You couldn't buy them in the store.

People weren't making 'em.

So it was somehow,

it just,

I mean it was never an actual thought like I'm gonna

make this a business.

It was like I just taught myself how to do something

that probably other people might want.

There are lots of plant people around cuz I was thinking

plant hangers mostly.

And right.

I signed up for a market at a church the Saturday

And then I did three or four more that year before

that got,

you know,

Well yeah,

we know what happened then.

Boy we still Ended up eating 25 that year though.

So I mean in this,

in the last half of the year when at least here

in Indiana they were a little different and you could do

some gatherings outside with all the rules.

But Yeah.

So take me to that first show that you did.

So it was a church auction or church bazaar and perfect

timing cuz if it was right after Thanksgiving,

that's going into holiday,

it's really not that long ago,

but macrame was starting to come to the forefront again.

So I think you also landed it at a good time

Somehow. Yeah.

Again, there was no point in that.

So I'm sure it's definitely not the booth that I saw

with you at the one of a kind show,

but what did your first table look like at that church?

I'm thinking for people who are listening who are thinking about

a first show and be like,

oh my god,

what do I do?

How do I display?

I mean it's an evolution right from your first table to

the booth that you have now described as your first one.

Yeah, so I mean it's,

it was a 10 by 10.

Oh you had a whole section then?

Yeah, it was a 10 by 10.

That's a lot to fill for your first one.

I know.

And that's when I'm like,

oh my gosh,

like what do I do with this space?

How do I display things?

I don't even know how people,

I mean I've been to some markets before like so I

wasn't totally clueless but I never ever considered like,

should people walk in?

Should I just walk by?

I didn't have any signage grant cut some wood pieces and

I stained 'em and we propped 'em up and it was

not good.

It did not work very well for like some of the

small things I thought.

Thought oh I can just lean them up.

Like kinda like a jewelry case kind of without the glass.

That didn't work very well.

But I had a clothes rack which we still use today.

The same style and everything we went to,

they're actually from Ikea,

they break down small,

they're black,

which fits our brand.

And we used those and hung some plant hangers there.

I was by myself so I don't know,

were you working?

I guess you probably were working Yeah,

working weekends at the time I was by myself carrying all

this stuff in.

I had no clue like what to expect.

I ended up on a corner which totally was like,

Oh that totally messed up your plan.

I bet.

Because now you have two,

I mean I was just,

you lost A whole wall.

Yeah. But you got more visibility then too cuz people are

coming from both angles.

Yeah, so back then even people,

like other vendors and I,

perhaps it was because of the placement I had in the

layout, they were like,

I've been staring at your plant hangers all day and I

just have to buy one before I leave.

And I'm like really?

So were you shocked,

like what happened?

Do you remember that first sale?

No, not the first sale.

Like the whole market thing was overwhelming cuz I mean I've

never used Square or any sort of payment thing like that

and I had no idea like what people were gonna ask

me or what they were gonna say or what I should

say. I,

it's all kind of blurry.

I remember being in the basement and it was kind of

dark, like that's where they had their whole event and being

really nervous about how am I gonna set this up and

what are other people gonna think and is anyone gonna buy

anything? And I don't know what happens if I can't access

the wifi or something and I can't take payment and what

if I don't have enough chain?

I mean it was just like all these things but people

bought stuff and liked it and not by me asking or

them even trying to offer suggestions,

but they would just ask questions like what if you had

a few plants there cuz you have to display 'em.

But we weren't selling plants.

It was never even a thought back then.

It wasn't even an idea to have,

cuz I make my plant hangers now to fit a specific

pot so it looks right And most mcara people that I've

come across so far in these years don't do that.

Well that was partially grant's idea.

And then other customers wanting the same thing,

they're like,

it's really hard to find pots that fit in these things

so it doesn't squeeze in at the top or it's not

too tight.

Yeah so a lot of learning from that first show for

sure. Yeah Because everything was new payment systems display.

Yes. People actually liking what you're making which had to be

so fulfilling.

Yeah, I mean it's a little bit of a shock.

I probably,

anyone who started selling stuff that they make,

it's a little bit of a shock.

Like wow,

people really like this.

I always tell people who are just thinking about starting a

business is to do exactly what you did.

Get it out to people you don't know cuz friends and

family aren't a reliable judge,

right? They're gonna be nice to you.

Right? So,

but go out to people that you don't know and validate.

Validate the product and just like you did with a church

bazaar, perfect situation because number one you can see if you

like even doing this,

right? Because you were saying you didn't even think really about

it being a business yet.

But if you like doing it and then what's the receptivity

of it?

And then feedback,

you know on pricing,

on displays,

on questions.

Can we do different colors?

Like who knows what it would look like,

right? So I love what you did even by way of

just example for anybody else.

So what would you say to somebody who is thinking about

starting with a little show like that and is super nervous

just like you were with all your questions,

what would you advise them?

I mean you just have to do it perhaps if you

have the chance,

go visit some before,

you know,

like pretty immediately before so you can see how other people

are displaying their things or just how it flows from not

the shopper perspective but from the vendor perspective.

I didn't do that but I think that would've been helpful

to have some better ideas of what displays could look like

or how people flow or it never even occurred to me.

I could be on a corner so like if I would've

gone ahead of time to some other markets,

I might have noticed that that was a possibility.

I mean it totally makes sense that it's a possibility but

But you're not thinking about that cuz you're thinking about all

this other stuff.

Right? So I would say going to visit some pretty immediately

beforehand and thinking with like vendor eyes instead of shopper eyes

and and even ask questions of the vendors.

Most of them we've come across are pretty friendly and they'll

tell you their experiences and what they've learned or even just

So really just do it and if you make a mistake

or do something wrong or didn't consider something like a corner

in your case,

you just adjust and you roll with it and then you

can perfect from there.

Right? Yeah,

I mean there is a level of,

you have to just have the mindset of being flexible because

I mean we now know and even from that first time

you have no clue what might be waiting for you when

you arrive.

Right, right.

Or what's gonna happen or all that.

So Okay,

well you obviously did something right because then Grant wanted in

on the deal,

right? Yeah.

So how did that all happen?

You didn't even give her a full year on your end.

You're jumping in.

So my job at the time I was working e-commerce operations.

I was working weekends,

which is why she was going solo to all these shows.

But I was supposed to have a three day work week

and I had tried multiple hobbies in the past.

I had tried some metalworking knife making some woodworking in the

past and none of it really stuck and I'm like,

you know what,

let's give leather a try.

So it was,

I don't know,

probably about five or six years ago I said I had,

you know,

started buying some what I thought at the time were nicer

leather goods have since learned they're not as nice as they

were kind of portrayed to me.

Oh really?

So different qualities of leather.

Yep. Different quality and the build quality was great but the

material quality Was lacking.

I see.

But yeah,

so I started learning more about this and decided with a

three day work week I needed a good hobby that would

prevent me from,

I don't know,

working out for 30 minutes and then sitting around for the

other 23 hours in the day watching television,

decided to pick up leather working and just,

yeah, started with cheap scraps from Michael's maybe or Hobby Lobby,

something like that.

They just sell a bag of scrap leather and started with

that which was really bad leather but it helped me start

to learn,

helped me stick my thumb the first couple dozen times and

learn there are better ways to sell leather by hand.

Okay. It still happens but not as often anymore.

But yeah,

it was just something kind of an interest of mine and

wanted to occupy some of my work week when I wasn't

actually working.

So were you doing that thinking Ah Jennifer has a booth

and maybe I can do something.

Maybe she'll let me in on the booth biz?

I don't really recall how it came about.

I mean that was probably it because why So think to

the first show that you guys did together.

What leather products did you introduce with her Mcma goods?

So the first show where leather products were in,

she was probably by herself still?

Yes. I'm pretty certain of it cause I was still working

weekends and it was probably,

I had some different actually July,

maybe July,

2020 Perhaps.

And actually have a lady who's been a repeat customer since

then that bought one of my first wallets and I am

completing another one in a different color for her.

I don't even make that wallet anymore but she wants another

one in this particular color so we're gonna make it happen.

And she is an in with the maker so,

So kind of went from there.

My first real mass produced wallets are slim wallet,

which we're gonna stop carrying in the booth but we still

will have available.

But yeah,

just always,

yeah looking into that next thing,

I don't know if key chains were part of the early,

I could go back and look at pictures but It was

you guys,

it wasn't that long ago And it was clearly mostly mc.

That's what people would've noticed if they yeah,

if they didn't stop to talk.

Like if I could talk with them they may not have

even noticed that there was leather and by then I'm not

even sure when he added leather,

if we even had like signage or ba I mean it

was still like New.

Okay. So when did you decide on a name and formalize

it? The business was the that after both the products were

made and No,

it was from the start.

Oh from the start.

Okay. It was already in my head.

The whole brand really was already in my head somehow.

Well how did it appear?

Like how did you think of the name?

wanted to open a wedding venue and so we had plans

drawn up by an architect for this big thing and then

an opportunity came along a few years later to perhaps do

a smaller one like that would fit like a hundred people.

So I needed to come up with a different name than

the original one I had.

Well that was uptown common for the smaller venue cause it

would be more urban and still a gathering place which was

common. So that was the name for that business idea.

And when I had to come up with one quickly like

in a few weeks,

that was what came to my mind and stuck And you

just rolled with it.

Yeah and it has worked really well.

I didn't know Grant was gonna add in leather but it

still works.

Yeah, I feel like the black,

it's strong and sturdy like leather,

you know,

long-term and it has a little bit of a vintagey retro

feel to it,

which really is macay but also leather.

That's quality.

Things are not as common to find currently.

It's more of a vintage I you know Right.

Vintage reinventing itself for today.

Yes. So it always existed from the first market.

We just didn't have any signage really that people would start

recognizing. But the black showed up in the tablecloths,

the brass,

well I dunno if brass showed up quiet that really,

cuz finding brass display pieces is kind of hard.

We have some now but they're in their vintage actually vintage

pieces. But yeah,

I mean it was always there.

It was always part of it and it has worked and

as far as I can see,

we'll continue working when Mac may is kind of,

you know,

it's a trend so it's gonna decrease.

You envision this being a rolling product situation like depending on

what's in,

what's coming down the pike et cetera,

you might integrate in other things.

I mean you don't know what the future's gonna hold yet

but so it's gonna be fluid uptown common will stay the

same but the products might be fluid based on popularity culture,

whatever. I mean I would think macro may goes away and

it's just leather really.

I mean we've seen that happen already and we already had

you know how long is mc may gonna be popular for

it. You know trends come and go so fast now and

it was starting to get popular.

You'd see it on HGTV and all those places and then

you start seeing like walls of it at TJ Max and

Marshalls and you can buy it online now.

So it's eventually and maybe sooner rather than later gonna lose

it's in for people.

But leather has already picked up,

like it's already switching.

So mc may got us here,

leather's gonna get us forward.

Right. But really good point to watch what's happening around you.

So many of us will just think,

you know,

what we're making is so beautiful,

people love it so much.

And then a second later it's not,

I mean and even big brands like look at Blockbuster,

you know like one minute they were,

everyone was going every single weekend or night or whatever and

then the next couple years,

I know it took a little bit of time but all

of a sudden they were caught unaware and shut everything down.

Right? So it's really smart of you guys to be watching

trends and what's going on and staying relevant and as makers

you can do that cuz you can adjust your products.

Yeah we can adjust quickly.

Yes. Notice.

Yeah, You know certain things Mc may,

things haven't sold as well.

Plant hangers still sell well so we,

you know,

I make more of those or this year we are gonna

have like a hybrid kind of booth option.

So some markets we might apply for will be only leather,

some would be mcma and leather,

some would have a higher percentage of plants like around us

there's some plant markets so we have access to plants and

plant hangers fit and a lot of those people like leather

stuff so we can increase the amount of plants we have.

So somehow like we can adjust.

Yeah, very flexible.

Yeah. And fit the need of the market or like the

individual market or the trends,

you know as I,

but I don't macro,

I mean there's not a better way to hang a plant

than a plant hanger.

So I think that will always be true but people aren't

gonna want so many of them in their house and it's

not gonna be while hangings.

Yeah I do classes,

which is kind Of definitely wanna talk about that too.

But let's stay with the core business development first.

150 shows in,

let's call it two and a half years given we had

some downtime.

Yeah. Talk to me about how that's affected your life and

what you love about it,

what you don't love about it.

Any comments either of you wanna give me on these shows?

Cuz that's a heavy schedule no question.

Yeah, we don't find too many people who do as many

as we have done.

So it is apparently unusual.

That part wasn't necessarily accidental.

Like some of the other things as I'm looking at all

these markets and they keep coming to us as we were

going places,

So they're approaching you,

Right? And that only happened from the beginning and again,

I don't know,

I mean it just happened but I was like,

I don't know how we can pick,

how do we know which ones are good?

How do we know since we're new,

which cities we should be in,

which types of markets we should be at?

We just don't know.

And the only way you can know is to do it.

So Right.

We did I think in 20 21,

60 some markets,

Like that was intentional,

Not necessarily to carry on that way just for discovery of

what markets were the best.

Yeah. So we could have something to go on because how

do you know?

Okay, so that's more than a market a week.

Yes. And were some of these like just single day events

versus several days?

Like the one of a kind show that's you know,

a few days?

Yeah, they were both.

They were both.

I mean that one is probably the,

well that's not even the longest one we've ever done.

We've done 10 day once,

10 day markets.

The one up in Milwaukee maybe Covered bridge.

No. Oh there's another show for you to look at All

sort. I mean they just keep coming.

People just keep mentioning all these things and it,

I mean you have to do it to know but you

also have to do it to know.

So how did this affect your lifestyle?

What did it look like that year of 61 shows Pretty

much every weekend I was at a market and Grant was

at a different market.

Oh so you divided and conquered?

Yeah, so we would split up and go wherever and so

we had to get double everything to booths that were a

good representation of our brand,

our things,

I mean,

yeah, have the help of family.

Vast majority of our markets are one or two day markets.

So we do have the three days or hit a little

more common four days.

We've just done a couple of those and then yeah,

we've had a nine day and a 10 day market as

well. So yeah,

most of 'em though were just Friday,

Saturday or Saturday and Sunday occasionally all three of those days.

But yeah,

it was definitely a lot of divide and conquer.

It was,

we did think it out that hey it's gonna be a

tough year but definitely some long days involved driving a couple

hours, setting up a booth,

working all day,

packing up a booth and driving a few hours home and

being outta the house for 18 or 20 hours.

It will wear on you after a little while but definitely

worth it.

Especially when you find a good show.

Some of our last year especially,

we had two shows that we both one day shows and

we did that and they became two of our best shows

And it was despite the long hours,

there's a little more energy driving home after you've had a

great day,

sold a lot of good connections with people.

Were the majority of your shows then ones that you could

get home to.

So you have a radius then around where you live,

kind of looking at the shows versus going coast to coast

cuz there are so many shows you can do,

Right? Yeah,

I mean usually we three hours but sometimes that still requires

a overnight stay if it's a two day or three day

market you have to look at the logistics of it.

But yeah,

I mean basically we're at markets or making stuff.

Okay. And then how do you judge whether a show's been

a success?

Us hold tight.

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Multiple things go into it.

I wanted to have basically the booth fee.

I wanted to get 10 times the booth fee and that

was kind of a marker that I had in my head

for whatever reason.

As we've gone through time,

it's obvious that paying $200 to get into a show and

making a thousand is better than paying $75 to get into

a show and making 750 if you make more money that

way. Or maybe my math didn't work out in that instance,

but the 10 times rule doesn't necessarily Yeah,

play out all the way.

So that was something early on.

Obviously sales are a big deal.

We can't go to these shows,

pay the booth fee,

pay possible hotel fee,

travel everything else and come away losing money.

Can't do that too many times before you're no longer a

business. But we do have residual sales so as we get

into especially some custom leather work,

so I'll leave a lot of shows and one of a

kind was a prime example of that with some orders to

do and I've still got a couple to fulfill on that.

Just got some leather in yesterday to fill one and waiting

on leather to come back in stock for one more.

But yeah,

we had calls for other belts to be made and just

those residual sales,

those connections you make having those business cards and just being

welcoming and making an impression on people.

So when they see the booth and they're like,

hey really like what you're doing and the makers in front

of you and you can talk about your product and they

love it.

People like having that connection Now you've only been able to

repeat maybe one,

possibly two years depending on which shows they were.

Are you seeing people coming back already knowing you at this

point? Even brand new shows.

We know people,

it's amazing Because people like to go to these shows,

right? Like if it's a lifestyle that they like to go

to craft shows or farmer's markets or whatever,

then they go to multiple ones too.

Yes, they'll go to multiples and from a vendor perspective they

will follow you and see what shows you're going to.

Ah. And we've got some of those customers,

they come and find us and they just,

hey, if you're doing this show it's gonna be a good

one. And when you hear that from a customer like that

definitely lists your spirits and it's like,

hey we're doing something right here.

Every time someone buys something of mine,

I feel a little humbled like they're spending their hard-earned money

for something that I made by hand,

Right? So It's definitely something humbles me every time.

I'm thankful for them trusting in me stand behind my product.

I don't think they're making a bad choice ever,

but it's still just something that kind of catches me off

guard every time.

Well I have to say like you two work the booth

so wonderfully because it's such a joy to go in and

chat with you.

I don't know if you remember my interaction with you guys

in the booth.

I was the one who sat around that coaster spinning thing

for like 45 minutes deciding.

Cause I had to have the right colors.

Absolutely. And you also offer customization in your booth.

You might remember this now.

I had the dog print with the heart coasters and I

had the dog names.

You engraved the dog names on them For my daughter.

For her it was one of her Christmas presents.

Yes. The dog names were Ladybug and Oscar.

Does it ring a bell?

Yes, rings a bell.

Yes. Yes you're right.

But that's so fun too that you can do that right

on site there.

And it took literally seconds for you to do.

And then of course I bought more cuz that's when I

got around figuring out all the colors and all of that

going on on.

Yes. But you guys have great interaction together and then also

it's just very friendly and comfortable in your booth.

Has that evolved over time or Yeah,

I think it speaks more to both of our nature.

We're both introverted by nature.

We want you to feel welcome but not us hovering over

you saying don't wanna be pushy,

not trying to do hard sales or anything like that.

Just hey,

take a look around if you have any questions,

let us know.

Right. Also,

I think we both view it,

we would rather build a relationship than make a sale too.

You know like relationships will lead to sales.

It's true,

you're right.

We both think like we would just rather know this person

and see what they're interested in.

May not be our stuff or it might be,

or it could be a custom piece or we could direct

'em to somebody that we know who can do better,

what they're looking for.

You know,

like it's more of a relationship.

Yeah. Like we lead with that first,

which maybe makes it more friendly.

Yeah, no it's a very comfortable vibe.

Every booth feels a little different and that's something I'm always

looking at is you know how welcoming and comfortable.

Because if someone,

like you were saying Jennifer,

if someone's hovering over you,

like even if I like their product,

I might leave because it's too much already.

Like I don't want that pressure.

And I think sometimes too,

and your products fit into this,

people need to think for a second.

Like they like what they're seeing but like will I use

it if I will,

what color is the right one?

Or if it's a gift,

like is it right And you need that quiet time for

yourself to think,

you know,

versus someone asking you or trying to sell you on all

the colors or Right.

That it's like okay,

too much I gotta go.

Well yeah cause it's not better for people to buy our

stuff and it just gets stuffed in a closet.

That's not the point,

you know like Right.

That's not the point at all.

We want them to use it or hang it or put

their card cash in it and carry it around,

you know,

their wallet in their pocket and that's how I would wanna

shop too.

You know like I wanna think about it,

I wanna have time and Yeah,

you're there to answer questions if they want.

You acknowledge people,

you chat with people if you kind of intuitively feel they're

interested in talking,

but then otherwise you let them just look and see.

So we've been talking a lot about face-to-face and I do

wanna get to a couple of other things on that end.

But where in everything did online e-commerce come in?

You know,

you'd referenced Etsy a little bit,

but I know you have a Shopify website cuz I've been

snooping. Tell us about the evolution of that.

So Shopify,

I think we set it all up in like spring of

2020 Because you had the time time cuz you couldn't go

out to shows.

Well not even that but yes,

I mean that gave us more time to spend on it,

but it's kind of hard without,

we had only done,

I had only done what,

maybe 10 or less markets so we didn't even know what

we should have on there.

So we had this site and time to do stuff with

it, but we didn't know what people would want.

I mean even what is the behind the scenes thinking about

creating a good website,

Shopify was really good and really helpful.

They have a whole lot helpful.

So you did this site yourself?

Yes. And why did you choose Shopify as you were just

starting? Why did you gravitate to that one?

Because it seemed like it had the best growth options.

Use the point of sale for the markets as well.

Okay. And were you doing that already before you did the

website or you just saw oh this is a good opportunity

to do both things at the same time?

Yeah, so we were using Square beforehand.

I think Shopify is the one I recommend always anyway.

But I'm just curious about your experience.

So yeah,

there's pluses and minuses,

but so far as far as I can tell still Shopify

has the best growth potential for like if you wanna increase

your online sales,

if you wanna attach,

you know,

your point of sale to your inventory and you know,

there's just the most and they have the most helpful things

like resources out there.

So that's what made me pick them because I didn't want

to have to do this all over again.

Sure, Yeah.

And the price was,

I didn't think that much more for the potential benefit long

term. So let's just get it set up the way we

think we need it and have room to grow into it.

And you know,

the things that we need,

you can add the apps if you want to like grant

personalization of his stuff,

that's an app you can add on and you know,

there's things that you can add in to make it more

of what you need it to be for whatever you're doing.

But that was it.

How did you find support services for,

I mean were they helpful or did they have documentation that

you could resource if you were unclear about how to put

do something?

Yeah, they're actually really good.

There's videos,

there's written stuff,

there's a whole help thing.

You can chat with somebody if you need to and you,

sometimes it's more complicated and you'll have to hire somebody to

help you if you have something more complex that you need

to have happen.

But everything we've done,

we've done ourselves.

Well The site looks great,

I have to say.

No it it does.

It looks really nice.

It's very clean,

it all looks unified.

It's definitely got your branding so I think it looks great.

But I love the fact that you did it all yourself.

I was telling you a little earlier before we started recording

that I was talking with someone yesterday,

she had someone build her whole Shopify site.

But now anytime she wants,

nope, I can't say that it's Shopify,

she had someone build her website but because she didn't create

it herself,

anything that she wants to add or put in,

she has to go through somebody else.

Which that's okay because she says,

you know what,

I wanna spend my time doing something else.

I mean it's just,

it's another decision point,

right, of what you wanna be doing and how you wanna

work your business,

right? Yeah.

But I love your story about Shopify.

I recommend Shopify to everybody for exactly the reasons you said.

Yeah and we do too when people ask or what do

you, how do you guys,

how did you do this?

And it's like you just have to put the effort in,

you know?

I mean,

but yeah,

right. If you don't have the time to put the effort

in, there are options you can Hire before.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I also like that you started your website after you'd

been out to shows for a little while cuz even if

you didn't know everything,

you already were feeling okay,

I'm getting some traction,

people are buying the product.

I think that makes you feel better about investing in an

online platform regardless of what it is.

Yeah. And it also seemed like it would make us more

official. Yeah.

Like when you have a website you can direct people to,

it seems more real.

You know,

just, hey we set up a table in this church basement

this one time and now we're trying,

you know,

it seems more professional.

Well so you've already started answering my question,

how did business change after?

So it's a great resource for people when you're not in

person, right?

For sure.

You can also collect emails on your website.

I'm not sure if you're doing that or not.

Are you collecting emails?

Okay. Do you collect emails at the booth too in person?

We've had a struggle with that figuring out the best way

to do it.

And I actually just,

I don't know,

a few weeks ago,

got some advice from Shopify when some of their videos,

they're really good at responding like YouTube videos.

So I was watching some like how can we do this

better? How can we get more people there to sign up?

And they gave me some helpful tips because most of our

interaction with people is in person,

not through our website.

So if we're just waiting for people to show up on

the website,

that's not really gonna happen,

Right? Because the way you're set up in person is everything.

So huge opportunity there.

How can we do that without like writing names down and

like to get much more streamlined for people and not be,

they just want a real quick,

yeah. So you're developing that.

When I see you again in a show,

I'm gonna see,

I'm gonna be what you got there.

So let's carry on cause there are so many things I

wanna talk with you about.

But, so it sounds like you dabbled in Etsy a little

bit, but then you gravitated to Shopify right away.

Is that kind of the story?

Do you still have an Etsy site shop?

We have an account,

but I don't think there's anything on there right now.

There's so much noise,

it's just fine.

Traction at some of the shows,

actually one of a kind,

we saw someone from Michael's who is,

they're launching something in at Small Makers and so we haven't

heard any follow up on that,

which I was expecting to hear by now.

So I don't know what exactly they're doing.

But we met representative in Glen Ellen College of DuPage.

We did a show and then at one of time he

was back.

So that was just another connection and just one of those,

you know,

we're at this show in Chicago,

we haven't been here before,

huge show and here comes song we know.

There you go.

Yeah. And it was kind of of cool seeing people again

and yeah,

we saw a handful of people again up There.

Nice. Macrame was never on Etsy.

It was leather.

Yeah, just leather that you tried To,

I think that's smart too,

because if you were gonna put both up,

you should actually have two shops,

you know,

for Etsy,

you know,

cuz people,

that's a whole nother story.

We're not gonna go all the way there.

Okay. Social.

Where does that fit into your plan?

Or does it since you're doing so much in person?

Yeah, we do a lot on social media.

I think.

I mean,

if it's hard to come up with something every day or

most days,

you know,

you gotta have good pictures,

you gotta say something smart or something funny.

And there's always new like stickers and new things that you

have to learn and people pay attention different ways.

And so it seems like a lot,

But what's your platform of choice that you focus on the

most? We get the most engagement on Instagram.

I was thinking you'd say that,

yeah, We have it linked with Facebook,

so everything goes over there.

But yeah,

Instagram is definitely where we see mostly back and forth.

Yeah, Yeah.

Well and you guys do have a lot of content because

even just pictures,

it shows,

you know,

I mean now that Instagram doesn't have to be the formal

staged, beautiful magazine type photos anymore,

you know,

you could do stories or reels or whatever.

You've got so much with shows too.

Yeah. And we just started doing some more videos,

I don't know,

the last half of last year.

And that has helped.

It's kind of scary.

Doesn't have to be scary.

I mean,

once you start doing it a bit,

you know,

it's, I mean it seems like a scary thing to start

doing, but once you start doing it,

it becomes less of a big deal.

Although you just don't wanna say something stupid,

But, and if you do,

you do.

Like, it doesn't even,

well you're talking me live videos too,

you know,

like you can do video and then place it up.

But I'm thinking like Grant,

when you do the lettering for the coasters or other things,

that would even be cool just to see how that's done.

Yep. Placing the letters,

doing the stamping,

showing the finish.

I mean,

that's a reel right there,

you know,

at any show you do.

So social media as well.

Okay, let's talk about your classes.

How did that start?

I was on a market and a woman asked me if

I do classes.

I, and previous to that,

people have asked if I did classes and I was like,

no, like what do I know?

Why could I teach you?

What do you know you make these beautiful Mac For just

like a few months it seemed like.

But she asked me and I said no,

and she kept asking like she got my phone,

which, or you know,

it's okay that she did this,

but she was texting me like,

when are you gonna do classes?

I really think this is a good idea.

And I'm like,

who is this lady And why is she so sure that

this is gonna work?

I kept telling her no.

And then I said fine.

Okay. And probably because of the full-time job I left was

traveling around and setting up events in other people's spaces.

So that's just what came to my mind.

And I was like,

like, okay,

you gather people,

I'll come to your house.

And it worked really well,

like really well.

So then those same people did another class,

like they got together and did a second class,

and then some of those individual people got their friends,

you know,

separate friends or family together and did classes and then it

just kept going.

It kept going.

And now you do leather classes too,

and you have a central location where you conduct the classes.

Is that what I'm understanding?

That's what I'm getting from the website.

No, we occasionally do public classes.

So sometimes like a coffee shop or a,

the one we're promoting most right now is a,

it's actually a market,

three-day market in nearby us that is allowing us to do

classes in our booth space.

So we got a double boost space,

so we'll have half of it for classes and half of

it for no normal booth.

And we're trying to sell tickets for that.

But usually it's on the person who wants to host the

class to get all the people and to have the space

and to do so we just show up with our stuff

and the equipment needed and teach them and we pack it

all up and go home and they can continue on.

It worked really well.

So you don't have to do all the promotion with that

then. Right.

And it's a good feel because they all know each other

and they wanna hang out together,

which there's nothing wrong with public classes,

clearly we're doing some,

but it is easier because they know each other.

There's less awkwardness in the beginning when you're trying to get

people to know each other and feel comfortable when you do

it in someone's home.

They have the food they like and they have the drinks

they want and they have all the things that they feel

comfortable with.

Right. And people have thought,

oh, it's weird that you go into people's homes.

And I'm like,

it's never been weird for me.

Never not once been weird or awkward.

People are excited.

Well, yeah,

and it's a much more comfortable environment and we're used to

that from all the old,

you know,

pampered chef parties and all the things from the past.

But I have a question for you.

I've had conversations with Makers before because I feel that they're

at the point where they should be doing classes and their

comment to me is,

no, why am I gonna share how I make this?

Because that person is gonna go and start a company and

then be my competitor.

No, like,

I mean all these people,

and I don't even know how many hundreds of people have

been in a class,

like they're there to have fun and really if they wanted

to compete with you,

they could go look up,

like with mce you can do what I did and teach

yourself from YouTube videos.

Like it's not,

what's the word,

top secret proprietary.

Like there's nothing,

right? It's just putting in the effort.

And most people are not interested in putting in the effort.

And if they weren't,

I would say go for it.

If you think you wanna do this,

there's places you can do it and I'm glad to help

you if you want to.

But The other thing is they see the intricacy in that

it's way more difficult than it looks.

And that's what a lot of people say.

They're like,

oh, now I see why the prices are what they are,

because now I've experienced it and I understand to make well

hanging straight,

you have,

I mean,

it's not just something you throw together from a kit,

you know,

like you have to have practice,

then you have to put the effort in to actually make

nice looking things that people would wanna buy.

You know,

if you're just gonna hang in your house because you wanted

a plant hanger and some some way to hang it,

then maybe it doesn't matter.

But if you're trying to sell it,

it's a whole different level.

And no one's ever even said that.

Some people are like,

oh, I wanna try and remember how to do this,

not so I can make another plant hanger for this other

plant I want.

I don't even know if they ever end up doing that,

you know?

Right. Well so it's the quality and the skill that you

attain over time.

Right. But it's also,

I mean,

starting a business is a whole different thing than making a

product. We've been talking about that this whole time.

Right? There's so much to it.

You putting yourself out there,

all of the hard work,

figuring out website,

like there's so much to it that it's nice to look

from the outside in,

but when you're in it's way more complicated.

Yeah. It's never been an issue.

And really,

I think most people are doing classes because it's an experience,

it's something to do with their friends.

They're, most of 'em aren't even thinking,

I wanna remember how to do this so I can repeat

it myself.

They're just having fun.

They're just wanting the experience.

Yeah, Right.

Do you think you'd ever take your classes virtual?

That was suggested a while ago,

but it's really hard and several times since it's really hard

for a lot of people to learn that way.

So many people say that come to a class that I'm

doing and they're like,

well, I have this kid,

I got off of Amazon,

or I got for a gift for Christmas and I got

frustrated because I couldn't figure it out from the video or

from the paper that came with it or whatever resources were

provided. Like I couldn't figure it out,

so I just tossed it in the closet and I haven't

thought of it since.

But when you're here looking at it the same way I'm

looking at it,

instead of looking at it kind of backwards.

Yeah. Like I can help them say,

no, here's where you're going wrong,

here's how it's hard.

You can provide in the moment assistance to different people.

Yes. And then they're like,

oh, I get it.

And it clicks and then they can keep doing it and

maybe they'll go back and finish their kit or maybe they

don't. But yeah,

it just,

and maybe there's other things that are easier to learn virtually

than mce,

but it,

it's really hard to see it in a video or especially

on paper.

Yeah, that makes sense.

All right.

As we circle in and and close,

I can't end everything without talking about the artisan market that

you're hosting.

Like, don't you have enough on your plate already?

You're hosting a market.

It was a heavy lift,

that's for sure.

It's a lot,

but it's good.

I think.

Do you do it right in your community?

Somewhere close,

I'm hoping.

Yep. Yeah,

there's a,

it's a raceway for the N H R A.

Just they have a building that we can use that's pretty

well known around here and we know lots of vendors and

we know what vendors are looking for to make it a

good market for them.

And we kind of have a pretty good sense of what

shoppers are looking for,

you know,

with vendor mix and getting tired of the,

seeing the same stuff.

And I mean,

so it wasn't as hard as you might have thought it

could be,

but it was certainly a lot of effort.

Well, and totally different skills too.

Now I organize our community sidewalk sale.

At that time we had quite a few people participating and

I remember the drama and the comments and like everything that

went behind all of that.

Who wants to be with who and where,

and set up and licensing and you know,

like all that crazy stuff.

There were surely new things that you hadn't thought of when

you first envisioned hosting an event.

Just a few.

I mean,

and they were minor again,

somehow it just all was not as hard as it seemed

like. You've done one now And what was your overall reason

for hosting and adding this on to an already very full

plate? Was it more income for you or,

Oh no,

not more income.

Ok. Especially Not year,

not yet One.

Not Yet.

Get to that.

Cause let's nix the fallacy that this is a money maker,

a huge money maker anyway.

It is not a huge money maker.

Especially year one.

We did talk to someone who does bigger scale shows,

actually the show where we're gonna be doing the classes coming

up in Westfield and she said,

your first three to five years you're expected to lose money

hosting a show.

So we were not surprised to lose money.

But yes,

we certainly lost money last year.

But gave us something really solid to build upon.

I think,

I mean we saw some small things we would change,

but overall was pretty predictable.

We've been at enough shows that we kind of knew,

hey, where are pain points for a vendor that we can

take care of?

And that was one of the top feedback that we got

from our vendors was something that we addressed,

which one of a kind does.

So they do have the porters to take everything up to

your booth and we had people help unload cars and get

everything into the booth,

which it was less of a headache for us cuz we

could get traffic out of the way.

But vendors definitely appreciated also cause their cars unloaded in five

minutes instead of 30 minutes when you're carrying stuff yourself.

And let's face it,

a physical show is a lot of work just being in

the booth during the show,

not even the setup and the tear down part.

So your,

would you say that you know what you got out of

it was being able to put on a show that addressed

some of the issues that other shows,

you know,

pain points of other shows to see if you could create

a show that became all the more valuable to its participants?

Yeah, and also there's nothing like that in our area.

So like we travel all over,

we could see that like there's this empty space around us

where there's nothing like what we envision or the places we

even go happening of the quality and of the type of

shopper that we need to be successful.

It just doesn't exist nearby us.

And so we thought we could do it.

So we Did.

And you did and you did,

to your point about being bold,

right? Yeah,

It was really,

the market was very much in line with running the business.

So it's not the big grand thing that you do well,

it's the daily tasks that you do day in and day

out that keep it on pace.

And that's the same thing with running a small business like

this. It's not the new product,

it's making sure that every wall that I make has that

same quality and paying attention to those small details all the

time. I'm currently in project management,

it's the very much the same thing there.

It's everyone's looking for that home run,

what's gonna be my big break.

And your big break is just doing the same thing over

and over with quality,

with intention and just kind of setting a course and sticking

to it.

Yeah, so we were talking a few minutes ago about people

stealing, oh well I'm gonna build a business and be a

competitor. And one thing I saw at a show that we

I went around was gonna promote some other booths on our

social media,

just kind of promote the show in general and went up

to a booth and I said,

Hey, do you mind if I take some pictures?

And he was like,

oh, I don't mind.

No one's gonna copy my work.

It's too hard.

It was,

that mentality is a good one that no one wants to

do what I'm doing.

Like, yeah,

it looks cool,

sounds like a good idea.

But even if they try it,

they're gonna get a couple pieces in decide,

eh, I'll let him continue to do it.

This is too much work for me.

So hearing that perspective was definitely a different one that you

don't usually hear of those shows with a lot of artists

that are very protective of their work.

Yeah, and I feel like even if you made the exact

same thing,

it's the personality you bring to the booth,

like we were talking about before,

it's the way you do emails or you process your branding,

your website,

like it's all of this together.

Of course you gotta start with a good product but all

of it together,

which is why No,

especially with handmade creators,

no business can be exactly the same.

It just can't.

All right.

I lied to you guys cuz I told you I was

gonna finish with the artist in market question,

but I do have one more question.

As a husband wife team,

how do you integrate the business into your life?

So it's not always all business,

It's Pretty much always all business And you play off each

other so well.

I mean,

you can just see the fun joy you're having in it.

I'm sure not every minute of every day,

it's reality.

But there aren't certain times where you're just like,

we're not talking work like,

or we're only working just this time of day or it

just free flows as it will Kind of free flows.

Yep. As things need to get done,

we try to go up there and get 'em done.

So our,

our workspace is all upstairs at our house,

so it's a little bit separate,

not really working in the dining room,

but we don't eat in here either,

so. Okay.

All right.

Well I thought that would be a curious question because you

know, there are some people who think of going into business

with their significant other and I'm guessing sometimes it works and

sometimes it doesn't.

So, but for you guys,

what you're doing right here is working beautifully.

We we've heard both sides of it.

Yeah. Yeah.

We've heard people that it's worked and others that it,

it's not a good thing for them.

So yeah,

for us it's worked.

But definitely,

yeah, it,

it can be trying at times.

It's a lot going on and we have stresses from our

individual work that needs done and those can roll open to

the business and everything else.

So it can,

it can be challenging but definitely rewarding at the same time,

we do try to maintain,

you know,

some things outside of the business as well,

trying to,

getting more involved in our church,

things like that.

So it's not just work all the time,

try to keep some things,

Try to do some balance one way or another.

Yes, absolutely.

All right.

We've talked about your gorgeous products.

Where can people go and see them?

What's the best place?

Best places to come see us at a market.

And on your website,

do you have a list of the markets that you're at?

You do?

Yes. So uptown common handmade.com

and you can see most of our products on there.

We do try to keep that updated,

but we do run our markets from Square right now,

so the inventory's not tied.

We can talk to any vendor about the positives and negatives

with Shopify versus Square.

We found that Square is really great for in-person markets,

so that's why we do that right now.

But yeah,

visit our website,

leather stuff,

even Mcma,

we're fully customizable.

Beautiful. And the website is Uptown common handmade.com.

Okay. And over to Instagram at the same name if they

wanted to check that out.

Instagram and Facebook just at Uptown Common.

Okay, perfect.

No handmade After it.

Yes. Wonderful.

Well, you guys have been so much fun to talk to.

I've loved hearing your story.

I hope my questions weren't too deep,

but you've really brought up like some really important points about

a journey on the way as a handmade business.

And the fact that you're doing as many shows as you

are clearly makes you professionals even within just like two and

a half,

three years.

Jennifer and Grant,

thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thank You.

So it was great talking to you.

I love this startup story so much because they didn't have

everything figured out before they passed.

Go. As Jennifer said,

it just kind of happened.

They obviously went all in on one person shows as their

sales strategy,

which fits their style and is paying off nicely.

That's what's so great about having your own business.

You can make the decisions and do what you enjoy and

what fits for you.

But still,

I say wow,

150 shows is amazing.

One other thing I wanna point out is how they're keeping

an eye on changing trends and are open to adjusting their

products accordingly.

Wise advice for all of us,

I wanna make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook group

called Gift Biz Breeze.

It's a place where we all gather and are a community

to support each other.

I got a really fun post in there that's my favorite

of the week,

I have to say,

where I invite all of you to share what you're doing

to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week,

to get reaction from other people.

And just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making.

My favorite post every single week.

Without doubt.

Wait, what?

Aren't you part of the group already?

If not,

make sure to jump over to Facebook and search for the

group Gift Biz breeze.

Don't delay.