318 – Your Relationship with Money. Take a Seat on the Couch with Connie Vanderzanden

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access. Right now,

moving into the topic of today's show.

I have to say,

I have the utmost respect for you.

If you love numbers,

as our guest would say,

if it's in your human design,

but my hunch is your more like me and understand that

numbers are a necessary part of running your business,

but you'd much rather be creating or talking with customers.

You're going to hear a down-home honest girl,

chat all about things.

Financial that will help you feel a little bit more friendly

towards your budget.

Today. We're going to be chatting with Connie Vander.

Zanden Connie is a cashflow and business mentor.

And even with her 35 plus years of accounting experience,

it didn't prepare her for the monster of a business.

She created,

it had $50,000

in debt and she didn't pay herself for six years.

So what did she do?

Connie crafted a solution with an easy system that worked to

turn things around.

Then she started sharing it with others.

Now she works one-on-one with women entrepreneurs blending the how to,

with the mindset to create a healthy,

long lasting relationship with money.

It's not about what your top line revenue is.

It's what you do with it.

That matters while a budget is the first step.

You also have to look at what your natural style is

with money and your subconscious beliefs.

That way you can call those things out in the budget

before they sidetrack your efforts.

Tiny is a true Oregonian,

born and raised in the Pacific Northwest,

where she spends time with her husband of 35 years.

And they're for baby.

All right,

you already have me up for a baby Connie.

Welcome to the gift biz on rapt podcast.

Thanks you.

I am so excited to be here,

but yes,

my fur baby is just enough for us.

Love it.

Love it.

What kind?

He or she it's,

she she's a black Lab mix with the Weimer Amer and

German short hair.

So she's got that the lab,

ears and attention to this playfulness and the winery and her

body though.

So it's kind of a sleek body.

And then the German short hair is like,

she loves squirrels and balls.

Absolutely love that.

And all our life we've always had black dogs too.

I've just gravitated to the black guys for some reason.

I don't know if they're so,

so super cute.

At one point we were thinking of getting another dog and

my kids wanted white and I'm like,

Nope, we're not having two different colors of fur in the

house. It's one or the other only.

I like that.

Yes. Yeah.

One color is enough for me to handle,

but anyway,

let's do,

what's become a tradition here and that is,

have you share a different side of yourself by way of

a motivational candle.

So if you were to describe a candle that would be

made just for you,

Connie, what color would it be and what would be a

quote on your candle?

Yeah, so I've always got back to what my first life

coach and I worked on.

So when I was reached burnout,

I reached out to a life coach and the work we

did, the phrase came,

the calm that cradles the universe.

And I was like,

it was hard to really dive into that piece,

but that's,

I think what the candle would be called.

I think it's like you would look at it and you

would like,

just feel into the calm of whatever's chaos of whatever storm

is around you and then just breathe.

And there wasn't a full saying around it.

It's just,

I felt that that's what the candle wanted to be called

today. I love it.

And boy,

we all need your candle.

And my calm,

like when I need to reset is going out into the

Pacific Northwest,

into the forest where there's lots of pine Douglas first.

So it would be dark forest green.

And the key piece would be getting that first smell because

that forest smell can be very clingy and overwhelming in some

candles. So I have to work really well with the smell

ologist to get that.

But I think there would also be some frankincense are clove

and cinnamon and probably some spearmint to round out that first

smell. Beautiful.

That would be a candle I would buy for sure.

You know,

and there's always that piece in calming of getting into nature.

We forget that often,

so, okay.

I cannot even start this conversation without understanding more about this

business. They got you so heavily in debt.

Like we can not just pass over that.

You've got to tell us the story.

The story was,

I got married at 19 and this is kind of a

little longer story,

but at 19 I just thought I wanted to be married

and eventually have kids.

So I chose a career that was really easy for me.

And so math had always been easy for me in school.

And my math teacher was very unhappy with me,

but I decided to go into bookkeeping and accounting.

I think he thought I was going to be a teacher,

which is funny because that's what I do now.

So I went into bookkeeping,

accounting, and that's what my mom did.

And it was just going to be short-term.

We were going to have kids and I had some infertility

issues five years later.

And the problem was,

is I never changed the career.

So we changed our dream or life dream.

And I just continued into accounting and then founded a business

of 19 years.

And I was like,

wait a minute.

I got to be 52.

And I was like,

wait a minute.

I do not like this.

How does that even happen?

Right. How do those numbers creep up?

And we don't even realize it both in our age,

but then also in our debt.

I don't know.

I don't get that.

Well, I think it's because in the hustle phase,

like a lot of times I work with business owners that

are so much in the hustle phase of growth.

So this didn't happen until I decided to grow my business,

to expand what I was doing.

And so I've been in business seven years before that happened

and had this big dream.

And the problem was I didn't create any plan.

I just dove straight into it.

And I drove straight into expenses and I created expenses in

an office and all the things that went with it based

on what I thought other people wanted.

And I still continued to ignore the numbers.

And I would like only pay attention to money.

Like at one o'clock at night,

1:00 AM in the morning,

actually, because that's the only space I had that I wasn't

running the business or managing the team or doing client calls

or anything.

It was very minimal paying attention to what was going on

and the debt slowly and slowly increased until I hit a

rock bottom moment.

And I was like,

wow, I can't do this.

I think that the moment was when I pushed a W2

across the table where my husband had to see it to

our financial advisor and they were like,

that's your W2?

I was like,

yeah, that's my W2.

And I had been doing some figures for my business for

a long time,

but nothing was coming down to me.

Everything was going out based on occupancy and to the team

and everything else.

But I wasn't feeding myself.

I wasn't feeding my family and I had debt on the

family and on the business and it just couldn't continue that

way. So I had to have a moment where I had

to pause and breathe and figure out what else to do

next. And this happens all the time in businesses.

We just get so busy in that hustle.

We don't pay attention to what else is going on.

Well, it's really true.

And I appreciate you sharing this with us because someone who

is a number of efficient natto to have that happen to

you, I think it helps other people who might be listening,

who are in a similar situation,

get the fact that it's not about them and their lack

of whatever the story is that they're trying to tell themself.

Right? I see.

So often people who are starting their businesses,

they're doing one of a few things.

First, they're saying,

well, I have X amount of money and I'm going to

start that way,

but they're like,

but I'm going to grow so slow.

So there's that challenge.

And then we have people who will say,

well, I'm going to go and get it,

take out a loan because then I'll have money.

And then they run through their loan without really having produced

anything that can start paying it back.

So they get stuck there.

Or there's the whole saying you have to spend money to

make money.

So they take savings and keep spending and keep spending and

keep spending because they think the real turn is right around

the corner.

And then it leads into $50,000

worth of debt.

Like there's so many ways you can get there.

And I'm also going to say that I think $5,000

of debt for some people is way,

way, way too much.

50,000 is for some people,

way, way,

way too much.

Everyone is different.

So you've got to take all the conversation.

I think in what we're going to talk about,

Connie, I have no idea where we're going to get into,

but it's very personal,

I think.

Would you agree?

Yeah, it is.

Everyone has a different set point for their numbers and yeah,

5,000 can be just excruciating for one person.

50,000 to me was the most heaviest thing I could carry

and the things I had to learn to be okay with

that and to like learn how to love and understand where

my debt came from and love and understand the person that

created that.

Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah, that was the interesting piece.

Was there was no blaming,

but that person just didn't know enough at that time.

But now that I do know that I can look back

and give them compassion,

just like our younger self,

when we do inner child work,

is that understanding and giving love to that person because they

didn't know anything.

It took a while to get to this point where I

could talk about it today.

Right. But for you,

we hear this often in the entrepreneurial world,

don't we is,

you've created a solution that now you can share forward to

for others.

So bring us to the hero.

Part of your story with your first business,

how did you get out of debt or just like the

summary story of what happened with that and what led you

to where you are today?

First, my coach at the time gave me a book called

profit first by Mike and was that light bulb moment.

Everyone's going to have a thing that happens in their businesses

like, Oh,

and that was it.

And so I started implementing it and then I saw all

the places where I hit roadblocks.

I stole from the accounts,

I didn't follow the plan.

So I found out that this wasn't the end all solution.

There was some good pieces in it,

but it wasn't the end all solution.

So I had to like take a moment and pause and

think, okay,

what's going on?

And I had to explore my own money habits,

a little further realized I was a spender.

I get a lot of pleasure from that.

And that as a risk taker,

as an entrepreneur,

I can't create money.

As I'm jumping off the cliff,

I have to create some stability.

That's such a scary Image,

Right? Jump off the cliff.

So the combination of the two is what happened.

So it took a year for me to figure out,

okay, what is going on with me?

And then what kind of structure and pieces can I have

in place and had to create a brand new relationship with

me and money.

And it's different for every business I work with.

Every person has a different desire and goal.

We call it their big dream and how is money going

to show up and support that.

But overall,

they just need a little bit of structure,

a way to talk to money and a way to know

their numbers so that they can move forward.

But it's going to look different depending on where everyone is

in their journey.

Yeah. What I'm hearing you saying if I were to summarize

is textbook learning,

isn't all of it.

It's part of it,

but then understanding who you are as a person where your

sensitivities are,

what motivates you and how you interact with money,

wherever that came from is the additional component that you have

to have to make sure that you're putting in place and

then taking actions that are going to work for you.

Yeah. That's a beautiful summary.

All right,

good. So this is an area that I am not as

good at.

I've always been good with money in terms of my Results,

for the most part,

like we all have our hiccups,

right. But I also take the slow and careful approach.

Most of the time we were talking a little bit as

we were chatting before I pushed the record button,

that a lot of the grounding that we have with money

comes unconsciously as we're growing up.

When we're young.

Let's talk about that a little bit.

Yeah. Our actual money mindset is actually put into our subconscious

by the time we're around seven,

maybe eight or nine.

So whatever was going on in your family,

it could be your parents.

It could be your grandparents or your external family unit,

whatever you saw,

whatever languages you heard or fights you might've seen and heard

that got set in your subconscious.

So for me,

my dad was actual,

he stole money and he stole money,

not from my brother and I,

which is why my parents got divorced.

And so there was a lot of fighting.

And my mom,

as a single mother,

there was a lot of lack.

And so those pieces got stuck in my subconscious.

And even though I wasn't actively making decisions from there,

they would always come up and influence those decisions as I

was going through it.

And so it's interesting to go back and not to blame

our parents or our family units,

but to actually be aware of it.

My grandparents went through the depression.

And so a lot of the things that I have in

my household,

I don't know if anyone's else's grandparents did that,

but I always have to have a little extra toilet paper.

Of course we've gone through COVID.

So we always have a little extra,

We were all impacted with this and our children are going

to pay for this future.

It sounds like those things influence Our buying behaviors and how

we interact with money.

And so we have to start there.

And then once we're aware of that,

we can grow from that.

But a lot of us weren't like I had no entrepreneurial

parents, no entrepreneurial relatives,

all of them were employee mindset,

which is very different when you go to being an owning

your own business.

But that's exactly the mindset I came into the business with,

which was hard was that person,

that boss almost killed me.

Well, how did you get raised?

What was the influences around you when you were in that

young developing mindset?

All my life.

And even now,

like there always seems to be money equals tension.

Whether it's talk about money,

having enough money,

what you will spend your money on.

All of that,

it seems like there's such emotion and conflict around money.

I'm trying to think of anybody who hasn't had,

something like that.

So I guess it's interesting just to understand for yourself where

it came from and define for yourself what your thoughts are.

I'm quite sure some people have never really thought about it

before in that way.

No, we haven't thought about it.

And then we're adults.

Now we get to choose.

Now, if that mindset is serving you,

you may not want to change it.

But most of the time,

if we've created debt and something about our relationship with money,

isn't going the right way.

We're actually using a subconscious belief and we have to like

get underneath.

And it's not always the most happy experience to get under

there, but to get under there and see,

what's really helping us make those decisions and then choose.

What other things would you like to do if you would

like to be more of a giver or more of a

saver, let's say as a spender,

I want to be more of a saber.

What would that look like?

And how could I get there?

And what's that number that I would want to have.

Those are things that we can take action on.

All right.

So let's circle this to people who are listening here and

thinking about this in relation to their business.

So I think the very first thing I'm hearing is you

don't have some thinking about where your position on money could

have originated.

That could be very insightful and kind of define who you

are. Like,

I think everyone knows if they're a spender or a saver,

right. I told my daughter the other day that I said,

we'd probably be broke if the financial control was just up

to me because of whatever,

I'm not going to go into that.

However, interestingly enough,

all my businesses have been profitable.

Number one,

this is interesting.

So analyze me,

Connie. So on the personal side,

I will spend not to get crazy in debt,

but I will spend without too much worry because if I

want something but not obnoxious,

not crazy,

but when it came to the business,

I was very rigid.

If I didn't have the money,

I didn't spend the money.

And so every single business that I've created is now three

have always been profitable without ever alone.

I have really a different mindset,

personal versus business.

Yeah. And that's pretty common.

I mean,

I think in that mindset is that we get so hung

up. It's kind of the same thing.

Why people have fear around the tax man or taxes,

they want to do it right.

And so sometimes when we get into business,

it's all about,

we got to do the right thing.

We got to be the best steward of money.

We've got to make the right choices with it.

Now I will say,

not a lot of businesses will do that.

Maybe you're in the top 20% of the businesses I've worked

with that,

go in and say,

okay, I'm going to not spend more than I have.

But I think it's that,

I don't know.

Maybe did you have a family member that was like showed

you how,

what a budget was or showed you?

What spin actual steward was Not a family member,

but when I was in corporate,

I was responsible for a budget worth millions and millions of

dollars. And although it wasn't my own money,

I knew my job would be at risk.

If I didn't manage my budgets properly,

I've always thought of it as I love the businesses that

I have so much or else I would be doing something

different that I want to make sure that they're healthy so

I can keep going.

Like I said earlier,

I will grow slower so that I can sleep at night.

Number one,

not be worried about paying all the bills cause that's too

stressful. And then just be healthier overall as business.

I've always done it that way.

So I don't know,

but I understand how companies start and they raise money or

they take out a loan because they have to for the

product or the industry that they're going to be in.

And then they recoup it and end up moving on to

be a very successful business.

That's just not me.

And I'm thinking for our handmade creators here,

that doesn't need to be them either.

Right. It doesn't have to be that way.

If I hadn't grown and gotten my commercial space and had

to buy equipment for our team members,

I could have done it differently.

It's that growth phase of like,

how are you going to get there?

And I also did consider I wasn't friends with dad at

the time as well.

And so I hadn't considered the repayment plan.

And my relationship with credit was interesting.

Like one of my coaches said,

why don't you freeze your credit card?

And I felt like I was going to cut off my

right arm.

I was like,

seriously, I went into some so much panic and that she's

just like,

you're just going to freeze it.

It's still there.

You can the prostate and use it.

But it felt like I was so dependent.

I had a co-dependency relationship with debt again,

that came from how I was raised and how I learned

about debt.

And so my husband has not the same,

a relationship with debt as I do.

And so it was interesting to see both point of views.

Yeah. But businesses don't have to do that way.

And I think with the cash handling system too,

is like,

people are starting their business and they're like,

okay, I don't want to go into debt.

I want to be sustainable.

I want to be profitable.

And so what does mean it could mean like you are,

as every sale comes out,

that you're really exploring your costs.

You're really calling out your value.

When you put a price on your goods and you're creating

some cash savings that will instantly make your business more sustainable.

If you can keep some of the money in the business,

which I think is different than the restaurants or the,

that are just going in there trying to survive.

COVID is that every money that comes in is right,

going right back out.

And they're not creating that savings that sustainability there.

Yeah. We talk a lot about pricing,

a product because as handmade product maker is one of the

things we often leave out when we're just starting is production

time for ourselves.

We're paying ourselves for that time that we've put in.

And considering that as being part of product creation,

which it is because if ever that portion of your price,

you're going to have to job out because you are growing

and you need to hire somebody that would then be going

to them.

But the other portion of that is your margin.

And the way I like to say it,

tell me what you think,

because you might help me.

I'm going forward here too.

But the other way I talk about this is your margin.

Isn't just the dollars that go into your pocket.

Like how profit first talks,

but also a portion that gets reinvested in the company.

And I think both those line items are important salary for

yourself. I don't even care if it's a penny or a

dime to start with,

but like having this specific line items.

So you see them from the start.

And if it's,

like I said,

the smallest number that it could possibly be,

but allocating certain numbers to those lines.

So you get in the habit right?

From the beginning.

I love that piece because that's exactly how I got into

debt is that I didn't consider that I went from being

a solo preneur to having commercial space and team.

And I forgot to add all those costs into my overhead

and I didn't increase my pricing.

And so that's a common thing to happen and I just

fell into that cycle and it took a while to get

back out.

But yeah,

that profit it's about being intentional with how you want to

do your pricing and your resources.

And it's like calling out the lines and don't be afraid

to call it out.

Nobody's going to see it.

It's your work.

When I go buy a really good gluten-free scone at my

local bakery,

I'm not asking,

so what's your market here.

Right? I just want the product.

If I'm really drawn to a piece of artwork,

it's that emotional connection I'm making.

I'm not thinking about what the back end of it is.

So it's really up to us as the maker to call

out what price is good that makes us sustainable so that

we just show up and do it again.

And again and again.

And so I remember one coach I worked with,

she was like,

yeah, that profit margin.

I want you to take all your costs and then add

70% to that.

And I couldn't do it,

but I got up there.

I got to like 40 to 50%.

But there's that covering that?

What if it takes longer?

What if you're not creatively inspired to keep moving forward?

What if there's a big issue?

Is that covered a CYA?

Yeah. Part of the budget as well,

but it's also investing for taxes.

It's investing for the future of the growth it's investing for

the new machinery you might need to buy it's that overhead

profit margin covers all those future things as well as what

your existing costs are.

Yeah. I remember when I started my first business,

it was out of my house.

So obviously the margins were a little different,

but very,

very quickly the business grew and I had to rent a

facility for production.

And luckily that all worked for me because I had landed

a large account and that large account covered the lease a

hundred percent.

So I'm like,

okay, this is great right now I'm at neutral.

But any additional business that I have can go towards all

these other expenses and et cetera,

et cetera.

But seriously,

I was finding hidden costs coming left and right,

like city permit,

business permit,

X amount of dollars,

fire license,

X amount of dollars,

garbage hauling X amount of dollars,

like things you don't even know.

And then that goes to your email list grows.

So all of a sudden your service provider is charging you

more because you've got a bigger email list.

Like there's things that no matter what you do are going

to come out of the woodwork that you weren't considering.

So again,

because I told you,

I like to sleep well at night.

Yes. Having even just a little stash or knowing that you're

going to need to fuel that stash at some point,

because let's also bring it to reality.

Sometimes you don't have the money for the stash yet,

but recognizing that that should be in place.

It just keeps you healthier.

And when something comes up that you weren't expecting,

you're like,

okay, this is why I have that reserve ready to go.

Great. And it depends on people's intention with money as well.

It might be more than one account and you might need

to give money an actual job,

especially for businesses that require inventory,

or they require to buy products to put on the shelves

and like retail or items to build the product that you're

doing. I don't have that as much.

So sometimes you may need a savings counts just for that,

because that will,

especially in restaurants and bakery,

they don't have the cash there to keep reinvesting and supplies

can cause a lot of problems with the business,

but have a savings account and give it a name,

give it a job and break it up if you need

to so that you can visually see it.

And it makes more sense,

okay. The savings accounts for this purpose,

and this is for this purpose,

again, create a better relationship so that you know how you're

going to intentionally use those resources and then whatever number it

is. So some of my clients like to co-mingle everything,

but they have a set number that they need in those

accounts. I need my accounts broken out because I need to

see it that way.

Yeah, no,

that's good.

Give your dollars a job.

And if you need to the separate accounts so that you

know that this is an,

let's just say that this is the one that's going to

be your safer emergencies.

Once the money goes in,

it does not come out unless it's for that particular thing.

So I guess this circles back to our,

I'm going to call it your money personality or your relationship

with money,

whether you need to have it separate,

whether it can be mingled together and knowing yourself and how

you manage money,

being really honest with yourself,

It does.

And that's where the cash handling system works like that.

And they've gonna go back to the profit first system.

The things that it did get right was the cash handling

system is like when money comes in,

can we create paws around it so that we can intentionally

move the money into the intentional accounts that we want before

we spend it?

Because a lot of the time we don't save for taxes

because we've already spent the money to run the business in

which we will get into tax liability issues.

Or we haven't paid ourselves because we paid everybody else,

but ourselves.

So how can you flip those uses and intentionally pay yourself

first or intentionally,

say for taxes,

as many comes in,

creates a smaller bucket for operational,

which again creates more sustainability so that you know,

whether you can grow or not.

And then the savings accounts can help you with those decisions

about future growth and how to get there.

That's where the pause in it.

It helps and money loves that money.

Loves it.

If you hold onto it a little longer,

you could throw some celebration in there with it and it

helps just pay attention to it a little bit more.

And sometimes depending on where you put it,

it makes more money.

Yes. That's a hard one right now,

but yes.

Yeah, for sure right now,

but all right,

so here's a question for you story.

There's a woman,

who's a knitter.

She starts her business.

Online customers are buying product from her in her community.

All of a sudden,

a cute little boutique opens up.

She decides she's going to invest in it because she thinks

it's a great idea to be able to sell her products

there, start selling yarn.

She can do little knitting circles cause she's very social.

So people will come in and everything just sounds beautiful.

So she gets started the first couple of months are pretty

good because she's brand new.

So everyone's coming in,

checking her out.

So she starts building inventory.

So she takes that as a sign,

that things are going really well.

And then as the novelty wears off,

numbers start to drop.

And so she's still got all our costs and she goes

month after month.

And she tries to bring in more people.

Some months are better than others,

but the overall revenue is going down,

which means she's now not covering her costs.

What do you do when something like that happens from a

mental standpoint because the challenge is always do I keep going?

Cause it's just going to get better and I know next

month will be better.

And Oh,

I'm just going to hang on one more month,

but then you keep building up your debt.

Is there any advice if someone gets themselves in a situation

like this,

of when you call it halt or you back off or

whatever your options are that you choose to do,

we'll hear Connie's advice when encountering a devastating situation like this,

right after a quick break.

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It's a hard space to be in.

So first is really know your numbers.

And oftentimes I will say it is helpful at that point

to bring somebody in who is not so emotionally attached to

your numbers,

but is very tied to your outcome.

I'd be like,

they're your cheerleader.

They're going to support you.

So oftentimes we'll reach out to our CPA or our bookkeeper,

but they are so number focused that you may not get

the exact answer you need.

So usually this will be a coach or a strategic advisor,

or maybe accountability partner,

have them sit with you as you walk through your numbers.

And a lot of it's going to be you,

where is your pain point?

Where is your risk factor?

Are you willing to go four months?

If you were to finance that,

would you be willing to carry that?

Do you have the resources to do that?

A lot of the time it's the answer will be no.

And so that's a good thing.

So like I worked with a lot of clients through COVID

and when it first happened,

and that was what we talked about is like,

well, if you have to be closed,

do you have enough expenses or enough resources to stay close

to pay for these things?

And if the answer still is no,

what would it take to wrap the business up?

Could you find some other type of way to innovate it?

Could you move home?

Could you do it virtually to think about all those things?

And that's why it's so hard to do it on your

own. And especially if you're a woman entrepreneur or business owner,

we tend to need to talk things through more often.

So find somebody that you can do that with,

but look at all the options and you're going to have

to know your numbers to do that,

then play with them.

What would it look like to do this or do that,

and then really look at where your own personal risk factor

is because everyone's different.

Okay. Right.

So the answer really lies in the numbers and how different

numbers could play out and the reality of that actually happening.

Yeah. And so for that client or that story that you're

telling, the things that we would want to look at is

innovation. Of course,

retail is hard because again,

it's about getting people to you,

finding you.

And I think COVID has given us this opportunity though,

that a lot of things can be virtual.

A lot of things we can bring in from outside,

from all over the country,

it doesn't have to be just local,

but finding a good retail spot can be difficult because it's

all about being seen.

So how can you create more innovation to be found in

a wider spectrum?

So like,

I buy a lot of my stuff from a maker in

Canada. I do a lot of apothecaries all over someone in

Eugene for this,

which is about a couple hours from where I live.

So again,

I found them through Instagram and through different channels that I

would never have done because I would not go to those

locations. And that you would have never been their customer if

it was location-based only either.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. It's interesting.

And I wasn't even thinking about bringing this up,

but in a VIP call that I had this morning,

we were talking about the pros and cons of brick and

mortar, like a commercial production space,

because you've just overgrown your house or home-based.

And part of that conversation was,

and I'll relate it back to the story.

I just told ebbing and flowing and adjusting your business structure

is a solution.

Like, it doesn't mean that if you had a brick and

mortar and all of a sudden you went back and were

home-based for some time that you're a failure,

it's just an adjustment.

And many times people do that because they thought that they

were really going to like it,

but they don't like to have to staff the store 24

six, or how,

you know,

what, what is it like 10,

six, or whenever that equation would be,

or hire staff to do it,

but they didn't want to feel tied down.

So when they thought they would like a brick and mortar

shop, it ends up that they really don't.

And so they do some other type of a model.

So changing the way you're doing business is absolutely fine.

And I think that goes back to though what you were

saying, Connie is looking at your numbers,

understanding what they're saying and being realistic about where it's trending

and whether that could turn around or not.

If it was trending down and then being creative and making

adjustments, it doesn't mean if it's trending down that you have

to close up shop,

there are other options out there.

Yeah. And I think that creativity and innovation is key.

It's how we used to do business even five years ago

is not necessarily how businesses need to react going forward.

There's so much innovation we can do with pop-up shops and

coworking space.

And here we have a lot of shared commercial space for

kitchens. So there's a lot of different ways that 20 years

ago were not available before 20 years ago.

It was,

you had to have brick and mortar.

You had to do it on your own,

but that is not the case.

We are more community Wren.

Now we are more,

if it can't be your own brick and mortar.

Great. But you're just getting to that point of like growth

is like just a few feet out than from where you're

at. There's lots of different options.

We just have to be willing to be creative for sure.

Sure. And especially with this community,

because there are a lot of artists in co-ops where you

have retail space,

your own retail space,

but you're not carrying the full load of the lease and

the building and water.

And like all the things that,

that includes.

So there are quite a few options.

Let's take it back to someone who is starting.

And you were saying earlier that you have to just be

considering everything from the start.

And part of what you've talked about is you need the

budget. You need to figure all that out.

What advice would you give somebody who's just starting or is

a few months in maybe a year in now and is

really kind of going off the cough they're selling money's coming

in. They're kind of applying it where the bills fall,

Call my people,

your people talk to your people.

Oh my gosh.

Yes, no,

I know these people.

Well, yes.

Cause budget to a lot of people that are listening is

a four letter word.

So it is also why I don't use it in my

business. I call it a financial plan.

It's like for any good adventure,

we're going to need some type of roadmap.

If you're going to go from Portland to New York,

you pull the map out.

So you kind of relatively know the way you're going.

The same thing with business and the map is our numbers.

Our numbers help us build that.

And we,

aren't going to know all the numbers for all the places

on the financial plan,

but we can give it a guess.

And that's again,

where bringing in a mentor or a coach or somebody who's

has a little bit experience in your industry can help fill

in some of the blanks.

But I always recommend somebody when they're doing their financial plan,

look at it in three stages.

And right now that's a good,

better, best is the best way I can explain it.

So good would be like your bare minimum.

What do you need today to survive or to keep moving

forward better would be like,

if you've got some growth and you've got some more bigger

clients in or bigger sales in,

what would that look like?

And then best would be your big dream.

Where would you like to go and just plug some numbers

in play with them a little bit,

a financial plan is not set in stone.

It changes as things around us in our world change,

or as innovation comes into play,

those numbers will change.

So we're constantly going to go back and make them our

friend, and really look at them and change them quarterly or

every six months,

but really lean into that plan and just have fun with

it. And I know that's weird.

That's coming from somebody who numbers were easy and that is

actually my human design.

That's my gift.

My purpose in this world is to make numbers easy for

people. So sometimes you,

again might need somebody to help guide that spreadsheet,

but once you have it lean into it and find a

ritual and a habit around paying attention it.

Yeah, For sure.

So I'll be curious to what you think about this.

So I have a program that I introduce annually.

It's called maker's MBA.

It is now closed or just closed like a few days

ago. But when I get to that financial section,

what I do is for brand new people who are starting

their business,

I break it into year one expenses and then moving forward

expenses, some of those are duplicated,

but when you're starting your business,

there are some things that are expenses that are one time,

like when you're registering your business as an LLC,

for example,

or a lot of different types of things that are one

time expenses.

Only that just to your point,

when you put in numbers,

the first year is pretty much standard.

You know what it is,

you're going to pay it.

You have to have the money to pay it.

And then that goes away forever more.

But then that second year and forward you learn more over

time, right?

And if you overlay that on top of sales,

that's kind of like a P and L statement,

but it also helps you,

like, if you try to anticipate the sales that you need

to cover the expenses that you already know,

you have,

it helps you understand what you need to be doing moving

forward. Do you agree with that?

Oh yeah.

I do agree with that.

A lot of the times people start with the sales and

they randomly pick a number out of the air because it

sounds good.

Or if you're in a mastermind or something,

everyone else says they want to make 10,000.

So that sounds like a great number a month I want

to do.

Right. And actually though,

it's the expenses you have to start with.

How do you want money to support you?

How do you want money to support the business?

And then what does it support you and your lifestyle and

include that because then that generates,

okay, this is the revenue I need to bring in.

So what does that look like then?

And then you can break it into however you want to

create that revenue.

And it can be different streams.

It feels to me like a big puzzle then too,

because if you know how much you can sell,

and for us that starts with,

if you're a one person business,

how much of your product you could even make?

Like if you were to say 10,000,

but there's no way you could make 10,000

worth of your product.

Well, you already know that that's on achievable unless you bring

in people to help you.

Right? So let's start and just say,

you are the only person.

So you,

at some point are maxed on how much you could make

just by the bounding of product you could create.

So then you lay out exactly what you were saying.

It also helps you understand what types of services you can

afford or the variance of services.

So for example,

like a customer management system,

those range from free to hundreds of dollars a month.

So based on the way you play your numbers,

you're able to tell,

well, I don't need that.

Super-duper crazy expensive client management system,

even though some other people I know are using it and

love it,

I'm going to go with something more fitting for where I

am right now.

And I can look at that later.

Or like,

I think of all the social media apps that are out

and all the filters and all the fun,

little things that you can do.

And you know,

it's $50 there,

29 here,

seven 99 a month here,

all that stuff starts to add up.

And so I think that there's a lot of hidden money

that we don't even know is there because some of these

apps we spend money for,

and then we don't even ever use them.

We forget we have them,

but they're coming up on our charge card.

Yeah, it does.

I use my calendar to remind me when those charges are

coming up so I can give some thought to it again.

That's why you create the plan,

right? You can identify what those are.

I also think too,

if you haven't identified that you're a spender and where your

risk factor is when it comes to money,

we will tend to not only buy those tools or buy

that CMS tool.

I'm thinking of one in particular that I invested in because

everyone else was doing it.

And it seemed like it was the perfect fit,

but again,

it was outside what my money could support at the time.

And I didn't think about all the other support that was

needed to implement that big tool,

all the other,

the qualified team member that knew the tool already that can

help support it.

So if you know that you're a spender,

can you put some pauses in your spending as well?

Like for me,

I have to get myself at least 72 hours before I

make a decision.

Especially if it's over a certain dollar amount,

because if it's under $197,

I'll say yes and just do it.

So I need to create some pauses in that for me.

So again,

here we come back to knowing what your style is and

where your risk factor is,

and then also what your numbers can support.

Yeah. I like that pauses in your spending.

That makes a lot of sense.

The other place we're talking a little bit of tips now,

we're just going off the cuff.

Right. And talking some tips.

The other thing I think,

where we can do some,

what I'll call blind spending is when you sign up for

something that's like seven day free trial,

and then you still have to enter your credit card,

but seven day free trial,

you may try it.

You may forget that you should try it,

but then all of a sudden you start getting charged for

it. And you don't know.

So those are things to keep your eye on as well.

Yes. And sometimes,

I mean,

you're like,

Oh, lesson learned,

okay, I'll eat it.

But go back sometimes and ask for a refund.

I did that with one of my tools and they went

back and said,

Oh yeah,

you haven't used it at all.

And gave me a full refund.

So, but yeah,

again, put reminders in.

If you're going to test it out,

there's a new tool we're looking at right now.

And I'm like,

I don't have time to test it fully.

So I'm not going to do the 14 day trial because

by the time we're done,

I'm not going to have decision made.

I'm going to end up paying for it.

And it probably be two months before I make a decision.

So what's your bandwidth.

When you're looking at tools,

how much time we actually devote to figuring out if it's

a good buyer or not.

So maybe a free trial is at your best option at

the time.

Yeah. I did get caught in this where I went through

a, I started this a year and a half ago or

so. And like,

I didn't even remember all that I had out there with

between apps and tools and you know,

all that stuff.

And so what I started doing is every time I'm diligent

on my credit cards,

I look at every single line item,

make sure it's actually mine first off.

And then when something would come up,

I would look at it.

And then I was putting it in my daytimer because of

the auto renewals.

Right. So I was putting in my day-timer like,

what am I paying for monthly?

What am I paying for annually?

So I'd write down what it was and how much I

was paying.

And I did something similar to you in a way,

like, if this is something that's annualizing and shoot,

I really am not using it.

I have asked,

Oh my gosh,

this just auto renewed.

I'm not using it.

I need to cancel this for now.

Love your app.

Maybe back,

sometimes that works.

Sometimes that doesn't work,

but now I have a really good understanding of what I'm

using. But then I think the next layer on top of

that is what's the value and the return for what you're

using. Like I'm thinking of something that I'm using as an

add-on to my emails right now.

And part of me is saying,

you know what,

it's pretty expensive.

Like, do I really need that to get the same result?

Because it's not boosting Results and it costs $37 a month.

So I'm like,

that's a lot of money over the course of a year.

Do I really need that?

So going back and analyzing,

but you can't analyze something you don't know about.

That's just the way I managed it,

because I think there's a lot of hidden dollars that we

just forget about.

And then when you find them and you recoup them,

that's new money.

Yes. That's fun money.

Yes. Yeah.

That's awesome.

And evaluating sometimes in the world we're in right now,

things are apps and things.

A lot of people get stuck in,

Oh, it will take too much time for me to change

this app or change this tool.

And so we continue to pay for these things that aren't

serving us anymore.

I did this with a project management tool recently we're in

the process of changing back to a free tool.

So again,

where's your innovation,

where's your ability to change that.

And a lot of us aren't willing to be that innovative.

So if you are going to buy a tool,

consider that it's not your permanent end all tool,

there may be a time to change.

Yeah. And your business changes over time too.

Your focus may be different.

You may need different tools,

either more weighty tools or lighter tools.

You never know.

I go back to what you said earlier,

which is give your money a job,

but then be very intentional with what you are looking at,

doing next to just being super in control of your business

and having the projection.

Don't let actions of other things or unintentional actions guide your

business, know where you're trying to go be intentional with what

you're doing to get there specifically as it relates to money

for this conversation.

Oh my gosh.

This has been so interesting.

Kind of just had like a little girl chat all about

money, a little less structured.

But I think that that's really helpful because we brought up

different points that I think are going to resonate with different

people. But what would you say to somebody overall about money?

If they've listened to everything we've said,

because we've talked about beginning people,

people who have been in business for a while,

home-based brick and mortar,

like all over the place,

right? What would you say to somebody to make sure they've

got the right mindset coming out of this conversation?

What we were taught about numbers and money may not be

true and you can choose,

you're an adult.

You can choose not always choose a new reality or,

and so money and numbers can be super easy.

And if you would like that to happen,

then make that choice.

And your action step will be to ask for a little

help and then just keep that faith that it can be

easy and numbers can support your lifestyle because that's what they're

here for.

Money is really here to support us.

So it's the way we currently exchange energy.

You have a product or service and somebody else would like

to purchase it.

That's our current exchange rate.

That's all it is.

There's not good or bad there.

And numbers are not good or bad either.

It's just the way we're keeping score for our business.

And so you are in charge of what you'd like to

create, and you have a gift that you'd like to get

out in the world.

So numbers and money are going to be your best friends

to do that.

So lean into that and try to find a new way

of being with them in your space.

And how do you help people like us.

Get that done.

Tell us a little bit more about what you provide and

what you offer.

Sure. Well,

first off,

I always want people to have their next step.

So if you have any questions or anything,

we give them a 30 minute free conversation of like,

okay, I was confused about this,

or I need more steps on this.

That's what I'm here for.

That's my purpose again,

to make numbers easy for people.

So what I normally do is clients will have a conversation

with me and if they need more support in creating their

financial plan,

we do a strategy session.

And then longer term,

I work with business owners.

One-on-one usually weekly to talk about what's going on in their

business, more of a business mentoring role.

And then how does number support that?

And we configure it based on whatever their business model is.

And it could go for six months.

Sometimes it goes longer.

There's not a really big structure there around it.

It's I don't bring a set plan.

We kind of like created as we go.

So that is very custom,

but it's all going to be with knowing your numbers.

First, the financial plan is key.

Being intentional with words,

action, and resources,

the cash handling system will be the next step.

And then nurturing your relationship with money is looking at how

you're interacting with it,

what your mindset is around it.

And what are you saying every day around it?

So like one of my key phrases that somebody else had

to point out to me was just make enough.

And that is exactly what I was doing.

I was just making barely enough to keep the business open,

but nothing extra.

And so sometimes it's about the words we say,

unconsciously, that is stopping us.

And so those are my pillars that I share in my

business. This is so interesting because the combination of numbers with

that overlay,

that personality overlay is so,

so important.

And I don't hear a lot of people talking about that.

So thank you for sharing all that you know,

with us and giving us some little tidbits insights and all

of it.

I just appreciate you so much.

Thank you,

Connie. Thank you.

Bye. See,

I talk about numbers.

Doesn't have to be dry or stiff at all.

That was fun.

Wasn't it take some time to think about Connie's question.

Are you just making enough that can help you squeak by

month after month,

but you deserve so much more.

I'm thrilled to say that after a short delay,

next week,

we'll be bringing Pinterest back up to the top of the

list. It's actually been a good thing that this episode got

postponed because a lot has been going on over in Pinterest

territory, and now you'll have the latest and the greatest that'll

be up and available for you next Monday.

First thing,

thanks so much for spending time with me today.

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Got a really fun post in there.

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