356 – Unseen Possibilities for a Creative Career with AnnMarie Mattila of American Cake Decorating Magazine

Gift biz unwrapped episode 356.

Sometimes It takes a long time just to come back to

recognizing who you were all along.

Attention. Gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hello, welcome to the podcast today.

If you haven't yet seen the classes that we did in

honor of national bakers,

crafters bakers day,

they're still available for viewing six 20 minute classes covering things

that enrich your life.

Overall non-business topics like pie,

crust, making yoga,

meditation, and breath,

work, gift design,

salsa, dancing,

and artistic journaling.

You may ask why on a business development podcast,

I coordinated these classes.

Where's the fit.

Well, I believe that feeling great on the inside radiates outward

to everything you do,

including your business.

So for a celebration of handmade creators,

it fits right in.

You can see all the classes on demand for free and

no opt-in required.

You'll find them over@handmadehealstheworld.com.

Now, with regard to today's show,

I'm looking forward to sharing this interview with you,

because it's a really good example of how you can extend

your love for a handmade product above and beyond the making

and selling.

What I'm talking about is applying the skills and knowledge you've

developed with a handmade product and using it for a career

in the same industry,

but from a different angle.

Do you ever wonder how people get into the careers that

they have today in this case?

How did Ann Marie go from thinking she'd be a professional

ballet dancer and end up as a writer,

editor and recipe developer in the baking industry.

It definitely wasn't a straight line,

but nor are most journeys in her story.

I think you'll be inspired and maybe even see parallels to

the twists and turns your taking and be motivated by the

potential of where your path will lead you Today.

It is my pleasure to introduce you to Anne Marie Madela.

Ann Marie is the managing editor at American cake decorating magazine.

She's also pastry chef and food content creator focused on the

sweet side of life.

Baking after graduating from the Institute of culinary education,

she spent more than a decade as a freelance baker and

cake decorator before returning to school to focus on media.

She earned her master's degree in food studies from New York

university and began her writing career with pastry art magazine.

She is a co-founder and editor and a recipe developer for

pastry at home,

as well as a freelance writer for other food media outlets,

Ann Marie,

welcome to the gift biz on podcast.

Thank you for having me.

So I am so excited that you're here and I have

to tell all our listeners how we met really quickly.

We were at the ultimate sugar show and you came up

to my booth and we were chatting back and forth a

little bit.

You were sharing some of your experiences.

And then I said,

okay, stop.

Don't tell me anymore.

Will you come and be a guest on the podcast to

what you said?

Yes. Yes.

I'm so glad that we had that moment going booth to

booth with a mask on and trying to introduce yourself to

people. I felt,

you know,

it was just perfect timing and kizmat so I'm glad that

you have,

Yes, I'm excited to share your story with everybody.

And like I said,

I stopped you.

So I don't know the whole story either.

That's the way I like to roll.

So when I'm learning things about you,

it's very genuine.

It's not like we're repeating something that we've already talked about,

right? Yes.

But I am going to delay that conversation for a short

second, because I'd like you to share with us how you

would describe yourself through a motivational candle.

So if you were to create a candle that really just

speaks to you by color and a saying,

or a quote,

what would your candle look like?

Okay. My candle would definitely be lavender.

I am a huge fan of purple.

Purple's my birthstone.

It's just always been my favorite color.

So I would go lavender because it's calming,

which I need because I am not.

Then I would say it took me a bit to figure

out what I would write on my candle,

but I'm just going to go with the quote that I

actually wrote in my high school yearbook many years ago.

And it is kind of snotty,

but it is one of my favorite quotes of all time.

And it's from Andy Warhol and it is,

it takes a lot of work to figure out how to

look so good.

And the reason I chose that is because at first it

comes off of,

oh, it's me.

I want to look the best I can look,

but that's actually not the case.

I feel like when you're in a creative industry,

especially doing the things that I do,

it actually does take a lot of hard work to figure

out and to produce something,

to look so good.

A lot of people don't see the behind the scenes actions

that it takes a creative person to do.

And so I feel like this quote has more than one

meaning, and you can really look into it,

which is so Warhol.

So for Sure.

Well, and as I'm thinking of the quote,

when, as you've said it,

it said two things to me too,

but one more cautionary and one more motivational,

the cautionary one is as makers,

we can spend so much time perfecting what we make and

production time is dollars.

Absolutely. So at some point you just have to say,

this is beautiful as it is moving on.

Right. So yes,

you can spend a lot of time making it look good.

And there comes a point when it looks really good,

but your critical eye and you just need to stop.

Oh, absolutely.

That is a lesson,

a hard learned lesson and it is a constant struggle.

Yeah. You just have to stop,

but you can stop and move on to other creative things

then too.

It doesn't mean you have to stop your creativity.

Exactly. So that was the first thing.

The other thing that I was thinking of that just the,

both of these things came to mind just as you were

saying, this is,

it does take a long time to figure out how to

look so good in terms of your style.

If you're creating something,

it's the style of how you make your cakes or design

your jewelry,

what you're bringing that's different from anybody else.

And that is an evolutionary process.

And it does take some time.

Absolutely It does.

And sometimes it takes a long time just to come back

to recognizing who you were all along.

There are some things I think about the way I am

and about my type of creativity that has always been there.

But sometimes you just have to take this journey long journey,

which I have had just to come back to,

oh, this is me.

I will always choose purple.

I will always choose a Warhol quote.

I will always choose this,

but sometimes it does take a lot of time to just

hone in on who you are.

That is really,

really smart advice.

Very wise.

I think everyone needs to just sit and think about that

for a minute because you're so right when I got married,

peach was like the color,

everything you saw everywhere would speech.

And I'm like,

well, that's not really my color,

but it is pretty.

And so if you want to believe this,

I got all of my wedding,

China, everything.

Then my registry and everything.

I picked a design that was peach.

I'm not a peach girl by a long shot.

I mean,

I like the color,

but I'm not.

So that was the craziest thing.

So now I have all this peach China that I never

used because it's not my color.

I was lucky.

I got my China just when they had released a lavender

edged piece,

which we'll get to in a second,

it's called ballet ribbons.

So that spoke to me.

And then they came out with this lavender edge piece of

China. And I was like,

that's me.

This is me in China.

Would you know,

I did not take it out of its box for 10

years after my divorce,

I'm divorced.

And I never took it out of its box until like

10 years later,

it finally revealed.

And I was like,

God, I picked the right thing.

This is so me and it's now discontinued and I don't

care. It is me.

And I will track down every piece of discontinued piece of

ballet ribbons because it is so me and I'm so glad

I made that decision,

at least with my China.

But it just goes back to what you were talking about.

So, so smart,

recognizing who you were all along,

like who you are.

Absolutely. And it does sometimes take a struggle to diverge from

that and just come back to that.

And I constantly still do that in my life and I

don't think I will ever stop doing that.

You know what I think another angle of this is too

is we are with ourselves all the time,

obviously. And so who we are feels like it's not new

news, right?

So when you're doing something where you're putting yourself out there,

you're getting visibility,

you feel like you have to be something greater than who

you are when really the best thing to do is just

be who you are already.

That's where you're most comfortable anyway.

Absolutely. A thousand percent.

And I think the big risk is just putting yourself out

there. The risk isn't being,

who you are,

the risk is putting yourself out there and making sure that

people accept who you are.

That's I think one of the hardest pieces of,

But yeah.

Being confident enough in who you are to put yourself out

in a genuine way.

Absolutely. Yeah.

We don't have to be someone that we think our audience

wants to see.

We need to be who we are.

Absolutely. All right.

So let's take a step back.

I want to hear about your journey,

but it's been now what,

five or six months since the show,

and I've been waiting in suspense this whole time or your

story. I definitely have an interesting story.

I think everybody does,

but when I tell mine,

people are like,

wow. Okay.

Yeah. All right.

So you get to choose where we start with the story.

Well, I will,

I guess start at the beginning when I was younger,

just because it's come up a few times or at least

once in the fact that when I was younger,

my dream was to be a ballet dancer.

I am a bonehead.

I still have a bun in my head.

I think actually my first logo when I got into caking

was a silhouette of me with a bun on my head

holding a cake,

because that was just who I was when I was younger.

I was really into it.

I loved everything artistic,

but I think my passion linked itself towards dance.

I was put in it because I was a very active

child and my mother did not know what to do with

me. And so she put me in dance and I just

fell in love with it.

And so when I was in high school,

I was trying to figure out what I really wanted to

do. I loved it so much that I was like,

I'm going to be a theater major.

And I think my freshman year,

I was like,

no, no,

no, there's just no way I could be a professional dancer.

And my body's just not built to be that way.

I had the passion for it.

I didn't have that level of talent that I could be

a professional at it.

So I thank the world of ballet for my passion,

for the arts.

I thank ballet from my extremely good posture and ability to

wear my hair up.

But that is not really where I think I was going

to end up in my life and kind of at the

same time in high school,

I think just as many very feminine females are,

am kind of that way.

I fell in love with fashion somewhere in high school.

One of my friends bought me a subscription to Vogue very

early on.

I think we were like 14 or 15 and I was

like, wow,

what is this?

I love fashion.

And if you look at it,

actually the aesthetics of a lot of fashion is very closely

connected to the arts and ballet.

And so it's a natural progression I think,

and just ruining your feet with some sort of shoes.

So I fell in love with fashion.

Hence the Andy Warhol quotes in my high school,

senior yearbook.

And so I transferred to the fashion Institute of technology,

my sophomore year of college and was all all in with

fashion, started my career there and spent 18 years climbing up

the corporate ladder in fashion.

I was not a design major.

I was a business major.

And so it's that balance of like that left and right

brain where you can be in a creative industry,

but have a business focus.

I think that worked really well for my brain.

So what type of Positions did you have in fashion?

It Was mostly product development,

sourcing production.

And so I was the back end.

So the people that you don't actually see most of the

time in fashion,

I'm the one who spoke to the factories,

got the products,

made negotiated prices,

made sure everything was approved and on time and in the

stores and then kind of handled any quality call-out issues and

things like that.

So that's essentially without going into the very dirty,

gross details of the fashion industry,

what my career was built on,

You combined then your business degree with your love of fashion

together. Absolutely.

And let's be honest,

the discounts that you get while you're in the fashion industry

are phenomenal.

Well, and you stay on top of all the trends,

you know,

everything before anybody L's to absolutely.

You know,

everything about nine months to a year before everybody else.

Right. Oh,

that's cool.

Right. And then you also know when everything's about to go

on sale.

So that's really helpful,

especially because I live in New York and it is very

expensive here.

So is there second The thing versus insider trading,

insider shopping?

I know a little bit.

Sure. Or you can actually,

once you kind of know the industry,

you can kind of guess too,

like, oh,

well this is going to be on a 12 week cycles.

So at about week eight,

this is going to go on sale.

And by week 10,

it's going to be probably at its lowest price.

If you can still get your size.

So like you just kind of guess and know,

because pretty much the industry is run the same way,

no matter what product or company it is,

The perks of the biz.

For sure.

Absolutely. What else did you like about that time?

You spent a lot of years there.

I, I will say it is a tough,

very hard industry.

One of the biggest benefits about the industry is the comradery

of your coworkers.

I do miss that a lot because most of my job

right now is remote.

I loved being in an office setting with like-minded people who

just kept me so motivated just to get through all the

like poop emoji stuff that you just have to get through

to climb that corporate ladder.

Some of my very best friends were my work wives.

And honestly,

some of the best people you meet are from work.

And so,

although it is not necessarily pushing you in a creative manner,

it is certainly helping you get through the druggie details.

And it just makes your work life that much better when

you meet wonderful people.

Yeah. And you can all relate to the same thing versus

trying to tell the story to someone who isn't living it.

Oh, absolutely.

Right. Still to this day,

I still have connections to the fashion industry and men,

when they tell me stories,

I can understand it and it just reminds me,

I don't miss it,

but it is so nice that they can come to me

and complain because I know what they're talking about,

you know?

And wow.

I just do not miss it.

And nothing like affirmation for the path you're on now That

was in percentage.

Absolutely. But you invested a lot of time in that field.

So then to make a switch,

I'm curious to hear about that.

Yeah. So very early on,

as much as I love fashion and I still do,

I still do,

man. My shoe collection is out of control,

but very early on,

I could just tell I wasn't passionate about it in a

job sense.

I'm passionate about it.

Cause I just love clothing and accessories,

but I just knew it wasn't quite right for me.

And so probably even just a few years into being in

the industry,

I still felt that like creative urge and I needed a

creative outlet to do something.

And so I started taking classes at the Institute of culinary

education. It is if you've never been,

or if you haven't heard of it,

it is an incredible culinary school.

Not only for going full time as a student,

but they have these incredible classes that you can take just

for recreation.

And I started taking those and I really just fell in

love with taking baking classes.

And so the more I thought about it,

the more I was like,

you know,

maybe I want to go to pastry school.

And it took a few years of me taking different classes

and saying,

you know,

I really like this.

I wonder if I should go back to school and would

you know it I'm telling you,

it's just a sign from whatever heavens you might believe in.

I entered a contest on the food network.

I kid you not.

And it was just one of those,

like you're watching TV and they're like enter in your phone

number and your email and you could win a partial scholarship

to culinary school.

And I won and it was for the culinary school that

I was already going to is ice.

And so they have programs that are part-time and you can

go after work and you can go on weekends.

And so I did not have to give up my career

to start pursuing something else.

And so I thought it was a sign and I said,

all right,

I'm going to culinary school.

It's a wonderful program because you can go full-time for six

months or go part-time for nine months.

And then you do an internship.

So it's a few months.

So it's about a year of your life.

And when I tell you,

it was one of the most amazing years of my life,

not from work,

but for just for going to school,

one of the most incredible years of my life,

where I was like,

I love every second of this.

I love adjust,

fell in love with it.

And I was like,

I want to be in baking.

But the problem with being a little bit older and having

a stable career and just the way life lends itself,

there was no way I could give up my corporate career

and have the life I wanted to lead and be a

baker for $7 an hour.

There just wasn't a way to do that.

And so I did what many other people did?

I had a side gig for,

well, over a decade and I baked cakes for people.

And luckily the fashion industry is so predominantly female.

When I say it's like 65,

70% female globally,

that works in the fashion industry.

It's insane that everybody was getting married and having babies.

And guess who made all of their cakes?

And still to this day,

I'd say semi-retired from baking for people,

but still to this day,

12 plus years,

13 years later,

I'm still baking for people that I made their bridal showers.

And now their kids are like teenagers and I'm making their

cakes still.

So it's a really good connection to have to know so

many people who want cake.

So did you Start a business baking design wedding cake business

on the side?

I did.

Okay. All right.

And the people that you knew from your job were your

ready-made testing ground and first clients.

Oh yes.

The wonderful thing is most of them,

obviously, because I was in school while,

while I was still working,

what I would do is every Monday and Tuesday,

because I would go to school Sunday,

Monday, Tuesday.

So every Monday,

Tuesday, Wednesday,

I would bring whatever I had created the night before in

school. I'd bring it,

I'd send out like an email blast of like what it

was, do a funny little definition about it and then like

leave it out for people to sample in our little like

cafe area.

And so everybody kind of got to know that,

oh, Ann Marie's in school and Marie's a baker.

And then when I started doing my own thing,

just for fun,

I would just bring in things even post-school.

And so people just got to know.

And so they're like,

Hey, and it started just at work,

right? Like,

oh, we're throwing a work baby shower for somebody or a

bridal shower for somebody.

And then it just grew and grew and grew where by

the following year.

Yeah. I made my boss's wedding cake,

a four tiered wedding cake.

Oh my God.

So were you strategically doing it or were you providing it

just because you enjoy cooking and it was fun and you

and liked sharing.

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, Absolutely.

And did I think,

Ooh, I could probably turn this into a business.

Absolutely. And there were moments along the way where I started

working with caterers and I started working with friends of friends

of friends and then social media came along and new people

on Facebook would find me people eventually on Instagram would find

me. And there were moments where yes,

I could easily have I'm going to go for this.

And it just never felt quite right for me.

I was,

there was something holding me back.

You had a good job.

Yes, absolutely.

With benefits and security and That paycheck to be able to

pay the exorbitant rents of New York.

This was before you could get health insurance,

anywhere else.

I needed that stability in my life.

I needed to pay my school loans off.

I needed to start my 401k.

I needed to build that piece of my life.

And I didn't have the stability behind me to let that

go. And there was something I actually pretty risk adverse.

And so there was something really holding me back.

And I didn't know what it was to be perfectly honest

with you,

but there was something in my body that was just like,

you are not meant to be this.

You are not meant to necessarily own a cake business.

And I watched people do it now,

especially, you know,

now that I work for a cake magazine and I watched

people progress and do it.

And I'm so proud of them and I like am in

their corner and I want to promote them as much as

I can because like,

wow, good for you.

It is incredibly difficult to do.

And I just knew it wasn't necessarily for me.

I just couldn't figure out what it was that I've really

wanted to do until many years later.

But yeah,

I mean,

I had the opportunity to do it.

Sure. Well,

and I think there are people listening now who probably feel

they're doing something on the side baking or whatever,

their handmade product businesses.

But they do have a nine to five job with all

the benefits that,

that brings the financial stability and all of that.

But they kind of feel like they want to go into

their full craft,

but they know they shouldn't.

And I want to say to people that's okay.

That Is absolutely.

Okay. Just like you were saying,

you weren't meant for that.

Like there's nothing says that you have to be full-time in

your handmade business.

Absolutely not.

And you might gravitate to it at some point.

You might never do that,

but you're not less than if you're doing it on the

side versus someone who's doing it full time.

These are choices that we have to make for ourselves that

fit our lifestyles.

Absolutely. And I find that sometimes.

Okay. I'm lucky here in New York that I always say

this almost every single person I know has a side hustle

in New York.

I don't know what it is.

Maybe it's just like to have extra cash or maybe it

is a lot of us need that creative outlet because we

have very stressful lives,

whatever it is that motivates us to do it,

there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping your side hustle,

a side hustle.

There's nothing wrong with that.

I know plenty of people who,

you know,

even one of my friend's moms,

one of my high school friends,

moms. So if we're our age,

our moms are in their late sixties,

who was a nurse,

a career nurse,

and just retired,

but has been making cakes on the side for the entire

time and never decided to do anything else with her side

hustle ever until she retired,

then it was like,

oh, okay.

I can make more cakes now because I'm retired,

but there's nothing wrong with that.

And it is a difficult decision to jump into it.

And again,

I give full credit and support anybody who wants to make

their side hustle a full-time career.

It's wonderful,

but that's not meant for everybody.

Yeah. I'm also seeing a big trend with that now because

when people are retiring,

they want to retire to something they're not retiring to the

rocking chair on their front porch.

And same thing.

I know someone who was also in the medical industry and

she retired and started a whole floral shop.

It's like your career that you're starting to grow and develop

after your other career,

your earlier career,

because now in our life,

we can have two at the same time or merge one

into another.

So many opportunities for us.

Really our,

I remember reading many years ago that each generation has more

and more careers.

They said something like the millennials will have more than six

different careers in their lives,

six different careers.

Like that blows my mind.

I remember when I was in fashion and trying to contemplate

a second career was hard enough for me just to think

that people and future generations will have six to 10 different

career paths.

That's incredible to me and good for them.

Good. They should be able to switch and not be stuck

in the Life of diversity.

Really? Yeah.

I'm astounded by that and really like humbled that people can

risk things and just go for it.

That's great.

Yeah. I love it so much.

So we are now at the point where you were baking

your boss's wedding cake.

So you're still in fashion,

but you're baking.

And I want to just point out a couple of things

here before we keep going,

because I want everyone to track along with us here.

Some of the things I like so much,

Anne Marie,

about your is there are a lot of people here who

know they want to start something they're very creative.

They have their hands in a million different creative ideas.

But what you did is just on a very fun spirited

approach. We're taking classes just for that as a hobby to

do something else.

And that led you into where your passions were because a

lot of people don't know what they would want to do.

They know they want to do something,

but they don't know.

So this is a perfect example of what you did of

investigating and discovering what feels best and what feels right.

Absolutely. And then you found something and then you started getting

professional skills through your training in that area.

So now you're now just not a hobbyist.

You've also now got your degree with the Institute of culinary

education, et cetera,

and then started building your business slowly as a side business.

Yes. So I think that graduated level,

because a lot of people don't see that they see someone

wants to start a business and now all of a sudden

they have it and not all the in-between and it's a

foggy of how you get there.

Yes. It is a mishmash,

a jumble,

a journey to get to a different place.

You don't just wake up one day.

I mean,

some people do,

I am not one of those people.

And most people aren't like that.

You don't just wake up one day and be like,

I'm going to open a bakery.

You need a skill level research and just time invested to

figure it out.

And I'm glad I didn't go into things blindly.

It was a slow progression to get there and to say,

I love this and I will figure it out.

And I still,

even with baking,

although I still like to take more advanced classes because I

never want to stop learning.

There are other things that I love to be a hobbyist.

So taking the opportunity to try something,

to see if you like it.

And if you don't drop it,

it's fine.

But like even I didn't learn how to sell until I

was 30,

which I know it sounds crazy.

Cause I was in the fashion industry and I didn't know

a lot of people don't.

So I took for my 30th birthday,

I was like,

oh, I'm going to take sewing classes and I can make

pillows and curtains.

And that's about it.

I made a dress once,

but trying something,

taking a class in something will always better your skills in

some sort of way,

or at least motivate you or I don't know,

like push you to keep trying and keep learning.

There's always something you can learn,

whether it's learning that you don't like it or learning like,

oh, I want to keep going or try something connected to

it or whatever it is.

There's always something new that you can learn out there.

And there's so many more opportunities to do that.

I mean obviously like YouTube didn't exist when I wanted to

go back to school and all these online classes and Instagram

classes and all these like crazy things you can do now

just off of the computer didn't exist.

And now that they do,

it's like,

wow, what else can I learn?

And again,

I'm constantly learning and figuring out,

is there something else I can develop and learn?

There's a whole new host of skills now that I'm in

food media that I had to learn.

And it's great.

I love it.

And it's acceptable.

Now. It used to not be like,

if you worked at a corporation and heaven forbid your boss

found out that you were doing something else.

Oh, when my boss,

this is a different boss,

not the cool one I made the wedding cake for,

but the larger like VP boss found out I was going

to culinary school.

I actually got pulled in to his office and he asked

me like,

are you in for the longterm?

Because I was on like a promotional track.

And he was actually going to Holt promoting me because I

was going back to school and I had to ensure him

that I was not going to quit just because I was

in school that I wanted to stay so I could get

promoted. Like it was so ridiculous that even 12 years ago,

that was still the case.

And I think it's getting easier and easier in this world

now. And in corporations that they kind of let you try

something different and support that,

which is wonderful to hear and see,

because it definitely wasn't the case even a decade ago.

All right.

Well, let's pick up on your story Is one of your

goals for this year,

a new approach to social.

Are you finally admitting that you're spending far too much time

there without seeing anything in the way of results?

Or do you jump onto Instagram planning to post,

but get caught up in all the fabulously produced reels,

then you get intimidated and step back.

Yeah, me too.

We know at this point we should post consistently with quality

content, but when it comes time to actually do it,

figuring out what to post is overwhelming and time consuming.

That's why I created content for makers.

Last year.

Many of you have purchased this high value,

low cost program and have new found ease in your posting.

And guess what?

If you already have content for makers,

there's no need to purchase it ever again.

One in done because it teaches you a posting strategy and

prompts that are timeless and can be used over and over

again. Now,

based on your feedback,

I've enhanced content for makers to include a hard copy,

social media scheduler,

because makers like tangible planners where we can add our own

creative punch to the mix,

right? Drum roll,

out your topics,

whether they're for social media,

blog articles or videos,

all in one place.

Now to clarify,

this is not your daily planner,

this is focused on content planning.

It includes direction on how to nail down a strategy,

monthly cues for new content and your own images.

And it can be used in conjunction with content for makers

or as a standalone resource.

Finally feel in control of your content with a strategy and

purpose, not to something random that you think of on the

fly to publish that day.

Intentional content saves time.

So you can focus on other business tasks and attracts customers,

which brings eyes to your brand and orders to your cart.

go to gift biz on wrapped.com

And now let's get back to the show.

So you're providing samples for people who are in your office.

They're loving it.

You're starting to build a business.

Now what intermission is over,

what happens next?

As I was saying,

you know,

I definitely had these opportunities to grow and branch out.

And I felt like the more I dealt with caterers and

larger orders,

I hated it.

It stressed me out to no end and again,

balancing a corporate career and this,

it just became too much for me.

And I started just to feel that I didn't like either

thing I was doing and I just kept reassessing,

like, what do I really want to do?

And this took years,

mind you.

ish. So that's a decade.

I went,

okay. I got to figure things out.

I just cannot keep balancing these two things.

It's stressing me out.

I don't like taking cake orders anymore.

And like I felt my work was suffering from it.

Not my corporate work is my corporate work was,

I mean,

I could sleep and do that job just because I'd been

doing it for so long,

but I felt like my creative talents were suffering because the

work piece of a side hustle was stressing me out too

much. And so I was lucky at the time that I

have a very,

very supportive partner.

My boyfriend Andy is incredible.

He's my life partner.

I just wow.

Really lucky to have him in my corner.

And he looked at me,

he goes,

it is time to make a decision.

Like, what do you want to do?

You're unhappy.

Let's figure this out.

And of course my go-to answer always is I think I

want to go back to school.

I guess not everybody's path in life.

I just happened to be a school.

I always was like a crazy school nerd.

And I always felt like in me,

I always wanted to get an advanced degree in something that

was just me.

You know,

all of my high school friends have their doctorates.

And I was like,

yeah. And everybody has it.

And it's not a competition thing,

but I always felt like for me,

that was something like I could and should achieve.

Let me ask you a question at this point real quick.

So Andy was the one who said,

okay, hall timeout.

Re-look at this.

Yes. And from what you're saying,

interestingly, and this is something for all of us to think

about wherever we are in our journey.

The fact that you were getting more and more business is

what most people would aspire to.

You want those larger jobs and because the numbers are getting

bigger, but as your numbers were getting bigger,

the love and the satisfaction that you were getting from,

it was going down.

Yes. It was almost like one of those graphs where you

can see the bigger the orders,

my satisfaction level tanked.

It was one was going.

One, one was going the other way.

Again, I work in a very competitive city.

The quality of people ordering the expectation levels,

just dealing with customer service of people in New York is

very difficult,

right? So for some makers,

this is the juncture where you need to add people onto

your staff,

but depends on what you're making like for you and Marie,

your skill.

Isn't totally as duplicate a bowl.

I mean,

I guess you could get some people in the commercial kitchen

to make some of the base parts of the cake,

and then you're doing the decorating,

et cetera.

I'm not trying to go there,

but I'm just pointing out that this could happen.

But my real question to you is what would have happened

if Andy never said anything?

Was he the point where you also looked at it or

would you have just kept going or what do you think

would have happened if he didn't interject his opinion?

At that point?

I think at some point I would have hit a wall

on a breaking point.

Anyway, I was lucky that he just,

at that moment put a mirror up to me and said,

I want you to be happy.

Let's figure this out together.

Okay. So,

because I really think I was just in this like,

mindset of like,

well, I'm just going to be miserable in my career.

So I'm going to just be miserable.

My side hustle too.

Sometimes when you're stuck in it,

you can't see the forest for the trees.

Right? You need somebody to like pull you out of it

and put a mirror up to you and say,

Hey, Hey,

Hey, like stop,

let's figure this out.

And originally,

when I decided to go back to school,

it was to get my degree to possibly then open a

business. Like in my head,

I said,

okay, well maybe I will actually start a business.

But I think this degree would help me focus it a

little bit.

That was my original goal with going back for my master's

was because part of that degree,

you can go on the entrepreneurial track and write a business

paper and set that up.

So I was like,

oh, okay.

So maybe that is it because I really did want to

do something with baking rather than fashion.

I knew I needed to get out of the industry,

but I wasn't sure what,

and I was hoping the degree would finally push me in

that direction,

which it did not,

but that's good that it didn't because I found actually what

I wanted to do.

But yeah,

I think sometimes you just need to look at the people

in your life for help.

And whether that be your significant other,

your family,

your friends,

there's going to be somebody that knows you so well,

that looks at you and said,

how can I help?

And whether that is just talking through what your career moves

will be,

or actually like physically helping you,

because yes,

he would carry cakes for me and drive me around and

cut ribbons for me to tie bags.

And I would always have help from people.

I would have had a breaking moment,

but he did it sooner for me.

And I'm grateful for that.

Yeah. Okay.

So what happened?

How did this transition occur?

Yeah, so I had been for again,

typical me,

it took me a few years.

I had been eyeing up a few degrees and it was

January 1st.

A lot of things happened to me on new year's day,

sometimes a lot of like aha moments.

And it was a new year's day,

a few years ago.

And I saw that NYU had a program and that you

would have to apply by February.

And I was like,

well, it's January.

I got plenty of time.

And I did it.

And then I was like,

well, if I get in,

it was the only place I applied to.

Although there were a few other places around,

outside of New York and I was like,

I just can't leave New York.

I'm such a new Yorker.

And so I was like,

well, this is the only program I'm applying to.

So if I get in great,

if not,

I'll figure it out.

Like this is my only school option at the time.

And I got in and then I was like,

okay, this is what I'm doing.

And for me,

again, risk adverse.

I went to school part-time at first kept my corporate job

because of course,

and then eventually I just had this moment where he's like,

you gotta choose.

And I had enough emotional and financial backing that I just

did it.

And I left and I went to school full time.

And it was again just like pastry school and incredible experience

where I was like,

this is where I needed to be at this moment.

Just those signs of like,

yeah, this is what I want to do.

It was incredible.

I loved again,

every moment of being in grad school,

even to the point where I graduated during the pandemic.

So COVID-19 hit while I was doing my degree.

So that was not fun.

But the journey along the way,

really what hit me was probably within the first few months

of being in grad school,

I saw a posting,

they have job posting specifically for my,

and they were looking for a food writer with a background

in pastry.

And I went,

oh my God,

did They just create that position for you?

Right. I was like,

I'm applying to this.

I have to get this job.

And again,

it was for pastry arts magazine.

So I still write for them.

And I remember getting the email back and I was just

shaking with excitement,

shaking. I was like,

I get to write about pastry.

This is incredible.

And I just knew it,

it just hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was like,

I love this.

I get to go to like events and write about like

baguette, get competitions.

Like, this is so much fun.

I love this.

And then I took,

there are a few classes specifically for that.

So one of the other tracks you can do in this

masters is food media.

And I was like,

I think this is what I want to do.

And I took food writing and there's a food media,

like digital skills class,

which is great.

Especially for if you're a little bit older and have to

figure out exactly like the inner workings of Instagram.

That was a great class.

And I was like,

this is it.

This is it.

Wow. Wow.

Wow. I love this so very much.

And you Felt it right away.

You knew it was a perfect fit right away Immediately.

I just did.

It was just very much like being in school where I

was like,

this is the moment,

like, this is what I want to do.

As soon as I started writing and I got published,

I was like,

wow. Wow,

wow, wow.

Wow, wow.

Like adjust had that jitter,

that excitement that is like,

I love this so much.

And this is what I can do.

This is my creative outlet.

And it is stressful in a different way,

but it takes my love of pastry and takes away the

stress of producing this product that who knows what the outcome

will be.

And like puts the stress more on being creative in a

way where you can like tinker with it a little bit

more writing,

you know,

you can take a little bit more time and work with

an editor to like shape it a little bit.

And it just became my creative outlet where I was like,

oh, this is what I want to do.

Well, and you have the knowledge.

So your writing is richer and deeper than someone who hadn't

been in the industry or exposed.

Yes, yes,

yes, absolutely.

What does that saying?

Write what,

you know.

Yeah. And so absolutely.

And then the opportunities sort of started coming in.

After that,

I started writing,

got some gigs writing it's called commerce.

I don't think a lot of people know what that means.

Essentially, most websites and media platforms now earn their money through

affiliates. And so if you write about a product and it

is on Amazon,

you get,

and somebody clicks on that Amazon link when they're reading your

article, your company,

whoever you write for gets a commission off of that.

And so there is this incredible opportunity to write commerce based

food writing out there.

And it just so happens.

Oftentimes they look for somebody with a retail background to write

about these products.

Well, guess what?

I have a tremendous background in retail because I went to

school for fashion.

All they did was work for retail companies.

And so that kind of got my in there.

And so I started writing for a few different outlets,

the kitchen.com

being one of them.

And now I'm starting to write for Forbes vetted where I'm

like testing products and writing about sales and different things.

And I love that because again,

it's shopping.

So Hey,

again, something I still love to this day,

but it's an angle of like,

yeah, I can talk about kitchen products because I have every

single kitchen product you could ever wish for in my kitchen.

So let's talk about it and I'll tell you why it's

good and come from a place of expertise,

which I love doing.

And so that actually lent itself to where I am today,

just under a year ago,

I guess,

niche magazines,

talk to niche magazines.

And so the owner of pastry arts magazine,

Sean, he's an incredible human was on the phone and just

talking industry to grace and Anya McNamara who own American cake

decorating magazine.

And they said,

our editor just quit.

Do you know somebody?

And I swear to God,

this has never ever happened in my life where it's like,

oh, do you know somebody to get this job?

Like, I've always just never who,

you know,

it's just lack of submitting your resume.

This is the first time in my life where he's like,

I have somebody and he's like,

wait, let me call her first.

He talked about me,

I guess,

for like an hour.

And there was like,

wait, maybe I should call her to see if she would

like this job and called me.

And I was like,

wait, what?

Yes, put me in contact with them.

And then I finally,

you know,

so I was writing and now this is editorial where I

get to work with a bunch of contributors and develop this

magazine from start to finish.

And wow.

It is an incredible use of like my creative juices and

my organizational business brain that I had from fashion.

It's those same skills that I had in my fashion life

that I have now just developed and honed in differently to

run this magazine.

It's like Everything that you've experienced all the way from back

in ballet,

like all of it has just come together.

Yes, absolutely.

It is culminated in,

oh yeah,

I can do this.

Oh, you want me to write a calendar of when things

are due to make sure this product comes in on time?

Yeah, I can do that.

Oh, a calendar on Excel.

Yes. I can do that.

But then being able to work with creative people and just

like mold it to something where it has this product at

the end of the day,

people get to read is just,

it's such a lovely feeling.

And it's again,

very similar to the feelings of baking a cake or getting

that sweater into the store that end product where you can

be so proud of.

Yeah. It's an incredible feeling,

but there's no way I could do the job that I

do now without every random step I made in my life,

every little step or misstep or path that I've taken has

led me to this moment.

Nothing in your life goes to waste,

use every moment and every skill and everything that you could

ever learn in your life will be useful.

Absolutely. And that's the big takeaway of your story for everybody.

Who's listening is every step that you're in.

And you talk about the times when you were challenged and

you weren't happy and you were feeling fulfilled.

I want everybody to think of that.

If that's where you are right now,

this is leading to something more,

but you kept searching and taking action also.

Absolutely. Like you just didn't sit there waiting for something to

come. You reached out to find it to.

Absolutely. And one of the great things about not liking your

job or your career is you are constantly searching or that

would motivate me to constantly be searching for what's next.

Right? Like I am not happy.

What can I do to give me any ounce of happiness?

Whether that is,

you know,

I always tell my friends this,

if you don't like your job,

sometimes just updating your resume can give you that sense of

satisfaction. Knowing that if there is a job that you can

apply to,

well, look at that,

my resume is already ready because I already updated.

So sometimes just that little action of updating your resume.

I remember even when I would move,

the first thing I would do besides changing my address on

for the postal service was I would like change my address

on my resume.

Have it ready?

You never know having that like two minute elevator pitch,

those things that people tell you to do,

do them because they actually do motivate you to keep going.

I remember going to a cake show many,

many years ago,

it was like one of the only cake shows done in

New York.

And it just wasn't a great cake show.

It was like the first time they were running it,

it was kind of crappy to be perfectly honest with you.

But one of the great things there,

one of the teachers kind of realized that all of us

were a little unhappy with the quality of the cake show.

And she said this,

she said,

if you learn one thing,

if you take away one little thing from whatever situation you're

in. So one little thing from this crappy cake,

if you learn one thing,

it is worth it.

And I was like,

that is so true.

You can look at a situation,

any situation,

whether it's a cake show or whatever you're in and pick

out one thing where you're like,

I learned this it's worth.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more.

This has been amazing.

Thank you so much for sharing the story.

And I'm so glad I didn't hear it before,

because I mean,

I was in suspense this absolute whole time.

Well, I'm glad maybe one day we'll delve into my personal

life, because then that is like a whole hallmark movie and

that just adds to it.

Now I'm joking.

Oh gosh.

Well, as you project the future,

what do you see for yourself as the next year has

come by?

Yeah, I'm really hoping just to continue to develop this part

of my career and see where this takes me,

because I'm always constantly surprised what life heads and what is

in store.

And so I don't want to say,

oh, in five years from now,

I want to be the editor in chief at New York

times cooking.

Like, no,

but do I want success?

Yes. What does that look like?

I'm not sure yet,

but I want to keep investigating and I want to keep

going and I want to take every opportunity I can to

keep growing in this part of the industry.

Because if you think about it,

I'm fairly new,

only a few years into food media,

man. I've got a lot to cover in a shorter period

of time,

just because I'm a little bit older.

You know,

I'm not 22.

I don't have the rest of my career to do this.

Like I got a fast track this and I got to

keep going.

So I'm just going to push myself to see how far

I can go ride the Wave,

see what comes.

Absolutely. I'm ready for it.

Bring it on.

There you go.

I love it.

I love it.

Okay. For our bakers who are listening or people who are

considering doing something in that field,

where can people go to learn more about you and then

also cake decorating magazine or any other resource you think would

be valuable for our listeners?

So I have a website it's my own personal website.

It's nothing too crazy,

but it is Ann Marie mandala.com.

So I'm sure in the show notes,

you'll have my proper spelling of my name,

but it's Anne Marie mandala.com

and you can find me there and it's links to basically

all the pages that I write for and all the publications.

And then American cake decorating magazine is American cake decorating.com.

Very easy.

You can subscribe it as a digital subscription.

And we're working on getting back to print,

which we're really excited about.

Please join us on Instagram.

American cake decorating has tremendous amount of followers and an incredible

community of people.

So for those bakers out there,

it is a tremendous resource to be connected to us.

And if you're a professional or looking to be a professional

pastry arts magazine is an excellent resource as well.

It's pastry arts,

mag.com. You can sign up and subscribe again,

digital magazine and again,

a huge community out there of people.

And they're such an amazing supportive community,

both for aspiring and professional bakers on both magazines.

So definitely check them out.

Perfect. Lots of resources for our sweet makers out there for

A thousand percent.

Absolutely lots of resources.

Wonderful. Anne Marie,

thank you so much.

I am so glad we're connected and I really,

really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your story

today. Yes.

Thank you so much for having me.

I had a great time And Marie has a great story

in and of itself,

but I have to say my favorite line of this entire

show is her advice to recognize who you've been all along.

Why is being true to yourself so difficult when it holds

the key to your happiness,

something to ponder and then consider what you need to do

or what you need to put in place to come closer

to the person you really are sticking with the theme of

finding fulfillment in our businesses.

Next week,

we're talking about designing a predictably profitable business without the hustle

and burnout that doing quote unquote,

all the things inevitably brings forth.

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Got a really fun post in there.

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