380 – Flipping His Primary Focus from Rabbi to Jewelry Maker with Doug Heifetz of Lost & Forged

Gift biz unwrapped episode 380.

These independent things that I was doing were really the way

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Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

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Even though the episode number is 380 by my calculation,

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Today, I have a really strong show lined up for you.

You're going to hear how Doug reflected on his life and

thought about where he was spending his time.

Then he did some rearranging.

Let's be honest too often.

We live to work instead of working to live,

putting yourself at the top and doing things that inspire and

fuel you makes for happy and rich days.

Now, not at some point in the future.

If the lesson Doug demonstrates with life overall,

isn't enough.

He also gives us detail on how he identified his new

path. This is the perfect case study.

If you will,

on how to start and grow your handmade business,

allowing your interests and passions to be included in your life

every single day.

Our guest today is Doug Heifetz of lost and forged.

Doug creates his artwork to celebrate surprising transformations and to make

upcycling irresistible through his small studio,

operation lost and forged.

He offers a wide range of original jewelry,

accessories, Judaica items and decor pieces all made by hand from

antique silverware and other reclaimed metal objects.

And since then Doug has shipped his pieces to buyers in

dozens of countries overseas and all 50 us states.

Doug lives in silver spring,

Maryland with his two children.

He was a full-time rabbi of a local synagogue for 11

Doug, welcome to the gift biz on wrapped podcast.

I'm so happy to be here.

I am really excited to dive into your story.

You got a lot of interesting things going on that I

am planning to uncover here,

But First,

before we do that,

I'd love for you to describe yourself in a little bit

of a different way,

kind of a creative angle,

which I know you're all about creative that is through motivational

candle. So if you were to make a candle that just

really resonates with you,

what would it look like by coloring quote My candle?

It's such a great question.

First of all,

but now it makes me actually want to go make candles.

I am not a candle maker,

but it's piqued my interest,

but the candle that I would make for my motivational candle

would be on the bright side of a coppery orange.

And it would be metallic.

Orange is playful and energizing.

And my work really draws on playful,

whimsical energy.

It would be metallic because metal is always connected to the

earth. First of all,

and metal can always be reshaped to me.

Metal stands for the opportunity to transform,

to transform ourselves,

to transform our world,

certainly to transform a piece of metal.

For starters,

the quote on my candle would come from Al Hirschfeld,

who was a cartoonist caricaturists.

And he said,

artists are just children who refuse to put down their Crans.

And to me to really get into the spirit of my

work, especially when I'm creating something new,

I need that playful spirit and that confidence.

That's not about being judged.

It's not about thinking about how it will be critically received,

but about drawing on a playful spirit and doing something whimsical,

doing something new,

doing something that intrigues me and then gradually making it better.

I love that visual too,

of artists,

all being children who don't put down their crayons,

because you know how they talk about the act of creating

and making does something to you inside.

Like it affects your soul and your spirit.

And it's kind of one in the same.

We used to be so lighthearted and carefree as children.

And to be able to bring that back to ourselves as

an adult is I think a lot of reasons why people

start hobbies and then go on and want to share what

they're making to the world.

Absolutely. And the first thing that I caught when you were

talking was that idea of transformation.

We never get too old to be able to transform ourselves

in what we do either,

which I know is going to be part of your story.

So I'm just going to go with that.

That's a great segue actually,

because you did a little transforming yourself to get to Loston

forge didn't you?

Absolutely. I mean,

I think I've always been somebody who likes something new who

likes a sense of newness.

And so,

yes, I mean,

I was the full-time rabbi of a local synagogue and in

most ways it was a job that I loved and that

I felt good about,

but I not only create something new,

I crave doing something more independent,

more entrepreneurial,

more of my own imagination,

something that I could build from the ground up,

which I never really felt like I had the opportunity to

do as a rabbi with a long established synagogue.

When you first started as a rabbi,

did you think that that was what you were going to

do for your whole life?

I thought probably so.

Yeah. Okay.

And then at what point was it that you started thinking,

wait, this isn't completely fulfilling me.

I need to add in or do something else.

Cause you were probably thinking just else not instead of at

that point.

And I think probably around that seven year mark,

or maybe eight years in,

I was craving something that I could build that was entrepreneurial,

that was of my own imagination.

And that people wanted that people would be drawn from many,

many different walks of life and from many different parts of

the world to be part of,

or to buy,

you know,

the value and want to buy it directly.

That appealed to me.

So you already knew you wanted it to be something tangible,

something that you would make?

Yes. I created having something that I created that was tangible.

I didn't immediately that it had to be like a product

or an artistic creation.

And so I was playing with various software ideas,

but I was drawn to do something that was more independent

and more of my own building of my own imagination.

Okay. All right.

And so how did you land on what you're doing?

Okay. So you said you were thinking software,

take us through a little bit of that discovery time.

Okay. So there were a few things that I was putting

some energy into and some of them intersected with the congregation.

Although I ended up feeling like these weren't what the congregation

was wanting and needing.

So I made a few mobile games for iPhones and Android

through the synagogue was a religious school class with another student

who was interested.

And these were games that belong to the synagogue that had

a certain degree of success,

but I didn't have technical coding skills as a game developer.

And also eventually it came back to the fact that I

wasn't really a gamer and these were things that I was

passionate about.

Although it was a fun idea.

I had a business partner,

we had a very ambitious software project to build a multi-faith

web service for the study and discussion of the sacred writings

of the world's different religious traditions.

And that was very exciting.

I had one other software project at some point at the

same time I had started to make things.

I was late at night watching my shows,

the rest of the family was asleep and I wanted something

to do with my hands that would be productive,

but that wouldn't feel like that wasn't taking out my laptop

to reply to messages from the congregation.

I want it to be in a more relaxed or more

imaginative mode than that.

And I started bending silverware.

I remembered that once upon a time in college,

I had a roommate who bent some stainless steel forks from

the cafeteria into very rough bracelets.

And I thought,

maybe I'll try that.

And I started bending some forks into crazy shapes and I

looked online also to see what other people thought,

well, maybe other people are doing this.

Let me see what I can find.

And I was blown away by what I saw and every

single thing that I saw I wanted to try to make.

And pretty soon I started having a lot more ideas about

what I wanted to make things that I hadn't seen.

I had a vision about it that was motivated,

that was playful and had to work to start catching my

skills up to my vision.

Cause I had all these things I wanted to make and

started learning,

started playing with.

It started also spending money on tools on materials and started

posting on Facebook.

Just these crazy things I was making.

And some people I knew were starting to ask where they

could buy them.

And I wasn't sure,

but I thought about it and I was already spending money

on tools and on materials.

And I thought,

well, you know,

maybe I can sell things.

And that will be a way to recoup some of the

money that I'm spending or maybe make a little bit.

And that's essentially how lost and forged was born.

And in the meantime had a software project I was working

on that was only remotely connected to the congregation.

I have started to make things with my hands and sell

these things.

And soon these independent things that I was doing were really

the way I wanted to spend my time.

And eventually I thought,

yeah, I want to be free to pursue these things.

And I want to serve the congregation or I don't want

to do them a disservice.

And it became clear to me that there was a different

direction I had to go in.

But when that paycheck stopped,

it's great getting a paycheck.

And that paycheck stopped.

I gave the congregation a year notice it's a big deal,

hiring a new rabbi for them.

And when that paycheck stopped,

there was really just one of these entrepreneurial ideas that I

was working on that was making money.

And that was lost in forge.

And I quickly realized this is what I put my energy

into. And it has continued to be exciting and a source

of growth and of fun and of inspiration and of making

it a living Well,

Doug, it's such a good story and I appreciate you going

through all of the background to this because I think it

will serve and help a lot of people who are listening

because we've got a lot of listeners,

you guys out there who know who you are,

who are doing other jobs,

but have that passion kind of like you did in the

beginning, there was more you wanted to do in your life,

but it wasn't like you automatically knew right away what it

was going to be.

You tested out a couple of very different options,

right? Like the online gaming software and apps versus something that

was more with your hands.

So it's not like you automatically land on that thing right

in the beginning.

And your story is a great demonstration of that.

So thank you for sharing all of that.

Two other points about the story that I want to highlight

is when you saw that you wanted to do the four

gene, I guess I'll call it by the way I was

chuckling when you said,

so I just started bending silverware.

Oh. I just like went to the drawer and pulled out

a fork and started bending or something.

It was so funny when you said that,

but you made the point that you needed to go online

and learn more about how you could actually do what you

were envisioning.

Absolutely. So share a little bit about where you educated yourself

and how you educated yourself.

Cause people need to understand that if you have a dream

and a vision,

you don't necessarily have all the skills yet.

You need to do some research and educating to get to

where you want to be going.

Right? Absolutely.

We're fortunate that you can learn how to do almost anything

online. I mean,

YouTube videos were hugely helpful.

Now. Some of them people were using some crazy methods that

didn't work for me,

but there was a huge amount of YouTube videos or in

just looking at photographs of what people had done quickly.

I started realizing though that what I was doing with these

things, I was creating with my hands,

really, I was going into a craft of being a metal

Smith, and I could learn from other people who were using

specifically silverware,

but I quickly also wanted to learn from serious jewelers.

At some point I'd been making things for,

I don't know,

five or six months,

and it ended up taking an eight session intro.

So silver smithing class that was mostly focused on jewelry on

what craft jewelry,

but also moving toward the fine jewelry.

And that was hugely helpful because I started learning much more

refined techniques and tools instead of sort of home Depot tools,

which some of which I still use for my metal work

and for making jewelry,

but also started learning a much,

much more refined set of tools and techniques that were just

so much more fine and attentive to small detail than I

had ever imagined.

It challenged me in new ways,

taught me to set gemstones or started to learn,

to set gemstones and just really brought my technique and moved

my technique and vision in a whole new direction.

Well, and probably also helped you define your style,

the technique and the quality of your items.

And when you talk about,

you know,

there were a lot of things that you were seeing that

weren't necessarily what you wanted to do.

Some of those things might have inspired your vision too.

So you're taking a looking at other things and then making

it your own after that.

Oh, absolutely.

All right.

And I've already had a chance to look at your website

and see your products.

I also want to add to that,

that there is a group called flat wearable.

It's a small company that makes tools specifically for silverware jewelry

and they have an awesome online Facebook group.

And that's always been a great source of learning and of

sharing for me.

So it's something that much more specific than just jewelry,

very specific to the tools and techniques that are really about

working with flatware.

Oh, I love that you shared that With that and then

delving more into fine jewelry techniques and a combination of those

things have both been hugely helpful.

Yeah. Okay.

All right.

Wonderful. So continuing on with your journey.

So at some point you decided then maybe I'm enjoying doing

this more or would like to flip the weight of what

I'm doing versus being a rabbi.

So talk us through how that transition happened.

I am a rabbi,

both in my training,

my identity,

and I still work as a rabbi,

but in a much lower key way,

much less amount of my time.

Would it be right to say that you flipped,

like it used to be that being a rabbi and all

that you did with that was your major thing and now

lost and forged is your major focus?

Absolutely. So at some point I felt like a rabbi who

moonlit as an entrepreneur and as a metal Smith.

And now I'm a metal Smith who moonlights as a rabbi

in terms of my professional time.

Well, it sounds like you enjoy both.

And so this was just readjusting to fit what your desires

were. Absolutely.

Okay. And so you said you gave them notice A year,

A year notice.

Well, you know,

and I was working,

I think I had a three-year contract with the synagogue at

that point.

So one year it felt like an appropriate amount of time.

Okay. So just a side note has nothing to do with

further conversations,

but I'm just curious.

So are you still working with that same synagogue now?

No different synagogue.

I mean,

I have a fund connection with that synagogue.

I keep in touch with people from there,

but it's a different synagogue that I'm working.

Got it.

Okay. So what did you do then during that year to

prepare yourself?

So you already made the plan and I was a long

time planner too.

When I started my first business,

I really looked at it planned,

got everything together,

et cetera.

What types of things were you doing during that year as

you were equipping yourself?

Quote, unquote for more full-time lost and forged Many things.

I remember taking some online classes through creative life,

just self-paced Where they business type classes,

Business classes for makers,

Got It for makers and designers.

So that was very helpful.

And that was really helping me to think more about part

of that was preparation to sell wholesale.

And that was the way that I first wanted to build.

At least as far as lost and forge went.

That was the way that I really wanted to make it

bigger, to grow through wholesale.

And that wasn't as successful as I wanted,

but I think it helped me straighten out my pricing.

It helped me think through my pricing much more clearly.

I think there were a lot of things that were helpful

about that,

even though the wholesale direction that I was planning to go

was not sufficient in the end.

Okay. And were you doing that during this year period?

This transition period.

I was certainly taking some of those classes and thinking about

how to build my business in a wholesale direction.

Okay. So you had the vision of wholesale and then down

the road because you would test everything right.

And see what works and it's different for different products,

different areas of the country.

What works for one person doesn't necessarily always work for somebody

else, but these are all options for everybody.

Of course.

So to help our listeners who are just starting out,

you're talking about training and learning both on technique in making

your product,

and then also getting some guidance,

thoughts about business development.

What specifically did you do as you were starting lost and

forged? What were the very first steps you took?

I mean,

I thought of a name And where did this come from?

I mean,

the first thing that I did before I thought about it

as a business,

I just created things and I shared them with the world.

I was excited about them.

I think for a lot of people,

there is a hesitancy to share.

And for me it's the opposite.

I'm always very excited to share.

Like I can't wait to share what I've done.

Oh my gosh,

Doug, I am so glad you brought that up because you

are absolutely right.

I think people want to like stay in a private box

where people that they know don't see them until they're successful,

but the people who you know and who already care about

you, family and friends are the best people to try things

out with because you already have a relationship with them.

The worst thing that's going to happen is it's not going

to work.

Right. And that's fine.

They still love you.

Everything is fine.

But you were talking about in the very beginning before we

are at the question,

I'm asking you now,

when you start your name,

when you figure out what the name of the business is

going to be,

you already told me that you had people who were interested

in buying your product Early on.

People were buying From early on.

And that validation that what you're making people have an interest

in. If it's the right audience they're willing to buy.

So validating is absolutely the best thing that you can do.

And I've been trying to drive this into everybody and you're

a demonstration of doing it perfectly.

So before you even start your business,

before you even name it,

your seeing that there's a market for your product.

So that's amazing.

Okay. Take it away.

I just had to interject there.

You're reinforcing something I talk about regularly.

So I had to say that.

Yes. So that's always been super important.

I mean,

the sharing with people has always fueled what I do and

has been part of the most important inspiration.

So I was making things I was sharing.

I was learning to make broadening the types of things I

made learning to make them better.

And eventually started because I was selling things started to envision

it because I was selling things.

And because I was interested in entrepreneurship and in my own

path, as an entrepreneur started thinking about it as a business,

I picked a name,

I thought at some point in that next year,

I mean,

this is still a couple of years before I quit.

My day job.

That's incorporated as a registered,

as an LLC,

started an Etsy shop,

eventually started a website and was also doing more craft shows

and art shows.

Okay. That's a lot,

that's a lot right there.

Okay. So you registered as an LLC,

which was fabulous.

How did you decide on your name Last and forged?

To me,

it was the simplest phrase that described what I do both.

I mean,

you know,

it's a little bit of a pun.

It sounds like lost and found,

but I'm dealing with old objects that I'm transforming with metal

work techniques.

And so did you check to make sure that no one

else had the name that you could get the URL,

like all that kind of thing,

All of that.

And you were lucky,

which means it was meant to be Doug.

Well, and I think I wouldn't have gone very far with

the name if I wouldn't have,

I was busy checking those things as I thought of the

name. Right.

And I lived in a space where I was excited about

doing those kinds of things.

What was that craving at that stage of my life?

Building something new,

building something from the ground up sort of choosing,

helping to choose or formulate its identity.

I had almost the compulsive tendency to look up domain names,

things like that.

Got it.

For any business idea that I had.

And here was a business idea that was,

you know,

where I was already busy making things.

So of course I was going to think about its identity

and its name and not go very far with that name.

If it weren't sort of available,

if it were heavily associated with another brand or business or,

you know,

Very smart,

because then there's the confusion.

And if you have a name that someone else has,

or you have to add the,

you know,

how people will add numbers or put underline marks in between

words and all of that,

that just causes confusion.

So that was really,

really smart to do.

I think it would be possible to put too much energy

into that too early.

You don't want to create,

like you said,

validating is more important than sort of brand identity at first.

Yeah. I mean,

I say that and I really wanted to emphasize it because

I'll find a number of people who the very first thing

they do is decide the name.

Cause that's a fun project to do,

you know,

it's very visionary and all that,

Right? Yeah.

But then sometimes they land on a name and go through

LLC registration or whatever.

And then two years later,

their name is completely disconnected from what they're actually selling.

So then they have to go back and do that.

So that's the reason it's so important to wait.

You can still be searching and thinking,

but hold off on doing anything first.

Right. I guess I sort of stumbled into those steps in

the right order,

I guess.

No, you're amazing.

You are amazing.

So I would love to chat both about your online presence

and the craft shows,

but I want to take them separately.

So let's start with the online presence.

So the first thing you did there was Etsy I'm thinking

versus your own website.

Well, some of them are around the same time.

I both started my Etsy shop and started an early version

of my website.

It was a WordPress website I believe.

And it was very short lived,

I mean,

ever since.

like in June and then in the fall,

I think I both started my Etsy shop at around the

same time,

built a WordPress website,

which I kind of knew how to do.

Why did you do both at the same time?

I don't even remember.

I mean,

I built my own website.

Yeah, I guess so,

you know,

I was excited about creating and launching a business.

I think I kinda knew how to build a WordPress website

and it seemed doable.

And then Etsy does a great job of making it really

easy to start your shop or your store or whatever they

call it.

The tech skills that you need to get up and running

on Etsy are negligible.

They make it very approachable and they're amazing at that.

And they also bring you at that time,

maybe still,

you could get traffic on Etsy.

Are you on both still today?

I still am on both.

I put a lot more effort into my own website,

but I still am on Etsy and appreciate Betsy for a

lot of reasons.

Well, and I would say that there's different audiences that see

you on different places too.

There are people that will run into you on Etsy who

may never discover your website first,

you know,

because they're on Etsy searching.

So two different places online,

two different audiences,

two sets of opportunity.

Absolutely. It was a long time before a stranger would discover

my website,

right. Or strangers would find me on Etsy from early on.

I mean,

I think it took me a couple of months to make

the first sale on Etsy,

but that was a long before I made a first sale

to a stranger on my own website.

And it just couldn't have happened on my own.

You build a website,

even if it's an amazing website,

nobody will find it at first.

You have to send people there.

You have to get people over there.

You have to send people there and then eventually can build

up ways that it can bring in more than just the

people you send Right Then.

So that WordPress website was very short-lived.

I built on Shopify instead.

And that's still what I'm using.

Amen. That Shopify is my go-to and suggestion for everyone.

So I'm glad you said that I actually have one website.

My gift is unwrapped website is a WordPress website.

You know,

the one connected with the podcast and my other business is

a Shopify site.

So I have experience with both,

but love Shopify.

And I'm thrilled that you are reinforcing that.

I think if somebody wants to do e-commerce,

you know,

I'm not just a website where you show things and can,

you know,

if you just want a website,

that's a gallery,

I'm sure there's a lot of good ways to do that.

But if you want an e-commerce website,

unless Shopify is just hugely helpful.

Yes, absolutely.

For sure.

And in having looked at your website,

I also love,

and I think it's a great practice that you also show

the shows that you're going to be at.

That's all listed on the website and we'll start talking about

the shows in a minute.

You also have a blog there,

which I find very interesting.

And I took a peek at a couple of the articles.

You take a broad range to what a blog could be

like. I've seen that you put the press,

the articles that have been in the press as part of

your blog.

I also saw a couple of videos there,

right? Yes,

absolutely. What is your thinking in terms of what the blog

does to reinforce the business?

Isn't this a fascinating conversation.

We're going to take a short break here and then come

right back.

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Blog is usually helpful.

A huge part of the online orders that I get are

connected to the blog.

It has taken years and it's still a work in progress,

but the blog is one of the best ways to build

SEO, to build search engine optimization.

So you can get found when people search for things online.

When people go to Google or the other search engines,

probably the single biggest source of website traffic to my website

now comes from search from people,

searching on Google,

mostly looking for spoon ranks,

but searching for other things too.

And starting to blog about those is the way that you

tell Google and the world that you have something to say

about whatever the topic is,

Right. And a blog is new content all the time.

Yeah, that's amazing.

So what is your thinking?

Do you have like a strategy of how often you put

up a blog or like,

how are you deciding what you'll turn into a blog or

whether you'll create a blog,

a new article or a video?

Is that part of a master plan?

Be honest.

I Don't know if I heard that hesitation there Masterplan sun's

bigger and more organized than I actually am.

So I mean,

at some combination of when I need to and when I

can. Okay.

All right.

But you definitely see the importance because I see some consistency

there. Absolutely.

So the other big way that I send people to my

website is through my email list.

And when I have something that I want to email out,

if it's not like a product or a collection,

when I send an email to my customer list or to

my list,

and I try to email them about once a week,

I need to have somewhere to send them every time I

send an email,

I want to have a place to send them.

And basically I want it to be somewhere on my website.

And so often it's when I think about where to send

them on my website,

I realized I need a new blog entry.

I needed a new place to send them because if it's

not a product page or a collection page,

and then I need a place to send them.

And likely that is going to be a blog article.

When I create a new blog entry,

a new blog post that's often my answer to where to

send my list on my website.

Okay. So your email is kind of the trigger reminder Very

often. Like,

oh, I can't just send this email out without someplace to

send them on my website.

So the blog entry.

So that's why,

you know,

for example,

when there's press,

I'll at least put some of that press on the blog

post as a place to send them,

you know,

oh, here's this new article.

I could just send them to that media outlet.

But I really,

it takes a lot of work to drive traffic,

to send my list,

to check something out online that takes a lot of work.

And at the end,

I don't just want to send them to somewhere else on

the internet.

I want to send them to my website then maybe from

there to the magazine or newspaper or whoever was kind enough

to publish something about me.

Right. First I went on them to my website to check

it out.

Yeah, no,

that's an excellent,

excellent point.

And I think you're the first person I've ever seen really

doing it that way,

because what you've done is you've taken pictures of the article

and then have it as an image in a blog.

Great. Maybe a little bit of the taxed separately,

but yeah.

So people can check out some of it and then if

they want the full article,

usually they can click over to the publication.

Yeah. That's perfect.

Do you ever talk about like,

oh, I was so excited to be featured.

I was a little nervous.

It's the first time I've ever done a television interview or

something like,

do you ever give any like personal background to the article?

Hm, interesting.

I don't know if I have,

that would be a great thing to do.

Yeah. Just a little behind the scenes of how you felt.

And then look at resulted in this article,

how exciting and fun read more wherever.

That's a great idea.

I like it.

It's just so interesting.

Always for other people to hear how these things develop and

how they happen,

or even that they called you up of the blue and

you were so shocked or whatever,

I don't know.

And you were actually working on this ring,

go see the ring I was working on and here's the

link. Yes.

And my,

and my blog posts at the end,

there's always linked to different products and things that people can

check out.

Right. But sometimes there might be a better way to sometimes

those products are closely related to the article and sometimes there's

not. And there's pure for me to share more of that.

Yeah, no,

I love that you're doing a blog overall.

Cause I don't think a lot of people are considering a

blog and what it really can do and how it can

benefit a product based business.

So I absolutely love that.

Yeah. So one of the other directions that blog posts get

formulated is answering questions that I see people have often or

something that is people often,

you know,

I get so many questions about spoon ring sizes.

What happens if it doesn't fit?

How do I know what size to order?

And so one of my best read blog posts is about

spoon, ring sizes and sizing and my resizing process and things

like that.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yeah. Or One of my most,

well trafficked blog posts is about the story of spoon rings.

So the history of spoon ring,

so the meaning of spoon rings,

something like that.

And I don't remember how I thought to create that blog

post. I don't remember if it was doing research,

figuring out what are questions people are asking.

But anyway,

I wrote a blog post about the history of spoon rings

and that's a great way that people come into my website

from search,

from search engines.

It's clearly serving you well.

And it's evergreen content.

That article is relevant forever.

Absolutely. Okay.

Let's flip over now and talk a little bit about the

art shows that you're doing.

So you do,

it looks like fine.

Art shows mostly,

Mostly a variety.

So some are sort of artisan maker or craft or shows,

but more of them are well,

there's both more of them are art shows,

more of them are juried art shows.

Okay. All right.

Let's not even talk about the fact that there was a

time here in our very recent past that we couldn't do

shows very well.

Let's just talk about shows full-blown shows.

Okay. Sure.

Share with us a little bit about what your booth looks

like just as a scription of your booth.

I basically have two booth setups,

but let's talk about my favorite.

The one I think of as my main one,

I sometimes call it my mobile boutique.

I don't know if you've seen pictures or videos.

It's unusual.

I did see that now that you brought it up,

I did see that.

Okay. Share it with everybody.

Yes. And it lives on a trailer and I tell it

with my minivan and it fits.

And then,

but when I use it,

I take the trailer out from under it and set it

directly on the ground.

It's almost like a small cabin.

And the front of it is two doors,

two big doors,

like big barn doors that I can remove.

So when I open up for business,

I take the doors off.

The thing is setting on the ground.

It has like a six inch step up from the pavement.

Now, when it's up on the trailer,

it's like two and a half feet up from the pavement.

And I figured out a way so that I can boost

it up off the trailer,

roll the trailer out from underneath it,

park the trailer somewhere else,

or take it home for the weekend and set the boots

down on the ground.

I develop the concept on my own.

And then a friend who's a master carpenter initially did a

lot of the construction.

And eventually I worked with him and alongside him and started

doing the modifications and things on my own eventually.

So virtually there's less set up then,

apart from positioning,

the mobile boutique,

there's less setup.

Cause all of that can just stay there.

Right? You still have to set up all the displays with

the product,

but all of those,

No, no,

no. Most of the displays are a fixed to the shelves.

So I've shelves and like say necklace,

busts bring stands.

Those are permanently attached.

I'm in,

I can move them,

but they're attached with screws and things to the shelves.

And then I can leave a lot of my products on

them Really.

And they don't rattle around.

They just need small adjustment.

Oh they rattle around.

But they don't.

Yeah. I mean,

correct. Okay.

So like the necklaces I'll pin them onto the bust so

they don't fly off in transit.

Oh my gosh.

And then I take out the pins that would show so

that they're just jarring.

And so they can come off easily when people want to

try them on or by them.

That sounds like a dream because set up can be so

tedious. Especially when you have smaller pieces,

lots of smaller pieces.

Right. And I want to show like 250 pieces.

Whoa I'm in a lot of them are rings.

A lot of them are small and they have to show,

it's not like they're in a bin.

I mean,

everybody has their different pinpoints during setup.

So I don't want to dismiss the work that other people

do, but a painter or a 2d artists can have a

bin of prints that people leave through and that's fine,

but I don't display anything that way.

Each piece shows or it's just in storage or it's just

in reserve and then to set up each piece so that

it showed it was killing me and it was driving me

crazy. And then the wind would come and knock everything over

and I just couldn't eat this.

And it was also hard to think about ways to show

that were like true to me and true to my brand

to do that.

I was creating sort of big ambitious displays that were really

difficult to carry around and really difficult set up.

And still the wind would sometimes knock things over and it

was grueling and it was hard and it was driving me

crazy. And I just thought I can't do this.

There has to be a better way.

Yeah, for sure.

Okay. So if anyone wants to see your mobile boutique,

where would an image be that they could say You can

go to my website,

lost and forge.com

and then I need to make it easier to find.

But if you dig through my blog,

you'll find a couple of articles about it.

And then also on my email list at the bottom of

EV there's sort of a collage,

like a four photo collage at the bottom and one of

them is always of the boom.

I think that's probably where I saw it actually.

Oh, maybe.

So The belief at the bottom of the email anyway.

Okay. So our time is starting to wind down here,

but I'd like for you to talk a little bit about

the way you work,

your trade shows,

like how,

when people come into the boutique,

how you interact with people,

just any advice,

suggestions, what you found to be great for you in terms

of success,

with connecting with potential customers and people who actually purchased during

the show.

Okay. So first of all shows are,

I mean,

as much as I can talk about the difficult to shows

or just grades is my chance to share and to show

off. And it's tons of fun.

And I learned early on that started to really inspire me

and help me to take my work much more seriously,

seeing how people responded to my pieces in person.

And so I want to be ready.

I want to be,

I say hello to everybody.

I mean,

occasionally if it's so crowded or something,

maybe somebody comes in and I don't get to.

But my goal is always to say hello to everybody,

talk to everybody and try to engage with every person who

comes in.

I want to show them,

I want to do as much as I can early on

to help them understand what my work is about.

Ideally from before they even get into the booth.

So signage is really important.

Both signage that people can see from far away and signage,

people see close up that explain different aspects of it that

might not be immediately clear.

I try to immediately show people something that I think will

surprise them.

I expect people to have often seen spoon ring,

something made from the handle of the spoon,

but I try to show them something that they haven't seen

before. So a ring that's made from an entire spoon,

for example,

an attire,

usually very small spoon.

And usually people haven't seen that before or a ring that

is not only a spoon room,

but that has gemstones real gemstones that have set as a

Juul or wood and people very often,

haven't seen that before or something else.

Like, you know,

one of my candle sticks where I show them this twisty

looking candle stick that looks like a tree.

It has tree roots at the bottom.

And I say,

this candle stick used to be a whole dinner fork until

I transformed it.

And partly because that's the fun for me.

I mean,

I get to see how they respond.

And people often respond with this surprise and delight or a

double-take that is just tons of fun.

You know,

that fuels me.

And anyway,

these are ways that I immediately try to show them something

they haven't,

that both educates them about my work is,

and hopefully gives them a sense of surprise and delight or

a fun,

and it's serving them and it's serving me and it's educating

them about my work.

And in some sense,

like I'm there to sell and the sales are extremely important

to me,

but in the moment it's not super important that the person

buys something I just want to share.

And I want them to have fun at my booth and

to see something that they enjoy and find interesting.

If people eventually almost everybody who spends time there,

I do ask them to sign up for my email list

usually. And if people ask me for a business card,

I do not have them there.

I don't have business cards there.

Is there a reason?

Yes. Because,

well, the first time was because I forgot my business cards,

but I had for any number of weeks or months that

shows and I was doing more small,

like farmer's markets and little craft shows back then.

So I was doing more of them and I had been

trying to get people to sign up for my email list.

And basically they wouldn't visibly were like,

I have your card.

Oh, it's a nice excuse for them not to share their

email. Right.

Right. So one day I actually went to the trouble.

If I had an iPad that was just there.

So people would sign up and nobody would do it.

Or if they did,

it felt like they were doing the big favor,

Which then kind of decreases all of the Goodwill from your

initial interactions with them A little bit.

Right. It wasn't working.

People would take business cards and maybe they would get in

touch with me.

Probably not.

I mean,

you know,

when I take a business card off and I lose it

and what this one day I forgot my business cards or

they were in the car and I didn't have time to

get them because the show was starting or something.

And that day,

way more people signed up for my email list.

There you go.

I made it a practice of never having business cards in

the booth.

Now it's like,

I'm responding to their requests.

People say,

do you have a card?

Or how can I get in touch with you?

I asked them to sign up and I'm being responsive to

their need.

Oh yeah.

You're flipping the script there.

And I also eventually started also saying,

well, you get a 15% discount.

You know,

you'd get a little discount if you sign up for my

list. Yeah.

That's also motivating,

but right.

So yes.

Do you ever do like a drawing for a free piece

or something if they sign up?

Not as part of the signup,

but I have done that as I've had social media contest

where I have a giveaway.

I see.

Okay. Once I had something where once I had a fun

social media contest where people could suggest the engraving for a

ring and I would pick my favorite of them and that

person would get the spoon ring with the free engraving on

the inside or outside as they wanted.

I gotcha.

But, but that was not for email list development.

Not for signing up.

Correct. All right.

Let's just talk for one more minute.

Any other tips or thoughts for your booth interaction with customers?

What else is working for you?

The no business cards is a great tip because that's so

easy. Right?

And I think for a lot of,

most people aren't willing to do that.

Every, I don't know,

everybody's somewhat different needs,

right? For me,

it works better if I just don't have them there.

What else we'll be ready to engage,

have displays that eventually.

And this can be hard.

I think,

create displays that reflect your brand.

So for me,

it's about metalwork.

It's about reuse.

It's about,

there is sort of a handmade look to it.

Those things are important,

but also it has to be doable.

It can't be onerous.

It can't just be so burdensome.

Ideally, you know,

make it a place that's fun for you to be Right.

Welcoming and fun where people want to come in.

Right. I mean,

I could spend days talking about my booth and what's worked

and what hasn't.

I mean,

I have security cameras because I want people to be able

to try.

I don't find jewelers often or hi,

Angela is often can be behind glass.

Most of my pieces can't because I want people to feel

it should be trying them on.

I mean,

people come in and try on dozens of spoon rings.

And then also part of the fun of my business is

that I resized the spoon rings right.

For them right there on the spot.

And for a lot of people,

it's the closest they ever get to working metal Smith,

creating something for them.

Cause I'm resizing it for them on the spot using these

goofy old tools and saying funny things about it.

Oh, that's cool.

Cause that's kind of a little demo too.

Absolutely. So first of all,

I mean I'm resizing spoon rings and that's its own little

demonstration. And then people feel like it's custom made for them

because every size for them on the spot using funky old

looking metal Smith tools.

But then I do also have a demonstration bench where I'm

often especially things where I have it set up showing forks

that I've been transforming where I've been sculpting the fork tines

sort of.

So sometimes I'm actually working,

making things on that little demonstration bench.

Other times it's just set up to serve display the materials,

show forks in the mid process of being transformed.

I love that idea too,

because if you're at a show and let's say traffic is

really slow,

then you can actually be working.

You can be putting in production time and Showtime in the

same way.

Oh absolutely.

Yeah. Wonderful.

Oh my gosh,

Doug, this is so amazing.

You're right.

We could go on talking for days.

Cause I could think of a list of questions that I'd

want to ask,

but for now I think the best thing would be for

us to direct our listeners to where they can see more,

have some demonstration of what you're doing,

like the blog and all of that.

So where's the best place online where we,

you would like to send people Best place to find me

online and to learn about me and about my work is

my website lost and forged.com.

You spell out the word and lost sort of like lost

and found,

but lost and forged forged metal work.

And my blog is part of the website,

all my products,

the online store,

it's all part of the same website.

That's the best way to go.

Okay. And I think you had something to offer us today

too. I do.

So I always offer,

if you sign up for my email list,

you always get a 15% discount for your first order within

two weeks.

But for listeners of the show,

I'm offering a 20% discount on the spoon ring of your

choice and there's all kinds of fun spoon rings.

And so the gift code or discount code is unwrapped for

your podcast listeners too.

And that's for first two weeks after this podcast airs.

So it's the last two weeks of July.

You can get a 20% discount off of any spoon ring

from my website using the gift code unwrapped.

Perfect. So then you have until July 31st,

2022 to take advantage of the 20% off gift that Doug's

given us.

So that's amazing,

Doug, thank you so much.

You better like have a lot of rings there for us

to choose from.

Oh, I do.

Okay. Wonderful.

Well, thank you so much for your time today,

Doug. I mean,

it's been such first off just going from rabbi to artisan

and making that flip.

I know you're still doing both,

but making that flip is such an interesting concept first off.

And then the whole development of Loston forged in terms of

validation, all that you've put together,

I'm still a little blown away that you put up an

Etsy shop and a website at the same time.

I will put you in the category of overachiever.

You'll accept it right with pride.

I Don't recommend it.

Hey, we all do it our own way.

And I think that that is amazing.

So Doug,

thank you so so much for giving us an inside peek

into the development of Loston forged and everything that you've shared

with us today.

I so appreciate it.

Thank you Sue for taking the time to talk to me

and thanks for all you do to walk entrepreneurs and artists

and makers through important steps of building and growing our businesses.

Thank you so much for that.

Take care,

have a great rest of your day.

Bye. So Wow.

Let's summarize what Doug did to get his business to where

it is today.

He had an open mind and tried out a number of

business ideas.

He validated his product early on.

He now sells in person on Etsy and his own website

all while collecting email addresses and interacting with his customers regularly.

And he has a fabulous creation story and makes gorgeous unique

products. If you're just starting out relisten to this one,

with pen and paper at the ready,

it truly is a model to follow.

Before you move on to your next activity today,

make sure to get your name on the list for at

least one gift biz bash.

You can see the dates and times for upcoming sessions and

get signed up over at gift biz,

unwrapped.com forward slash bash.

And if you're enjoying the podcast and would like to show

support a rating and review would be wonderful.

It helps spread the word about the show too.

So it's a great way to pay it forward.

There's also another way to get something tangible in exchange for

your support.

Visit my merch shop for a wide variety of inspirational items

like mugs,

journals, water bottles,

and more featuring logos images and quotes to inspire you throughout

your day makes a great gift to,

and we've just added some new products for the season,

which is my favorite design right now.

It's a toss up with that gorgeous lemonade image and a

quote about refreshing and the beautiful butterfly design what's yours.

Turnaround is quick and the quality is top notch,

nothing but the best for you.

Take a look@alltheoptionsatgiftbizon.com

forward slash shop.

All proceeds from these purchases helps me offset the costs of

producing this podcast and now be safe and well.

And I'll see you again.

Next time on the gift biz unwrapped podcast.

I want to make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook

group called gift is free.

It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

Have to say where I invite all of you to share

what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reaction from other people and just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making my favorite post every single week,

without doubt.

Wait, what aren't you part of the group already,

if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search

for the group gift biz breeze don't delay.