408 – Yes! You Can Be Successful Opening a Retail Shop Today with Jessie Williams

Maybe you’re heard that brick-and-mortar retail shopping is dead.

Don’t believe it! Retail is still an option. The dream is not lost.

Today you’ll hear from Jessie, a very successful owner of three shops. She started scrappy and took advantage of growth opportunities as they presented themselves.

You’ll learn about the behind-the-scenes things a store owner faces, and also how eCommerce fits into her overall plan. If you’ve ever thought about opening a bakery or retail store, this one’s for you.

Jessie Williams is the founder of Edge of Urge, which specializes in the success and discovery of emerging designers. Offering a valuable retail space to other local designers, her business model has acted as a launch pad for like-minded, risk-taking, passionate designers, creators, and artists since 2002.

And that’s not all Jessie is also the founder of Unlikely Professionals. Just like Edge of Urge, Unlikely Professionals is built on the mantra of making something from nothing. This space speaks to anyone who believes in their vision to stand proud no matter what the profession. Think: Unisexy general store vibes with apparel, craft beer, and natural wines.

Jessie is a mom, designer, and mentor. And describes herself as a dreamer and tender-hearted.

Opening A Retail Shop

In this episode, you’ll hear about …

  • Why it’s okay NOT to know everything before you start.
  • What to look for in a location for your business.
  • The advantages of retail vs. online shopping.
  • How to capture the customers’ interest.
  • Why it’s so important to be present at the store.
  • The secret to knowing what your customers want.
  • Building a team.
  • Plus so much more!

Tune in now to hear how Yes! You Can Be Successful Opening a Retail Shop Today!

Jessie’s Contact Links

WebsiteFacebook | Instagram


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Transcript
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Gift is unwrapped guest episode number 408.

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If life gives you lemons,

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then just make brownies you silly goose.

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Attention gifters begs,

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crafters and makers.

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Pursuing your dream can be fun.

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Whether you have an established business or looking to start one

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now you are in the right place.

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This is Gift Biz Unwrapped,

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helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

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Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,

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resources and the support you need to grow your gift biz.

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Here is your host Gift Biz gal Sue Moon Height.

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Hi there,

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it's Sue.

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Thanks for joining me here today and I'm so glad you

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did because I've got a great show coming your way.

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As you've already gathered from the title,

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it's about retail not too many years back.

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This was the obvious way to approach a business if you

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wanted to sell directly to consumers.

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Then came the whole web and along with its social media

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and everything changed.

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We all naturally gravitated to the bright new shiny object everyone

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was talking about.

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Retailers saw the web as a threat and others saw it

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as an opportunity.

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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle because obviously

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e-commerce has had a huge effect on our lives,

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but it's not true that it's completely replaced the personal selling

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experience. Retail is not dead.

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Instead, a new version of retail has emerged as a combination

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of the best of both.

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Even the big guys are dipping their toes into the retail

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pool as evidenced by Amazon's purchase of Whole Foods and the

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presence of return desks in Kohl's.

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At the smaller boutique level,

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retail is still an option.

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If your heart is set on that,

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the dream is not lost.

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Today you'll hear from Jesse,

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a very successful owner of three shops.

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She shares how she started scrappy and took advantage of the

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growth opportunities that presented themselves.

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You'll also learn about the behind the scenes things a store

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owner faces and how e-commerce fits into Jesse's overall plan.

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If you've ever thought about opening a bakery or a retail

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store, this one's for you Today.

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I cannot wait to introduce you to Jesse Williams,

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the founder of Edge of Urge,

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which specializes in the success and discovery of emerging designers offering

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a valuable retail space to other local designers.

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Her business model has acted as a launchpad for like-minded risk-taking,

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passionate designers,

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creators, and artists since 2002.

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And that's not all.

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Jesse is also the founder of Unlikely Professionals.

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Just like edge of urge,

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unlikely professionals is built on the mantra of making something from

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nothing. This space speaks to anyone who believes in their vision

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and allows them to stand proud no matter what the profession

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think. Unisex general store vibes with apparel,

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craft beer and natural wines.

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Jessie's a mom,

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designer and mentor and she describes herself as a dreamer and

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tenderhearted. Jessie,

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welcome to the Gift Biz Unwrapped podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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There are so many fun,

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good words in that intro.

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I can't wait to go and get under all of that.

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But before we do,

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I always like to start in a way that's a little

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different and that is to have you describe yourself through a

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motivational candle.

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So if you were to create a candle that resonated completely

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with you,

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tell us what it would look like with a color or

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some type of quote or mantra.

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Okay. So I absolutely love candles.

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We sell so many of them in the store and there's

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so many different,

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like the packaging and the presentation and the scent profiles.

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They're all over the place.

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I'm just gonna tell you a little story so I can

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get you to where I'm going with my motivational candle.

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One of my favorite brands that we carry in store,

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the first shipment that we received,

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everything like one of the boxes,

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like 48 candles came like all of 'em were completely shattered.

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Oh, a train wreck.

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Like it was just like broken glass everywhere.

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And I was just thinking like,

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oh my gosh,

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these people hand poured all of these candles and they arrived

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completely shattered and it,

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you know,

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it was like thousands of dollars that were essentially could have

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been wasted.

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And I was like,

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oh my gosh,

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I cannot throw these away.

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So they sent replacements.

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I held onto that box and I ordered some,

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I usually ordered testers to burn in the store.

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And once I burned through one of the first testers I

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was like,

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I'm going back into that box.

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And I took a hammer and I started like chiseling away

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the glass on like just one of the 48 broken candles.

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And I finally got it out and put it in the

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vessel of the burnt tester that had like block marks.

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It wasn't a beautiful looking anymore.

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And I put it in there and I lit it and

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it was just so rewarding and it,

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it smelled so good and it was so warm and comforting.

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So I think if I were a motivational candle I would

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be probably one put in a recycled jar or vessel of

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some sort.

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And maybe a quote on it would be,

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if life gives you lemons then just make brownies.

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You silly goose.

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Oh I was not expecting that you caught me off guard

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cause I thought you were gonna go with the general one,

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right, the general cook.

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Yeah, Right.

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Look and make something different and find joy out of something

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different. Which totally speaks to everything you stand for obviously.

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Yeah, I think I saved like almost all 48.

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There were a few where the WIC wick,

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like I couldn't get it off the bottom of the glass

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without like cutting my hands.

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They were so out all of them we burned just about

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every single one of them.

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And you know,

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scent is very nostalgic.

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You can smell something,

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I'll take you right back to a time and place.

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So that particular brand,

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most of them are very warm and earthy sense.

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That's what I would be.

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Did you ever go back and tell them what you did

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with all the damaged product?

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You know,

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I didn't but I probably should.

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We worked together now for gosh a bazillion years and every

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now and then like they've changed their shipping model thank goodness.

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And we rarely get a broken one these days.

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That's good.

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I just thought of like how many hours they spent making

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each one and it's like I can't waste this.

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I know that's heartbreaking.

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Plus all the time in labor and then all the cost

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for all the vessels and everything.

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Oh my gosh.

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But these things happen,

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right? They do.

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There are always things that come up and we deal with

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them and we move on.

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That's right.

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Okay. Tell me about how you got started and this vision

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for the stores that you have.

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I just finished school in Chicago.

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I went to Art Institute of Chicago and I had picked

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up knitting again and I was working in a record store

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and I had been knitting these little scarves.

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I used to ride my bike to school and work.

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It was in Chicago so windy and my scarf would blow

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off and I was like this is ridiculous.

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So I knitted some shorter scars with buttons and it was

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perfect cuz it would stay on and giving them away to

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friends. And then I started selling them and then I was

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like maybe I could get them into some stores and had

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my cute little suitcase and walked around and just like,

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no, knowing what I know now,

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I went about it like the complete wrong way but no

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bites cuz it was everything was handmade and at the time,

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you know,

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most of the places they wanted something that would be uniform

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and you know they could again,

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again the same.

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And then my mom,

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I was talking to her on the phone one night,

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she was like,

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would you open your own store?

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And I was like,

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that is absolutely insane.

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What do I know about any of that?

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But fast forward,

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I went to visit her in Wilmington for a weekend.

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She was like,

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oh my gosh,

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I found this little space just come and check it out.

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So I bought a plane ticket and something in me was

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like why not?

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You know,

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I'm just,

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I'm working on this record.

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So I finished school,

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I don't really know what I'm doing and I just packed

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up all my stuff,

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signed the lease and moved into this 400 square foot space

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that was actually the storage room of this open air market.

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Oh wow.

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It was very cute.

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Like I can see through the trash,

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you know like the floor was like,

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it was at an angle and I,

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I learned how to like build a platform and lay tile.

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I made this cute little store and when I was leaving

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Chicago I asked some of my friends like,

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Hey you make these beautiful necklaces or you make these funny

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cards or you make these hats like can I take some

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of your stuff and when I sell it I'll send you

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a check,

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I'll pay you for it.

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And they're like,

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some of them said no,

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but most of them said yes.

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And so I opened my store with their things and then

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the things that I knitted through getting open and yeah.

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Yeah. I love your story so much.

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So first off,

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we haven't talked about this but I'm in Chicago right now.

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Oh okay.

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Yeah I'm in Highland Park so I'm like 20 miles up

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the water from Chicago.

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Yeah. So I totally get what you mean about needing a

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scarf that buttoned and the wind and all of that for

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sure. But you talk about a good example right off the

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bat here,

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which is you didn't necessarily know what you're doing and you

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say you were doing all the wrong things.

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What do you mean by that?

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I mean like now that I know like any business that

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is like a retail,

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if they're busy,

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the buyers are busy,

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they don't have time for a walk in or to come

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in and bring your stuff.

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I called and made appointments and then they didn't show up.

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So part of it was like not knowing how the system

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worked to get a foot in.

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And then I did get a few appointments and they were

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like, these are great but I need them to be manufactured

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cause I need consistency.

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When it was just I was going to the wrong places.

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So now if I'm a maker I would look at a

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store and think of my products as like people and then

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I'm like would these people hang out with those people?

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Do they look like they would get along?

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Do they like kinda fit together?

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Do they look like they would compliment each other?

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Like they would help accentuate each other?

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If so,

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then I would reach out there and I would do it

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through, you know,

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finding who the buyer was,

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emailing a line sheet,

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you know,

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with contact information.

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I wouldn't just show up and then like leave samples or

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you know,

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some people do that and I'm just like,

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if you like it that's great,

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but if you don't then you have like this pile of

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stuff that if you're like me,

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I can't throw away something you handmade.

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Even if it's not like the aesthetic for the store.

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And then there's just certain ways to go about it.

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Yeah, I've learned over the years But it didn't stop you.

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Right. And I think that's important for people who are listening

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who feel like they don't know what they're doing,

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do it anyway.

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Like you learn something,

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garner as much information as you can.

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That's why this podcast exists and Jesse's sharing her information with

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you here,

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learn what you can but don't feel like you have to

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know everything because you'll never start that.

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And it's okay if you make mistakes or you learn to

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do things better.

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And Jesse,

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as we continue with your story,

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I know you're gonna show this as an example,

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it doesn't mean if you do something wrong the first time

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that it's over,

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you can't do anything.

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Everybody makes mistakes along the way.

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So this is a great example.

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The other thing I was thinking as you were talking Jesse,

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is so you were doing this in the early two thousands,

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right? And this is still when all the brand names.

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Yes, I know brand names are still important today.

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Nobody come out and tell me differently,

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but that's all people wanted.

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They wanted exactly like their friends had.

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And I feel like now a lot has shifted and the

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uniqueness and style and having something different than the others is

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really popular now overlaid by supporting local and handmade.

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So now is such a great,

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great time if someone's looking at starting versus some of the

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challenges you had when you first started Edge of Urge.

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Oh yes,

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it's definitely shifted.

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It was before.

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It's kinda like when you hear like stories of like I

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walked uphill both in snow,

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it was kinda like that.

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Like it was before Etsy,

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it was before text messaging,

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you know,

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no Instagram,

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I mean I didn't have a computer,

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it was just like my own computer,

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you know,

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you had to just go out and figure it out.

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There's so much more information now,

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which is super cool but you know,

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through the beginning of the year.

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So it's like a network of us that we just kind

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of found.

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So we would support each other.

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Yeah. But now I think people have come to appreciate more

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of slow fashion or why things,

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I wanna know the story of where things come from and

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they wanna meet the maker,

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they seem to care again,

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which is a lovely thing.

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I agree with you.

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Lots of opportunity.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So let's stay back then.

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When you opened your little store,

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how did you get the word out and how did you

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attract your first customers there?

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I planned it.

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So I would open on 4th of July and in Wilmington

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that's a huge,

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like there's tons of people out and about and I remember

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I stayed up the night before making things.

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I was like,

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I don't have enough stuff for the store.

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And I was completely delirious that day,

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but it was really,

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you know,

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I didn't have any money for marketing nor did I even

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know what that was at the time.

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So I was just like,

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I'm just gonna be here and this is when the people

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are gonna come in and I'm just,

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they're gonna hopefully find me and then wanna come back.

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It was really slow and steady.

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It was not,

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like I said,

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it was completely self-funded.

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You know the space was 400 square feet,

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the rent was $400.

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All my inventory was essentially free.

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I didn't have a POS system,

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it was like me hand write this with my little cash

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and my little the credit card.

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Remember that?

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Oh my gosh,

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I remember those.

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Oh gosh,

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Yes. Pretty low cost.

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But You were getting sales,

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it sounds like you were getting sale.

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Did you get a snail the first day?

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The first day I made a thousand dollars and I sold

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one of the dresses that I didn't know how to use

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the sewing machine.

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Then I was a hand sew the dress and I sold

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it for $400.

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So almost half of it was this one dress.

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And then I had like,

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that was pretty good.

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And then I had like 0,

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0, 0,

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I mean like zero days.

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Was that then during the week,

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were you open every day?

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Yeah, I was open every day and it was really slow

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and then from there I was like I gotta get outta

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this market because this,

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my brand doesn't really fit in here anymore.

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Like it was a great place to start but I'm not

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gonna grow if I stay here.

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So there was this a space around the corner and I

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was like we gotta get there,

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I've gotta figure out how to get it.

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But it was like,

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I think $1,500

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a month,

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which was a big shift.

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So there was this woman that I knew who was a

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customer and a friend of the family and she sold jewelry

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out of her house and I was like in Greensboro and

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I said,

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I got a proposition for you.

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What if you put some of your jewelry in Algebra Verge

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and then like helped me pay for the rent and anything

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that you sold I would give it to you.

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And she did it and she did it until I was

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able to get on my feet.

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It took me like almost a year and then I was

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able to,

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I kept some of her stuff in there but then I

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didn't need her help to pay the rent anymore.

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So it was just really slow.

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And then from there I moved around the corner to where

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we're now we've been there for 18 years or 17 years

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in Wilmington.

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Wow. Amazing.

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Just like the candle I think I've come to appreciate it

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as my biggest assets in the business is the ability to

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be scrappy or resourceful.

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I'm not embarrassed to be scrappy because it's really saved my

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butt quite a few times.

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Got it.

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You know what I mean?

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Yep, I got it.

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So for someone who's looking for a retail space now,

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what are some things that you would suggest that they'd be

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looking at?

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What are the considerations?

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Because you saw now with three different locations you were growing

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of course,

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but what are some tips about looking for a retail spot?

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I would say there's that old saying location,

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location, location.

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Like that is not a lie.

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Like it is so legit and it is something to hold

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right in the front of your face when you're looking at

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locations. Foot traffic like also depends on what kinda business you

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are. You know like I feel like people will travel a

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little further and be more experimental if it's food or alcohol.

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But for like soft goods like retail,

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they need to be able to,

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at least in this area like parking is something to think

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about. You know,

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what is it next to,

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are there other people walking around?

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Like downtown Wilmington is awesome because there's so much foot traffic

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like every day there's just people there all the time,

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you know,

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working or visiting.

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It's a tourist area where we are in Raleigh,

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like the first three years was,

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oh my gosh,

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I thought I was gonna have to close.

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I thought that I made like the worst decision ever because

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it took so long for that neighborhood to like ignite.

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But like onto the fourth year there I was like oh

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I can do it,

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this is great.

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And now it's great.

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Was it a developing neighborhood in Raleigh?

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Is that what was going on?

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Yeah, that building had been vacant for many,

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many years and when I moved in there was a bakery,

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a wine shop and a bar and they had been there

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long enough to have some of the falling but again they're

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all like food and beverage but then retail like you know

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people will come over and they're like oh I didn't come

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over here for that.

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So I don't really have time for that.

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I have time to like grab a coffee or time to

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grab some wine and go home or have at late when

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we're closed for the bar and it just takes time.

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So I would say if you're in an area that is

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promising, maybe think about the rent.

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Is there a way to scale it up until it does

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take off instead of starting out with the bank?

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Cause you need some money to float you until you get

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there. But also those prime locations,

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the rent can be so,

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so high.

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You have to also think like just because the location is

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perfect, if the rent is so high,

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does that make sense for you?

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It's a very tricky process and you have to know your

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risk tolerance.

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So like when I was in the beginning I almost was

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completely fearless cuz I had no idea what I didn't know.

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But at the same time I had no money so I

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could only do so much.

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Right. But now that I have a family and I have

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all these employees and people that rely on me to for

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their paychecks like that,

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it's more of a risk cuz I'm not willing to hurt

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anybody just for me having some like wild idea to do

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something. That makes sense.

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Yeah it does.

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But you also were real creative in the start,

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first off,

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like you said scrappy,

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you know,

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getting what you could afford and feel comfortable about.

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Cause you don't wanna be totally stressed out about rent either,

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you know,

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especially if you're just starting out.

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But then your idea of,

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you know,

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as you said you added in your friend who is a

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jeweler for a short time,

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that's a great model.

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You know if someone is looking and wants to do retail

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and your community allows for it set up like a co-op

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shop, you know,

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and bring in local makers and you know there are models,

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I'm sure you know Jesse,

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where some of the people who have space from your shop

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will work a certain number of hours a month at the

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space, which then allows you to,

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like you were saying before,

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meet the maker,

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you know,

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things like that.

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We did that too.

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You did that too.

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Okay. So there are ways to build things up.

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You don't just automatically have to jump from zero to 1500

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or gosh who knows what,

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you know some of the prices are of retail.

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I know in my area it's crazy expensive.

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You know we did consignment for many,

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many years,

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which was I think most consignment deals.

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The artists get half or even less than half.

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For us we did 60% goes to the maker and then

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we would keep the rest because it was like they were

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helping us because it,

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we didn't have to pay for inventory for the store and

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they were trusting us with their work.

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So it ended up being a really sweet deal for both

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parties because we were able to grow our assortment and then

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from there then we were able to buy and have like

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a really fun mix of inventory.

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And now a lot of the makers we didn't sign it

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with, we just buy straight out from them.

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Oh you do?

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Okay. Yeah.

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So slow and steady,

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slow And steady.

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I'm getting that trend slow and steady.

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But the products that you have are fun,

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unique, funky,

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interesting, different,

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all that right?

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Oh yes.

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Nailed it.

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Well and the other thing about offering things that you're either

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consignment where you're paying for it now as you're talking about

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or consignment where you're paying the maker if it sells is

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then you have such a breadth of different types of products

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in the shop,

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which would attract more people who's in there now.

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Like such a variety invokes interest as well.

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So I love that model,

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you know,

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especially for makers And you can test the product too,

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you know,

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so if it something wasn't working we wouldn't just say this

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isn't working,

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take it back.

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You know,

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it would would be like,

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I think the packaging,

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maybe we could think about a way we could update the

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packaging or the pricing on this.

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You know,

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if something's selling so fast I'm might,

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this is price a little low,

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I think you could bump up your price a little bit

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more. Something like that.

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Giving feedback are like just lots of information.

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Yeah. What examples or comments or thoughts do you have on

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displaying product in retail?

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You must have seen so much because did everyone get to

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come in and set up their own little space and then

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you would maintain it or did you do all the display?

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I am a maniac.

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Yeah. I really love merchandising,

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I love putting things together.

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I enjoy it so much that I do most of that.

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And then my husband and I both do unlikely professionals.

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He's also really good at merchandising.

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We've also talked about one of the dreams that could be

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so fun is that people hired us to come and we

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would help them with their stores.

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Like find them fixtures and help them merchandise and teach them

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how to do it.

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I think that could be so fun one day.

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But yeah,

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I think it's all in how you place it around the

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store to make it exciting and an adventure for people.

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So if something doesn't sell,

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do you rearrange maybe where it is in the store or

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where it's the combinations that you're putting together and then you

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see that then it will move just because of that kind

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of an adjustment.

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Yeah, I think put it in a spot.

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Usually if something new comes in you've got like a few

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different areas that will put new items and then if that

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does really well,

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maybe that will stay and something will move or yeah,

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it's very fluid and day by day.

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But really fun.

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I can tell I saw you light up when we started

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talking about this topic.

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Yeah, sometimes I wish I could just do that part,

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you know like buy the stuff,

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get it in and put it out and then I wouldn't

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have to do anything else.

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So it would be the most fun.

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There you go.

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Oh gosh.

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And what do you do with things that don't sell?

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Like you've tried this,

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you've re-merchandise,

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you've like everything,

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what do you do when there's just a piece that does

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not sell?

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Yeah, well usually worst case scenario we have to mark it

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down and that's always really a real big bummer.

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But sometimes it moves and sometimes it's like there's every now

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and then there's a few things that I'm like,

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oh my gosh I couldn't even give this away.

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Oh thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

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Yeah, usually we'll just mark it down.

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We have a section that we have some customers go straight

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to the sale and we have it and they're like,

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yes. Yeah,

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usually we try moving it around and we,

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you know,

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make sure that we've hyped it up something we love and

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believe in.

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And if that doesn't work on sale,

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Is there anything that you can put your finger on of

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why some things weren't selling?

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So this year I did a big experiment with apparel because

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we had a lot of customers saying they wanted,

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they're saying that they want size inclusivity,

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like more of it,

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which is a whole other like you could talk about that

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for hours,

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like the whole whole apparel industry but size inclusivity,

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they wanna know where it's from,

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like things that are more ethically made.

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All of these things that we all want,

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right? But there's only a handful of brands that make those.

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Actually there's not very many brands that make it in a

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price that is very affordable.

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Right. It's gonna be at least a hundred is like you're

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lucky if you find it for a hundred.

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So it's gonna be one 50 to three 50 and that's

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just a really tough price point for our customer.

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Yeah. So this year I feel like I went,

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they said they wanted it,

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I went for it,

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they actually didn't want it.

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So I do have a lot of that stuff on sale

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right now and it's really hard and that's when as a

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business owner it can be challenging because you know your business,

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you know what your gut says,

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but you also are doing the business where people,

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so you wanna listen to the people.

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So I think this year we're just gonna try to find

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a place that we can land in the middle.

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But yeah that was a tough one.

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That's a really good lesson.

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And I had a similar situation back in the day too

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and the learning for me with that is it's really easy

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for people to tell you what they want but like that

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action has to follow through.

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Yeah And I got stuck with thousands of dollars of inventory

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too because I heard someone say they wanted like corporations or

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something wanted something and then they bought like one or two.

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Yeah. Oh Ah no I know I went hard.

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That's a really good cautionary tale and yet I kind of

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cringe cuz I haven't thought about that situation for a long

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time. But I've had the same experience so excellent word of

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warning for sure.

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Yes. Anything else about product not fitting in?

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Like maybe it just didn't resonate with clientele,

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it didn't match with other things you had in the store?

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I don't know what it could be.

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I'm trying to get you to dig deeper Jessie.

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Yeah I guess I feel like it took me a long

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time to get to this point but I feel like I

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know like I can trust my gut and I know generally

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what people are gonna like.

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Like this past year I bombed like super bombed on the

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clothing cause at the price point like I just failed.

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And so that's like the first time I've done that in

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a while,

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like pretty bad feeling.

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But when I first moved to Raleigh and open the store

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here, I was like well people love Edge of Verge,

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they want edge of Virgin Raleigh so it'll be edge of

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Verge Wilmington but in Raleigh and then I learned that the

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customers don't like the same kinds of things so it took

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me time.

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It's really just like really paying attention to what people are

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buying, paying attention to the areas in the store that go

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thin the quickest.

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You know like what are people gravitating towards and knowing they

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like that more of that they're not going that way,

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less of that,

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you know.

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And I think of like you pick top 10 best your

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top 10 worst and then like of try to keep moving

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everything up closer to the top.

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And so in Wilmington I do some buying for there but

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I think it's important to be,

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for me,

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in my opinion,

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to be in the store to see what the people are

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buying. Cuz you hear those comments,

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you see people come on,

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they're like these pants,

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like they fit really well.

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I feel so confident in these.

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So oh great,

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okay so that brand,

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they have a nice sizing model,

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right? So we need to stick with that brand or this

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is a a large,

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these are so small and we're like oh gosh nope,

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get rid of that brand thinking of things like that.

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And so Shannon,

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my manager there,

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I just kinda,

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I let her just go wild and she's doing an amazing

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job and she chooses things that I wouldn't choose for Raleigh

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and they do well there.

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So it's really learning the customer.

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Yeah and through observations,

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which is what you're demonstrating here.

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Which I think for some people who aren't at a place

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where they have retail space but are out at craft shows

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for example,

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or they sell farmer's market,

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observing what people are saying,

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how they're interacting and how they're commenting is so key.

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No matter where you're,

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And if you're trying to create an assortment for your own

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store, your own concept,

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you really gotta think of the things that really resonate deeply

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with you and then can you talk about them to your

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customer Because that's like the most,

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like you make a meaningful relationship with the maker and then

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you translate their story,

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you take their story and hand it to your customer.

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And if you are genuinely in love with the product,

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then if they don't like it then they don't like it.

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But chances are if they're coming into your store then you

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have a chance to show them something new.

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That's a good point because then you're genuinely authentically the big

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word everyone uses now,

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naturally excited about the product to share it with them versus

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if you don't really like the product you're probably neutral but

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it doesn't come through with as much energy I'm guessing.

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Right. Yeah,

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really good point.

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Okay, talk to me about something that is less exciting about

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retail. Like there's always things that people like and don't like,

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right? So what is something that is not that thrilling for

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you about retail or is always a challenge?

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We'll get to Jesse's answer on this question right after a

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quick break to hear from our sponsor.

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I'd say the most challenging part for me would be the

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people part because I think it's important to take care and

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to nurture your team but also to be able to like

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delegate and focus on what you're good at.

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It is challenging cuz like when you add in new people,

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you know,

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most of the time I think you can correct me if

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this wasn't your experience,

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Jesse, but you know,

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you open a shop,

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you're the one running the shop,

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you are the one who has to be there all the

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time during the hours that the shop is open.

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And then eventually you see that that is not a life,

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you can't do that all the time.

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So you have to start bringing in people to help you

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and then your job changes,

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right? Because now you're the leader,

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you're the educator if you will,

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in terms of how you want your team to manage the

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store and how you want your brand to be represented and

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all of that.

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So your whole role changes when you have staff.

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Yeah, it's hard to find really good people and then when

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you do you wanna keep 'em right?

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And so it's like everybody's different.

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Everybody is motivated by different things.

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So asking the right questions and making sure that you're responding

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quick enough to nurture them and to make that relationship and

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that bond strong.

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And I think another part for me is that,

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you know,

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we're a small team but we get really close and sometimes

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I just wanna be the friend.

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Like I don't wanna be the Yeah And I just like,

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I wanna be a part of like the inside hanging and

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like I kind of,

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but not really.

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And it's like,

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it's just hard cause I spend so much of my time

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there and I'm around them more honestly than you know,

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my family.

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Cause I'm with them all day every day and it's like

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that can be kind of hard,

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you know like being the boss sucks sometimes.

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Like having to say things that you don't wanna say.

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Having to be the one to initiate the tough conversations.

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Having to smile when somebody that you love like puts in

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a two weeks notice because they got a job and like

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something that they're genuinely passionate in.

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Like photography and then being like I'm so happy for you

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but ugh.

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Like there's bittersweet moments and you get so attached.

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I think that's hard.

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We're seeing your tenderhearted side come out Jesse.

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It's so hard.

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It's so hard.

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Yeah, I've had to fire only a few people in my

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20 years and it's like,

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I think it's just hard to do it without,

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even if they've done every,

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they can stab you right in the chest.

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It's like,

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yeah. So I think for me that's a really hard part

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and balancing everything,

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you know,

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like the curve balls that you get in the day.

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Like I have my schedule for the day but then it's

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like Jesse,

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I need this Jesse,

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I need this Jesse,

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I need this.

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And I'm like,

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but I just need to do this,

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this and this.

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Yeah, you get diverted so much.

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Yeah, Yeah.

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And you know,

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don't wanna leave them hanging.

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So that's where,

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where I wouldn't say that I would be an expert in

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any way.

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You know,

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where there's some things I could do in my sleep even

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after 20 years.

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Some of the people part and the time management things can

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trip me up from time to time.

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Well I'd say you're doing a great job given how long

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I'm really trying.

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But you know like with anything,

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there's always something that is not your forte or something that's

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just harder cuz it doesn't come naturally to you or you

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don't like it or whatever.

Speaker:

But those serve as good knowledge bases for someone who's considering

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retail, which is why I wanted to bring it up.

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Yeah. And I think that's where finding a good manager is

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really helpful.

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If you're tenderhearted like me or if you have a hard

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time delegating,

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finding really strong managers who are confident in those areas is

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important because they can nail it while you're over there crying

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in the corner.

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There you go.

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You know,

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like yeah it's important and then you can support them.

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I'd also say,

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I don't know if you had this experience but I have

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in my life is,

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you know,

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if you have to replace a team member and they end

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up, if a new person who comes in there's a personality

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conflict or they're not carrying their weight or whatever it is,

Speaker:

can really start to poison the entire team.

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Oh yeah,

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I've had that a few times.

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That's really hard.

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Yeah. And you gotta get 'em out right away.

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Yeah. Especially you work so hard to cultivate this culture and

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it's really important to keep it strong and nourished and let

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them know that you appreciate them.

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Yeah. I don't know what you do,

Speaker:

but whenever I'm hiring in somebody new,

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we do a 90 day trial so they get to come

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in and it's two ways,

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you know,

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we say,

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you know,

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we'll see how everything works out in terms of what's involved

Speaker:

in the job and then also whether this is something that

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you like and enjoy doing.

Speaker:

So that way,

Speaker:

and it's not an automatic rollover to a job at 90

Speaker:

days we stop,

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we analyze and make a decision.

Speaker:

So having that in place right in the beginning before you

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even know for me has been really helpful.

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And there have been some that we've decided not to continue

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or bringing in holiday help.

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So it's only for the holidays.

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And then if you really think they're good then you keep

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'em on.

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Oh okay.

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Yeah guess what?

Speaker:

I have a spark for you.

Speaker:

So there's ways to do it easier.

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I'm glad you brought up the whole people part.

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That was really good.

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It's a touchy subject but it's It's a real one.

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Yeah. But you can't grow without having people you know work

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the shop for you.

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Oh no,

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this is not the Jesse show.

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No, this is the whole team show.

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Yes. So enter in unlikely professionals.

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Where did that come from?

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In Raleigh,

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we opened the back half of the space was my sewing

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studio cuz I thought,

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you know,

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I used to sew above the retail space in Wilmington and

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I was like,

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well let's keep it going here.

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I have my cutting table.

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And then I,

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we would teach workshops,

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like DIY workshops and then we were like,

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like you know what,

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let's make some more retail space on the floor.

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We got rid of it,

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started adding menswear and then it just like,

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we outgrew the space essentially.

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We're like,

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oh my god.

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We're like,

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if you go into the store,

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I'm sure people are like,

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this woman is crazy.

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She is a maximalist.

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It's like floor to ceiling inventory and you know,

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so it was like more of like feminine vibes up front

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masculine vibes in the back and it,

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we were just maxed out.

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And so we found out that the space across the street

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was gonna come available.

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We were like,

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oh my gosh,

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this could be perfect.

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We can move this stuff over there and then do this

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like bar general store kinda vibes,

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like other categories that had been doing really well in the

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store. We thought maybe we could take 'em and just like

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create a sibling,

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a complimentary addition to Edberg.

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And that's where unlikely professionals was born.

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They're not right across the street from each other.

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It's Right across the street.

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Yeah. Oh wow.

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That's convenient.

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It's, yeah,

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it's convenient.

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And so that space is pretty big.

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It's like 3000 square feet.

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And so we have like a pretty long nice bar in

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there with beer and wine.

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And then we have like general store kinda vibes where we

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have all kinds of specialty foods and gifts and like fun

Speaker:

kitchen items.

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And then we have masculine apparel and then we have some

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of those brands started doing women's apparel.

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So it's very much the same energy and like morals and

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everything of edge verge,

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but it's just another one of our personalities.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah. This is so exciting just to hear how one thing

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leads to another,

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leads to another.

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You take advantage of what comes in front of you,

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you know,

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like go into the very beginning of your story where there's

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a larger space right around the corner and then where you

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are now is a bigger space right around the corner.

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Now you've got the space across the street.

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But when those opportunities came about,

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like if you didn't take it,

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someone else would have.

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So it's a limited time opportunity.

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Was there anything you felt that you had already prepared besides

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just thinking you needed to grow bigger or when the opportunity

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came up you're just like,

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this is perfect,

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we're gonna do it and jump in.

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That's exactly what we did.

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It was like,

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oh my gosh,

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let's do it.

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Let's just go for it.

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Let's just go for it.

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Honestly, everything is retractable,

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right? For the most part.

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It Is.

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And I think,

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you know,

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this is where I remember working years and years ago,

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thinking of ways that I could expand my business.

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And I was like,

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well I'm self-taught everything,

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maybe I should reach out and get some like professional advice.

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And so I was working with free resources in Bloomington and

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they were like,

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you need to do a business plan.

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That's what you need.

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And I'm like a business plan,

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ok. And I think I must have gone into a state

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of paralysis because my brain can't think like that.

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I just can't.

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Like I,

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I have an idea and it's like I'm the kind of

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person that's like,

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I think you should paint the wall yellow.

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And then I paint it and there's one little spot left

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and I'm like,

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after I fill in that last spot,

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I'm like,

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hmm, no I think it should be gray.

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You know,

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I have to do it.

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I can't like just paint like a swatch on the wall

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and say that's great.

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It's like I have to,

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I learned by doing and it's,

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that's part of the thrill for me and I wouldn't advise

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that for for many people,

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but just how I operate.

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So when we saw the space,

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we were like,

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we have enough stuff of like,

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you know,

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for fixtures and random things in our house,

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we can make it work.

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Yeah, just go for it.

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Yeah. Well and I'm sure that a lot of the people,

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your customers who were already coming in,

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you were telling them about across the street,

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go there too.

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And so it was automatic,

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you know,

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we're getting out about the other location as well.

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That's very cool.

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Where does your website fit into all of this?

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When did that get started?

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Is it significant for you or a support or kind of

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tell us where that's positioned within your non-existent business plan.

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Right. So I think my first website my uncle made for

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me and it was a bazillion years ago,

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you know,

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and it was like PayPal and it had like my swimsuits

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that I made and scarves and that was great.

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And then once I switched over to a real point of

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sale and needed a real,

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like a more robust website,

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it's just like the stores,

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it was slowly kinda growing and growing.

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I guess it wasn't until I moved to Raleigh where the

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website became more of like a substantial part of the business

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and then when Covid hit,

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it just took off.

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And so now my dream was to have the website to

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be like another location,

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right? To be its own thing.

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And it's there now.

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So it's like we have Wilmington,

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we have Raleigh,

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we have Unlikely,

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and we have the website and they all pull from our

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inventory, which can be kind of messy.

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Like it would be nice to have its own inventory,

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but we're not quite there yet.

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But it plays a pretty significant role in the business.

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Like we have to schedule,

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we package ship from both Loca from Wilmington and Raleigh and

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it's daily,

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you know,

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packages out daily.

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It's super fun shipping them all over the place and it's

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been fun to watch.

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Yeah, you were really fortunate that you already had a website

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established when the pandemic hit.

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If we didn't,

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I don't know what we would've done,

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but it was almost everything was on the site then.

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And when that happened we were like,

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alright, well now it's time to put everything online.

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So we started getting everything online and then,

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but we have all this inventory,

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what are we gonna do with it?

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So we started doing mystery boxes right when Covid hit and

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it would be,

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people could write in and you could do start at 25

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and they could go up as high as you wanted and

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you would write in something about like you wanna get a

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gift for somebody.

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Like say it's for my best friend,

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she loves cats,

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she's an aspiring chef,

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she's really funny,

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she's very into politics,

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but she,

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she hates the color pink and does not like glitter.

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You could like something as specific as that you could.

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And then we would curate,

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given that we would go through and pick items in the

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store that would reach that amount gift wrap 'em and send

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them out for them.

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So you didn't get approval,

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you didn't go back to her and say,

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how about this or this or this?

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It was like,

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you tell us and then you trust us.

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Yeah. And then we did it.

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And that right there,

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that is what the Edge Verge survived because of those freaking

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mystery boxes.

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And we still do 'em.

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And people love because it's just like the experience in store.

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You know,

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people are like,

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so she's 16,

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she loves Harry styles but she is wanting to learn more

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about blah blah blah or something and was really into skincare

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or you know,

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we could put something together pretty quickly for him cause we

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have so much variety and yeah,

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it's super fun.

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That is so creative.

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I love that.

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And especially then it was something that you had to put

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together relatively quickly that served a need because you had all

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this inventory,

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but also people still needed gifts and even more than ever

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now because we weren't getting together at that time.

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So you really filled a need.

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Yeah. And then we did some fundraisers where people could buy

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them for nurses,

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the hospitals here in Raleigh and in Wilmington.

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So families were buying gift cards,

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we were putting them together and would deliver them to the

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hospitals for all the nurses that were working crazy hours.

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So it was,

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it's been really fun journey to see all of the wild

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ideas and how some of them stick and some of them

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just bomb,

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but you just pick yourself up and keep going,

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you know?

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It's amazing what you can come up with when you get

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pushed like that.

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Yeah. So one final question cuz I'm just so curious.

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So like when you get inventory in,

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you obviously have it assigned to a certain store cuz you

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figured that out before you're purchasing,

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right? But then does it also automatically go on the website?

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Everything? It does everything.

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Everything, Everything.

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Unless it's something that's like super heavy or just like a

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pain in the butt to ship.

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We don't put those online.

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We try putting in-store pickup,

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but people are like,

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I live in Chicago,

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I'm gonna order it.

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And I'm like,

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it says in-store pickup Raleigh,

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you know?

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So we decided like maybe we should just not put those

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online. Yeah.

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So yeah,

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we put almost everything is on the site now.

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So someone walks into one of your stores today and buys

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something, are your systems behind the scenes set so that that

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gets pulled automatically from inventory or from your website?

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So it's all set up so you don't have to worry

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about that at all,

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Right? It's just the manual initial input of the product.

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Exactly. Which means Jess,

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you have to take a photo of it,

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everything. Yes,

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Yes. Okay.

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Because a lot of people are challenged,

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like a lot of people who are listening right now do

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one of a kind type products,

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but they also wanna be on Etsy.

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But they'll have to take a picture of every single one

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of the things that they make.

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And here you're an example of someone doing it.

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Well the photo part is a really tough one because you

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know, as a buyer when I'm shopping or I'm looking at

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things like it's your first impression,

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right? So your photography needs to be like right on because

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you can have a beautiful product,

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but if the person's not there to see it in real

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life or to meet you and say,

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oh my gosh,

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like you're really funny and you love what you do,

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like I'm gonna buy it just cuz I love you.

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You know,

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like right,

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you're not there,

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it's, your picture has to be everything.

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And so we do the best we can and we have

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some really talented photographers on staff that help.

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And I dunno,

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it's just important.

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But we have one of a kind items that can be,

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it's a pretty heavy weight,

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you know,

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like if you gotta figure out what your system is because

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it is important too.

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Nice images.

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Yeah, for sure.

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All right,

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so if anyone who's listening here wants to see all these

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beautiful photos and all the products that you have,

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where would you send them?

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You can shop four seven edge of.com

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and on there you'll be able to see unlikely professionals and

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edge of,

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and you'll be able to see everything that we offer.

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Okay, wonderful.

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Well I for 1:00 AM going to peek and see what

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you have there.

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Yes. I'm so curious to see all the one of a

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kind stuff and check out that apparel that you've put on

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sale too.

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I love,

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I love that.

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If you see an order from me,

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like you can say thank you because I'm helping you.

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I'll get rid of that stuff.

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I dunno.

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So anyway,

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Jesse, this has been so interesting.

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We haven't talked recently about retail.

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I think a lot of people are feeling like retail's dead,

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you know,

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it's too hard to do retail in this environment,

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et cetera.

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And you're one who's showing that that's absolutely not true.

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And it's very clear with the whole conversation how much you

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really, really enjoy it.

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Any final comments about retail or your business?

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Anything you wanna leave our listeners with?

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What about for somebody who also feels like in their heart

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they would really,

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really enjoy retail?

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What would you say to somebody like that who's thinking of

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getting started today looking for a space just like you did

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way back when?

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I'd say that if you are interested,

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it is a good time because people,

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I mean,

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I know people are saying that like online is gonna take

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over the world and like there's not gonna be any more

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brick and mortar stores.

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But I feel like from what I'm hearing and what I'm

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personally experiencing is that people really enjoy coming into a space

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and like the part of the experience.

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So if you can create something that is fun and interesting

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and exciting or beautiful and serene,

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you know,

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whatever your energy is,

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if you do it and you do it with all that

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you have,

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then I think people are really gonna enjoy it and come

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back. You know,

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it's like that experience,

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how do they feel when they like the first touchpoint,

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like from the outside,

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how do they feel?

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You know,

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when they're inside,

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how do you treat them?

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Like what are they gonna leave with?

Speaker:

And that feeling is what's gonna bring them back.

Speaker:

Yeah, and I think even now more than before,

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the pandemic,

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people are hungry for interaction and experiences face-to-face,

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real live interaction.

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And we know what it's like not to be able to

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have that anymore.

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So it's all the more precious now and that's what retail

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brings. Yeah.

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And you can get the story,

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you can meet the people.

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Yeah. It's better You can touch the items and actually take

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them with you immediately.

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Yeah. And it doesn't show up in a box like,

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just like with plastic,

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you know,

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it's like it's beautiful.

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You can have it hand wrapped if you want.

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Yeah, Absolutely.

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Jesse, thank you so much.

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I know we took quite a bit of time today,

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but you had such valuable information.

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Your experience is so good.

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I know you've been able to help a lot of the

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people who are listening today who have this in the back

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of their mind,

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I'm for it.

Speaker:

Maybe We'll figure it out,

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how to take a step forward and be more confident in

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doing so.

Speaker:

Jesse, thank you so much for being on the show today.

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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It's been a pleasure.

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I admit it.

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I love shopping online,

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but there's definitely a part of my heart that can't get

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away from strolling the local shops of my hometown.

Speaker:

And definitely a favorite activity when I'm on vacation.

Speaker:

There's nothing like it for joyful browsing and human interaction and

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buying. Of course,

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as a maker,

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you have a number of options in the retail arena.

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You could do consignment,

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wholesale, be part of an artisan boutique,

Speaker:

or start up a shop yourself.

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I hope hearing Jesse's journey has reignited the spark.

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If this is something you considered but thought the time had

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passed, it hasn't.

Speaker:

Retail is still a thing.

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If you're enjoying the podcast and would like to show support,

Speaker:

a rating and review is always fabulous because it helps get

Speaker:

the show seen by more makers.

Speaker:

It's a great way to pay it forward.

Speaker:

And there's another way where you can get something tangible in

Speaker:

return for your support too.

Speaker:

Visit my merch shop for a wide variety of inspirational items

Speaker:

like mugs,

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journals, water bottles,

Speaker:

and more featuring logos,

Speaker:

images, and quotes to inspire you throughout your day.

Speaker:

Makes a great gift too.

Speaker:

And we've just added some new products for the season to

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the shop.

Speaker:

Turnaround is quick and the quality is top notch,

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nothing but the best for you.

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Take a look at all the options@giftbizunwrapped.com

Speaker:

slash shop.

Speaker:

All proceeds from these purchases helps go to offset the cost

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of producing the show.

Speaker:

And now be safe and well and I'll see you again

Speaker:

next time on the Gift Biz Unwrapped podcast.

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I wanna make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook group

Speaker:

called Gift Miss Breeze.

Speaker:

It's a place where we all gather and are our community

Speaker:

to support each other.

Speaker:

I got a really fun post in there that's my favorite

Speaker:

of the week,

Speaker:

I have to say,

Speaker:

where I invite all of you to share what you're doing

Speaker:

to show pictures of your product,

Speaker:

to show what you're working on for the week,

Speaker:

to get reaction from other people.

Speaker:

And just for fun,

Speaker:

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

Speaker:

in the community is making.

Speaker:

My favorite post every single week.

Speaker:

Without doubt.

Speaker:

Wait, what?

Speaker:

Aren't you part of the group already?

Speaker:

If not,

Speaker:

make sure to jump over to Facebook and search for the

Speaker:

group Gift Biz breeze.

Speaker:

Don't delay.

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