373 – How And Why To Get Your Product Sustainability Score With Austin Simms of Dayrize

Gift biz unwrapped episode 373.

You only know if you have something of value to your

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Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

It's Sue and thank you so much for joining me today.

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I have another great topic coming your way.

I've had a lot of great topics from our guests lately.

If I don't say so myself,

do you hear the one on quizzes for product based businesses?

I've gotten so many messages from you on that one.

And I bet today's will be the same.

So let me ask you,

have you ever given thought to how sustainable your products are?

Of course you talk about the benefits of your products for

your customers,

like containing only healthy or all natural ingredients,

but how about what they do to support the environment.

These are two different things and they don't automatically go hand

in hand.

I've learned so much through this conversation and I'm pretty sure

you will,

to things I never considered before.

Like the various ways a product can affect our world.

Austin will share with us five different what he calls dimensions

of product impact.

There's no doubt.

This is becoming more and more a topic,

no matter where you fall on the global warming discussion.

So being informed is just smart and using it to strengthen

your business and do the earth.

Some good is even better without any more from me.

Let's get right into this enlightening conversation Today.

We are going to get to know Austin Sims.

After more than 20 years spent working at major corporations like

Nike Phillips and Brooks running Austin had a desire to use

his skills to address climate change.

Austin believes that putting the power in consumer's hands is important

to make real change.

He recognizes that the first thing that consumers need is access

to information to make better decisions.

assessment transparent for businesses and consumers.

Austin believes commerce and sustainability are linked and business needs to

be a major catalyst for addressing climate change.

Austin, welcome to the gift biz on wrapped podcast.

I am really interested in diving into this topic.

We've never addressed it before,

and I see some huge application for our listeners.

So we're going to get to that in half a second,

but I do have a traditional question here for you,

Austin, that I'm going to ask you to answer.

If you could share with us in a little bit of

a different way,

more of a creative way,

I'll say,

how would you describe your perfect motivational candle?

Thanks. So my perfect motivational candle is I think in terms

of color it's yellow,

because I think that's the most joyful color.

And I think I'm always glass half full solutions.

Forward-looking what can we do?

So yellow,

I think is the co-op.

And I think maybe as a motivational saying,

I think the one that's maybe a set with me the

longest, and maybe I revert back to is jumping.

The net will appear in that.

Just take a chance,

push forward,

make a decision.

And maybe you don't know the outcome of it,

but if you have enough confidence and you've thought it through,

you'll find a path.

So I think the ability to make a leap and have

confidence that the rest that we figured out as you make

that leap is something that really motivates me.

I love that.

And so important because we can sit and think forever,

but until you actually do something to your point,

make a leap.

You're never going to know,

but it's hard to make that leap initially because you're jumping

into unknown.

I think it takes a special type of person or maybe

just that special type of mindset to be able to do

it. But I think that's where the energy comes from is

if we all had certain outcomes and everything that we would

do life would be a little bit too predictable and boring,

I think by taking that chance.

And when there is an unknown at the end of it,

I think that's the excitement and that's the energy and when

we're still a startup and I know a lot of your

listeners are in the startup mode,

so we're still sort of in between starting up and scaling

up. So there's still a lot of unknowns in our business.

And I think that's the intensity and the energy that we

get each day.

So it comes with a little bit of complexity,

but I think it comes with a high energy at the

same time.

Agreed. And also that you're not going to necessarily get it

absolutely a hundred percent perfect right out of the gate.

You know,

I think so many people think,

oh my gosh,

I don't know where to do what if I'm not doing

this right.

It's more important to start and figure it out and make

adjustments along the way versus waiting,

learning forever until you're think you're going to get it right.

Because you really never do.

Yeah, exactly.

We've already been through one full pivot.

So we were only three years old and we've already pivoted

our business.

I won't say 180 degrees,

but certainly 90 degrees.

And we had a separate piece that was a big part

of it.

So I think you're exactly right.

You will never get it right first time.

And the market will tell you whether you're right or wrong.

That's the great thing with product market fit.

You only know if you have something of value to your

end customer by testing it and seeing if there is a

market for it.

And they'll let you know very quickly.

And I think being able to listen to that and being

flexible enough to adapt to that is one of the ingredients

for success.

Yeah. My listeners are very familiar with that concept because I

talk a lot about specialty when you're starting,

that you may make the most beautiful candles in the world.

I'm just going to stick with candles here,

but until you actually test it out and see if your

customer not other people's customers who have candle companies,

but your customer is going to like what you're making,

it can be beautiful and you can love it,

but if they're not willing to buy it,

doesn't help.

So you've got to actually test everything and markets change along

the way too.

So there's always room for adjustments.

I think it's a Thomas Jefferson quote to give some American

bonafide east to me.

And if I forgot that this ride we said is in

matters of principle,

stand like a rock and in matters of tastes swimming with

the stream.

And I think that's the great thing of,

you want to make sure that you listen to your customer

and sort of adapt to what they need,

but you also want to make sure that you stick with

your values and your principles at the same time.

So getting that balance right.

Of knowing what's a principle of yours that you don't want

to give up,

it's very important to you and knowing what is something that's

more taste driven that you need to adapt getting the decision-making

right. And both of those,

those really important Makes sense.

Yeah. That's food for thought,

for sure.

So you made a leap out of multiple,

very successful corporate careers.

Talk us through how you did that and how you came

to day rise.

Yeah. So mostly stage of life for me,

I've got two kids at home.

I've got two,

basically Greta Thornberg's at home that constantly remind me that we're

not leaving a great planet in great shape for them.

So that's a good reminder.

And I was actually how I started was I was on

holiday with a friend of mine.

Who's now my co-founder.

And we were actually,

our kids were playing in the swimming pool and on this

floating device.

And we got into a huge debate about whether that floating

device was sustainable or not.

And so that the boat raged for a while,

and then we realized that we had no way of actually

knowing if it was sustainable or not.

There was no objective measure.

We were just arguing our points of view.

So I think that really unlocked a path for us as

well. If we don't know the no one knows how do

we help actually unlock that.

So I think I got into it based on stage of

life, wanting to having had a career in more of the

corporate world,

wanting to turn that to something good.

And there was just a moment in time where there was

a great clarity for me in terms of where the gap

was. And having worked in consumer marketing and communication for a

long time,

how can we actually unlock that transparency for consumers to put

the power on the consumer's hand?

So it was building towards that,

but there was that sort of one moment,

almost like an aha moment when I was away and sort

of figured out what our role and what our path could

be. I think that's so important because we do vote with

our dollars,

right? So people who really want to help impact climate change

with, through our purchases.

Haven't had a method of doing that.

I mean,

companies can say one thing,

but I love this idea of the ranking.

And I know we're going to get into that a little

bit later,

but that makes so much sense to me.

So you had this light bulb moment,

let's say.

And did you leave your corporate job?

Did you merge into this?

Or how did that all happen?

Yeah, so we had an idea and obviously we'd spend some

time honing it and sort of figuring out,

okay, how do we turn it into just a thought into

something that has structure and a bit of direction.

And one thing we realized was between the two of us

as founders,

we didn't have the skillsets,

all the skill sets required to make this a success.

So one of the skillsets we were missing was how do

we create something that is a technology that actually understands sustainability

and the complexity and the nuances of it and can automate

that. And so we found a partner that can do that

for us.

That's a lady called Ava Gladys,

who was actually CEO of a big sustainability company in Europe.

And then we actually,

at the time we were actually trying to turn it into

an e-commerce marketplace.

We've now moved away from that.

But, and that was the pivot that I spoke about earlier.

And so we actually wanted someone with e-commerce skills.

So that was the first thing we did was realized we

didn't have the right skillsets or enough of the right skill

sets. So we actually brought in the founders' team to get

the right skill sets on board.

And that probably took us about six months to do that

and sort of work through all of that.

And then I left my corporate job and we started day

rides. So yeah,

so it didn't leave straight away.

There was a little bit of sort of setup work to

make sure that we felt like there was enough the business

plan underneath it,

and that we had the right people that could actually make

it a success.

And then we jumped in.

It makes so much sense.

And now looking at your website,

I did a little snooping before we got on today.

So I had some questions to ask you,

but I was really impressed by the team you've developed.

You have quite a few professional people who are they giving

input? Are they the board members?

Like who are those people that I'm seeing on your website?

So There's like how many 20 people there may be something

like that.

It's about 15 of us.

And I guess in full transparency,

we were a bigger team about six months ago.

But again,

going back to that pivot,

we have this technology that we'll talk about that actually drags

the sustainability and we had a marketplace and we're bringing that

to life on the marketplace,

but we realized that the marketplace wasn't actually,

whether the man was for the technology.

So we actually shut down the marketplace and just fully focus

now on the scoring or sustainability technology.

But that was really difficult because we'd had people working in

the business for two years,

w we were very close to and because we made that

people, we had to shrink the team.

So we lost about 10 people sort of about six months

ago. So that's part of the pain as a startup and

that pivot.

So now we're down to 15 people and they're mostly across

technology and sales,

the two major functions that we have Makes sense.

Okay. All right.

So let's dive into the topic at hand challis and to

ground everybody let's talk about sustainability and what that is,

what that actually means.

Yeah. I really shoot with the term sustainability only because I

think it's so overused now it's become misused and overused and

it's quite opaque in terms of what it actually means.

And we talk a lot about greenwashing and there is a

lot of greenwashing out there,

but my view on that is a lot of the greenwashing

actually happens not through bad intent.

It's just,

people don't know,

it's just a lack of transparency and a lack of information.

So we're a solutions based company and we want to help

people on their sustainability journey.

And we do that by providing a level of transparency.

So what we actually measure is impact.

So we talk more about impact and sustainability.

So how do we measure the environmental and social impact of

products and give that transparency?

So that brands,

producers like the people that listen to your podcasts can actually

understand where their impact is,

and then translate that into consumer facing tools as well.

Okay. So we would look at,

for our listeners who are handmade product creators,

we are then looking at the different parts of the product

that we make and the impact that they have in the

environment and consequently,

the product that we're putting out out the total products impact

on the environment and possibly places where we could make some

changes, make some adjustments to have I'm using your words higher

impact or being more sustainable or environmentally friendly,

I guess I would say.

Yeah, exactly.

That. So zoom out a little bit.

So there is a way,

so we don't have the information for consumers.

That's where it started.

As I said,

we were saying,

how do we solve it?

So consumers can make better informed decisions when we sort of

pulled on that thread and sort of tried to figure out

why there wasn't enough information for consumers.

It's because most brands,

in fact,

every brand that we work with and we work with over

500 brands,

don't have all the information through their supply chain.

And so there's a lot of unknowns and that might be

less for your actual listeners if they're making them by hand.

And that's really exciting because the more you actually understand about

your supply chain,

the better school you generally get.

So we then collect them to actually score the products.

We actually collect the information from the brands and we have

a very holistic view of how we measure a product.

And we actually measure the impact of a product against five

dimensions of sustainability.

So the first one is climate impact,

and that's the one that we all generally know that's about

carbon primarily.

So how much carbon is used to actually create your product?

And that's in the sourcing of the materials,

in the manufacturing of their products and how it gets distributed.

So what's the total footprint of the carbon.

And how do we break that down through those three steps?

So, you know exactly where the carbon is.

Okay. Question,

I've got a pop in my questions or I'm going to

forget. So for example,

if somebody is sourcing product from overseas,

let's say that would have a greater carbon imprint than if

they were sourcing locally.

Well, it depends,

it's a little bit more nuanced than that in terms of,

if those three things that I talked to that.

So the sourcing manufacturing and distribution,

certainly from a distribution or logistics point of view would have

a higher footprint because obviously you're using carbon to move it

from 1 10,

1 place to another.

But if you actually taking it from,

let's just say,

you're sourcing cotton.

And the cotton that you're getting from India is a lot

lower carbon impact than the cotton that you're sourcing locally.

Then it actually might be a lower footprint,

even though that cotton has to come from India to get

to you in the United States,

it could actually net result be a lower impact because the

actual sourcing of that cotton is a higher impact on cotton

than the actual logistics of it.

So it's not as easy to say that just because the

source material needs to travel further,

that has a high impact.

We really need to look into the complexity of how that

actually that raw material is sourced because that needs to factor

into it as well.

And that's the complexity that we can actually build into it,

through the technology that we've gone.

All right.

That's very interesting because you would just automatically assume that if

it goes shorter distances,

it's a lighter carbon footprint,

and that's not necessarily the case because a lot of people

will claim that everything's sourced locally better for the environment.

And what you're saying is maybe yes,

maybe no.

Yeah. And maybe there's a good example here where we did

some work recently,

there's apples here in the Netherlands that come from New Zealand

that have a lower carbon footprint than apples that are grown

in the Netherlands,

not far away from here.

So that is part of the issue with sustainability is it

is so nuanced and complex.

It can become overwhelming.

And we've tried to simplify that through technology to say,

okay, you just need to give us the information of where

it comes from and where it's going to and what sort

of material it is.

And we can then start to do those calculations for you

to make it easy for you to understand it.

I'm getting really excited about this.

Okay. All right.

So the first one is climate impact and you say there's

five dimensions,

right? Yeah.

So that's that's climate.

The second one is ecosystem impact.

So that basically measures what's the impact across the bio-diversity with

how you create the products.

So when you actually sourcing raw materials,

for example,

how is that impacting the biodiversity around there when you source

it and then how it fresh water is used to create

that product.

So that becomes really important to measure how much impact is

it having on the environment.

And we can assess that for you,

depending on where you're sourcing the product from the third one,

which I think is really interesting for your listeners,

as well as the circularity of the product.

So when you're making a product,

how much of them it's you as you're using are reused,

recycled, or refurbished that this is Virgin materials,

knowing that obviously by recycling materials will be fair materials.

We're putting less of a strain on the Earth's natural resources.

And also when the product is end of life,

how do you end of life?

Is there a take-back scheme?

Can you repair it or when,

if it needs to,

is it at its end of life?

How easy is it for those warm materials then to be

reused as well?

So we look at that end to end the circularity of

the product of how sparkly it is and how much pressure

it's putting on the Earth's natural resources.

Okay. So let me ask you a question here.

I know I keep interrupting you.

I hope that doesn't irritate you.

Okay. So we have a number of people who listen here,

who part of the interaction with our customers is a program

where let's say pampering products like lotions or sugar scrubs,

things like that,

where when they're done,

they can return the container that the product came in and

they get a discount on their future order because they can

then reuse those containers.

Would that fit into this dimension of circularity?

Totally would.

That's awesome.

One thing I didn't say is we actually,

for each of these elements,

we look at the impact of the product itself and the

packaging, and then we combine them,

but also separate them.

So you understand what your overall impact is,

but also how much of your impact is coming from your

actual production of your product.

How much is coming from your packaging,

if you do have what we would call conceivable products,

so where something you sell it and the product is fully

consumed, and then you have a take back scheme that actually

takes that packaging back and compare reuse.

That's a fantastic way.

You get a very high score for circularity on that.

Okay. So for all our bakers,

you know,

or anyone who's making something that you're eating that already in

this particular dimension of circularity and would get a good score.

Absolutely. Yeah.

And the health and VA products where you actually use the

cream and then send it back.

Anything like that would score very well.

Okay. All right.

Got it.

Cool. So they're the three ones that I talked about environmental

and social impact.

So they're the three environmental impacts.

We also look at social impact.

So how are people treated through the supply chain when you're

producing the product?

And again,

I think that's super interesting for your listeners.

So for the bigger companies we're looking at,

obviously the factories they were using to promote their products and

how are they using fair pay?

Is there gender equality,

all these types of triggers to make sure that the people

that are sustainable part of it,

isn't just the environment,

but that needs to be made sustainably and this to be

supporting people sustainably and budding.

That's interesting.

If you have a real visibility on your supply chain,

if you're a sort of a smaller supplier and you actually

even make it yourself or don't know where that's made,

you can get a very,

very high score for that.

Interesting. Okay.

All right.

Would it hold true that if you're using a factory,

for example,

in China,

your score here might be a little lower.

Yeah. I think it depends where like this is done at

a regional basis.

So we do it in two ways with this.

If you have third party authentication,

that's sort of the same as you,

or if there's been an audit of that factory and it

makes a certain benchmarks and then you can still score reasonably

well. But in the absence of that,

we take a risk based approach.

So we know based on the different regions of these countries,

that various risk levels of,

I guess,

yeah. Not having fair pay or not having gender equality.

And then we apply a risk to that.

So it's not always the case that China is bad.

Obviously it's a riskier proposition because there is more bad practices

there. So if you can provide the third party documentation that

proves that there's good practices,

then you can still score well.

But if you can't provide that,

then generally you will score less well because there is a

bad practice in China that we need to be alerted to.

Okay. All right.

Interesting. Okay.

And what's the name of that dimension?

I don't think I caught that.

Yeah. Sorry.

Livelihoods and wellbeing is what we call.

So that's the fourth dimension,

livelihoods and wellbeing.

And then the fifth dimension,

which is a little bit harder to quantify public feel is

really important is the purpose of the product.

So what's the actual purpose of the product.

So consuming things and consumption and itself isn't necessarily bad.

We just need to not over consume.

And we need to make sure that we're diverting resources into

areas that are of highest value to us as consumers.

So if you're creating a product that has a high purpose,

such as clothing,

such as shelter,

these types of things.

So we've always got an extended Maslow's hierarchy of needs to

sort of judge what the overall purpose of the product is.

And then we take all five of those dimensions and they're

equally weighted to come up with a score that it gives

you an overall sustainability score.

Okay. That is so cool.

Well, first off,

I'm going to say that all of my listeners products are

high value on purpose.

They rank so high.

Okay. So all five of these come together and then you

get an overall score.

And just for everybody to kind of get this,

I was looking on the website and you know,

how you can do like your credit scores.

You can go to,

you know,

all the different sites and they show you a circle with

a range and a number that's kind of how it looks

like here with day rise to you,

get a number.

And what's the perfect number.

How, how high can a number go?

Yeah. So let's go with out of a hundred,

out of a hundred,

to a hundred being good to the higher,

the score,

the better.

And then as you're looking at the website,

you'll see that the,

you get a score and then you actually get that score

out of a hundred and you get a comparison to other

products in your category.

So it's benchmark against other products in your category.

So you get a good sense of where you are and

then you get a breakdown of that score over those five

dimensions that I spoke about.

So how do you actually get to that overall score of

a hundred?

You get a breakdown of that.

And then,

then what's really interesting for your listeners is then you get

a report on each of those dimensions.

So climate impacts,

ecosystem impact,

circularity, livelihoods,

and wellbeing and purpose.

You get a full report for each of those dimensions that

shows you exactly what your impact is.

Product versus packaging,

really detailed about where it is that you are doing really

well and where it is that you potentially look for improvements

and suggested improvements.

So it's a really rich dashboard that you get for each

of your products,

where you can really explore these reports,

really get a breakdown of that impact and a level of

visibility that you haven't been able to get before.

And then as part of that,

obviously there's the consumer,

which is the exciting part as well.

We can actually take a simplified version of your score report.

That's more consumer friendly and then export that into your direct

to consumer channels,

into your social media.

If you're working with retailers,

you can also export it to the retail site.

And then you can really start to verify your sustainability story

to your end consumer.

You're giving credibility,

versus just making a statement about your product in general,

as a category,

you're talking about your product specifically,

that you've made.

Exactly. Yeah.

So this is,

this is almost like an independent verification and assessment of your

product. Yes,

yes. Okay.

And so when your product is benchmarked,

it's benchmarked then against other similar products who have gone through

your process,

cause it has to match against what you're looking at.

Right? Exactly.

So we do actually do two things.

One is exactly that,

which is in your category or the products that we score,

where you sit and that sort what's the average and where

do you sit versus that average?

But the other thing we do with the products is we

have, there's actually,

it's not our database or the global database that anyone can

access. That actually has a standardized measurement of impact across every

single product category.

So from candles to jump to sweaters,

to computers like what's the standard impact measurement.

And we also do a comparison of your product.

This is that standard.

So we do a benchmark against our own database,

but also against sort of the global database standard impact.

You also get that as a measurement tool.

That's really quite powerful,

particularly when you start to tell that story to consumers,

if you can,

if you are sort of a lower impact,

understand that impact,

that becomes a really powerful story to tell to consumers.

Yes. All right.

So I want to talk to everybody who's listening right now.

You know,

how we talk about having something that separates you from everybody

else who does what you do.

Let's just stick with candles since we started there and you

guys know that's my favorite product ever in the whole world,

but if you are a candle maker,

whether it's soy candles,

whatever, and you were to get your score here and then

started talking about it in social media or on your website,

because you've gotten your number from Austin,

you know,

how it compares against other candles,

even other candles in your category,

that is a point of separation for you.

That is what I term a unique,

special power,

because you are showing the impact that your products have on

the environment.

Given that it's good.

If you could,

if you got a lower score,

then there may be some things that you would want to

adjust, but this then is a new story that you can

be talking about with potential followers and everybody.

I mean,

I, Austin it's worldwide.

Everybody is interested in knowing that what they're purchasing is having

a positive impact or I'll go the other way,

not negatively impacting the environment.

It's a huge deal right now.

Yeah, totally.

I think that's completely true.

I think the ideal use case of this is you're using

it to go to retailers,

to get distribution,

I think is also a really big one.

We're working with one of them,

the big us retailers at the moment,

and their first use case for this is actually to use

it in range reviews.

And they're actually giving their buyers now,

not just targets in terms of KPIs,

you know,

price ranges and profitability,

but in impact range as well,

and then need to start using this tool to actually only

buy products that are within a certain impact range are they're

getting impacted budgets.

I think that's a really interesting use case,

but for your listeners,

if they can almost reverse that and start to use this,

as you say,

as a really unique selling point to consumers,

but also to retailers to say,

Hey, every consumer wants something that's more sustainable.

Look at this great school that I've got,

you know,

you should write your product Yeah.

For wholesale accounts.

Absolutely. And not many people are talking about it really,

you know,

especially on a smaller scale,

like the independent producers like we are.

So this could again be a huge,

huge advantage for you.

So before we go any further,

because I know this is a question that everyone's thinking in

their mind,

how affordable is this?

If someone would be interested in doing this for their product,

is this like thousands and thousands of dollars?

So I talked about the lifecycle assessment,

which is the standard way of measuring impact.

That's like $30,000

for one product to actually get a life cycle assessment done.

And so even the big brands don't do it because it's,

it becomes way too expensive and time consuming.

And it,

and it's got a limited use case.

What we're trying to do is democratize sustainability.

We're trying to make it accessible for anyone,

whether it's big business or small business,

and obviously ultimately the consumer.

So we've deliberately priced it in a way that makes it

accessible for big brands and small brands,

because obviously big brands that we're working with have tens of

thousands of products.

So there's the multiplier effect.

And then there's obviously small brands.

So it's actually,

because it's a software service,

it's actually $65 per product to have it scored.

And that's an annual subscription for that.

You get the five reports that I mentioned.

So we'll put those different across the five different dimensions.

You get access to the consumer,

which had,

and can use that number.

See if you have your own dashboard.

So it's only $65 per product as an annual subscription.

And that needs to get renewed each year because we actually

update our methodology each year because we want to make sure

that we're using the latest and sustainable science.

So we've deliberately priced it in a way that makes it

really approachable and really affordable for any size business to use

Super affordable Austin.

Okay. So everyone can keep listening because you can afford this

for sure.

Even if you don't do all your products right away.

So, all right.

So it's an annual subscription.

So what do you do?

Just go sign up and then you pay by-product that you're

analyzing. Yep,

exactly Easy,

easy. All right.

So let's pretend I've created a subscription and I make candles.

When I go in there,

what information do I have to have on my end to

be able to get a score?

What types of information do I need to share?

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Yeah. So once you signed up,

you actually have access to the portal.

There's a survey that you need to fill in.

So it's an online survey that it's a really,

it's like a survey wizard in that it adapts the answers

to IGA to actually adapt to what you're doing.

And we break the survey up into nine different sections,

but the major ones are,

you need to know what your materials are.

So you need to,

what, what are you making your product of a split between

the different materials?

The whites are really important.

So what weights,

if you're using,

if you are making a candle to use to continue with

that analogy,

what's what are the materials that go into it?

And if,

if it's a certain way,

what percentage or what in grams that you were actually using,

that's a really important one.

Okay. And so that you guys,

you know,

how we talk about pricing and how you're going to build

up your price.

You should already know all of that because you know how

much material you're using for each individual product,

But you need to know where it comes from those materials.

So if you're sourcing your materials from India versus Bangladesh or

the us or Canada,

that's important for multiple reasons,

obviously, because when we know where it's coming from,

both in terms of the sourcing and the manufacturing,

then we can then start to really accurately approximate the impact.

And that's at a sourcing manufacturing and distribution level.

So the materials and what you're using in the whites,

but importantly,

where those materials are actually coming from.

But what if we're buying from a supplier like on the

retail side,

let's say,

what if they're buying from a local retail shop?

Cause they're just starting.

Or then they go wholesale and they're buying from a supplier

who sells candle supplies.

So they sell the waxes and the materials and all of

that. Do you go back to them and ask them where

it's being sourced from?

Yeah. To get an accurate school,

you need to go back and ask that question and they'll

have that information.

That's an easy way.

We haven't had any instances of brands not being able to

access that information.

So just go back to where you're sourcing it from.

If they're not sourcing it in its raw form,

if it is somewhat made already,

then just go back to where you're sourcing from.

And they'll be able to tell you exactly where they get

it from.

And that's really important to make sure that we give you

an accurate school.

Do you have a database that says this type of wax

supplied by this name company is sourced from,

do you have any of that like established data already?

Not at a company level,

but what we were able to say is the fuel sourcing

wax from this region of the world,

we can actually start to go,

okay. Then the impact of that would be this because we

know the impact on general biodiversity,

their carbon footprint from there.

So we don't know at a company level,

but we know when you can tell us the region where

it comes from,

that's where our tool takes over.

And that's where the technology is really important to be able

to even start to approximate with a high degree of accuracy,

what that impact is.

Okay. All right.

And that's information.

You might take a little bit of legwork,

but that's not hard information to get.

Yeah. That's generally accessible.

And then how the product is made,

who makes it,

you know,

so a lot of yours will be handmade locally.

It is really good,

but if it's not,

where is it actually where's the finished product actually puts together.

And then information about that in terms of it's,

are there any certifications that that factory has?

If not,

then if you just tell us where that factory is and

what it's making again,

then the technology takes over.

It can estimate that impact with a high degree of accuracy.

Got it.

And, oh my gosh,

you're right.

This is something that we would never really be able to

acquire on our own because how would we know any of

that with products made it all the various places.

And so then you take all of the parts of my

candle because I have now supplied you with all of that

information. And that's where your software takes over.

You merge all of that data together.

And that then gives us a score.

Exactly. If the technology works in two ways,

the first one is no brown.

We're working with massive multinational brands and very small bands,

but no brand has the com all the information that is

in the survey.

No, no brand has it cause it's really not,

not so much impossible to get,

but it's difficult to get to the first,

whether the technology works is the parts that you don't have

information on.

The technology can draw upon,

got 31 different databases that we call upon.

Some of them are proprietary that we've developed.

Some of them are external,

but the first one that technology goes,

okay, you're missing this piece of information,

but we know these three other pieces of information.

So we can fill that in with a high degree of

accuracy. So if you don't have all the information,

you can still get an assessment because the technology can fill

in the gaps.

That's the first way that it works.

Once we have all those data points,

then the algorithm goes to work and actually assesses all those

data points across those five dimensions of sustainability that I talked

about and gives you a score for each category.

It gives you the overall score and automates the reports that

you get on your dashboard.

That then give you a really detailed breakdown of where your

impact is.

And then actually starts to make recommendations of how you can

reduce that impact.

But that's the second way the technology works and that's all

automated from outside.

And all of that I'm feeling is something that can be

used in social media for your brand to,

you could even say,

I've just started doing this with my products and like I'm

switching over a product cause it's more like you can take

people on your journey with you.

I was using this wax.

Now I'm switching over to this wax and whatever the story

behind it is,

which again is going to endear people to you because you're

caring about something that they also care about.

That's a really important point because I think as I'm sure

most of your listeners fall into the camp,

they want to be more eco-conscious and most consumers do,

but the barrier has been information.

And I think that's what most consumers want.

Yes. They want to buy products that,

that school score well,

but more important than that,

they just want transparency.

They just want access to the information.

And if you can take your consumers on that journey and

say, look,

we've just done this score.

And we did really well in this and not so good

at this.

And therefore we're making these changes.

It's just that consumers love that transparency and honesty and you

sorta helping help and then go on that journey.

Yeah. I love this.

Okay. So we've talked about that.

We've talked about how this is good to help you get

placement in wholesale.

How else can you give us a couple of examples about

how your clients have been using this to increase their sales

as well?

Other than what we've talked about already?

Yeah. So the two benefits are cost reduction.

So the biggest impact is a cost.

So once you know your impact,

you can actually start to reduce the impact and reduce the

cost. So it works at both ends.

You can actually look at ways you can reduce your impact

and cost by actually having visibility to this information,

which is really important.

And then from a revenue side,

I think we're seeing,

as I talked about increased,

ranging from partners,

so actually being able to use this information to increase range,

but we've also mostly anecdotal is the age.

To be honest with you,

starting to see brands,

come back to us in their own direct to consumer channels

where they're actually starting to increase conversion.

So some brands that have the scoring on some products,

but not in others,

we're starting to see case studies coming back where they're actually

getting an increased conversion on those products that actually have a

sustainability score to it.

I think that makes sense because then it can,

she was just above that level of transparency on it.

Yes, for sure.

So if I were to do two of my products,

this I,

I was subscribed and I did two of my products this

year made adjustments to the materials.

If I make some adjustments,

then I have to send that product through again with the

adjustments. Correct?

Correct. Okay.

And then I get to the point where I'm really excited

about my score.

Maybe it happens right out of the shoot,

who knows?

Right? Cause not all of this is obvious to the point

about sourcing overseas force versus sourcing here.

It's not an obvious choice necessarily,

but let's say I get to a score that I'm really

happy about.

I like how it compares against my industry,

my product industry overall,

is that score then good for years in the future.

Do I have to do it again every year?

How solid is my score?

My investment in my score.

Yeah. So,

so I should say that you can update your score at

any time by updating your inputs.

So if you score your product in may and then you

make adjustments in July,

you just go back in and put those adjustments in your

school. We updated.

So there's no limit to how many times you can go

into the,

your dashboard and update your score.

Do you get charged again?

Nope. Your subscription is for a year.

So you basically can update your school.

You, you,

your situation is to get access to the technology and the

dashboard. How many times do you go back in there and

actually update your materials or your sourcing or your information that

you can do that as many times as you want to

actually update your scores Per product,

per product,

within a calendar year With their county.

And then you can use it obviously in the following years

just by paying that $65 subscription.

So you can update it as many times as you want

during the year,

as you make changes to your product to optimize it,

but you need to pay the annual subscription to continue to

get access to those dashboards and use those assets in your

consumer facing or retailer facing forms.

Okay. Let me clarify.

If I make 10 different sense of candles,

some of my materials change for each scent of candle and

potentially size of candle.

So I'm going to start and I'm going to do three

products right now.

Okay. So I have my three products there.

I get my scores.

I make my adjustments.

Those are only good for the individual size,

the individual scent for those products that I scored on.

I make adjustments.

I get my scores.

And now are you saying I can only promote and talk

about that score while I have this subscription?

Like what if my subscription,

I'm asking you kind of two questions at the same time,

but I think you're going to understand where I'm going with

this. What if now my subscription ends,

I already know my score for those three products,

but I want to do more sense.

I want to know my scores about other sense.

So year two,

I'm not doing those first three products.

I want to do another 3,

4, 10 products.

Can I still promote the scores from that first year,

even though they're not active on your site anymore.

Okay. In a way that's yeah,

because that's obviously what you're paying for.

So you're getting a really accessible solution.

That's $65 per product,

but you need to redo that each year to be able

to leverage it.

And what if someone were,

is that false representation?

Yeah. So that's part of the contract that we sign is

to be able to promote it.

You need to have an active and UpToDate subscription.

So, and we haven't had a case of that yet.

It may happen in the future.

We generally work with brands that want to do the right

thing. So hopefully it's just going to be the fact that

it's lapsed and they needed to have a reminder.

So you need to have be an active subscriber to be

able to use the diary school.

Okay. All right.

Well that makes sense.

And these questions are more for understanding than anything else.

And honestly,

for one product making your money back at $65 should be

a no brainer.

Really? That's the model.

Yeah. Okay.

Some other examples from past clients and what this has done

for them kind of a before,

after. Yeah.

It's mostly those it's retailer conversions to sell through reducing the

impact, but also reducing their costs and starting to see an

increased conversion rate,

the heart,

the thing that we have here,

and we've only been live now for let's call it eight

or nine months.

What we haven't been able to measure is the more of

the intangibles,

like brand resonance and brand impact.

That's something that we've got more longer term studies on,

but there is a,

there is an admitted commercial return.

I think most of your listeners,

I think we'll be able to almost get the benefit back

just by being able to reduce their cost of their products

and the impact of their products.

They'll learn the revenue upside.

So there's multiple ways that it can benefit from a commercial

sense. Got it.

Right. And you know what?

Most of the people who are listening,

if they're following what I'm suggesting is,

you know,

they're a specialist in a certain type of a product.

So unless you are a gift store where you have tons

of products that you're carrying,

but if you are a maker,

then you are a specialist in candles or pampering products or

baking. So it's not like you're going to have this huge,

numerous skew of products that you would be having to analyze.

So this feels very,

very doable Austin,

for sure.

And we also work with retailers too.

So your manufacturers,

but you know,

we've got a couple of very big retailers that we work

with. They then work back with the brands to get the

schools because we ultimately,

we do needs to get the information from the brands.

But a lot of times retailers are our introduction to those

brands because the retailers want their scores on their website for

the retail store to be a point of difference.

So it can actually work for that at a retail and

a brand level.

Oh, interesting.

Okay. And do you have anywhere I'm thinking the answer is

no, but do you have anywhere all the products that you've

reviewed and people have given permission to show their scores like

any like master place We dine actually,

it's a really good question.

So we did have a marketplace that had all the products

on it originally,

but I think as what we found was the demand was

coming from outside the marketplace from bigger brands that didn't necessarily

want to be on a marketplace,

but wanted to get access to the technology.

So we've done that we have,

that is something that we've thought about doing is just having,

not a commercial place,

but just a catalog of places where all the products we've

scored are.

So consumers can find them.

We don't have it at the moment,

but it's a really good idea that we've talked about for

sure. Well,

it's only a thought as a consumer.

Now, if I wanted to go and be able to get

direct access to products that have,

and people would have,

and like,

I'm thinking if my product's scoring low,

I wouldn't want it there yet.

So it would be a permission-based thing,

but that would also be a reason why apart from my

own needs,

but to be able to get,

to want to be on that list,

you know,

I'm going to get it up kind of as another motivation

to make your product as sustainable as possible.

Yeah. And again,

we're not in the business of naming and shaming brands.

That's not our approach for brands.

We really,

as support too,

we're a solutions based tool.

How can we help brands make better products that are less

impactful and how can we help?

Could she make better decisions?

That's really at the core of our company.

Absolutely. It is so exciting because finally,

now we can figure it out,

especially on a level like we are here as makers.

How would you have ever been able to come across that

you think,

you know,

but some of our assumptions aren't necessarily accurate either now,

not only can we know,

but we can add a layer of credibility because we can

have a score.

Think that's amazing.

So, all right,

Austin, any final words for our listeners here?

Yeah, but suggesting it just trial it,

give it a go.

I think,

as you say,

depending on how big your range is,

it doesn't need to be all your products.

But I think if you can actually go through the,

probably that we always talk about understanding or certainly for the

bigger brands that we work with,

but you really want to stand up the process,

you go through the outcome and how scalable it is.

And so I think starting out by scoring a few products

is a good way to understand it and then go from

there, but just jump in the net will appear,

give it a guy with a few products and I'm sure

you'll be happy with the results.

Absolutely fabulous Austin.

And where would people go to learn more and to jump

on the network?

Yeah. So our website is diarized.io.io.

So that's diarized with a Zed.

So diarize.io,

or just drop me an email directly@austinatdiarize.com.

Perfect. And as you know,

there'll be show notes page that will give you all of

the information.

So if you didn't catch it here,

definitely jump over to the show notes.

And when you do this,

let us know if you're going to do your product,

reach out.

I want to know what you're doing.

You don't have to tell me your score,

but I'd really love feedback on this because I think it

is so important and it gives us just another way to

stand out in the crowd.

So Austin,

amazing product.

I am so glad to know you now.

And I am so appreciative.

You've given us so much information and I'm really excited about

the future for you and for day rise.

Thanks. It's been a real pleasure.

One of the things I found most interesting is that the

sourcing decisions you make that may seem harmful could actually be

better than what you think would be the more eco-friendly alternatives.

I'm thinking now specifically about when you source products overseas,

which many of us do?

I mean,

even if you get your product elements locally through a wholesaler,

many of them are still made in another country and that

may not be all bad.

You just have to do your research to know.

Another thing I really appreciated is to find that analyzing a

few products is so affordable.

It makes all the sense in the world.

To me to learn about the sustainability of at least one

or two of the products that you create before you move

on to your next activity today,

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Got a really fun post in there.

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