153 – Knitting a Business Plan with Jodi Pavey of J Pavey Designs

You're listening to gift biz on rapt episode 153.

And next thing you know,

I was like,

why not do an Etsy page?

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Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Today I have the Sure of introducing you to Jody Pavey.

Jody is the owner of J Pavey designs located in the

San Francisco Bay area on her Etsy shop.

You will find handmade,

knitted, fashion,

accessories, and home goods.

Her love of knitting started as a hobby and quickly transitioned

into a business 12 years ago today,

Jodi is a designer and shares her love of the craft

through teaching knitting and crochet.

Welcome to the show,

Jody. Well,

thank you so much,

Sue. It's such an honor to be with you.

I am thrilled that you agreed to be on.

We've talked a little bit randomly online before,

but I've never heard your whole story.

And like I said to you in the pre chat,

I want to find out about it online with everybody else.

Oh, well,

thank you.

I'm glad to share it with you guys today.

As we get started,

you know this cause I know you've been listening for a

while, but I like to start out in a little bit

of a different way,

and that is finding out about you through a motivational candle.

So if you were to share with us a color that

resonates with you and a quote that would make up your

perfect candle,

what would the quote and the color of your motivational candle

be? Well,

I found this question very unique and I had no hesitation

about my color.

I love color,

but my color is blue.

And the reason I picked blue is because every morning we

wake up,

we know the sky is going to be blue.

Regardless if there's a cloud layer or it's raining,

we know above all of that is blue.

So for me to have know that this guy is blue

up there,

I know it's a new day.

I know it's a fresh start.

You can always refocus.

So that's why my color is blue.

Now, as far as a quote relating to that,

I pulled up a quote.

That's actually my quote this year and I'm relating to it

because like I said,

blue to me is like a new day.

So this quote that I pulled up was Joseph Campbell.

And the quote actually States this,

the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek.

And I pull that in related to my color because again,

a new day,

blue is a new color.

We have fears every day that we face.

And if we just dive right in and enter it,

we know that our treasure is there.

I have never heard that quote before.

And I love it.

Oh, when I read this article and I couldn't even tell

you the article I read,

but I found it last year and that quote just popped

to me like neon lights.

And I wrote it down and that's my quote for the

year. So I have that everywhere I go.

I wish I could show you the sad little post-it note

that it's written on.

It goes everywhere.

So a project I'm doing to my calendar to sticking it

on the computer,

but it just,

it resonates with me because we all have fears,

right? And we all just want to push through.

Yeah. And so much of a time,

all of us who are starting businesses,

they're saying reach out of your comfort zone.

And the magic happens outside all of that.

This is kind of a different spin on it,

but it's so true.

If you just keep doing the same things that you're comfortable

with, you never stretch yourself.

You never grow.

And then you never discover how much you could be.

So, and fear stops us all the time.

So you're going to be walking in a bunch of caves

this year,

Jody. That's right.

I am,

I am going full forward.

I got my flashlight in my back pocket.

That's how I'm looking at it.

That's funny.

There you go.

Well, let's take you way back to,

how did everything get started with J Pavey designs?

Well, it was completely unexpected and it was not a plan.

It was not a dream.

I'm going to be very honest.

It really wasn't.

It started,

I had been in the corporate industry for many,

many years and being stressed,

like many corporate people are the stress of having a job

and showing up every day.

And I happened to find the love of my life,

my husband,

and shortly after we were married,

that company that I was with,

I was let go and shortly dissolved right after.

And I never experienced that before my life.

I had never lost a job.

Never been laid off,

never had a company I'd been with demolish come apart.

And my husband was like,

now is your time to do something you enjoy?

And it always been a crafter.

I learned from my grandmother when I was 12 years old,

she taught me very early on to do things with your

heart, to work with your hands.

She was a seamstress and I always fell back on that

on bad times.

And stressful times,

you just pull out a project and work on it.

And my husband who was so supportive and saying,

why don't you do something with that?

At the same time,

a girlfriend of mine asked me to teach at a local

parks and rec center,

the craft of knitting and crochet.

And I'd never really thought about teaching it before,

not in that way in a class setting.

And I thought,

well, what else am I doing?

I'm unemployed right now.

Let's take a look.

Let's see if we can have some fun with it and

Sue it.

Dominoed from there.

I, with class went well.

They asked me to come back.

At the same time I was doing my designs and I

had gotten into this little boutique at a company in the

Bay area.

There's a lot of corporations I had heard about this one

corporation doing a boutique.

So I kind of jumped in and I called and the

woman was like,

we'd love to have you.

But that was the first opportunity I got to sell the

items that I had made and designed myself.

And it was a success.

And those two things happening at the same time,

I was a little hesitant,

but I thought,

well, let's just see what happens.

And it was truly blessed because another city contacted me to

teach in their location.

I found another boutique that I was able to hop into

to sell my items.

And next thing you know,

I was like,

why not do an Etsy page?

So I did an Etsy page.

Oh my gosh.

I just kind of went from there.

And I think the biggest push was that first year I

set up my business,

got my business license,

established, everything,

got my Etsy page,

started doing and selling.

And I went to my tax guy and he was like,

Oh, how sweet you have a little craft beer.

Oh man,

doesn't that burn you?

Oh, Not worse.

He was like,

no, this isn't going to last.

So I just want to prepare you.

Oh, Sue,

that fired me up.

Good. I was like,

I don't move right here.

You just wait.

And I am glad to say where you're 12 right here.

And last year at night,

like, you know,

it takes time to build.

We gotta be patient one day at a time when you're

at a time.

And last year I was so pleased when he opened my

portfolio and went,

Oh, you've really made something with this.

Yes. And wait until next year.

This is what I tell them.

Did you remind him of the comment that he had made?

I looked at my husband because my husband knew he was

like, huh?

I wonder if he remembers it.

I didn't have the heart to go.

Remember when you said this?

So no I didn't.

But the look on his face when he said,

Oh, you've made something of,

this was all I needed.

I was like,

yes, I did.

There's a sense of pride for you.

Right. Jody Really made me feel good.

I mean,

of course years later it takes time.

We have to be patient,

but that's really how it started.

And I think,

like I said,

the light was the tax guy telling me,

Oh, how sweet,

but this won't last.

Well, it's interesting because listening to your story,

it sounds like it worked out so well,

because as soon as you left your job,

not by your choice.

Right. But you could be really down and upset and like

questioning yourself.

But you had support from your husband and everything all fell

into place.

If you reflect back,

were you sharing with a lot of friends that this was

your love and this was your skill?

Or how did they already know that you could slip into

a teaching role?

Right out of the gate,

The girlfriend who asked me to teach her and I would

get together and work on projects because she was an avid

knitter as well.

And that's how she learned about me.

And that's how she approached me with the teaching.

But I want to say this and I can't be alone

in this Sue.

I can't be family.

And friends knew that I love to crochet and knit and

knew that I had some talent there,

but I have to be very honest as much as I

love my family.

They weren't as supportive as I had hoped they would be

when I kind of dove into this,

which I at first was a little discouraging.

Cause you think everyone says,

go to friends and family and have them back you up

and support you and all this.

And I'm not speaking ill of my family.

I love them.

And they love me.

But I think in their mind was like,

Oh, Oh nice.

Oh, that's great.

Because I had been in the corporate world pursuing a totally

different careers.

So they were kind of like,

Oh wow.

Okay. And I didn't get a lot of support in that

aspect. I'm so glad you brought that up.

I mean,

these are two things now,

like the first part where I was going with all of

that is I think by you exposing multiple people to the

fact that this is what you love to do is a

good message for all of our listeners who have a hobby

or a craft right now.

But they don't have it as a business is to make

sure people know just on the side,

because subtly,

without you even knowing that this was going to be something

for the future,

the word was out now.

Yes, you were with your friend and you were doing it

together, but you never know where those opportunities come from.

And I never thought of that before,

until now,

if you have a hobby you love not that you're even

looking now at turning it into a business,

but let people know about it.

You never know what could happen from there.

Don't like,

I would have never thought she was connected with one of

the cities to even get me the job.

And I knew her for quite a while.

You don't know who people are connected to.

It's true.

And then you get into friends and family,

and this is a huge topic with any hobby or craft.

I mean,

it's so frustrating when people will say,

Oh, such a cute business or a hobby business or all

of that,

like it's not a ton of work and effort and all

the business sense that you need right.

To make it successful.

How did you then progress?

So you had your family saying,

Oh, that's nice.

Nothing's going to happen.

And then that message continued on.

What did you do?

What did you say to yourself besides your husband support to

push through Great question.

You're really making me go back.

Those are tough times.

It's tough when you're not getting the support that you were

hoping for.

You know what?

It was the one thing that I had to,

it was the one thing for me doing this designing and

crafting and working with my hands is such a meditation for

me. And knowing that it was a hard time and I

didn't feel like I was getting as much support.

I just kept focusing on it.

I knew that I,

this is my happy place and I love doing this.

And like I said,

I was seeking from other people,

got into that little boutique and the fact that I was

able to sell most of all my items at that one

event, I was getting that encouragement elsewhere from the people who

are buying it.

And I just focused on that.

And again,

when I was kind of still processing the fact that I

was unemployed and I needed to start making some kind of

money, I just kept falling into my comfort place,

my place of meditation,

what made me happy.

And I think that's really what kept me going.

And because you loved it and you had the skill,

it was so natural for you.

Yes. But you had to put yourself out there too.

So are you naturally an outgoing person?

I'm thinking of that very first time that you were teaching

and really now demonstrating.

Cause I could see people being fearful like,

Oh my gosh,

no, one's going to like this class,

I'm going to have to become real in front of my

husband that I can't like all these like imposter syndrome ideas,

right. Could come up.

Maybe they didn't with you.

Are you just naturally outgoing?

And it was this so comfortable for you right at the

start. It was definitely not comfortable.

Now. I definitely feel I'm more of an for sure,

but being in front of a group of people and then

trying to teach them something,

I was nervous.

I mean,

I can remember all the little flops and mistakes I did

in that first workshop.

And it was very nerve wracking because you're,

again, you're coming out of your comfort zone and doing something

completely different.

I knew I was easy with meeting people and saying hi

and starting to talk and have conversations.

But when all eyes are on you and they're trusting that,

you know what you're doing,

I had to build confidence in it.

I didn't have it.

I mean,

it probably took me a year of teaching and being in

front of people to start building any confidence in what I

was doing.

So yeah,

it was totally nerve wracking.

Where are you today in that vein?

Do you still get nervous when you teach?

Where is it now?

It's more of an excitement.

The nervousness,

I think comes from time to time.

I don't think you ever completely get rid of it because

again, you're standing in front of people staring at you,

but I get excited like this past week I started four

new workshops.

I'll start a fifth one this week and I'm just more

pumped up and excited.

I can't wait to get started.

So it has definitely shifted and I would hope so after

all this time.

Okay. Yeah.

That's good to know for all of our listeners too,

because if you wouldn't have started,

you'd never be where you are now.

Exactly. So I guess the messages,

if gift biz listeners,

you're looking at doing something like this,

you've got to put the time in and it's going to

be a little rough at first.

Not only emotionally,

but your presentation,

you have to get into the place where you're in your

groove and you can only do that by doing it.

Not by thinking about it,

not by pre-planning,

but actually getting out there and doing it.

You're exactly right.

And you just have to make yourself do it.

And I know a lot of people are introverts and I

respect them because they're pushing themselves out there too.

But you have to just focus on what you want to

do and yes,

you're going to make mistakes.

I mean,

I embarrassed myself in class a few times just saying the

wrong word or totally explaining stuff and having to go back

and say,

oops, Nope,

I messed up.

This is how it should be and just keep loving what

you're doing.

Cause I think that's what got me through it.

Just loving what I'm doing Human after all.

I mean,

you're just being friendly and personable and sharing the class tips

and all of that.

Okay. So you're doing two different things at the same time.

I mean,

granted they're in the same field,

but you're doing the teaching and designing and then you're also

making products to sell.

And I want to get into the whole at T site

in a second,

but I'm curious.

Do you ever see a challenge because they're similar,

but they are different paths.

Yeah. The challenge is balancing everything.

Like I said,

the teaching now comes pretty naturally that I'm doing it year

round and the designing is really what I love.

That's my real passion to sit and sketch something out and

then bring it to life.

There is a balance.

You do have to balance the two.

We have to prioritize the two something.

I think I'm still trying to work on now because having

an se page or even having a website,

you have to put a lot of time in.

You got to do the marketing for that as well.

And so there is challenges.

I think I pretty much got it to a system and

it's just always perfecting the system when I design,

when I create,

when I focus on my website,

when I on promoting and selling my items.

And then when I teach and then of course,

there's that whole building process of getting people to come to

your class and enjoy the class.

And then you've got class projects you'd have to do so

it is a juggling act.

I think I have a system down.

Do you break your days up that,

so there's some type of a structure that you try as

much as you can to follow up.

Yes. So I really try to set time aside and my

evenings are when I can relax.

And when I design more and I think it just comes

by feeling what feels right to you in the mornings,

it's all about outlining the workshops,

doing whatever promoting I need to do to get students to

come to my classes in the evenings.

When things have kind of settled down to the day,

I can then start designing and I can sit back and

actually start knitting or crocheting and making my piece come to

life. So I kind of do it on how my,

I guess,

I don't know if you want to call it an emotional

day flow,

you're kind of a get up and go,

let's get some stuff done and then you can relax and

kind of let your passion come out and create.

Cause I can't create when it's all hustle and bustle all

the time.

Right. So it sounds like you're really in sync with in

the morning.

Do you know it's more of the brain power and structure

and promotion.

And then as the day goes on,

then the nighttime is more of the creative zone.

And so you've matched what you're doing with how you personally

function within your body and what skills rise up to the

surface at any time during the day,

I guess is the word.

Yeah, that was some of it pretty good.

Now I haven't gotten better at blocking out times of day

and that's just come with years trying to figure this out.

But again,

my morning,

like you said,

business is not just making the product.

It's all the marketing,

this got to go in it,

all the phone calls and emails and all the accounting stuff

that I hate.

So I do start blocking times,

but I do follow my feel through the day when I

don't have to do all the hustle,

bustle, email,

contact stuff,

Instagramming stuff.

Then I can sit back and disconnect and actually really design.

Okay. Question on you're designing.

Are you designing then for your classes?

Are you designing for the products you make or do you

sell your data?

Well, it was funny.

You asked when I first started this,

I was like,

how am I going to teach and design and do all

this at the same time?

And that's going to take me a process.

The designing is very separate from the teaching because I teach

so many classes that I can't design something for every class

that was just foolish for me to even think that I

could have.

So what I really do focus because I want my teaching

to be a community.

I want people to know what's out there.

It's not about me.

It's about what is out there.

So I bring in patterns from other designers.

I find catalog patterns that they may enjoy.

There's no way I can design for every class.

Let's be realistic.

I couldn't do it.

So I went out and use what's out there because there's

so much talent out there.

So I will incorporate that into my classes.

Now, when I start designing for the things that I sell,

I want people to know,

this is my thought process.

This is me creating it.

And it is separate.

And sometimes the students always want me to teach them some

of the things that I have made.

And it depends on the group.

If the group is really into it,

then of course I will.

But otherwise it is two separate things.

Cause it's just made it easier for me to pull something

beautiful out of a magazine and say,

why don't we do this as a challenge for our class

project? And then I can keep all my designing at my

own pace.

And I don't have to feel rushed to get it done

in time for our class.

Excellent Description.

And I really like how you're very focused.

I mean,

you have the design,

you had such a clear answer and obviously you've thought all

this through and how it's going to work best for you,

which is perfect.

And I think as creators,

a lot of us have trouble with that because you can

do so many different types of things.

So I think if you're in this situation,

roll this back and listen to what Jody said.

She was very succinct and very clear with how she's presenting

her product to market what she's doing in classes,

et cetera.

And you're right.

You don't want to be all it's about Jody.

Right? Exactly.

So do you at all sell your designs?

Well, that is something I'm so glad you brought that up.

I am going to be doing that this year.

I was really been pushed for the last couple of years.

Is this a cave you're going to enter?

This is a new cave.

It is a new game before we listened to them.

This new cave that Jody is going to be entering into.

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But it had been asked for To sell.

I mean,

when I'm at these boutiques,

some people come up and they're knitters and crochet.

There's just like,

do you sell this pattern?

And I was like,

no, I don't.

And after so much time,

I thought,

well finally I should.

And then I got some nudge from some other entrepreneurs I

knew. And so yes,

my patterns,

I have several written,

I'm going to start releasing them.

And I finally feel,

I guess,

competent, cause I wasn't so sure certain about it.

It's one thing to make it and someone feel it and

touch it and wear it and like it.

And then to know that someone's like,

yes, I want to make that.

I want to do what you just did is kind of

definitely a cave I'm entering into.

So I am excited about that.

And in addition to that,

I'm finally getting into making videos,

YouTube videos,

which is another dog.

Oh good for you.

Oh my gosh.

That's awesome.

I mean,

I finally come out of my cell.

So I'm introducing that to some workshops that I'm doing because

I kind of want them to go in critique it,

view it,

and then those will get released too.

So these are a couple of caves I'm entering in this

year. Good.

And You just claimed it.

It's now out to the world.

Jodi. I know last year I was like,

there's that saying?

Some people say,

well, if you say it,

you probably won't do it.

And then you hear the opposite.

What if you don't say it,

you will do it.

It's like this controversy of,

do you say it or do you not say it to

people? I said,

if I say it,

then I feel an obligation to do it.

So for me,

I have to put it out there.

So last year I started putting it out there and telling

my students.

And so I was like,

they're going to call me on it.

They're going to call me on it.

So I got to do it.

So are we,

you just put it out there in a big way.

So it's happening.

I know I got to stick with it now,

but I think it works in that way,

but I've heard both ways say it and not say it,

but if I put it out there,

I think for me it works that yeah,

I got to do it.

There you go.

Let's talk a little bit about Etsy for somebody who is

listening now,

who is just starting.

So they don't have a website presence yet.

Take us through setting up a shop.

And what you feel in terms of managing an Etsy store.

Etsy has changed a lot when I joined it.

Like what 12 years ago is very different than it is

today. So it's definitely an easy process to set up.

I would say,

it's an easy way.

It's not expensive.

You're paying for each little post that you put,

you pay it for a very small percentage of what you

sell. They make it very straightforward and easy in that aspect.

Now the problem is marketing yourself on Etsy has gotten more

challenging because there's so many more people on that site now

that you really have to stay current on what they're changing,

what they're doing.

Be uploading quite frequently.

I mean,

it's a job in itself with Etsy and they do offer

a lot of tips,

a lot of information,

but you gotta make the time to go through it to

be successful.

And it's kind of like your tags.

You always hear about tags.

Like in every aspect of business,

tagging on Etsy is really important.

I will be honest.

It is a process,

but I think it's a great way to get started.

But I think you have to then back it up outside

of that,

you can't just rely on Etsy to sell your product.

You have to get that out there on other social media.

You have to go to those craft events.

You have to tell your friends,

you have to get the word out there that you even

have an Etsy page.

So as he doesn't do it all for you,

it's a lot of them.

And do you then own the emails of your customers on

Etsy? Yes.

So once they have bought from you,

as he has a great system,

they provide you all that information.

Cause then it gives you that opportunity to communicate with your

clients. So yes,

that's yours.

You can take those emails at that point.

They have personally bought from you.

So that's partly how I've grown a lot of my customer

list as well.

So yes,

you can utilize that.

Okay. And then do you rank higher?

Not just because of the tags or the labels,

but do you get more exposure if you continually are adding

to your site,

does that make you a more favorable shop to show up

versus another?

Yes. You got to kind of be active.

You kind of always got to put your presence out there

and your tags are real important with Etsy and constantly updating

them. So if you get what I do and there's lots

of tips on Etsy for doing this is see,

who keeps popping up regularly.

When you pull up something,

when you search something,

see who first comes up now that can frequently change,

but it gives you an idea of maybe some tag ideas

or photo ideas learn from those that are really exposed.

Cause then they'll do articles on these people.

They'll send you information on what they're doing.

People are very open about sharing what works for them.

You just have to take the time to look but posting

a lot and constantly having your items shown is a big

tip. Well,

the thing with Etsy,

it's a little bit similar to Amazon in the fact that

when people are on Etsy searching,

they've already got their wallet out.

People are coming in with that mentality,

they're looking a present or something they want for themselves or

whatever it is and they're ready to buy.

Yeah. And that's what makes it easy for people.

It used to just be PayPal,

but now you can use your credit card to purchase.

So as he's really changed in that sense,

it makes it really easy.

Cause you're right.

People know if they go to Etsy,

they're going to find something and they're going to buy.

Right. Okay.

So Jodi,

what really attracted me in the very beginning when I didn't

know you from anybody was your Instagram site.

Oh, it's beautiful.

So I'd like to go that direction now and talk social

media a little bit.

Let's start with what platforms you really gravitate to and why

you chose the platforms you have.

Well first,

thank you very much for the compliment.

It's always nice to hear you're doing something right.

So I appreciate that.

But the social media is I use focus is Instagram and

Facebook. Those are my two.

I like Instagram because in a lot of ways it makes

it really easy for us to just upload pictures and make

comments. But my Instagram page has taken its path.

Let me just say that you constantly have to kind of

figure it out,

play it out,

see what works.

And I think what really worked for me is I got

a photographer now sometimes.

I mean,

I did photography way back as a hobby.

So I have some,

a little bit of skills and doing some pictures that I

do. But I invested in working with a photographer and she

is what helped change my Instagram.

And I know for a lot of people and for me,

it was hard because what money do I have to hire

a photographer?

I found someone who was also learning photography and was willing

to make a little money,

what I could pay her.

And we kind of worked together kind of collaborated.

I'm helping her,

she's helping me.

And that was honestly the big shift that I made the

last two years with my Instagram is actually really working with

someone and not just doing it myself.

And are you working with the same person now that you've

been working with since you started?

Yes, I am because she's grown exponentially and we've grown together

and the great thing is we still work together and we'll

still help each other out cause we're still growing and we're

still learning.

So yes,

I still work with her and she's awesome.

I didn't know that.

I thought you were doing your own photos.

Tell us how it works.

That you're working together.

I don't even remember how exactly we met,

but I knew she was into photography.

I had seen a lot of her stuff cause she had

posted some things and I just approached her.

And I said,

you know,

I don't know where you are in your photography,

but I'm looking for someone who can help me.

And she didn't do any kind of photography like this,

no product photography at all.

And so it was really like,

what can we experiment together and see if this'll work?

Cause I'm happy for you to put this on your portfolio,

if this would help you in future jobs.

And it would definitely help me in getting more photos done

faster than if I did it myself.

And that's how we started working together.

And we just kind of negotiated because I didn't want to,

honestly I didn't want her to do it for free.

I knew she was spending a lot of time cause it's

a lot of process doing editing,

but we really worked out a good deal that both of

us could swing and we didn't feel pressure.

And we just really collaborate in the sense that I really

have to outline what I and what I'm looking for.

So we do collaborate in the sense that I'm like,

this is what I need.

I need my pictures to look like this.

I need to make it to look like a magazine.

I have to kind of guide her in what I expect.

And then she just works the camera lens and we work

it together.

So we're getting exactly what I'm hoping to get out of

it because again,

she was in a retail photographer when she started with me.

The thing that's so great about that collaboration is it's going

to be beneficial for both of you.

So great idea.

You guys,

when you are in chamber events or you're looking for a

photographer like Jody is that's where to go.

If you can do something that is mutually beneficial,

fabulous. How often do you do photo shoot?

What's behind all of that?

Well, I do it on a couple of different things if

I have a promotion going on.

So if I know I'm about to do a particular boutique

event and depending on what time of the year it falls,

let's say it's a holiday.

The holidays are approaching.

I get with her in the summer and we do Christmas

pictures, Thanksgiving pictures.

So basically the product we'll have something with the holiday tied

to it.

So I always try to plan ahead.

You have to that way,

you get the pictures in time to start promoting.

If it's a workshop or some kind of class event that

I'm doing,

I will plan to get with her so that we do

products specifically for that workshop or that class event.

So you do have to kind of think ahead,

you have to plan ahead.

And so I collaborate with her anywhere from three to four

times a year,

and it's usually like a full day event.

And this last one,

we did a shot with her through the holidays,

but it wasn't a holiday a bit.

It was funny because Christmas is all around us and I'm

like, we can't go anywhere with a Christmas tree.

We had to make sure all the decorations were not in

the pictures wherever we went because I needed them for the

winter season.

Right. So that was actually a two day event because this

was the first time we went on a location.

We picked an outdoor place.

Cause I was hoping to get the feel like,

okay, it's cold outside and this is what you would be

wearing. And that ended up being like a two day event

with us,

Which behind there is really pre-planning think of what you're going

to need four or six months out,

which necessitates that you have a promotion or marketing plan right

in place,

because you would need to know that.

But then the whole thing sounds like it gets streamlined and

becomes much easier because you know exactly what you're looking for.

Yeah. And it's funny,

you have to think of all those little details.

Like where would I go if I'm wanting to do a

summer spring Shaw,

there's a lot of pause and planning and that's just so

key. You buy those big wall calendars.

Sure. You probably use Wednesday and you just kind of outline,

okay. I know in March I'm going to do this.

So then in January I better have this plan.

It's a lot of planning ahead and it doesn't always work.

I've done a lot of last minute things too.

Well then it's going to come up from time to time.

Right? And so what have you seen with your Instagram account?

More interaction I have built,

this is probably the cool thing.

It's like,

yes, I'm going on to show my items and hopefully bring

people to my Etsy page to buy.

But it's more,

it's become this totally different room.

It's like I meet people.

I'm now collaborating with different people on different things.

It's a community.

I'm you start getting,

you hear that authentic followers.

It is so true.

It Is so true.

You really start connecting with people.

And as a result of,

once you start connecting with them,

in that sense,

it has led to sales,

but you go out there just being yourself,

providing what you can really connecting.

Cause I think what I've learned is the key is you

need to comment.

You need to follow up with comments.

When people make comments on your photo,

it's also another job doing your social media,

Right? We're going to get to that in a second.

But for our listeners,

I want you guys to go to J Pavey designs on

Instagram and take a look at her feed.

You're going to love it,

but don't take too much time there.

Cause you'll get off of your job because you could sit

here forever and look at it.

So do you incorporate then also into your day as we

were talking earlier,

like you have the morning for your promotional type things and

getting your classes outlined and all of that,

do you have a certain time of day then that you

fit into going back and interacting with people?

Oh, these pumpkins are beautiful.

I'm getting lost.

I'm not and attention to this interview anymore.

See what happens Thanksgiving?

Yes. Rolling down there.

Just so I told you,

you guys,

you can set a timer five minutes,

that's it.

At least during the work day,

you can go back to it at night.

So how do you incorporate then interacting and developing these relationships

on Instagram specifically?

You do have to take a little time.

I don't spend a great deal.

I made me 10,

15 minutes and I make comments.

I think the key is when you,

I mean,

even though you're on there promoting and showing your stuff,

you're also on there looking like you said,

it's a rabbit hole,

but when you do,

you need to go in and let these people know when

you like something of theirs or appreciate their comment tied to

the picture.

I try to make myself do limited.

Cause like you said,

it could be an all day thing and take 10,

15 minutes and find those pictures that I like or the

people I'm following in comment.

Just say,

I really like this.

I like how you styled this.

Oh no.

I didn't think I need to add this into my house

now that I've seen this.

And just little comments,

I think go a long way because it helps them because

then they know that you're receiving what they're putting out there,

but it also allows them to go,

Oh, well maybe who is this?

That's taking me out.

And so it kind of works both ways,

but yeah,

just taking short amount of time because it can be a

day sucker.

Okay. And seriously,

I'm going to put this down because I'm listening to you

and I'm also looking at the plant covers.

You have,

okay. I'm putting this down.

We're doing an interview now.

Definitely for the Instagram.

So everybody really go check out the account.

It's gorgeous.

Okay. And Facebook then let's talk about that.

Just a tad.

So Facebook,

I thought initially I would do it in that same aspect

with Instagram is more about my products,

but my Facebook has really become about my classes.

So I think that's another,

and I don't know if I'm doing this right or wrong

Sue, but this is kind of how it fell out.

Instagram focuses more on my designs and the products that I'm

out there promoting.

Whereas Facebook has now become my page for my teaching classes.

So I promote stuff about the classes I show off students

work on my Facebook page.

They can come there for latest information that's happening with my

classes or workshop events.

So that's kind of a separation that I put into play

there. Instagram for designs,

Facebook for classes.

I don't know if that's right or wrong,

but it's working.

And my students really liked that they can go on Facebook

and go,

Oh, this is happening in the next class.

I'm so glad you posted that in probation.

Or they can then make comments and they can kind of

give me feedback on the class.

I really love doing this.

Or I didn't like doing this or I have a question

about that.

So that's what Facebook has come to me for.

That's what I've kind of had Facebook be for me.

Yeah. I know you question,

whether it's working,

if you're seeing the results it's working.

And again,

just like we were talking about before the two businesses and

what you're doing,

same thing.

I mean,

this must be your mind because you have clear intent for

the different platforms you're on and why you're on them and

the thing that's so great about that.

And I'm really talking to listeners more than you Jody,

but we're having this conversation is that then someone comes to

your Instagram account.

They're not going to see the classes too and get all

confused. They know what they're going to get on Instagram.

The beautiful products set against a nice background,

interesting angles,

that type of thing.

It doesn't get mixed up.

The other thought I'm having about Facebook is that so perfect

when you're doing classes because that's so shareable.

If you take a picture of someone in a class or

they've produced something,

they're going to want to share it with their friends.

It sounds to me like you're using the platforms.

Perfect. Okay,

good. Could you just trial and error?

Is this working?

Is this not working?

Should I,

should I not?

And you know what,

if you're seeing the results,

then it's right.

I'm not a contender to,

there's only one way to use a platform it's based on

if the results are working for you because everyone's community is

a little different too.

Exactly. Totally agree.

So Let's move on now and talk a little bit more

about customer service.

How do you retain students for your class or get people

coming back to purchase more of your products?

What types of strategies do you have in place for that?

Well, I have a couple and again,

this is all trial and error to seeing what works.

But over the years,

one I don't do.

I know people like,

Oh, send the emails,

follow up with emails.

I don't do a lot because people don't like to be

bombarded. They get enough emails.

And if they're getting too many from you,

they will unsubscribe when it's my customers and my customers that

have come from my Etsy or any craft event that I've

been at,

I always follow up.

So I do a little thing.

And again,

you got to feel it out,

see what works,

but I always follow up to make sure they received their

package and that they're happy.

I always ask for feedback because the one thing I even

put on my Etsy page,

I want you to be satisfied.

If you receive something that I've made and you've decided it

doesn't work for you,

there's no point in you throwing it in a drawer and

never wearing it.

I'm a big advocate for them.

Like if you want it,

I hope you'll wear it.

I hope you're aware it out,

but you want to follow up and make sure that they're

happy. I've done that.

I do do promotions from time to time,

especially around certain holiday events or a sell event that I

have. So they'll get an email from me on that.

But again,

I try not to do too much.

And that's what my customers,

another thing with Etsy customers is following up right away.

If they put in an order,

get it out there.

When I've been at craft events and people will do custom

orders with me,

I give them a date and time to expect it.

And if that changes,

communicate with them right away,

let them know I'm a little delayed in completing this project.

Here's my new deadline.

Are you okay with that?

And because I think being very honest with your customer on

a product that you're making and delivering,

they're fine with that.

And I've never had anyone go we'll know if you don't

have to delay,

I'm not going to take it.

I've never had that happen.

I've just said,

Hey, this is the deal I've had to push back for

a week.

But I think that constant communicating,

letting them know what goes on sales or holiday events or

boutique events that I'm doing.

It keeps them engaged with the teaching.

I have found that I have to be a little bit

more active because people start a hobby or a craft that

they enjoy.

And then they get discouraged.

They're like,

I'm stuck on this stitch that you taught me.

And I just put it aside.

They get discouraged and you want to encourage them more.

So I think I do more active emailing and following up

with my students because we all,

when we're learning something new,

we can get distracted.

And if someone's not encouraging you,

you're going to stop doing it.

Right. So I have a lot more interaction with my students

in that sense,

because it keeps them encouraged to keep doing their product or

doing their craft.

And if they do,

then they want to keep coming to my class.

So there's a little bit more work,

I think,

with the students,

because the encouragement aspect and with the customers,

it's more of just reassuring that they're happy with what they've

received. Perfect.

And are you seeing a lot of repeat customers from class

to Class?

I'm so happy,

but again,

it's that follow-up,

that's bringing them back and same with the customers when I

send them like,

Hey, I'm having a sale or this promo or Hey,

like Valentine's is coming up.

That will draw them back to.

But yes I do.

As long as you're staying connected,

I see them come back And that friendships developed within the

students of the class too.

So they're like,

Hey, I'm going to do this class.

Are you going to do this class?

Yes. I mean,

perfect thing.

I had a Thursday night class that started one woman was

interested and she drug both her sisters and two of her

girlfriends to the class.

Oh. So fun.

That's perfect.

And by nature you could see how that would happen Easily.

Oh yeah.

Cause now they have a little community to get together after

the class and motivate each other to keep doing what they're

enjoying. Perfect.

All right.

So Let's move on for just a few more things.

Before we wrap up here,

we've talked about how you run your days and how you

stay productive.

Are there any tools that you rely on to make sure

that My planner as simple it as is,

I still like to write loading things on the computer helps

me to some degree,

but I'm still an old fashioned whiter.

I like to have my pencils out and writes.

I have a planner that I carry with me all the

time and anytime there's thoughts of process or what I should

be doing through the day,

I have it available.

And that's as simple as whatever notebook you find somewhere,

either software you use or apps that I use Instagram I

use plantarly.

I think that's solely what I use for Instagram.

I can load up all my pictures.

I can put my comments and descriptions in there ahead of

time schedule those.

And that's a big platform that I use Facebook,

obviously I'm using now is Facebook live to get some word

out there?

Honestly, I think that's really about it.

That planner that keeps me organized plantarly that lets me do

Instagram easily.

And then of course,

Google docs is a big thing for me to tell.

I'm not too techie.

I guess I'm pretty simple,

But you know what?

I'm more and more people all are talking about going back

to physical planners versus the online.

There's just something about it that I think keeps us actually

more on schedule.

I mean,

it's great to have your calendar that you can pull up

on your phone real quick,

but when you actually get down to the planning,

lots of people and maybe it's the maker community,

I'm not sure but want that tactical hands-on type thing.

Yeah. Because you can see it and you can see it

all at once.

Yeah. Whereas on the computer,

I feel like you're seeing bits and pieces of what you've

logged into.

Agreed. I don't know.

I'm simple and simple works.

Listen. As long as it gets the result,

then it's the right thing.

Right? Exactly.

And so what do you do in terms of keeping up

with the industry?

Gosh, that's a nonstop process thing.

So for me,

the fashion industry,

there's a couple of platforms I follow Vogue is very big.

There's a lot of knitting organizations that are out there that

I follow magazine subscriptions that I do to stay current on

a lot of the teaching aspects.

I do a teaching workshop each year that I attend.

I go to,

to pick up on a new skill or a new technique

because someone's always creating some new way or some new stitch

or some new process of crafting.

So once a year,

I do that for me to learn and stay on top.

For me,

Bogue has always been the big one,

but there's others out there as well.

And I'm talking about watching fashion shows because if you haven't

noticed Sue,

the knitting and crochet is big and fashion as well.

People don't realize that it's on the runway.

It's still on the runway today.

So I'm always watching that.

I have so many subscriptions of magazines that I do view

they don't get pushed aside.

They get viewed pages,

get torn out.

And I think that's my biggest thing.

And really Instagram is a big one on that following fashion

on Instagram,

too, getting design ideas,

concept ideas.

I love that you keep up with everything and it's probably

energizing to you too,

to be around people who love it and are at your

heightened skill level too.

So when you go to the industry events,

new stitches,

all of that,

I'm guessing it reenergizes you all over again every year.

Oh yeah.

I go every year and it does.

And to know that there are other designers out there that

are willing to share their skills is just motivating.

Next month is one of the events I'm going to,

I'm really excited about going.

I'm getting fired up about that.

So yeah,

it is motivating.

It's really,

it really gets you enthusiastic and encouraged.

Yeah. Well I'm just back from creative aviation,

which is for hobbyists and crafters.

And there are so many yarn brands that are there and

just looking at these beautiful things that they're making is crazy.

I know.

Amazing. Isn't it?

It is amazing.

And one of the podcasts guests I had on way back

London, Kay,

who's a yarn bomber.

Oh yes.

Now he has her own line of yarn.

Awesome. Yes.

Yeah. I didn't see her at the show,

but I was super busy.

I didn't have a lot of time to go scoping around,

but just all these extensions within an industry that you might

not even think of.

Right. Being a yarn bomber,

like all of it kind of all comes together.

I know it's amazing.

The talent out there.

I know if I had a few more minutes,

I would be an a,

if I was in your area,

I would be in your classes.

How about that?

Okay, Jody,

I'm going to invite you now to dare to dream.

I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

This would be your dream or your goal or a cave

of almost unreachable depths.

I'll say that you'd wish to obtain.

So something that you are looking to really accomplish in the

future, please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What is inside your box?

Oh my gosh.

I love this concept and I don't feel guilty about dreaming

right now because how you presented them,

nor should you.

I would love the S this is a big dream.

If people are coming to me and I have had this

happen twice with two people,

but I mean,

on a bigger scale,

say, I want you to design something for me.

Can you see it on,

Oh, what's that fashion show?

There's a fashion design show.

And then these actors come to those designers and say,

I want you to make this dress for the Oscar.

That's my dream is to have people come to me and

want something specifically for them and want me to make it

for them As someone who is an influencer is really what

you're saying.

Right. So that there could be some fun visibility just cause

it's an ego thing.

It's great.

Right? Yeah.

We want to put it out there because we want it

to happen.

I think it would be a very scary,

scary thing,

but it would be so cool to have that honor and

that opportunity and then maybe even have my own passion show

one day I'm dreaming.

Right. I could see that.

Yeah. And these lovely people wearing my items and walking it

out and then I get to walk out after I go.

Yeah. Yeah.

I did that.

Who, who is that behind those designs.

Right. And then you get to go down the runway and

maybe receive an award because your designs are so beautiful.

I'm with you when that happens.

Can I con yes.

You weren't Invited front row seat.

All right,

Lovely. I'm there.

How can our listeners get in touch with you?

See everything you're doing.

This is your time to direct them into seeing everything about

Jay Pavey designs.

Well, you can definitely Google JPB designs and I'll pop up

again. I'm on Instagram.

So I'd love for you to come by and just say

hi Facebook for sure.

And then I have a blog@jpbdesignsdotblogspot.com.

So I'm a blogger.

So if you're just interested in what fashion or being a

knitter or a crochet,

or is about,

you can find my blog that way.

And I would love for you to just send me a

message and just say,

hi, Beautiful,

perfect. And as always,

there'll be a show notes page with all the links so

that you'll be able to find Jody in that way.

But seriously,

this is your assignment gift biz listeners.

You have to go to her Instagram page and understand what

we're talking about in terms of the vibe and the photos.

And she pretty much laid out how she does it.

Not that you're going to copy exactly her style.

You're going to relate it to your product because I think

for many people still Instagram is kind of a questionable and

unknown and you've laid out so well,

Jody. So that's the assignment for all of us today to

go ahead and look at Jody's and make some adjustments in

our own,

if necessary with your own vibe and your own style and

obviously your own product as well,

Jody, so much fun.

I told you in the pre-chat that I didn't want to

know a lot about the business.

Other than that,

we had connected via Instagram,

of course.

And your story is so rich.

You're a real model for how to do business,

right? Because you have a very clear cut plan and reasoning

behind everything that you do.

And so gift as listeners.

I want you to take that too and think about that

and how you can apply it to your business.

Thank you so much for being here,

Jody, and much success to you.

I cannot wait to see you on the runway and may

your candle always burn bright.

So you're awesome.

And thank you for what you do because without you putting

this out there,

other crafters and makers,

we need a path.

We need a guideline and you provide that with what you

do. So keep doing what you're doing.

I love it.

All right.

I will.

Thanks Jody.

Thank you for the kind words.

Thank you.

This episode is all wrapped up,

but your gift vis journey continues.

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your passion into a profitable business.

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Addressing your specific challenges.

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