396 – Find the Words to Spice Up your Brand with Lucy Bedewi

Gift is unwrapped.

Episode 396.

Something happens when we get in front of that Google Doc

and it's blank and that cursor's staring at us in the

face. Attention,

Gifters, bakers,

crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one,

now you are in the right place.

This is Gift Biz Unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources and the support you need to grow your gift biz.

Here is your host Gift Biz gal Sue Moon Height.

Hi there,

it's Sue and thanks for joining me here on the show.

Today you're gonna walk away with at least one,

probably more ways you can make your language more enticing to

your customers,

all while staying true to your brand and natural way of

speaking. This topic has been something I've been thinking about a

lot even before I met Lucy.

Whether I'm talking or typing,

I've noticed I gravitate to the same words over and over

again. They aren't bad words,

but they've gotten boring with overuse.

Beautiful. So creative,

that's wonderful.

And I'm excited are all authentic and heartfelt.

Except I know I can do better to bring more spice

to my messages.

I'm thinking adding more pizazz will be entertaining for you too.

Making emails more fun to read social posts,

more shareable and overall separate my copy and content from the

crowd. You can do this too to make your brand stand

out. Lucy's here to show us the way.

Today we're gonna learn how to make our messaging more impactful

through a conversation with Lucy Bode.

Lucy is a personality driven copywriter and owner of my right

hand woman who specializes in crafting copy for businesses that want

to make a mark online.

She says,

Your copy is the salesperson who works for you 24 hours

a day,

seven days a week.

If you've got that amount of work out of a person,

well that would be illegal.

Lucy has worked with a variety of companies ranging from growing

solopreneurs to multimillion dollar brands.

Her signature skill,

she uses client brand voice and zesty humor to help them

stand out online,

create a fun brand experience and scale much faster.

Lucy, you're just who we need here today.

Welcome to the gift quiz on Rev podcast.

Thank you so much.

I'm so excited.

Me too.

I have to tell you,

we've been talking topics for blogs,

how to write emails,

but we've never really talked about the style of writing and

talking, so super excited to dive into that.

But before we do,

I wanna ask you another question to get to know you

in a little more of a creative way,

and that is through a motivational candle.

So if you were to think of a candle,

you just envision one that totally speaks you,

what would your candle look like by a color quote or

any other creative things you'd like to add to it?

Oh, I love this.

I think when I think of a candle,

the first thing that comes to mind would be the scent.

And when Yankee candle was really big,

I was obsessed with buttercream.

So it would have to be something in the vanilla,

something's baking something delicious realm.

And then in terms of color,

definitely hot pink.

I would be very on brand with that choice.

And a motivational quote for my candle would be just because

you dim your own light doesn't make other people's light shine

brighter. Because I'm all about making sure that you are showing

up the vest is yourself so that everyone around you can

glow. I like the approach that you took to this.

You have control over how bright your light shines,

so why would you wanna dim yours?

Absolutely. And it's kind of leading to the idea to me

that you know how we can all be bubbly in person.

Like if you and I were sitting over coffee,

let's say we'd talk,

we'd chatter,

we'd laugh,

we'd be ourselves,

we'd be friendly,

et cetera.

The second we'd get in front of an audience or the

second we'd get in front of our screen cuz we have

to write something,

there's like this filter that comes over us and we dim

our light then I think.

Absolutely. I mean you said the magic word you said,

if we were sitting and having coffee on your couch,

you know we would just be talking casually about your business,

your offers,

what lights you up.

But something happens when we get in front of that Google

doc and it's blank and that cursor's staring at us in

the face where we're like,

okay, now I need to just put that all away.

But the truth is you need to bring all of that,

that casualness,

that fun,

that personality,

cuz that's really what helps things elevate.

It sounds a lot easier than it is,

right? Yes,

I totally in agreement that Statement because I realize it.

I think personally I've gotten better at that.

I just try to write as if I'm writing to a

friend or writing to like,

I'll think of one or two clients and pretend like I'm

just writing to them because it's a topic we've talked about

together recently or something.

But it's still difficult.

It's still hard to do.

And I know that this is a wall,

I'll say that a lot of us can't get over,

hence we never do start writing our blog or we never

do start an email strategy.

We know we should,

but when we get to it,

it just feels too difficult or we feel like we're being

too vulnerable maybe.

I think that's a big one,

especially vulnerability and authenticity.

I mean those are two very big buzzwords,

but it's like where is the line?

Like how can we be more authentic?

How can we be more vulnerable in our business without feeling

like our deepest darkest secrets are out on display all the

time? So that is such a common thing that people will

tell me.

Yeah, and let's face it,

we can still decide what we're gonna talk about.

It's not like we have to be a hundred percent open

book, but it's how do you make the things that you

talk about stand out and sound interesting and beyond brand?

And I know we're gonna get to this,

but you impressed me so much with just all these fun

words you have.

Thank you.

I don't even know where they all come from and maybe

we're gonna get into that and you'll share some secrets,

but tell me how you got started and having this be

your interest for a business.

Yeah, so I got started fresh out of college.

I knew from my senior year that I don't think I'd

be very happy in a corporation just because I've always been

one of those people who wants to do things my way

and doesn't take authority very well.

And that's something I do know about myself.

So when the pandemic hit and I was like,

Okay, well I'm not gonna get a job anyways,

it kind of turned into this thing of well let me

just go all in,

let me try it.

This is a really great time for me to just do

it and see what happens.

And if it fails,

it fails.

And at this point I had been a writer for about

seven years writing for a food publication and I actually was

able to gain some traction with my articles because I would

try these crazy celebrity diets for a week and talk about

what happened.

And as I'm sure any listener can realize,

they probably took a crazy turn for the left sometimes.

So that was my way of being able to express myself

and connect with people through writing.

So becoming a copywriter was kind of a natural progression,

but I think the toughest part was thinking,

okay, well now how can I take my love of writing,

mix it with my marketing degree and create a business that

can actually support me and help other female entrepreneurs grow.

I think it's perfect because,

and especially when we talk about teaching other people how to

write in their own voice,

not many people are doing that.

I mean,

we can all hire ghost writers to write blog articles for

us. I mean I even have some client who have other

people writing their emails for them and I've done that too.

But you still need your voice.

Yeah. And you still need to be able to word it

with the personality of your brand and all of that.

And even if you have someone writing for you,

you have to note what it is to be able to

relay it to them so they can do it for you.

Yes. So were you loving like what do you call it

now, creative writing as you were growing up in school,

Was this just a natural to you all this time?

Oh absolutely.

I mean if my mom was here,

she would say that I had lined paper like just thrown

around my childhood bedroom as a kid with like stories upon

stories, like mostly just realistic fiction writing about my experiences.

And she was like,

Okay, my child is crazy.

It's how I expressed myself and I just had such an

affinity for it from a young age.

And then I just feel so fortunate that I was able

to kind of connect the dots and now I get to

wake up and do it every day.

So it aligns with something that naturally has come to you

all this whole time your whole life.

Yeah. And now it just gets to be amplified and people

actually get to read my stuff,

which is really cool too.

Read your stuff and we need your direction badly.

We do.

So let's circle this around to our listeners here.

I don't know if we've all thought about the fact that

we need to write and have it match our brand.

I mean we've talked a little bit about this in terms

terms of adjectives of how you would define your brand,

but not necessarily you as the writer for your brand.

So how would you start talking to us about that?

Yeah, I mean if I would say if you are very

new, like you've never even thought of this concept before,

the best thing you can do is figure out how you

naturally speak.

If you've ever had a corporate job or even if you

had like a strong education,

if you went to college,

took a bunch of English classes,

chances are you were taught how to write and how to

speak in a way that is on paper very good and

very coherent,

but it's not the way that people talk and it's hard

to make that readable because it's a little bit too formal

for what we're going for with web copy.

So I would say take out your voice notes,

this is gonna be the fringiest thing you ever do,

and record yourself explaining your offers as you would to your

mom, your best friend if you were meeting a client for

coffee. And that is definitely the best way to think,

Okay, well how would I describe what I'm making or what

I'm baking or the product that I have?

How would I say this to someone who I'm really close

to? And that is such a great way when you go

back and listen to that voice memo,

you know you're gonna hear your own voice,

but you can kind of see the patterns.

Maybe you say y'all and you're like,

oh wait,

why didn't I write y'all in my web copy?

Like that's how I talk.

So you'll be able to see the different mannerisms and the

patterns in how you're speaking and then transcribe it to the

page. And then if you've already kind of done that,

I mean maybe not that exact thing,

but you wanna kick things up a notch,

that's when I like to kind of give the visual of

a Venn diagram.

You have how you speak in one circle,

but then you have how people want to be spoken to

and how your brand presents itself.

So that's the more inception mind complex like thinking.

But think about who's actually buying your products.

Is it women who are new moms,

they're in their early thirties.

Is it women who have just retired?

Is it men?

Is it students that are maybe 14,

15 in high school?

How would they speak because your brand needs to speak to

the way that they're naturally speaking to each other And that

feels comfortable for them to receive.

Yes. I mean I've had a couple of emails come to

me, well not just a couple,

but people that I do business with that I learn from,

but they're emails,

it just doesn't relate to me and it feels like a

disconnect. It almost makes me rethink like is this the right

person that I should be working with just in words that

are on an email.

So I mean that's just reinforcing to me exactly what you're

saying here.

And I'm thinking if you're listening,

if you can think back to some emails that just didn't

land well for you when you opened them,

that's where there's a disconnect in the Venn diagram,

right Lucy?

Because it's your voice and your customer's voice and how do

you intersect those two in a real way,

right, in a genuine way.

And that's where the magic happens,

I'm Guessing for sure.

I mean you just hit the now on the head with

words are powerful and you know,

even if you have something that's beautifully designed or a product

that's just absolutely fabulous,

like that is a very important part of the equation.

But the way people are gonna connect with you and become

a fan for life is what they read is how they

talk to you.

And I'm assuming you're not getting on the phone with everyone

who's ever bought your product.

So by talking to them through your email and not treating

email like something that you write every week to just write

it, same goes for your website.

You can actually speak to every single person who comes into

your world.

How do you confirm that the way you talk like that

intersection area,

that the way you talk is really hitting the mark with

your audience?

There's a few things you can do.

I mean I am also a little bit of a data

head. So you can look at your analytics if you notice

that maybe your open rates are really high for your email

or you're getting a lot of traffic to your website,

but it's just not converting,

people aren't taking that next action,

whether it's clicking a CTA button or adding something to their

cart or actually making that purchase.

Well then there's the disconnect.

You're like,

okay, well I'm getting eyeballs on my site,

but those eyeballs aren't turning into fans.

So that would be something where I'd say,

okay, well let's go back to that intersection and see if

there's something that's off.

I mean it could be a million factors,

but usually it's a disconnect in the messaging.

And then you can also look at analytics and data.

You can kind of,

when you test different headlines,

different subject lines,

see what's performing,

see what people are resonating with,

ask people who bought from you like what made you buy

my product?

And chances are what they're gonna say is gonna be a

combination of your amazing product and how you communicated it.

They might not even realize potentially that it's the wording that

you're using that either makes them really interested and push the

buy button or doesn't they just be saying,

well you as a person,

like in what you stand for,

they might not specifically say,

Well it's because of the beautifully worded emails,

Loved your subject,

like not to purchase,

Which I wanna get to some of that also,

but to the point that you made a little while ago,

depending on where we fall in the generations,

you know,

I mean I know when I was in school everything was

perfect English period and you know all it is not it,

you know if you're gonna write formally and all that.

And I feel like in this day and age we need

to get out of that.

To your point,

you should be writing the way you talk,

right? So people when they're reading it can almost even hear

your voice coming through in their head,

right? Absolutely.

I mean I always joke English teachers would scream if they

saw the way I'm writing and the way I'm selling my

writing, they'd be like,

That's a fragment,

that's a run like,

and I'm like,

no, no,

I'm just making it so people buy things.

And the truth is people don't read the same way they

would read like an amazing piece of prose or literature.

They're just clicking on your website giving it a quick skim

and being like,

Oh okay cool.

I guess I could use a candle adding it to cart

and purchasing or leaving the website.

So you're writing for a very different purpose than you would

be if you were looking to like flex that perfect grammar.

Yeah. So if you're writing for a book,

it's a whole different story than if you're writing on your

website or an email,

et cetera.

Absolutely. Okay,

So that's really,

really good to know.

I have to ask you this cuz this is such a

pet peeve for me,

the salutation line dear,

whatever. Right.

Do you have any recommendations on that?

And the reason I ask is I always like to use

and every email provider now allows you to just merge in

our first name.

But you know,

you'll have people do these creative salutation lines like hey friend,

or what's up Go friend.

Or you know like all these things that when they're not

used well are a real turn off.

What do you think about that?

You know,

some of the customization that might come in,

I'm sticking with emails for now,

but For sure,

I mean you definitely are like from what you're saying,

it sounds like a lot of people are using pet names

in the space so you see a lot of like,

hey there,

lovely. What's up babe?

You want Yeah,

What is up with that?

Yeah, So I think when it comes to that,

it really comes down to if your brand can pull it

off. If you are someone where like that just irks you

and makes your tummy do a summer salt,

it's always gonna sound fake if you try and use it.

So just use people's name.

You don't have to say like dear name if you're like

that's so formal.

You can just say like,

hi there first name,

you know,

and start the conversation organically that way.

But if you do have a brand that's a little bit

more, I'm not gonna say like cheerleader vibes,

but like that's the word that's coming to mind.

I actually have some clients that do call all of their

community beauties and lovelies and they have super successful businesses but

they feel that that is actually what they feel in their

core and what they want to call their community.

So I think it really comes down to what you can

stomach, but also what you feel like your community can resonate

with and what you can commit to if you can't commit

to one or two pet names that feel really authentic to

you. I would say stick to the first name.

We've also heard it in the book How to Win Friends

and Influence People.

People love to hear their own names.

So if you can get that first name in the subject

line in the first couple of lines of the email,

Golden. And to your point,

if you don't normally talk like that,

don't start sending emails that way just cuz they look different

and fun and pretty or whatever it is.

All right.

But customization and the point about names is super important I

think. And also again,

just sticking with emails,

like I think it's nice to separate the conversation for us

into emails versus then we're gonna go into the website.

I see a lot of emails when we actually do this

in ours as well,

only a sentence or two for each paragraph.

Some paragraphs are only three or four words,

dot, dot,

dot. Cuz that's the way I talk,

you know,

I feel like I'll just think of how I'm talking and

I kind of just type it as I talk it type

thing. All of that is okay in emails.

It's not just okay,

it's encouraged.

I think the shorter the sentence,

the shorter the paragraph,

the more white space you can have if you're a maker

or especially if your product is very beautiful or the look

of your product is very important.

Put pictures in those emails and structure it more of like

a newsletter.

Make it so that the whole email is an experience,

not an essay.

Because my guess is you're not selling essays.

Not selling essays.

And I don't know if everyone will agree with my behavior,

but I open an email and I see long paragraphs and

I'm over it.

I close out and go away.

I don't have the time.

Something that you could have told me in a sentence and

a half is like a paragraph an inch long too much

for me.

I'm on my way,

I just don't have time,

You're not alone.

That is such common behavior.

I mean I think we always underestimate how little of a

detention span people have And what we think is so important.

I mean I'd love to think that all of my customers

wanna hang on my every word.

They don't.

They have their own things to do.

I am much less important than that.

You know,

I need to get to the point,

tell them what I need to tell them with some color,

you know,

why it's important to them and get the word across as

fast as I can.

What do you say about that?

Is that true?

Definitely. I think we,

especially emails like our inboxes are flooded,

you know we probably have multiple inboxes we're checking every single

day. So the best thing you can do is grab someone's

attention in the first subject line,

make those CTAs higher up on the email than you would

usually do it because most people aren't hitting the bottom of

the email and just really focusing on what's in it for

the person who's gonna be purchasing from you,

what would be a product that they would really love and

they would wanna purchase.

And maybe even think about segmenting your audience if you are

targeting multiple people,

sending different emails to different people and promoting different products that

you think would be the most applicable to their life.

Okay, so we've got that for emails.

I'm gonna get to the flowery wording choices in a minute,

but how does this then change when you're doing a blog?

Yeah, so when it comes to content writing,

I always make the distinction between copywriting and content writing.

I do both for clients,

but I think it's good to know like the semantics,

like what is what,

okay, so blogs are definitely in that content umbrella.

So copy is meant for getting people to purchase,

take an action,

really hardcore persuasion,

just like using all of those sales psychology,

making sure that it's really short to the point,

all that good stuff.

Content, obviously you still wanna do some of the same things.

You don't wanna write these crazy long extra bland paragraphs,

but content you have a little bit more flexibility to really

speak through your mind and educate and inform and just connect

with people.

You don't have to be as to the point because the

whole point if someone clicks on your blog is they're coming

there to read.

So you do have like 500,

750, even a thousand plus words to play with and that's

a really great time for you to go deep into maybe

your making process,

show them behind the scenes or maybe talk about a client

case study where like if you have,

especially if you're selling wholesale or you wanna sell to more

corporations, be like,

well this happened,

this is what they purchased and this is how it went.

So you can start to get some of those bigger sales

as opposed to just smaller direct to consumer sales if that's

something that you're interested in.

But blogs are really your opportunity to go deeper into educating

your audience and bringing them into your world in not quite

as a salesy way,

Not as a salesy way,

but still with interesting wording.

Right, Absolutely.

Okay, I'm threading this wording topic through for a second.

Okay, so now let's jump over and talk about your website.

So is website,

I'm thinking you're gonna say that that's content,

not copy either or maybe there's a combination of the two

depending on the page you tell me.

Ooh, yeah,

actually websites are almost always copy,

Copy, Yeah actually I'm really glad you brought that up because

I think a lot of people think like the content for

their website and then they end up getting a content writer

and then they don't get the sales that they want because

they actually did a copywriter from the get go to write

that homepage about page shop page product descriptions.

So I think that was actually a really good point we

actually brought up.

Okay, let's talk about the about us page on a website.

This is my pet peeve,

you know,

cuz a lot of people will just put a resume up

there and call it a day and we all know now

that the about Us page is a really important very highly

red page.

What should we really be writing there?

You give us a little training here For sure.

So when it comes to an about page,

really the main things people are going onto that page is

to learn about you.

So the common kind of advice we see in the copywriting

world is you're about page is about you,

but for your ideal client.

And I think that definitely does resonate to a certain degree

and I think that's important.

You know,

it's really hard to write about ourselves,

but sometimes I think that perspective shift of,

okay, well I'm just telling my story in a very relevant

way to my ideal client makes it a little less like,

okay, now I need to be like fun and interesting and

have fun facts,

which can be a little more daunting.

So if I was just structuring and about page right now,

I would do some sort of header that goes along with

your mission,

your differentiator,

why you started your business,

just one line that really like pulls people in.

And then I would do a small paragraph that's a little

bit like behind the brand or behind the shop and I

would talk about your shop just globally,

like how you started it,

like why you started it,

who you wanted to serve.

And then I would move into your story,

which is just like taking people a little bit behind the

scenes of your life,

maybe your background,

maybe why you chose to make the thing that you're making

or sell the product that you're selling.

And then from there always make sure you end with a

CTA where people can go directly to the shop because after

they're psyched because they just met you,

they love your story,

you wanna make sure that they can take the next step,

which is usually for making a purchase.

How about including at some point in there why this information

is important to the reader?

Do you think that belongs on and about us page?

I think if it's more general,

absolutely. Like if you found this like new way of using

coconut oil and it has this specific benefit on specific types

of skin,

absolutely put that in like your behind the brand or behind

the shop page.

Be like this shop started because I decided coconut oil deserves

a higher place in your beauty routine or something like that

would be a really strong way to show that without being

overtly like coconut oil,

Coconut oil,

which I would like definitely stress for like your product descriptions

and the pages that have a little bit more sales on

them. But the about page is really just focusing on just

so much connection.

Like I always say like an ooey-gooey connection with your ideal

client of like why you want this shop to be number

one on the places they go to for whatever product you're

selling. Okay,

you're gonna hate me for this question.

Define ey,

gooey. Yeah,

So I mean I just think about it like when you

have that one friend and when they give you a hug

you're like okay,

I don't even care,

I just had the worst day ever,

but my day is so much better right now.

So it just gives that feeling that you get it,

you're there.

You're not just some faceless brand because if you are so

closely connected to the product you're selling,

you're not a faceless brand,

you are very in depth with the day to day of

what it takes to get these products to your customers.

So just making it so that everyone who goes on this

about page not only feels like you are the CEO of

your product based company,

but that you're a friend and you're someone that's making something

that's going to make their life better And that they can

relate to you.

Absolutely. You're not this business owner customer and there's a wall

in between,

but you're kind of like friends and you're talking about to

your point about how you got started in the business or

whatever you would be saying,

but still like if I said uey gooey in my copy,

people would think I was insane cuz that's not a word

that I would use,

but I don't know the words that I use and often,

so I'm asking for a little coaching here,

Lucy, let's Do it.

I often will gravitate to words that I always say that

I always use and I know they could be more colorful.

I know they could be more visual or flowery or that

could still be me,

but I don't know how to find them if I knew

I I'd start using 'em.

Or is that starting to cross the line over to being

fake? You know what I mean?

Like I look at your emails,

they're so fun,

you have such colorful words that you use.

How do we do that?

So if we haven't been creative writers with paper around our

childhood bedrooms,

how do we get there?

I wanted to pause this discussion for a second to let

you know that I recognize you may be feeling overwhelmed right

now. I mean I bring on great guests who are specialists

in their fields and we get into fabulous conversations that you

know can help grow your business.

So after the show you have the full intention of grabbing

a download,

making an adjustment on your website or any number of other

ideas that arise as a result of this podcast.

But what happens,

you get back to your other activities and the momentum you

once had gets lost,

what you've planned to do is forgotten,

then you feel bad because your business is going on as

usual without implementing anything that you know would help grow your

business. We're just too busy doing all the things like a

robot moving from one thing to another without thinking because we

have to.

I get it,

I've been there.

But guess what?

There is another way.

Since I recognized this exact behavior in my own business,

I set out to do something about it and now what

works for me,

I'm sharing with you.

I formalized the process and it's called the inspired daily planner

made specifically for gifters,

bakers, crafters and makers,

but it's not your ordinary planner.

First off it comes with a video explaining my productivity strategy

plus it's not dated.

So you can start using your planner the second it arrives

at your doorstep.

And that's not all included for each day is a motivational

message or business building tip and plenty of space to capture

and book in time for to-dos,

schedule appointments and all those other ideas that are now getting

lost. Think of it as a book and a planner all

in one yet compact enough to carry with you and resource

as necessary.

It's the perfect solution to truly act and move your business

forward. Go to gift biz unwrapped.com/inspired

to get your hard copy planner along with my power of

purpose video that will set you on the path for true

business growth.

This makes a great gift too.

So if you have a biz bestie,

pick up a planner for them too.

That link again is gift biz unwrapped.com/inspired.

Okay, let's get back to the show.

I think you raised a really great point because when it

comes to flowery or colorful words,

I wanna make sure that everyone who's listening doesn't kind of

see that as needing to add fluff to their writing.

So fluff is what I consider to be like describing your

product as amazing or awesome or it's gonna change your life.

Like all the things where you're like,

okay, did that really need to like go into the copy

like you're selling like beautiful dish towels but they're dish towels,

you know?

So it's like this idea of like not being overdramatic and

adding in all of these adjectives to try and make your

product seem like this big crazy thing because that is what

usually comes across as fake.

So when it comes to using more color,

especially when you're trying to describe a product,

I always say the more specific you can be the better.

So let's say you're selling baked goods,

you're selling these beautiful cookies,

instead of just saying,

well I baked these cookies,

I put this frosting on them and then inside you'll find

chocolate chips.

Talk about the experience,

say like when it's your son's birthday and he wakes up

to a giant piping hot plate of cookies instead of his

usual Kellogg's frosted flakes,

imagine that smile that's just gonna take over.

So as you can see,

I'm kind of taking that product and making that product a

whole experience and I think that's where you can really make

yourself stand out from other people in your industry.

Okay, so what I really liked about you just saying you

added piping hot and it came naturally to you,

right? So by you adding that word it brought me into

that actual place,

I could close my eyes and see that image.

So maybe that's one way for us to find words is

to actually try to put ourselves into and live whatever that

experience is,

right? For sure.

Yeah. And you can absolutely ask your clients like how did

you experience my product?

Or how did it go?

How was the party?

And you can take words that your clients are saying and

then turn those into narratives like mini narratives that you could

use to describe your product That resonate with you and would

come naturally with you.

Like words that you would say.

Yeah. So would it make sense?

I mean I even think like now I'm thinking maybe I'll

test it out tonight,

but like if I'm sitting watching TV and I'm listening to,

I don't even care what show it is,

but they say some interesting words that I never would've thought

of. Is it worth making a little list of words you

think you could pull from?

Yeah, I call it a word wall and I always encourage

my clients to do that.

A word wall?

Yeah, you just kind of when something like hits you and

you're like wait,

I could use that to describe this.

Or maybe you don't even have a use for it but

you're like,

I'm kind of obsessed with that phrase,

write it down.

That's a great idea.

A word wall.

We're all building word wall,

you guys,

Everyone's homework.

Build a word wall.

You could even have it in just your planner or something.

Just a page of words.

Yeah, They have to be words that you like that fit

your brand obviously.

For sure.

I think when it comes to stuff like that,

like a word wall or like,

I do wanna make it like a small caveat though about

using words that you like just because it's so important that

your brand tone overall is aligned with who you are.

You know,

if you're a really casual person,

you're not gonna write in a really formal way.

But I would say especially if you're struggling with sales or

you feel like your brand is off and you do hire

a copywriter,

I would say the best thing you can do is to

just keep an open mind and realize that you know,

maybe the way you speak like to the law isn't what's

gonna be what sells your product.

I just wanted to throw that in there.

It's really important that you're not totally misaligned with the way

your brand sounds,

but definitely like the copywriters speak is gonna be a little

bit different than probably how you're used to speaking.

So it's important to kind of just keep both of those

in mind.

I used to have a social media person,

we do our own social media in house now,

but I loved so much what she said,

the words would never be what I could even think of

using. But they felt so good to me every week when

I would get,

you know how you'll get your copy I guess you call

it for social media,

not content copy for the social media post smiles because I'm

like this is so perfect,

this is so great.

It feels so right.

But there was just something about her,

again, really super colorful wording that absolutely great.

So I think there is a fine line between using too

much so you have to really think about where's the right

line. Yeah and I think the line is usually like thinking

about things that are really specific.

I think when we talk about fluff or stuffing,

it's because people are trying so hard that it comes off

as very cliche.

So I think really where that line is,

is think about an experience from the point of what would

actually happen with this product,

how would you actually describe it in context as opposed to

how can I beef up this product and make it sound

better. So I think if you kind of have that mindset

of like a realistic experiential,

fun way that is actually happening,

instead of just like making sure that you seem like the

best thing ever on the market,

it will naturally flow and people will just connect with what

you're selling a lot better.

But you can still use the word wall.

Yes. Still use the word wall.

I think the word wall is such a fun way to

just get a better feel for what you like.

I need a word wall.

I feel like I,

Well I also talk a lot,

you know with the podcasts and you know emails and all

of that.

So I feel like I need some new words that equally

resonate with words I already use.

So I'm doing it Lucy,

I'm doing it.

I love it.

I might even have a pen and paper at the ready

while I'm watching TV tonight.

You never know.

Actually maybe.

No I won't.

I'm kidding.

I was gonna say actually I'm gonna go back and look

at all your emails,

but that's not right.

I'm not gonna do that.

Now that I've said emails again,

I kind of forgot to ask you this question.

I really wanted to subject lines for emails.

I think there's also,

when we talk about that balance right between making sure that

you stay credible and true versus getting the attention and trying

to prompt people to open an email.

What do you say about,

you know,

what you talk about in subject lines?

So when it comes to a subject line,

the best thing you can do is be as concise as

possible. I think that that is like the number one,

like keep it short,

keep it relevant to the email,

but pick out the most important,

most exciting part of the email.

So instead of saying something like candles are on sale this

week, you could just say like sale with like a fun

emoji and be like click inside to get your exclusive code.

So just making it very action oriented and making it so

that from that subject line they have to click.

Cuz your subject line really has one job,

it's just to get people to open the email and then

your email will do the rest of the work.

So I would say it's probably a hybrid between making it

like a little bit click baby because you definitely want people

to click but not so click baie that people click the

email and they're like oh there they go again,

just writing some subject line that has nothing to do with

the email.

So I think it's that happy medium.

Right. Well and if it's click baie it might not even

get into the primary folder like in Gmail.

Yeah. You know it might go to promotions or spam.

So you do wanna be careful also with how many emojis

you use.

Yeah, I would say one emoji.

You say one?

Yeah, if you use an emoji.

Just One.

Just one.

Although I have been seeing people use emojis more and more,

which I love,

you know,

it just adds to the flavor I think.

I agree.

I think anytime you can add a visual or just something

that's gonna grab an eye is top notch to it.

Okay, so circling back we were talking about how does someone

get started and add a little bit more color to how

they speak.

The first thing you said is talk as if you're talking

to your friend,

record an audio recording or whatever and listen to the words

that you use and try to duplicate that as you can

in your writing.

And then you also,

the whole Venn diagram,

one thing that you're talking,

but how are people receiving and there's gotta be kind of

a commonality between the two and you can look at those

by looking at your opens,

your website visits that convert to sales,

things like that to get a feel for if you're in

alignment, if you're not sure,

like I kind of feel like I know what my customers

would resonate with cuz I've been working with them for so

long. But if you don't or if you're new to business,

this would be a good way to do it.

Or if I tested out new words,

I need to check and make sure that I'm not doing

something that turns people off too.

Yeah and so would you add anything to those two things

for people who are listening just as they're getting started,

these would be the two things to do.

I think the number one thing I would just add,

I mean I think you summed it up beautifully is be

consistent. I mean if you're gonna have a brand voice,

it's only gonna work if that brand voice is present on

all of your customer touch points.

So if you decide that you wanna be like irreverent and

have like this kind of dry sense of humor,

just because you get one hater is not a reason to

like turn it off.

You have to keep leaning into it and commit to it

because that's how you're gonna draw people in.

So that would be a big,

a big thing that I would say is consistency when you're

using a brand voice or you're writing in a certain way

for your company is so much more important than creating it.

You really have to use it.

Yeah, I mean I'm thinking of certain people now who swear

all the time like that's part of how they talk.

That's just it.

And you see it if they're on video,

if they're doing lives,

you see it in their written copy,

you see it in their emails everywhere.

They just stay consistent cuz that's who they are.

So. Okay.

All right.

Wonderful mistakes.

If you were to give me one or two mistakes that

you see that we should be cautious of as we consider

making a switch in our style to be more in alignment

with our conversation today,

what are some mistakes?

I think a big mistake I wanna talk about,

especially based on the conversation we just had,

is when business owners prioritize cleverness over clarity,

I think they can both coexist.

I think you can make jokes,

I think you can make cultural references and use fun words,

but when you stop getting to the core of who you

are as a business,

what you sell,

how you add value,

and how you're different,

people are not gonna buy because they're gonna be confused.

So I definitely think clarity has to be there first and

then once you have the clarity you can pepper in the

cleverness and then they can both coexist.

But clarity always has to come first because at the end

of the day,

we're not trying to be like these crazy amazing creative writers.

We're trying to be richer business owners.

So we have to think about it from a business standpoint

before we can have more fun with It.

So clarity in terms of communicating to our customers,

obviously what the products are that we offer,

why they're of value,

how to purchase those very simple basic things,

why your product is different from somebody else's,

you know,

it's those things to be very clear on and then you

can get more descriptive and fun with describing those topics as

long as that stays clear.

Absolutely. Okay.

All right.

Clarity over cleverness.

Okay, another mistake,

Another mistake I often see is this is a pretty easy

fix. So I think oftentimes we use a lot of I

because we're used to referencing ourselves.

So we'll say things like,

I help people by doing this and I make this because

it leads to this result.

So I want you to chop out all of those eyes,

all of those I do,

I help,

I make and just say what it is.

So I'll give you guys this,

an example in practice.

So we're gonna change eye centric copy to use centric copy

with you being your ideal client.

So you centric copy would just be like candles for every

day you have me think about candles.

Now I feel like anyone who is a candle maker on

this podcast,

like she keeps using me.

So just say exactly what it is that you create.

So you can say clothing for the deep winter,

you know?

So as you can see,

I'm just stating what the product is and what it does

and how it adds value and I'm chopping out all of

those little,

like I do this,

I do that because frankly it's just not necessary.

I also just hearing you say it feel like it weakens

the message.

I like that.

I'm thinking about that even for craft shows,

like when people come up to booths just stating what it

is that you sell.

You know,

if it's not,

yeah, immediately obvious.

If it's candles,

it's immediate,

immediately obvious,

but it might not be if you paint with a different

technique that's not obvious,

like oh my gosh,

I'm going to have someone on the show who paints by

by blowing the paint across the canvas,

That's so cool.

But that would not be completely obvious when you're looking at

the beautiful paintings,

unless she said that to you.

So that would be something that paintings done through and she's

named her technique,

I don't remember what it is,

but so saying that instead of I'm,

you know,

it's obvious that she made these paintings,

she's the booth owner.

So yeah,

things like that.

So interesting.

Very interesting.

Okay, I like doing things in three.

Lucy, do you have one more mistake for us?

Yeah, so I think one more mistake is holding back.

I know it can be really tough to just put all

of yourself into your,

your writing and letting yourself flow,

but the worst thing you can do is like get caught

up in perfection.

I mean a first draft is never perfect and the best

thing you can do is just to take this mistake and

turn it into the positive is instead of holding back,

what you can do is just write like literally if you

have to have a glass of wine or make the lighting

a little less in your face or whatever you have to

do to just be able to get the words at least

onto the page,

you can always refine later do it.

Because I've noticed that a big issue that when clients come

to me they have is not too much to say is

they're like,

I don't know how to talk about my product.

So the best way to do that is just get it

on paper.

I mean we're not trying to do wordy copy or a

ton of copy that is gonna just go over your customer's

heads, but you have to at least have something on the

page and then we can refine from there.

That makes sense.

And you won't have it done perfectly the first time.

Just get it down and then go back and maybe even

put it aside and then go back.

For sure.

I kind of feel like,

okay, the first word should be this,

The second word should be this.

Okay, one and two looks good.

Now the third word should be this,

right? And in such a stressful way I feel like of

writing, But I'm making it a little worse than it is.

But how often do we do that?

Like we'll write a little paragraph and then we'll go back

and we'll change the first two sentences of the paragraph and

then no,

we'll change the last sentence of the paragraph.

And we're still on that first paragraph,

right? We haven't gotten into the second one yet and we're

already editing the first one.

To your point,

get it all on paper and then you can rearrange and

do it.

It just,

I have actually found that that's so much easier too and

you can scrap the whole thing if you have to.

Yeah, literally like I have such a copy graveyard,

like you know,

it's okay,

it doesn't have to be perfect.

Look, there are your words again.

Copy graveyard.

Does this come more naturally to you as you start doing

it? I mean,

yeah, I write for like six to eight hours a day.

Like I'm not gonna lie,

but I also think like more than just practice,

I think I just approach my life like a writer.

Like if something happens to me,

I'll just like think like,

oh, how would I write about this?

Which sounds weird if you're not doing it,

but I guess it's a subconscious process that I'm just so

used to Doing.

It must be,

well I wanna be you Lucy.

But like we're not all born with that style and that

ability, but these are different ways that we can put,

interject that in and that's why people hire people like you

or learn from people like you or buy services and all

that from you because you're able to do it so well

and you can help us integrate that into our brands.

Right? Absolutely.

And I love doing it.

Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about what you provide

your services and such.

Yeah, so I always like to say I know as much

as we see this world of a lot of people come

in and teach versus do I am a pure play done

for you copywriter.

So if someone wants to work with me,

basically what you're gonna do is I'm gonna ask you a

million and a half questions about your business and I'm gonna

take it and I'm gonna put it into words and write

a website or some sales copy or emails that get open

and get you you more customers,

more clients,

more traffic.

So if you feel like you're really struggling to make sales

or you just know that you have this incredible product,

but communicating it is just makes you wanna pull your hair

out, definitely get in touch with me and let's partner up

so I can write whatever it is that we need to

write and really solidify your messaging and your place in the

market. But if you're like,

that is a little scary,

I'm newer,

I'm not totally ready to just hand everything and outsource my

copy. Then I also offer audits.

So what I can do,

they're called copy roasts.

I can go into your website or a few of your

emails and give you my feedback and some verbal edits on

things I would change to up your conversion.

So if either of those sound good to you,

definitely I will of course save my links and all that

good stuff and I'm sure they'll be in the show notes,

but definitely reach out whether it's like very casually over dms

or filling out the contact form on my website and we

can talk about what you definitely need.

Oh that's wonderful.

And there you go again,

coffee roasts,

like seriously.

Oh, I saw something about templates coming through some emails.

What's that all about?

Yeah, so I actually have a template shop that is up

and coming.

So if you feel like you need help,

especially on the brand voice side,

I have templates for sales copy and web copy.

But if you are a maker or a product based business,

they're not as quite applicable.

They're a little bit more for service based businesses.

But the brand voice template,

I literally take you step by step holding your hand through

the process that corporations use to build multimillion dollar brand voices

so you can actually have access to that process,

that curation process for obviously a fraction of the price since

it's a done for do it yourself resourced.

So if you feel like,

okay, I need that,

if that just like knocked your socks off,

what you should do is you should go to find my

brand voice.com,

take the quiz and after you take the brand voice quiz,

this is super secret,

you're gonna get a 50% off coupon to use on the

brand voice template.

So you're gonna be able to grab it at like this

crazy rate because you went through the quiz.

So telling you this because you guys are all insiders now,

we've just talked for a few minutes on this podcast.

And so that would be a really awesome resource,

especially if you're just starting out and you're like,

I wanna have a brand voice that just catapults me to

the next level.

Yes. And I don't just invite anybody on this podcast,

as you guys know,

I went through and I took Lucy's test before we even

started her talking about her being on the show and it

landed perfect with who I am and what I anticipate my

voice should be,

you know,

and what I'm trying to get out there.

I'm so glad.

And the other ones were so not right,

like some of the answers to the questions,

cuz you know,

you go through a list of questions and it finally tells

you what your brain voice is,

right? Some of the other answers were so obviously not me.

So it was kind of easy to make the selections,

but it totally nailed it.

So I loved that.

I'm so glad you took it.

Yeah, that's when I responded to the email and I said,

Let's do it.

And then it got better from there.

Cuz then I got all of your fun worded emails coming

through. So everyone needs to go and do the brand quiz,

like seriously just to see it.

And then also for sure you'll see her whole welcome sequence,

all of that.

It's fabulous.

I love it.

So great.

Thank you.

Wonderful. Well,

any final words of encouragement for us as we re-look at

our copy and our content?

I'm gonna say with both adding a little bit more of

ourselves into that,

which the hope would be of course to deepen the relationships

with our customer base so they feel more comfortable and would

wanna buy from us.

Give us a pep talk here.

Yeah, I think the,

the biggest thing you can do is know yourself.

If you are super new to business,

equip yourself with the investments you can physically make.

So whether that's a resource or having someone just like audit

your copy,

or even if you just need to like ask a friend

or take a walk,

like set yourself up for success.

So if you are just staring at this blank Google Doc

and it's not coming to you,

something needs to shift.

So that can be an internal shift or that can be

an external shift of actually doing something.

But if you're gonna diy,

I would say definitely do what you have to do to

get yourself in the head space to properly communicate your brand.

And if you're growing,

if you're more established and you're thinking,

Okay, well I think I'm ready to go to the next

level. So for me the next level is you're looking to

kind of create this like multi six figure,

seven figure e-commerce shop.

That's just flourishing.

You're reaching your ideal client.

That is the part when I would definitely say it's time

to outsource.

It's time to invest,

It's time to build a team.

So just to give you some,

I guess,

breaking up this podcast into two groups,

because especially if you're DIYing,

there's so many things out there.

There's so many ways to just write an Epic website.

But if you are at that next level or wanna hit

that next level,

that's the time to bring in help.

And if you want My health,

if you've like this episode,

you can just head to At My Right Hand Woman on

Instagram, right?

Is spelled like writing,

Send me a dm.

Or you could just head straight to the website,

which is my right hand woman.com.

And again,

right is spelled like writing.

Perfect. Lucy,

thank you so much.

You've given us so many tips.

You've made it sound so much more doable.

Again, we're doing those word walls for sure.

Every single one.

Yeah, everyone's homework.

Word Walls,

word walls.

Hey, and you guys,

let's share the word walls in the breeze.

So any of you who are part of Gift,

Bre Lucy,

that's my Maker's Facebook group.

I'm gonna start a post there that says word wall.

Now, you can't use other people's words that they put up

there unless they also resonate with you.

But maybe we'll start a master maker wall of words.

Something like that.

I love this.

Please tag me.

I wanna be in this group even though I'm Not a

maker. Okay,

You can come in.

I'll wait till you see.

There are amazing things happening there.

All right,

Lucy, thank you again so,

so much for all of your direction input.

I'm really excited about this.

Thanks for being on the show today.

Thanks for having me.

Goodbye. Fluffy words,

enter in more verbs versus adjectives while still balancing clear over

clever. Got it.

Don't forget about the new word wall happening over in the

breeze. The post,

including the wall,

will be up and running this Thursday.

And if I see that we're adding and using it,

I'll keep it pinned to the top of the group so

that you can easily reference it.

And the unique artist that I referenced in this show,

Stephanie, of Canary Artwork,

is gonna be the podcast coming up next week.

So watch for that one.

If you're enjoying the podcast and would like to show support,

a rating and review is always fabulous because it helps get

the show seen by more makers.

It's a great way to pay it forward.

And there's another way where you can get something tangible in

return for your support too.

Visit my merch shop for a wide variety of inspirational items

like mugs,

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and more featuring logos,

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And we've just added some new products for the season to

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Take a look at all the options@giftbizunwrapped.com

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And now be safe and well,

and I'll see you again next time on the Gift Biz

Unwrapped podcast.

I wanna make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook group

called Give Miss Bre.

It's a place where we all gather and are a community

to support each other.

I've got a really fun post in there that's my favorite

of the week,

I have to say,

where I invite all of you to share what you're doing

to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week,

to get reaction from other people.

And just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making.

My favorite post every single week.

Without doubt.

Wait, what?

Aren't you part of the group already?

If not,

make sure to jump over to Facebook and search for the

group gift.

Bre, don't delay.