353 – So You Think You’ve Tried Everything to Get People to Buy? with Matt and Layne of Obsessed With Markets

Gift biz unwrapped episode 353.

And I'm interacting with people and customers.

I love it cause it's my hobby.

It's my everything.

And I understand it so well.

Attentive gifters bakers,

crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz on unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

It's Sue and thanks for joining me here today.

How's the year starting out for you not going to lie.

It's been a little shaky on my end.

I'm not wanting to give you just the good and paint

a rosy picture because if you're close to me,

you'll know full well that it isn't with the new strain

of COVID raising its nasty head.

Our office has gotten hit again with the virus.

So we're making staffing adjustments to ensure that we're not all

affected at the same time.

Anyway, that way orders can go out.

As you would anticipate.

Plus the Colorado fires hit our family and the emotional toll

on that.

Can't be underestimated.

I know there are a lot of others across the country

who have been impacted by the hurricanes,

tornadoes and health challenges too.

And my heart goes out to all of us,

hold. Even though it's been a rough start,

that is not going to set the tone for my entire

year. It's just not how I roll.

So let's move into what there is to look forward to

shadowy. You'll be hearing a lot about national bakers,

crafters makers day all month long,

because there is just so much that you can participate in.

And I don't want you to miss a single thing.

The mid roll of this show will show you many of

the details,

but if you want all the goods head over to handmade,

heals the world.com

for a complete review right now,

though, I want to dive into the show.

I had a chance to talk with a married couple who

are experts on selling at markets.

Their story is so interesting because they both had this passion

as they were growing up.

And the combination of their experiences together is really powerful.

You'll see what I mean in a minute,

but if you haven't considered a craft show before,

it's something to seriously think about for this year.

It might change everything for you.

And I don't know if you've noticed,

but even the experts in social media are now changing their

messaging and talking a lot more about email and yes,

face-to-face selling like we're focusing on today.

So without further delay,

let's get to this value packed conversation Today.

It is my special joy to introduce you to Matt and

lane of obsessed with markets,

Matt and lane are a husband and wife business partner team.

And they come from separate backgrounds.

Let me share that with you.

As we start our conversation today,

lane comes from a retail family.

So she grew up on the floor of large retail stores

and experienced going to market with her mom and dad.

Matt is a welder fitter by trade,

who has spent the bulk of his life making sculpting and

fabricating anything.

He could get his hands on his professional life before obsessed

was manufacturing and construction management.

They spend their lives now helping makers and artisans understand what

steps need to be taken to turn their creative passion into

the job they want or the opportunity that they want.

Matt and lane.

Welcome to the gift biz on wrapped podcast.

Hello are so excited to be here.

Thank You.

Yes. We're very excited to be here with you.

I know I'm so excited too.

And we are right on the same wavelength in terms of

the types of things that we provide our audiences.

So I know this is going to be a fabulous conversation

For sure.

We're super excited to be here.

So, and like you just said,

we have very similar backgrounds and ideas on things.

So I'm excited for this one.

Yeah. And we did not talk a lot in the pre-chat.

So everything that comes up is going to be original new,

which is the way I really like to do it.

So it's not like,

well, we already talked about this,

but now we're talking about it for the mic.

But before we do that,

I like to do something a little bit different as we

start off the show.

And that is to have you describe yourself in a creative

way through a motivational candle.

So I give you guys a little bit of opportunity to

think about this beforehand.

And I'm curious,

are you guys doing separate candles?

Are you doing one candle together?

We're going to definitely do separate cabinets.

Oh, okay.

Well maybe there's a story we'll get into about that later.

I don't know.

Oh yeah.

We're both very independent thinkers of one another.

We work well as a team,

but we're very independent as to what we think we should

be done or what we Shouldn't be doing.

Those look very different.

So yeah.

Oh, that's exciting actually though.

Okay. Since this is a non traditional question,

I am going to go the traditional way and ladies first

lane. So tell us about your candle.

Okay. So this is a motivational candle and I think if

I was to choose a color,

I would like to try and go something bright and in

your face and bold.

But my husband would tell me that I'm a complete liar.

So my color would have to be black,

like stark black.

And it's what I'm comfortable with.

So my motivational candle would be black.

It would be strong.

It would be very statuesque.

And I think that would be kind of to the point.

I'm very like specific,

bold to the point black,

are you black and white girl?

I'm so black and white As black as it gets.

I don't Know a lot of people like it,

but I'm very blunt to the point.

Yeah. But then you people know where they stand with you.

They know where you stand on an issue.

There's no Jackie and back and forth about a situation.

And I actually like that.

Yeah. That would be me.

Do You have a quote or a saying or anything that

goes on the candle?

No, I don't think I do.

Just to the point.

I think it depends on the situation that I'm kind of

dealing with.

It would probably change to the day.

Okay. So I've got to ask you a question.

Do you find that this trait with you being very,

like you have your opinion and your thoughts and where you

stand on things,

do you find that that serves you well in business?

I think beforehand,

I would've thought that this would have been something that was

against me,

a flaw against me because I'm very,

to the point I say things that maybe don't need to

be said sometimes,

but it's been a very positive thing with my clients because

instead of beating around the Bush,

when we're coaching and we're discussing things,

I can say what's truly happening,

the true facts and be very,

to the point we don't have to mess around.

We don't have to skirt around the issue.

So yeah.

I feel like it has been a definitely an asset for

me. Yeah.

And you know,

I would say there's a way to say things in a

way to say things,

right. So you can be to the point,

but still be nice and kind Oh,

a hundred percent,

right? Yeah.

It doesn't mean that you're not being that,

but it also,

I mean,

when you think of coaching,

coaching is time and hours.

And if you don't get right to the point,

you're kind of wasting money A hundred percent,

right. You have limited time.

So you need to get to the point,

you needed to find the problems In my corporate life.

I was in a management position where I talked a lot

with my team about the fact that if we're critiquing,

there's a way to critique.

But a critique is a gift versus thinking things in your

mind about how things could be different or what you should

be adjusting and never saying anything,

but coming out and talking about these things,

if you have an opinion in the right way,

with the right words,

with the right goal,

the goal to be beneficial to everybody is like a gift

versus withholding information.

And I like in our marriage and our professional life,

like we literally communicate the same way and everything we do

together, but we are all about critique.

It's funny when people hear us speak to each other,

because we are to the point,

like we're not being hurtful,

but if one of us required the other one to do

something and if it wasn't done the way we needed it,

there just sort of,

matter of fact,

we things to us where we'll say to the other one,

like, no,

no, this isn't what I wanted.

I need it to look like this.

And we're very free to speak to each other like that.

And it helps so much with our communication in general and

the pace that we can do things because we can speak

to each other.

So Yeah,

we're not trying to hurt each other's feelings,

but we're able to address problems and issues very quickly.

Right. But you're on same page in terms of the understanding

of the method and the way you guys are going to

communicate with each other.

But was it Always that way or did you have to

have a conversation to set it up so that you guys

would understand each other in this manner?

It's always been that way.

We have the same personality in some ways.

We're very,

very, to the point And we're to the point,

but like you mentioned,

Sue, like there are ways to speak and then there are

ways to speak.

Like we're not hurtful,

but we are to the point.

So I mean,

we parent,

like we do everything like this.

If it doesn't serve,

like you said,

right? Like coaching in particular,

this happens to you is with everyone else,

right? Like when you're coaching someone,

how much do you butter up what's happened or try and

make it pretty,

as opposed to just saying like,

look, I'm going to rip this bandaid off.

I got to tell you what I see.

Let's work through what you think about it.

But this is what I think right now go,

Right. You're not serving them if you don't do it that

way. Not at all.

No. But I think you also have to have those solutions

ready for them in those situations.

If you're going to say something and you're going to have

a critique or you're going to have,

this is a problem,

you need to be able to follow up with solutions and

answers for these people too.

Don't push someone off the cliff.

Well, and I think so just lastly,

on this topic,

Sue, cause I'm just thinking about how lane and I communicate.

And that's one thing that we do for each other all

the time is we never say no.

Or we never say that's not good enough if we don't

have a clear outcome,

like we never get petty with what the outcome needed to

be. If we're helping each other.

Or if we have an opinion on what something the other

person has done,

we're never petty about it.

We never say like,

I don't like that and then never have a rebuttal.

We'll say like,

okay, I think we should do it like this.

Like what do you think about that?

I don't think so because I wanted to do it like

that. Okay.

Perfect. Carry on then.

Right. It sounds like they aren't subjective comments.

Like I don't like that.

Well, what do you even do with that comment?

Exactly. Yeah.

It's much more productive in terms of the content of what

you're saying.

That leads to a different solution.

Like if you thought it should be done differently or something

for you to,

to discuss,

to see each other's sides,

that kind of thing.

This is already great.

Because one of the things I did want to talk about

is how you guys were able to work together so well.

So we've already gotten some insight into that,

but now I want to move on Matt,

let's talk about your candle.

What does yours look like?

I'm a little more artistic than my wife.

So bear with me.

I'm very specific on what it would look like.

I would have initially said red,

cause it's my favorite color,

but I feel like a candle I would have would be

sort of like a baby or like a powder blue.

It would smell like a really strong bergamot,

Earl gray.

And it would have a quote on it from Bruce Lee.

That is like my favorite quote ever.

I'm a dedicated martial arts practitioner.

And so like,

Hey, put a lot of stock and things Bruce Lee said,

but my favorite quote is don't pray for an easy life.

Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.

That's what my accountable would be.

And do you go back and reference that a lot during

your professional career or your life In my life?

Constantly, constantly,

constantly. That's been the one.

I think thing that's tied all these different subsets of my

life together is that like,

you know,

I think we all have difficult walks.

I think we all have hard things to surmount,

but we're all given all of our experiences I think are

fairly parallel.

I think my walk is no more difficult than anyone else's,

but I find a lot of,

I don't know,

peace, I guess,

or I find a lot of grace in that line that

I don't need it to be easy.

I just need enough grace to handle it appropriately.

Well, and I'm kind of thinking like when things are tough,

then you say to yourself,

well, I didn't pray for an easy life.

That's exactly it.

It's like it sort of buffers me from whining to myself.

I think because You know,

you're going to have those stumbles in those trials and tribulation,

but as long as you're not whining about it and you're

seeing the beauty in your life,

I think that's the,

I really try and embody that also because our life is

so busy,

right? Like we work together,

we have four kids,

we live on a hobby farm.

It's just everything we do is just like fast and out

of control.

I feel like I'm constantly asking for grace and constantly looking

up in the sky asking for grace.

So this quote's a big one to me.

Well, and depending on what your beliefs are too,

right. We never get more than we can handle.

Exactly. Right.

Yep. Some days it feels more Well when you're in the

middle of it.

For sure.

Maybe when you're looking back afterwards,

you see,

oh, well this is why this came upon me or whatever.

Yep. Lane,

tell me a little bit about,

as you were growing up and the large retail stores,

give me a little more detail behind that.

Okay. So my family started this little Western store in our

tiny little town,

but they grew it to be one of the largest Western

stores in north America at the time.

And the most successful at the time and inside this tiny

little Western store was a mail order department,

a wholesale department,

a manufacturing department and a retail floor.

And I grew up in this and if I wasn't there,

we were at markets and I just kind of went through

the whole process with my parents of seeing all these different

worlds and divisions of business.

And yeah,

it was quite an experience.

I don't know if I'd say it was the best experience

having to live in a retail world your whole life.

But I grew up in this world and I had a

father that was like,

absolutely crazy about education and just pushing and driving all the

time, trying to bring in speakers about sales and bringing in

people, talking about body language.

And so I had all these different people coming into my

lives as I was growing up and I was going to

school and taking post-secondary learning from all these amazing people and

yeah, I fell into this life,

but it became something that became such a passion for me

as I got older.

Yeah. You were kind of getting an education on top of

your education.

I came back from college and I didn't think it was

something that I wanted to do.

I took fashion design and display and it came back and

I started working for my parents.

I realized very quickly that I fell into it.

So perfect.

Like I loved watching customers,

seeing customers,

how they interacted and how my staff interacted with them.

And it was one of the greatest things that I've been

blessed with.

I could say,

I love that.

So you're a real people person too,

then Not at all.

Oh, interesting.

You Know what?

It's funny too.

I'm socially awkward.

Horribly, socially awkward.

I believe you.

Based on this little conversation so far,

I don't believe you.

No, I actually have Asperger's it's crazy.

I have a very hard time feeling comfortable around people,

but my strong suit is I was able to grow up,

watching my father and watching these people and watching these experts

and being able to see this body language and really like

connect with it.

And so I just found this passion,

this obsession with sales.

So now when I'm interacting with people and customers,

I love it.

Cause it's my hobby,

it's my everything.

And I understand it so well.

But if you take me outside of that world and you

just kind of walk up to me and we're chatting about

everyday life,

it's a little bit more difficult for me,

but because I love sales and retail and market so much,

it's comfortable to me.

So it's easier for me to talk about it.

Okay. So that's interesting.

So would you say in an environment where you feel confident

you're comfortable around people and then in other environments that might

not have as much structure you're not at a market or

something then it's different.

Yeah. Yeah.

In a business setting I'm comfortable.

I'm very comfortable.

I can speak in front of thousands of people.

I can lecture.

I can talk,

I can do private consultations.

But as soon as I get outside of that other setting,

it's difficult.

And I think this just shows that we all have those

things, that our lives are so different.

And there's so many strong suits of everybody has a strong

suit. Everybody has something that they're really good at.

And for some reason I grew up in this funny retail

family that pushed me to learn these weird skills,

like who teaches their kids,

how to learn body language,

but it fit.

And it worked.

And it was something that I just,

I fell in love with.

And so,

yeah, it's my comfort zone.

Okay. You know,

and I also think that there are people who automatically have

an opinion of themselves and where their skills fall and shut

themselves off.

Like they decide that they're not good with people,

so they could never do sales.

They could never have a retail shop.

They'll make all these judgements where what you're really presenting and

suggesting us all to consider is you may act differently still

in a people environment,

in different situations you might act differently.

So my thinking is,

let's not all close ourselves off with such a,

I hate to say this line,

black and white answer,

I guess,

observe yourself and see how it is and see where you're

comfortable and try and meld that into what you do for

your business or what you add more into with your life.

Do you think For sure.

And that's something we tell our clients too,

is like,

these are learned skills.

These are learned.

I didn't just wake up one day.

I felt comfortable doing this.

It takes a lot for me to look somebody in the

eye, but I've learned how to do that.

And I can hold that gaze and I can feel confident

doing it.

I know how to express myself properly,

but it's all learned and you can learn how to do

things. You just have to be willing to put yourself out

there, be willing to fail,

be willing,

to feel embarrassed,

be willing for all of those things that go along with

learning. Because if you can get through those,

you have something pretty magical at the end of it.

If you're open to it.

Yeah. And you're challenging yourself to stretch yourself,

grow, be bigger,

learn more.

I mean,

and how exciting and satisfying is that to see when you're

successful with something that you thought you could never do before?

Exactly. I didn't ever in a million years think I could

stand on a sales floor and feel confident and put my

shoulders back and know what I'm doing.

I never would have thought that,

but you can do it.

If you can look for the right kind of training and

guidance it's anybody can do it.

So, So today when you go to market,

are you a little anxious before the market opens or are

you totally confident?

You're We're ready to go.

I am a hundred percent ready because this is my comfort

zone going to market,

working with clients,

speaking. I'm great in those areas.

But like I said,

take me outside and have a normal conversation with me.

Oh, it's more difficult.

I struggle with those things.

Well, Everyone has their own makeup with that.

I guess I would say one more question for you lane

about the retail shop.

Did you make,

cause you were talking about,

there was manufacturing,

everything under the same roof,

were you making everything that you sold?

Not everything,

but I would say a pretty big part of our business

was manufacturing and it wasn't just manufacturing for our own business.

It was manufacturing for other businesses in our world,

in our Western world,

we were manufacturing and creating products for other businesses to Like

what type of products,

just so that we have a visual here,

For sure.

So we did like strapped goods.

So it was like cultures and head stalls.

And we did blankets and we did clothing and we did

home decor and we did furniture tons and tons of different

like avenues.

So there was such a diversity of products that we were

manufacturing and working with the manufacturers designing and all that kind

of stuff that kind of gave me the ability to,

when I started going out on my own and running my

own businesses,

I was able to pull upon all that knowledge from that

to be able to jump into my own business and start

being able to manufacture and do all that.

So it was super helpful.

Got it.

Okay. And so I said,

there was only one more question,

but now I have another one.

So when you were out at markets,

were you selling wholesale to other people to pick up your

products? Not when I was going to markets,

I've owned my own boutiques online stores and other businesses.

So when I was doing it for myself,

I was manufacturing for myself and I've actually,

we've owned other businesses where we've manufactured and created products that

we've wholesaled to other businesses.

We've had paint companies,

we've had hardware companies,

so we've created our own products and then yeah.

Distributed it to all around Canada As well as selling directly

online. Exactly.

Yeah. Direct to consumer.

Okay. So you've done it all,

which is obviously why you're so successful as you're coaching.

And because you've had your hands in all these different avenues

of handmade product or manufactured product creation.

All right.

So Matt,

let's move on to you for a second.

So the thing that really stands out to me,

obviously you have the skills of manufacturing with welding,

et cetera,

but making sculpting,

fabricating, what types of things were you?

I was making everything they're literally like my brain works so

strangely, like I'll see things that I just decided that I

need to make.

I did that for years.

And I mean,

like I wasn't making things like I wasn't going to like

a hardware store and collecting stuff to put something together.

I built my own forge.

I built my own cast.

So I could like melt aluminum down,

make it into a shape and then cut it into what

I needed it and then bolted it into other things like

I was making.

I was really going overboard with what I was making when

3d printing became popular,

I got a 3d printer.

And then I was printing in 3d and sort of rendering

all these sorts of things.

But as far as manufacturing,

I literally SU like,

I'd make anything that I could see,

but I was very artistic and I was sort of in

that artistic vein,

I've done a lot of sculptures for people.

Actually. One of the thing I used to make all the

time was I used to make roses out of metal at

a sheet metal.

You see them now quite often It would make these sorts

of things or like art pieces.

That honestly is how like the maker lifestyle became sort of

apparent to me.

Like, I didn't even realize that you could do this or

that people did this.

My mum was the principal of the Catholic school.

My dad was a police officer in Canada.

Like there was a very straight and narrow way that I

was supposed to grow up.

And as I started making more and more things,

I was having more and more people say,

can I buy that from you?

And I remember it used to shock me that people would

want to buy something that I made and it just sort

of ramped up from there.

And yeah,

I started making more and more and sculpting more and more.

So were you doing this even when you were littler and

like a teenager?

Yes. Yes.

I was.

I've always been sort of driven towards making things or bolting

things together or seeing how they run by brain really loves

those kinds of things.

Like figuring out how something works,

but I'm also ridiculous fashionista.

I'm a super driven consumer.

Like I love brands.

I love products.

Like I love them.

I'm not one of those guys that says I don't want

to go to the mall and shop.

I'm like,

yeah, let's go to the mall and see what's in there.

Like let's go to a market and see what's there.

I love it.

I love it.

I love that.

You love that because that was like with me to getting

into this industry,

the idea of going to a craft show and seeing the

types of things that people make,

like when I'm going to a show and going in,

this is before I got into the business,

as it is today,

my heart would start beating faster.

I was just so excited and had such a love for

it that it was crazy.

And I tell people,

you know,

if this is something that you physically react to in a

positive way,

pay attention to that,

your body's telling you about things that make you happy.

That is such a wise thing to be saying to people,

Sue, like most people don't consider those things of what you

just said.

Like, I mean,

most people you ask them what makes you happy?

And they're going to regurgitate something,

but what you just said,

move towards what moves you.

And this will all work out.

Yeah. But I would say also like you,

a lot of people even now still don't recognize that this

could be your profession Completely.

And there's of course a lot of backlash too.

No, I want you to be a lawyer.

Oh, you're so smart.

You should be an accountant.

You're so good with numbers.

Yeah. But I don't like numbers.

Totally. I know what you mean because that's the house I

grew up in.

Right. Like my parents,

weren't trying to stop me from pursuing things.

I enjoyed all they understood was the pattern that you're supposed

to come out of the mold you're supposed to come out

of. So I loved making things,

but I didn't understand even what a business person was.

Right. I didn't understand.

Like I thought you worked for people.

That's what people do for money.

Like you're a teacher or you're a police officer or you're

a firefighter or you're and that's exclusively sort of what you

did. But as I got older and saw that,

oh my gosh,

like people actually do these things for a living.

I remember I was just like floored by it.

I was floored that people did these.

Yeah. And it's more acceptable now than it ever has been.

So for people who are interested,

we're living in a great time where you can stretch your

creative skills and actually make a living salary off of it.

If you want to it's open and available and acceptable.

It used to not even be acceptable,

I'll go back and forth.

Cause I think a little bit sometimes,

oh, that's so nice.

That cute little hobby that you're doing,

you know,

that kind of Completely,

but I think lane can speak to this more,

but I find the people that we find are becoming successful,

that we're mentoring or that we work with or that we're

working directly with.

You have that mentality,

Sue, that they're like,

I love this.

I am going to pursue this as hard as I possibly

can. And I'm going to make this work.

And those people always find a way to make it work.

Like they just do Like what you you're big on like

law of attraction.

And so are we like,

that's something that very is like,

that's kind of our mantra and our life is,

you know,

law of attraction and how that works.

And then we see so many people in this industry and

the maker community,

the craft community that they're so in love with what they're

doing and it's everything.

Sometimes you look at some of these businesses and you go,

how are you doing this?

Like this isn't supposed to work this isn't oh my gosh,

this little hobby,

like you said.

Right. But they put their heart and soul into it.

And so much of the success is off of that is

off of you just believing in yourself to begin with.

I think so.

I agree.

And to this day there are some clients that I have

where I'm surprised that they're as financially successful as they are

with the products that they sell.

For sure.

Now that you say that it goes back to the passion

and the determination.

And honestly,

I have to say also it has to do with the

personality overlay that they put on top of the product.

People want to buy it because they love them too.

Okay. Oh,

a hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

But there's been so many businesses that Matt and I've done

like individually together that we just didn't have the passion.

We were really good at it.

And some of it flops,

some of it was great,

but it just wasn't what we were supposed to be doing.

It wasn't our a hundred percent passion.

And it sort of,

our life mantra has everything to do with the law of

attraction and sort of the marquee people that spoke about it.

And we've had a lot of businesses together.

Like if you looked at it on paper and I mean,

technically it went well because we had the skills to make

it go well.

But it wasn't one of those things that you,

we were so passionate about that we were waking up early

and going to bed late,

doing it was sort of like,

okay, well let's go through the motions and get this thing

done and onto the next one.

And we really find that the things that we really dug

in that we'd love the product.

We love the service.

We loved what we were doing.

It goes exponentially better than just us saying like,

oh, well we know how to manufacture.

We know what a market we can distribute.

Let's do this.

Now we see those fall downs.

Now that it's like,

if you're,

I don't know,

there's something to this law of attraction,

right? If,

if you are not on board with what you're doing,

I don't think it can work.

I don't believe it can work on technicalities.

Like you have to support yourself mentally with positive thought and

loving it to have it really succeed.

I really believe that.

That's interesting.

And I think that is going to give some of our

listeners a pause to think and consider and a question for

you here.

Did you ever have a product that financially was going well?

So on paper,

the numbers look great,

but you're like,

you know,

we just don't feel it.

Oh yeah.

So the answer is yes to that.

Then how do you decide to walk away from an opportunity

like that?

Where you see the numbers are looking good,

people would be like,

stay with it.

You know,

for sure.

Going back to our pink company,

we were doing so well with it.

It was something that was working for us.

It was selling great in our retail store,

it was selling great to our wholesale customers.

We were growing it,

but we disliked it.

We didn't just like the product we disliked what we were

doing and the direction we were going.

And we're so big on with our kids.

We want you to be educated for those mere fact of

that. At the end of your grade 12 year,

you get to decide what you want to do.

That's it.

You can do anything you want.

And we keep telling them over and over how important it

is to do something you truly love do what you love.

Everything else will calm you.

If you can get through high school and you have the

good grades,

you can go choose any school you want.

You can do whatever you want,

whether it's trade school or whatnot,

but to be able to choose something that you're so passionate

about, it's going to lead you forward.

Whether that is that thing that you stick with or it's

that thing that drives you to the next thing.

But the money,

always everything.

I mean,

I love money don't we all,

but, But not.

But I think that we are in a strange position,

Sue, and that like where you said,

how do you decide if you have a product that's working,

if you're going to switch gears or not.

So I think that lane and I not in the business

world, but in the maker world,

we're in a unique position where you don't find many people

in the maker world who I think understand from top to

bottom, what they should be doing to execute what would make

it work.

And because we just have those skills,

those skills are interchangeable regardless of what you're selling or what

you're making.

But if you don't love it,

it's so easy for us now.

Like we have this joke now about our gut feelings.

Like we literally will make decisions on gut feelings.

Like if we are doing something big and it is without

fail, it works for us.

Like if we're doing something big and one of us is

uneasy about it,

if, whether it's weird,

it doesn't matter what it is.

If it's like a something large we're doing in our life

or business life,

we'll just pull the plug.

If one of us says,

like, it doesn't feel good,

we're not doing it.

And we'll just leave it at that.

It's like,

no, there's something was wrong with that.

If that's the case,

but there's been Going through trials and tribulations and flops and

All people just pull the pin.

Cause you have a gut feeling like we've laid so many

decisions and understand like you were talking about that feeling in

your body that we're like,

no, this doesn't work for us.

So onto the next thing.

Yeah. Well,

I got to say,

I mean,

I believe in the gut feelings and I think you have

to balance that out against where your situation is.

I mean,

I've had some gut feelings afterwards.

It's like I knew before I even started that I shouldn't

have done this.

And that's helped me to recognize it earlier each and every

time. Oh you do though.

Right? Like,

and that also goes into failures.

You go through those failures,

those flops,

those uncomfortable situations.

And you understand for the next time you start feeling those

feelings, you start understanding that world in that space you're walking

into and you're like this isn't right.

I know this.

I felt this before.

And you're able to address those situations a lot faster.

Sure. I see a lot of people in the community who

have made something and it have gone to one consumer show.

So not to the trade,

but direct to consumer and they didn't sell a thing.

And so they're like,

I can't sell,

nobody likes my product.

They'll give all the excuses.

I can't do this.

I'm not put together for this,

this isn't something I should be doing.

What would you say to that person,

Mark your calendar January 21st has been officially declared national bakers.

Crafters maker's day actually highlight the entire month because we're celebrating

all month long,

focusing on the good that handmade products and you as a

maker, provide us whether you create as a hobby or have

started a business around your craft this day celebrates you.

There's lots of ways to join in the festivities,

share a special handmade memory with us.

Download my free gift,

which is an affirmation poster that you can print and display

or use as a background on your phone,

reminding you every day about the joy that you put out

into the world.

I also see the giving heart.

You have as a maker,

maybe you donate handmade items to local shelters or hospitals,

or you put on workshop fundraisers or commit a portion of

product sales to a special cause here's your chance to highlight

your activities and get ideas of what others are doing too.

Plus you can get some eyeballs on a charity that is

near and dear to your heart.

Come at January 21st,

we have special 20 minute lifestyle classes.

You can attend over on the gift biz,

unwrapped Facebook page.

And if you're aspiring or are already a business owner,

there are other festivities planned inside gift biz breeze,

which is the free Facebook group.

Come join us.

There. There is even more,

too much to cover here,

but you can see it all for yourself right now.

over@handmadehealstheworld.com handmade heals.

The world is our theme this year because your efforts do

make a difference and our world needs the healing right now.

Go check it out.

Hand-made heals the world.com

a celebration of you.

And now let's get back to our conversation with lane and

Matt. You know,

I think it's a big misconception when somebody says I've tried

everything, it's not working,

nobody's buying what we've run into the majority of the time

with our S not with ourselves,

but with our clients that we're servicing is what usually is

happening is one.

They haven't tried everything.

They've missed certain areas that they may not see.

They may not understand how they work and they may see

the problems in their businesses,

but they're too scared to address them.

So that's one thing.

And two,

a huge problem is people are terrified to sell.

They're terrified.

They will make product.

They will display product.

They will do a beautiful market booth or retail store.

They'll put everything together and then they wonder why it's not

selling because they forgot that huge part of the package and

the packages,

understanding your customers,

understanding what their needs are,

understanding how to sell to them properly without being pushy and

cheesy and over the top.

And then being able to address those customers after.

So you,

we can utilize them again and have them back and have

a relationship.

Those are all areas that are missed.

So I think to kind of wrap it up,

I would say,

knowing where your holes are,

knowing why product is not selling,

not just,

it's not selling,

why is it not selling?

What have we missed?

What are you not addressing?

What skills can we maybe give you to make you feel

more comfortable so that we're doing everything we can to get

this product selling And everyone's different,

right? Like,

you know,

I mean,

I'll go to craft shows for example,

and someone will have a beautiful table,

the displays gorgeous.

It's understandable.

Everything's priced.

It's very clear.

They're sitting behind the table on their cell phone.

Oh, like that one person,

you know,

another person in another booth is like right behind your back,

looking at your,

every move,

not leaving you alone,

for sure.

There are different things for different people.

No follow up all the things that you're saying.

For sure.

So to the person who's saying,

I've tried this one that doesn't work for me.

Your point is you haven't tried everything and maybe focusing on

different aspects of selling,

which encompasses a lot.

Like that's a big thing based on what you were just

saying lane.

Yeah. And I think asking there's so many places to look

for help,

but that can sometimes be a negative thing too.

And I think looking for the right type of help and

people that actually have been in like yourself soup,

that you've started a retail business.

You've been in that kind of world.

You understand wholesale,

you understand manufacturing,

you understand what markets are,

you understand sales,

then you can start seeing,

like we were saying the holes or the problems,

or why is this not working?

I think Sue,

like the main thing where lane said and what we recommend

to all of our customers,

like I'll bet this is 90% or 95% of the problems

that our clients have or businesses we're working with.

It literally is you to a customer sale is the biggest

gap. And that's where,

like, if it's a sales issue,

what we mean by that is it doesn't matter what you

are. If you're going to craft shows,

like if you're a Soper,

a jewelry maker or a woodworker,

whatever, I really believe that the biggest thing that you can

do for yourself is learn face to face sales,

toe, to toe speaking to someone.

That's what you need to focus on because so much becomes

clear about what you're doing,

why you're there,

what they want to hear.

So many people don't consider what their market wants to hear

from them or how their clients or customers speak.

This was a huge lesson for me in my own maker

life, right?

Like I'm a welder and a fitter by trade.

I suppose I was 25 years old,

26 when I was right in the thick of,

I was making things constantly with a huge turnover.

But the majority of the people that were buying from me

were women that were 55 years old and up,

I was speaking a different language than they were.

If they came to me,

it was easy because I'd say like,

well, this is what you like,

right? Yeah.

This is what I like.

But when I'd go to markets,

I assumed that people that wanted my stuff were guys my

age who were like,

oh, I like metal work.

And it wasn't at all.

So just understanding those basic sales things,

but it'll change the entire dynamic of how you do things

once you start to understand it.

I also think too though,

that a lot of like how many times have you heard

it Sue that like when you start mentoring or working with

clients, they're like,

I don't want to say,

I don't want to be pushy.

I don't want to talk somebody into my product that doesn't

want it.

I just don't know what to say.

And Like Matt was saying,

you just have to know the right ways to say it

so that you can be comfortable so that your clients can

be comfortable.

And so that everybody has a great relationship and exchange in

words, I should say.

Yeah, I totally agree with everything you said,

gosh, I wish we were closer to each other because we'd

have so much fun together.

But I also think that people over think it like the

way you're going to find the right words and the right

approach is by interacting and figuring it out.

You can't script it behind a closed door.

And then all of a sudden on the floor magically,

it works.

You have to kind of walk into what that right approach

is by trying it and trying it over and over again

Completely. And I have a saying that I say to every

single one of our clients and everyone that listens to me

about anything with businesses,

you have to fail faster.

You have to like,

you have to embrace failure.

If you can't speak to people,

you have to be prepared to go to a craft show.

And literally in your mind,

you have to say like,

I'm going to do my best.

It will be your best for that moment.

And it might go great.

But when you look back on that in three years,

you're going to be like,

wow, that wasn't the best I could have done.

But that's the only thing that tempers you is you have

to throw yourself into those fires and be like,

okay, I can figure this out and I can figure this

out. And that's overwhelming because most of the people that are

probably listening are like,

how do you throw yourself into the fire?

But I think those are easy,

little baby steps.

We baby step our clients through this,

especially sales.

Cause it's super scary and intimidating,

but like,

we'll just start with basics like greetings.

Okay. Here's some greetings that we would use for your business.

Why don't you try these?

Let's write them down.

Let's try three of them for this market.

And let's see how you feel about them.

How are we getting interactions?

Are people starting to engage with you?

What's happening really looking at those things and just starting with

that little baby step,

then once that's learned,

then we go to the next thing.

Just being able to discuss your product,

et cetera.

Yeah. I agree.

Baby steps for sure.

And some of it can just be saying hi,

All right.

Just engaging.

Yeah. If someone's just walking by,

Hey, good morning.

Isn't it a beautiful day today?

You know,

if it's an outside show exactly.

Or, oh my gosh,

I want some lemonade.

Where did you get that?

No. Right.

But they're just basics.

And I think people think that they have to be so

much more and our favorite is ask them about the weather

comment on their clothes.

Give them some sort of a compliment,

like just easy ones.

Like what lane said about the weather.

So, and we love this and we say this in particular

to our clients that are really sort of reserved.

And they're like,

they're so nervous.

And we say like,

ask people about the weather because there are two kinds of

people on the planet,

people that are going to tell you how great it is

outside. And people are going to tell you how gross it

is outside without fail.

So it's going to start you in a conversation.

So ask every single person,

regardless if you're inside or outside,

how's the weather outside right now.

It's always going to be,

oh my gosh,

it's so gross.

Or you know what?

It's beautiful outside.

There's your introduction.

There you go.

Yep. For sure.

What are you seeing given the last couple of years here?

Are you seeing anything changing within the industry?

Yes. A lot.

We're looking at each other.

We're like,

This is the biggest thing we've seen.

The biggest thing that I've seen is from a builder's perspective

when I was making products,

my biggest concern was going to shows.

I'm so surprised now at like at the amount that we

were in a market this weekend SU there was 160 vendors

I think.

And like it was a full booth show,

a full booth Christmas show.

They weren't set up just on tables.

And there was like 130,

140 vendors.

And of that 40 had never sold at a market with

their products in their life.

That number is unbelievable to me,

The new businesses popping up and the people that feel that

they can do this and that they're supported like that jumps

into like this community over competition thing.

This theme that we're seeing,

that wasn't around.

When I was going to markets,

taking my product to markets,

there was no community over competition.

There was a few people that I recognized and you'd say

hello, but there was no supporting each other.

You was a gunfight.

Like, I don't know if it was the same way for

you, but it was you guard your products,

you guard your business.

It was a different world.

And now it's amazing because he's women and these men are

truly supporting one another.

They're guiding one another.

They're reaching out to one another.

They create groups together.

It's absolutely unbelievable.

I wish we had this when I was younger.

Yeah. Well it just feels so much better.

The whole industry feels so much better when we're supporting each

other and I've heard two different topics here.

One is the sheer number of new people who are deciding

something that they create could be a business and I'm giving

it a run to see if it's going to work.

And then to just the overall support of each other now

That's absolutely it.

So, but to us,

I think we see it as one topic because these vendors

like, cause we at this market,

we were doing a bunch of filming and we went around

and we spoke to every single new vendor and every single

one said the exact same thing.

I am a part of a hub.

I am a part of a group.

I'm a part of a,

some sort of support structure where they really instilled in me

the confidence,

the confidence to pursue this.

And so it's like this community over competition and the support

within sort of this niche of business so much is coming

out of the support within the community where before it was

like, if you were going to do it,

it was like,

you really had to sort of bite down on your mouth

guard and see if you can make it work where there's

so many people now that are supporting what you might possibly

want to do.

Yeah. You're not in a silo anymore trying to figure it

all out.

No. And you know,

we saw so many new vendors like this year alone,

we had a 98% rate of new business owners that were

mentoring with us for the year 98% of them were brand

new first year never started.

And that's kind of what led us into this.

Like we came up with a whole bunch of products this

year, just for those people,

because we saw such an influx of new business owners that

had no idea what they were doing.

They were trying so hard just to get into this world

and be successful.

And it's just wild.

It's pretty cool to see.

It sounds so exciting.

I love the interaction between you two.

I mean,

it just feels so good to be part of your community

must be just absolutely fabulous.

We're just like,

we are obsessed.

So like,

we literally are like,

we're obsessed With,

I heard that word before somewhere.

Gosh, put it early.

Like it's not a joke that it ended up being like

that. Cause like we'll even at this market,

we were just out,

right? Like we believe in these people and selling their products

so much.

A lot of it is the maker in me that the

didn't know how to do it.

I am just determined to find every single person who isn't

sure how to sell it up market and give them the

skills to do it because you've got it.

You have it.

It's learnable.

It is it's learnable and it just breaks my heart.

You know like the question you said earlier with,

what do you say to someone who says I've tried it

all? Oh,

you haven't tried it.

I'll just keep going.

Just keep going a little bit longer.

You will figure it out,

but don't give up on it.

Don't don't don't don't I agree with you because it's heartbreaking

because they've had a dream,

they were so excited in the beginning and then they're deciding

for themselves that it just can't work For sure.

But that's just,

it is you don't have to know everything.

You are not created to know everything.

You were good at making you're good at creating.

Maybe you're good at social media or maybe you're good at

this element of your business.

You don't have to know everything.

So don't feel like you have to go outsource,

go find,

go educate yourself.

Absolutely. Talk with me more about obsessed with markets.

What it's about,

what's included and who it's for.

So obsessed with markets is the umbrella that we do everything

under, but in particular,

we made this last year,

like lane was saying with all these new vendors,

we were spending so much time on the same topics that

we wrote.

A hand guide that we called the vendor market hand guide.

That's on our website,

obsessed with markets.

There's 12 chapters in it.

And it's the top items I think are the top sort

of talking points we were having with clients.

Or we were having with people,

that markets where we included everything from our own experience about,

I think one of the main things we heard from everyone

was how do you display at a market?

And so we broke down the ways that we display and

why we broke down,

what you should bring with you And everything in that,

like, we really,

like, we went into depth with,

because my background is like designed display all that manufacturing.

So we went into in-depth like Matt said with display,

like, how do you actually display to draw customers in,

what do you need to do to draw them in,

to make them feel comfortable?

Where do you need to be displaying your products?

What kind of eye level did they need to be at?

And then we just kind of hit all those important topics

of how do you engage with your customers when they're walking

by, without screaming and yelling at them,

how do you connect with them when they get into your

booth? How do you explain to them,

your products without being pushy?

How do you connect with them after you have the market?

Are you getting collecting their emails?

Are you using a topic or card or what are you

doing? So we just really focused on this book and then

some offshoot books about social media and building a fan base.

But it just was more to us about if we can

give these people,

this little Bible of this hand guide that can fix all

their problems in a nutshell,

then their lives are going to be so much easier going

forward this first year is going to be a piece of

cake going forward,

if you can build on those skills.

Right. Those just those basic skills.

Yeah. Yes.

I think you've piqued the curiosity of a lot of people

who are listening here.

Are we able to get our hands on that guide?

It's on our website.

If you go to obsessed with markets.com,

it's the vendor market hand guide is on there where there's

a breakdown of everything that's in there on our site,

but we find soup with our clients.

Like the main thing I think that's really helped them is

we've tried so many different ways to coach people and we've

tried so many different ways to support them.

And I think we really dialed that in with his hand

guide. Cause it's a small little thing it's notes,

but what we did in it more than anything was give

actionable items.

And the one thing we keep hearing about from these crafters,

these makers,

these builders,

these artisans that have it is we have a module in

particular, literally about sales within those sales chapters,

we give a sales script that we use.

All it is,

is plug and play at every single person that reads it.

Every single one without exception has gotten back to us and

said, I had no idea that this was sales.

I didn't realize that all it was establishing a relationship and

asking the right questions.

And if that person really is interested,

then you keep talking to them.

And if not,

you just had a nice conversation.

It's really helped people to,

I think,

grab on to this lifestyle and understand it in a way

that they're like,

okay, I can do this now.

Yeah. I love it.

Okay so if people want to know more,

just go over to your website,

obsessed with market and look for the guide and then they

can learn more about what's in it.

And then whatever happens for them to have access to that

information. You bet,

and our Instagram or Facebook and our YouTube,

we're all obsessed with markets as well.

And we've got piles of,

And we're coming out with a ton of new videos for

our YouTube channel to help market vendors be more confident in

market. So we're really going to answer and address a lot

of problems that they're having.

So we hope that helps.

And what is your YouTube channel?

Obsessed with Markets also.

Now I could have guessed that and I would have won

the bet everywhere.

Obsessed with markets,

right. We're obsessed With market.

Perfect. Okay.

So we have a listener who recently found the podcast.

They make soaps at home for themselves,

just for fun.

They keep going,

gosh, should I try and start a business?

Should I not?

Should I,

should I not?

What do you say to them?

They've done nothing yet.

Other than they love the product that they make and they've

gotten compliments on it.

Okay. Two things.

One get the vendor market hand guide to get Sue's book,

because those are going to be your Bibles for the next

little while.

Get resources,

get help.

We're all about education.

Come on,

watch our videos.

We're going to put it very basic.

We're going to make it super easy,

but take a chance on yourself.

If you don't take a chance,

you're never going to have that feeling.

And this feeling is amazing.

Being in this community is amazing.

So it's so worth it.

Try it.

I would say to that person that I do research with

everything. So if that person is making soap,

I'd be clear about what I was doing and who I

was trying to reach.

And then I would start looking around at what's working for

someone else.

What could potentially work for me?

Is there an opportunity here and actually your book,

that was the one thing that laid it out in your

books that we were like,

oh my gosh,

we're the same people.

How exactly close we are in thoughts.

Really? I love that in your book,

you speakable it.

Like you listen to your friends,

but not necessarily on a business idea or what's happening within

your business.

And that happens to our clients.

So much someone will call us or someone will get ahold

of us and be like,

my girlfriends love this.

My guy,

friends love this.

I'm ready to go to a market.

And we're like,

have you tried this out on anybody?

Who's a neutral perspective.

Have you tested this market yet?

Or, I mean,

that, that's how every single thing starts.

But I think if you're interested,

your friends have said,

this is a good idea.

I would just do a little bit of research and then

I would dive in feet first.

I'd go to a market,

try it out,

see where you land For sure.

And make sure you have a strong niche because that's going

to be a big helper with your business.

If you're copying everybody's designs and kind of just following their

ideas, it's going to be a lot harder to get noticed.

And if you have that exciting niche,

that's something that makes you stand out.

Then you're going to have a lot easier chance,

Right? You don't have to make a better soap.

You need to make a different soap Exactly.

Or stand for something different.

That's exactly right.

Like what you just said,

you don't have to reinvent the wheel,

but you need to know who you are.

You need to know what you're offering and you need to

keep doubling down on that while concerning yourself with you and

not everybody else.

Exactly. Oh my gosh.

We could talk all day.

Honestly. I wish I lived closer to you because that would

just be amazing.

I already had said that before,

and I feel like just the conversation we've had the passion

in both of your voices in terms of being part of

a community that's so giving and let's face it.

So fun.

The things that makers create are so individual number one,

so beautiful.

The heart that comes with it,

there's so much passion around it that I can hear it

in your voice,

how much you love what you're doing.

We really want to see this community grow.

We're both so passionate about that.

It's like,

we've talked about this lot.

It's like Layne and I have both done marketing and advertising

in the corporate world.

And it's just not what this is like.

This is so much fun.

It's so much fun.

It's so much fun.

Yeah. It's wonderful.

And thank you so much for starting obsessed with markets because

to your point,

people need help so that their dreams don't die and that's

what you're providing to the community.

And that's also what you've provided here on the show today.

So for that,

I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us.

All of your wisdom,

Matt and lane.

I really appreciate it.

Thanks. So We appreciate you having a son.

Okay. So I've jumped over to Matt and Lane's website to

check out the craft show and makers market hand guide.

It's currently only $7 and covers all the points you need

to get started or perfect.

Your craft show strategy.

You need to take a look at this right away,

so it doesn't slip your mind seriously for $7.

I would grab it now.

And while you're at your computer,

remember to go check out all the celebratory events happening around

national bakers,

crafters and makers day.

You can find that over@handmadehealstheworld.com

up next week.

We'll be looking at Pinterest again to get updates and additional

insight into this platform.

This is definitely one you don't want to miss.

And the best way to do that is follow the podcast.

If you haven't already that way,

this episode will automatically be downloaded when it's ready and it'll

be waiting for you right on your phone and now be

safe and well.

And I'll see you again next week on the gift biz

unwrapped podcast.

I want to make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook

group called gift is free.

It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reactions from other people and just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making my favorite posts every single week,

without doubt.

Wait, what,

aren't you part of the group already,

if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search

for the group gift biz breeze don't delay.