364 – Making The Pivot From A Consumer To Wholesale Customer Focus With Amy Trout Hughes

Gift biz unwrapped episode 364.

We knew that the production schedule had to be built around

wholesale orders,

Attentive gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

It's Sue and thanks for joining me today.

I am so excited to finally announce that I've started something

new just for you.

You may have already heard it from the podcast last week.

It's called a gift biz bash.

It's an opportunity for you to get a short session of

free live training,

and then a chance to shout out your company and any

promotions you currently have going on.

Or if you're interested in a collaboration,

you can give us the details all about that and perhaps

find your next gift.

Biz bestie.

These 45 minute bashes are happening over zoom twice a month

at all different times.

So if you can't make one,

you'll definitely find another that will fit your schedule.

The very first bash is happening April 4th.

Yes, it's this Monday to see the schedule and sign up,

go to gift biz on rapt.com

forward slash bash.

It's 100% free for you to pick up a growth tip

and get eyeballs on your new products to gift biz unwrapped.com

forward slash bash.

Come join us Monday for the very first one today,

I'm bringing back a guest we've had on the show before,

but it's been a long time and her business has taken

its share of twists and turns as any business naturally does.

That's something to remember as you're starting out,

you won't land it right out of the gate.

It takes experimentation and adjustments based on what your market shows

you to get it right for Amy,

it was narrowing in on the ideal customer adjusting products to

fit their needs and rebranding.

So it all aligns.

You'll hear the details on this and more including some resources

you may not know about.

I didn't Today.

It is my pleasure to bring back on Amy trout Hughes

of marshmallow MBA Amy's career to the confectionary industry is as

non-traditional as the handcrafted marshmallows coming out of the marshmallow MBA

kitchens after a more than 20 year career as a government

and you can hear all about that way back in episode

80, marshmallow MBA is a woman owned small business handcrafting gourmet

marshmallows in more than a hundred flavors for retail and wholesale

customers. Their products are available in 28 states across the U

S and Canada,

through more than 150 independent retailers and its e-commerce shop.

Amy continually seeks to push the boundaries of candy beyond its

the beak hind marshmallow collection,

a lifestyle confection based on locally sourced,

honey and natural herbs earned marshmallow MBA.

The best innovation award from retail confectioners international.

Wow. Is that exciting,

Amy? Welcome to the gift biz on wrapped podcast.

Thanks. So happy to be here.

Well, I should say welcome back.

I guess It's always a pleasure to be with you.

I know,

I can't believe that we haven't gotten an update before now

because you and I have been at several shows together and

we're friends now.

Like I didn't really know you when I interviewed you way

back when,

and now we're great friends.

I think that's where the friendship started.

I think so.

And so I know a lot about what's been going on

with your development,

but we haven't filled in everybody.

Who's been listening here.

So I'm excited to get into your story.

And I want to use it as an example of how

a business evolves and grows and encounters new opportunities and maybe

shifts paths a little bit,

all of that,

to really settle into what your audience needs and what the

market needs Settling in.

Wouldn't that be a nice plan?

Well, I go back to that statement that I refer to

a lot,

man plans.

God laughs.

And I think God's been laughing a lot,

certainly the last two years.

Yeah, But he is a willing player in you.

A very willing partner.

Yes. Yeah.

All right.

So the last we were sharing what you were doing,

unless people are running into us at shows together and already

know you had started marshmallow MBA,

unbelievably fun creation story,

mind you.

So anyone who's listening,

I would love you to go back and listen to episode

80. Remember back then we were talking about your marshmallows and

people getting them who were like at Comicon and places like

that. Mostly retail shows.

Yep. That was like the first dipping a toe out into

the real world.

The e-commerce store has been there from the beginning and that's

just@marshmallowmba.com. But with the shows,

we were sure that we didn't want a candy store.

Both my business partner,

Sondra and I had worked in retail.

We knew we did not want to be full-time retail.

We were gap girls in the eighties.

I'll leave it at.

Yeah, you've had your share of it and then close the

door on that situation.

We had both bartended.

So we had had that customer facing experience.

So knowing that we didn't want to be full-time retail was

really, you know,

one of the legs of the business.

One of the things that we stood on,

Which is a good point because in the beginning you already

know what is off the table,

just because of your life,

what you like and what you enjoy retail shop off the

table. And I think that's something that you're only going to

know. It's like you learn more from a bad manager or

a bad employer,

at least me than you ever did from a good one

because it sort of,

then you're like,

oh, this isn't going to happen and that's not going to

happen, but I can do X,

Y, and Z.

If a,

B and C are not things that fill me with passion.

Yeah. And there are so many opportunities now than in years,

past, so much potential for doing things your way,

adjusting to different things,

selling in different platforms or different environments,

all of that.

But let's go just to ground ourselves and start from somewhere.

Let's go back from that first show that I met you

at, maybe the second show after that,

cause then we were friends.

Then I was coming,

hanging around your booth,

ground us in what your product offering was then and who

your customer was then,

and then we'll start the journey of what's happened since.

Sure. So that second show,

I guess,

where you and I met then that was when we met

in person because we had only met virtually prior to that.

Right. Because I had met Sandra first,

Correct. Actually I didn't even meet her Barb who was working,

our booth,

met her and then she said to me,

oh my gosh,

what a cool product you need to interview them for the

podcast. And the podcast was yet still new to episode 80,

Right? Yeah.

I think everything was new.

We were all new and fresh.

Yes. And we had no idea what a wonderful relationship and

friendship we'd have.

All right.

So let's go back.

What's the product and who was your ideal customer?

I'm just going to call it.

Sure. So we've always been in marshmallows.

We're not doing other candies,

so let's ground us there.

So we're very niche.

And then we're niche because we're doing gourmet marshmallows.

So we're doing flavors and we're not dipping in flavor.

We're actually putting the flavor in the marshmallow.

Our first two years was primarily retail direct to consumer online,

a lot of word of mouth marketing through our personal networks,

professional networks.

And then we kind of expanded out.

We did pop-up shows,

but again,

retail events.

So we moved into,

oh, I dunno,

wine shows wine and spirits.

Some the Comicons that you referred to before.

But then it was probably year two that we made the

jump into wholesale,

which is where we would have met you and changed our

customer target.

That was the first time we changed the customer target and

actually did a trade show where we were writing orders,

large orders.

But we were writing them for retailers who were going to

sell our products in their shops.

Yeah. I remember that time Amy,

because you and I had a conversation.

I don't know if you remember it,

but I was at your booth and I can even envision

right now,

still like the booth location,

all of it.

But you came up to me on the side and you're

like, this is blowing me away.

We've got all of these beautiful finished creations and you know

what selling,

I don't know if you call them the flat sheets or

whatever of the cut marshmallows.

Yep. Bulk for Chocolate shops to use for dipping.

Like you were just selling,

like, I'm going to just call it like the insides.

Exactly. And I remembered you.

You're like,

I can't even believe this is what's so popular right now.

So it was so exciting to watch that like enlightenment come

out. So that would have been the first Philly candy show

that we did,

where we were selling all of that bulk product.

And then we still do,

in fact,

we're selling a lot of it this year because one of

our competitors is not doing some marshmallow products and people are

scrambling to replace it for Easter.

Interesting. And probably very challenging for you.

Production-wise Production.

Yes. Super challenging for production.

Yeah. So let's get back to the products.

Okay. So we may swing back to that production,

but there's so much I want to talk with you about,

and I don't want to make this be four hours long

because I don't know if everyone Elisabet long,

but anyway,

so let's talk about the product evolution then.

So you went from direct to consumer with obviously finished products.

And then you found at the Philly show that these bulk

orders were really,

really popular.

What did you do with that realization?

So, because our wholesale orders are larger,

you know,

even two years in,

we knew that the calendar had to be built around wholesale

customers. The production schedule had to be built around wholesale orders.

If that meant,

we reduced the number of retail products that were available online,

we would do that.

If that meant that we needed to change shipping timelines,

we would have to do that.

And so that's what we did.

We lay out the calendar six months at a time.

Most of our wholesale customers order three months out,

not all of them,

The ones you love because you can plan.

You know,

I have a couple that I love,

but notoriously,

I have to call them three weeks out and say,

chef, I know you're going to want fun.

It's now or never commit now,

or it's not happening.

Exactly. And there's only two or three that are like that,

but we do love them.

So they have become friends as well.

Question for you here.

Did you have to change the number of flavors then that

you were offering?

Because I'm thinking that on the wholesale side,

they would really target into more of a finite number of

flavors. So because we're preparing to order,

we're adjusting time inventory control system.

Think of it like Dell computers,

we get the order and then we prepared a manufacturer.

It's not like we're keeping a hundred flavors on the shelf

at all times.

I have five,

maybe eight flavors that we always have going.

But other than that,

it didn't change too much.

One thing I realized is it's hard for people to make

decisions if they have a hundred flavors in front of them.

So we have changed on our wholesale listings,

the catalog listings have changed.

And so we'll list seasonal flavors.

We'll list it in flavor groupings rather than just a list.

So now we're grouping the flavors.

So if you're looking for spring flavors,

here's the seasonal five that we do.

If you're looking for fruit flavors,

here's like 10 that we do letting folks know we can

always do custom flavors.

It's one of the things about being a small batch operation.

We can produce a custom flavor for you,

whereas a larger manufacturer might not be able to do that.

All right.

And did you see that the ease in ordering and making

selections happened because of the groupings that you then offered?

I didn't quite frankly.

And this is just one of those things that it all

depends on your customer.

One thing that we started doing because a real shift happened

we were all set to expand into wholesale.

Again, primarily with wholesale we're wholesale makes up 85% of our

sales at this point.

So back then you were looking at just really enhancing and

focusing specifically on wholesale.

Yeah. So with not even so much a total switch,

but chasing a different customer segment that we had not focused

on had not targeted prior.

And you saw potential in,

obviously, Right?

Okay. So we are at the New York restaurant show.

It's the New York international restaurant show and the target customer

there, and the folks walking the floor,

there are restaurant chefs,

hospitality folks.

So whether they're private chefs,

whether they're bartenders,

caterers, also schools and industrial kitchens,

even before cloud kitchens.

So maybe it's a university kitchen,

that type of thing.

So totally restaurant and bar focused hospitality industry focused shows at

the Javits center are not cheap.

I don't have to tell anyone who's done a trade show.

What shows at the Javits center cost it's in Midtown Manhattan?

What do you want?

Normally, 35,000

people walk this show.

The show was scheduled for March 8th,

Oh gosh.

Right at the start.

If 12,000

people walk that floor over three days,

I would be shocked.

I have photos from times square.

The night before the show ended,

there were 11 people in times square,

six of them were vendors.

Wow. Because we were just completely just probably the lowest,

one of the lowest points I've ever had.

So Amy,

I'm trying to think of the rollout of all the information.

Were you in a situation where you had to decide whether

you were going to go to the show or not,

or was the information just now coming out to everybody,

where did all that come about in relation to this show?

We had already shipped all of our samples and all of

the booth materials the week prior.

And so everything is happening in tandem.

There was never a question that we weren't going to do

the show.

It was a $10,000.

Yeah. I know I've done Javits before.

I'm not going to give you my opinion of the place.

You've got it.

But I'm in agreement with you.

Convenience wise.

Wonderful. But let's just go with that.

But, And we were on the lower level of the convention

center. There was another expo on the top floor,

Which could be great.

Cause that would be more traffic.

Well, it was a beauty expo.

So lots of cosmetologists,

lots of hairdressers.

My hair looked fantastic the day before the show,

but they canceled that expo 12 hours before it was starting.

Oh wow.

They couldn't get their seminar and workshop instructors in from Europe,

the show.

But folks were already set up.

The floor was totally set up.

People had already been there three or four days.

Yeah. But gosh,

but you got to think of the people who were at

your show,

you know,

in the restaurant industry,

what are they hearing?

You're going to have to close your doors,

which we thought at that time,

maybe two weeks a month,

Maybe it's two weeks a month.

Yeah. And I think it spoke to why we didn't.

A lot of things spoke to why there wasn't traffic on

the floor.

But certainly that was one of them.

All right.

So without diving,

going down this path too far,

you were focused on the restaurant industry.

Clearly that was not going to be a play given what

was going on.

So how did you adjust from there?

Bad show,

terrible. Maybe some tears.

I don't know.

Oh, a lot.

Cause that big,

huge investment,

probably very little return at all.

Then what happens?

What do you do?

Five days of grieving,

quite frankly.

And then,

well, what can we do?

We dealt with like everyone,

like every small business out there and not even small businesses,

large businesses as well,

mixed messaging in terms of rules,

mixed messaging in terms of how you could move forward,

what you could do,

what you couldn't do.

We're based in Pennsylvania,

the candy industry is part of the manufacturing sector.

We're not grouped in with retail.

We could continue operating.

We could continue production.

I was on a call with a group of confectioners and

everyone's like,

well, I'm going to bring groceries in and I'm going to

bring this in and I'm going to bring dairy in.

And then there's this pause.

And I said,

you guys are making candy.

You're considered manufacturers read the governor's order.

And then it became,

I can't sell online.

It's called Shopify.

There's so many plugins that you can use.

We were really lucky in that situation.

Cause we were already set up to sell retail.

not wholesale,

but retail was fantastic for us.

And I'm so grateful to our customers,

our longterm customers who remembered us and came back to find

us, No.

What did you do to get the word out?

Then you knew you could stay in business because you were

manufacturing production and you had started in a different direction,

going wholesale and specifically looking at the category of restaurants.

You have to pivot.

How do you go back and communicate with the people who

had been purchasing from you,

which you knew could be at least the start of saving

the year.

Social media,

Social. Okay.

Not my favorite social was the way we went.

I started doing a Facebook live every week.

That was marshmallow Monday.

Oh, that's how that started.

Yeah. So we could let people know,

Hey, we're still alive.

We're still here.

You're not going to be able to get those horrible marshal

things that you usually get at the grocery store,

but you can get stuff from us.

So we did a lot of that.

We used Instagram to show people what the products look like.

It was the first time though,

too, that we realized we could sell product without sampling it

because sampling people want to try it before they buy it.

Yeah, not right now.

Well still,

but what we realized was our customers who knew the product,

we're also spreading the word.

And so they could say,

oh yeah,

I've tried it.

My kids love it or oh yeah,

I've tried it.

My office loves it.

That helped a lot.

Just that word of mouth marketing.

Were you doing any emailing at that point?

A little,

our emails tend to really get lost.

I still struggle with that.

I'm doing a little better,

weren't managing our mailing lists that well that's changed.

Okay. So you saw an opportunity with your past existing customers

and they were spreading the word.

And I remember back at that time too,

like we couldn't get together for birthday parties or any type

of celebration.

And certainly for Easter,

we couldn't be with a family.

So your product solved such a big need for people of,

yeah, we can't be together,

but here's something that's going to be really special.

So it's not just Easter egg thing that you can can

or cannot get at your local store.

You didn't know.

I don't know that we were out of everything yet,

but things weren't being produced.

The stores were closed in our area.

The stores were closed.

Okay. So that created a challenge.

It felt for me very much three steps forward,

two steps back.

But what I really needed to focus on and you and

I have talked about this in other conversations,

making sure that you celebrate the small wins,

which I'm not good at.

And I certainly wasn't good at it at the height of

the pandemic.

It wasn't until I took a step back probably a year,

maybe 15 months in and could see,

I didn't think we were going to survive going on his

life. Well,

everything was so unknown.

Just the numbers were scary business.

You were so restricted.

It was like kind of being in a straight jacket,

no matter what type of business And I couldn't travel state

to state.

So remembering that I don't live in Pennsylvania,

even though we manufacture in Pennsylvania and then I had to

get this letter just in case I was stopped by the

police. And anyway,

I remember being on a couple of your lives when you

were saying yes tomorrow,

I'm going,

let's see if I can get there.

And if I can get back Very like smokey and the

bandit. Yeah.

All right.

So I want to get out of the pandemic issue really,

but it's important because it impacted the growth of how you

would move your product and where you would transition your product

and all of that.

So let's keep going,

understanding that there were serious challenges with what you were going

to be able to do for a little bit of time.

You resorted back and direct to consumer your past customers,

where your saviors and really important point And then Easter,

and then mother's day hit.

And everything falls off the cliff after mother's day because apparently

dads don't like sweets.

So what we realized based on our own supply needs,

how many wholesale portals had popped up.

And so we knew there weren't going to be any trade

shows. So we started investigating wholesale portals.

And the best way I can explain it is think of

it like Amazon for wholesalers.

If you're not familiar with what a wholesale portal is,

it's basically an online 24 by seven trade show.

Okay? Like a virtual show,

A virtual show,

but they're up 365 days a year.

We had two companies reach out to us about our products

and adding the product to the portal.

When you say portal,

we do call fear a portal,

Fair Mabel,

indie me.

Those are our top three.

Okay. There are a couple that I have pulled our products

off of just because of how they were managed.

But we didn't know that.

Then it's like,

we're going to put it out everywhere and see what happens

when you say we're going to list our products on a

wholesale portal.

You don't.

I had no idea what was going to happen.

I'm like,

well, if people can't try the products,

they're not going to buy anything.

So then it's a matter of how are we selling these

products? I knew we had text descriptions.

I can write content all day long.

What we didn't have were good photos.

And so we had to clean up the photos.

That's an ongoing challenge,

not so much the photo itself,

but before you put yourself on more than one wholesale portal,

if you're thinking of going that route,

make sure you see what the,

the image sizing and image quality and all of that is

every single one of them is different here.

I'm thinking,

well, I got photos.

Here you go.

Yeah, wrong,

Wrong. Oh.

And we need to be on a black background.

We needed to be on a white background.

This one can't have a logo on it.

This one has to have a logo that was some backend

work. Certainly.

We also had to adjust pricing because now 80% of the

portals take a commission.

I mean,

they gotta make money.

Right. So adjusting pricing.

So it was not out of line,

but still making allowances for that loss of that percentage loss.

Right. Really big point here.

Yeah. And I don't love accounting.

You and I have talked about that before I went to

business school and learned,

I shouldn't be an accountant.

I learned I should outsource my accounting,

but pricing is different.

Another decision point that I had to make was should we

hire someone to do sales?

Should we partner with a distributor or are these online portals

the right way to go and doing the numbers six ways

to Sunday,

it worked out.

It was a better situation for us to go with the

online portals than it was to hire someone specifically for sales.

And what about any adjustments to your product line when you

went on these portals?

We'll hear what Amy has to say about that right after

a quick break to hear from our sponsor.

Yes. It's possible increase your sales without adding a single customer.

How you ask by offering personalization with your products,

wrap a cake box with a ribbon saying happy 30th birthday,

Annie, or at a special message and date to wedding or

party favors for an extra meaningful touch.

Where else can you get customization with a creatively spelled name

or find packaging?

That includes a saying whose meaning is known to a select

to not only our customers willing to pay for these special

touches. They'll tell their friends and word will spread about your

company and products.

You can create personalized ribbons and labels in seconds,

make just one or thousands without waiting weeks or having to

spend money to order yards and yards print words in any

language or font,

add logos,

images, even photos,

perfect for branding or adding ingredient and flavor labels to for

more information,

go to the ribbon print company.com.

So we do not your point about the flavors and how

many flavors we have on the portals.

We list the best sellers within the products,

the s'mores on forks.

Those we list the full product list because those tend to,

you know,

people do those in collections,

but we're doing individually wrapped marshmallows.

Well, those are 10 flavors.

If you want to do them in another flavor,

then it's a custom order kind of thing,

small boxes.

I think we list those and all the flavors too,

because we had already edited those down to what was selling.

The wands are already the best sellers.

The two that weren't working,

we actually do.

It's not that they weren't working.

It's just,

they don't sell year round.

So we now have them available seasonally.

Our customers can.

Pre-order that's one thing that we really liked with the online

portals. There are some people who are ordering their Memorial day

products in February.

I love them.

So that was something it made it better than the order

writing shows for us because oftentimes with the order writing shows,

for example,

one that we had done is in September.

And if everyone's ordering for Thanksgiving and Christmas,

that's can be harder to set the timing up,

but you also have people that want stuff for Halloween.

And so for whatever reason,

it doesn't sound like it should make a difference,

but it does.

Yeah. All right.

But it's a good thing to talk about because the way

the orders were coming in and the timing changed when you

went on these portals.

So you needed to make a little adjustment about how you

would manage through all of that.

Right. And it actually makes it easier.

Quite frankly,

we set up a window.

When we,

for example,

for fare our order window on there,

the turnaround is 11 to 14 days.

That's the soonest you're going to get product is 11 days.

We probably do most of them in 10,

but you have to allow for shipping and that sort of

thing. But we can also adjust that.

For example,

November of last year,

orders came in late for the holidays.

They really started hitting in October and then people still wanted

product right up against the holiday,

which was something new for us.

Normally we ship our last wholesale orders,

the 15th that's the absolute last day they go,

but people were willing to come pick up right up until,

so we did have to shift the timeline out a bit

and we can do that.

It does allow you some flexibility.

So rather than me having to call someone and saying,

Hey, your order is going to be delayed.

By 10 days,

we just shifted our shipping window and made it 14 to

20 days with the caveat that normally we get things out

earlier, but understand because of demand.

Yeah. And let's face it.

It's the holidays.

Everyone understands things take longer.

Plus we have the overlay of the delivery issues,

the delay in delivery holiday always,

and then supply chain issues and people actually being running the

trucks and all that.

Like we had everything,

everything you wanted was thrown at us in December.

For sure.

So you would think that on a personal level,

people hear that on a personal level,

people understand that on a small business level,

I would say a good 5% of our customers did not.

I Believe that 5% is 50%.

Okay. I just wanted to make reference to everybody.

So you heard a little bit ago that Amy was referencing

small works.

This is a signature product of marshmallow MBA.

And I think we talked about it back in episode 80,

but you can also go right onto their website,

marshmallow mba.com

and see what they are signature product.

If you are in any type of consumable business,

definitely consider a signature product.

That's all I'm going to say about that,

because guess what,

Amy, the two things that I really,

really wanted to talk to you about,

we haven't even started yet.

So we're going to just jump right into those right now.

You should know that smokes are now trademark pending.

Oh, cool.

Cool, cool.

So that's just a matter of time until it's happens.

Correct. The paperwork's in Very exciting and I'm glad you're doing

that. Covering your bases.

When you know,

you have a hit,

like that's the thing.

And I guess we will talk about this for just a

half a second,

just because you make a product doesn't mean you should trademark

it right away.

You need to make sure that people are going to buy

it because why are you going to spend all that money,

protecting something that no one is even interested in.

And when Hershey's walks past your booth at a trade show

and starts picking up the product,

start the paperwork.

Oh my gosh.

Yes. I bet that left.

You sleepless for a few nights.

We had known we wanted to do the trademark.

It was more,

how fast can I get it registered?

Right. Yeah.

And some of that is timing too.

Correct? You have to be in the market for a while

before you can get that little beautiful our symbol.

Yes. This has been really interesting in terms of marshmallow MBA,

growth progress,

things that you encountered,

hopefully many people who start now won't encounter some of these

crazy world things that you have.

Oh, let's hope.

Yeah. So now I want to talk about the fact that

you decided you needed to do some rebranding,

Correct? Let's start with why,

like when did you decide that that was something you needed

to do and why?

So four years in and will be six years old in

March? I don't know if we talked about that.

So about four years in when the original logo concept was

Sandra's and it filled a niche that we needed to fill

because we didn't have a logo And Hey,

many people will start that way to just get some identity

up and they'll create it themselves.

That's very standard for people to do.

And she was very,

very wedded to the idea of having marshmallows in the logo

design. And to be brutally honest,

I was and continue to be so focused on the strategy

and the product I'm like,

yeah, whatever,

go ahead.

You know,

sometimes you have to just give it up to God and

let go.

Part of being in a partnership too,

I'll say,

Right. It was not something I had any having come up

with the name,

you know,

with Keith and I haven't come up with a name I'm

like, yeah,

whatever go have at it.

So we had the little marshmallow mob of guys,

which was perfectly fine,

but as our customer demographic was changing,

we didn't move into a premium product.

We were recognized as a premium product,

a luxury product,

if you will,

because it's gourmet marshmallows,

a luxury price point.

So we needed the brand to reflect that.

So really we were probably three and a half,

four years in and Sandra and I had talked about it

back and forth.

What did we want in the new brand?

We did not hire someone to do the branding.

We did not bring in a consultant for $12,000.

It was brainstorming.

And then it was a weekend,

totally out of the kitchen where we worked through multiple designs

and then crowdsourced them.

We took it to people.

We trusted,

including you to vet the designs,

to vet the options.

After we had narrowed down and could not make a decision

ourselves, it was too much back and forth.

And then it was going to be me just throwing something

at the wall and hoping it stuck.

So we wanted to get other opinions on it.

So we did.

And so in July of 21 launched the new branding,

which is what you see on the website,

which is what you see on the labels.

Now we stuck with corporate colors rather than a graphic image,

which does go against trend.

I'm not going to lie.

We had folks who were like,

no, there needs to be a picture.

There needs to be a graphical representation,

a graphic representation of the marshmallow.

And we just didn't want to do that again.

And so sticking with just a text based logo worked well

for us for right now,

you know,

will it change again?

Sure. Of course.

Things all about,

yeah. I expect that it might,

especially with the way the company's evolving.

Well, I have to say the colors you selected.

I absolutely love,

Oh, thank you.

The black background,

I'll be honest.

I wasn't wedded to that,

but it really pops against the product and that signature blue.

I love,

we've also changed out some of our packaging to pick up

colors in the logo.

Now we have a plan to use different color background,

flipping the color of the text and the background on some

limited edition products.

That'll be how we use that.

So it gives us flexibility.

We didn't have with the previous logo and it really is

being well-received,

it's definitely upscaled the packaging and how people perceive the products.

So we're happy with it.

We're very happy with it.

Wonderful. And just to summarize what you had said,

I mean,

the real reason you felt you wanted to change was your

customer changed.

You were no longer direct to consumer,

which your other logo worked wonderfully.

It was very playful and fun,

but it was definitely more retail,

consumer oriented,

I guess I would say.

And family-friendly focused.

Yeah. Well we do still have family friendly products.

A lot of our growth has been in some of the

premium, happy hour flavors.

It is more of an adult product than it is a

kid product.

You did it for all the right reasons,

obviously. Well,

I love that you included other opinions for everyone else.

If you're looking at changing a logo or you're just starting

run it by some people.

And see,

I actually did that with my podcast logo.

When I changed it this past summer,

I went into gift biz breeze and asked everyone for their

opinion. I had like three or four different ones knowing I

would like any of the ones they chose,

because how terrible would that be?

If someone like everyone was one and you're like,

yeah, I don't like that one.

I'm not going to do it.

Well then why ask my opinion?

We don't like any of them.

Yeah. Oh,

well that would even be worse,

but it is good because you're getting other eyes sometimes you're

just too close to things.

And that's exactly what happened after six hours of staring at

the same thing and just a tweak to the font or

just a tweak.

It became untenable.

So, okay.

We have colleagues that we trust And we did a focus

group. We got on a zoom call and you presented,

I think you actually had a slide deck to,

you talked about the reasoning and what was happening.

I Was a consultant for how long?

Of course I had a slide deck.

Of Course you did.

Alright. So interesting on the branding,

I'm kind of squeezing in these last two topics because we

talked so much about business development.

Anything else that you think we all need to know about

your experience with rebranding before we move on?

It's a challenge,

but you know,

it's an opportunity to use a different side of your brain.

So even if you think you don't want to be creative

that way,

and then you don't have the time to do it,

it actually allowed us to look at more than just the

branding. It allowed us to consider packaging options.

It allowed us to consider our customers and going forward,

who we want our customers to be.

All of these things influence the branding.

So your whole strategy behind where you were taking the business,

you were forward-thinking with that because you wanted the new logo

to fit in with what your future vision is.

Correct. All right.

Wonderful. And the idea of the fact that you could open

your mind to new packaging and all that is great as

well. So new branding to me is kind of like when

you move into a new house,

you get to decide where everything is going to sit and

fit and what cupboards and all of that.

It's kind of like that when you're rebranding to what products

still fit with the brand,

where are we going in the future?

Who is our customer?

Like who do we invite over to our house?

You know,

that kind of thing just gives you an open platform to

re-look at everything.

I think if everybody's on the same page,

there's an opportunity for that.

I think I'll leave it there.

Okay. Well,

I think the more people you have in the business who

have the ability to speak and guide the vision,

it's always more challenging when it's not just you.

Yes. And so you have to just figure and work through

that. And it takes more time when you have multiple opinions,

it's always more challenging pros and cons to partnerships other eyes.

And as you get bigger,

bigger departments in your business,

More to come on that front.

Yeah. Your job kind of changes too,

but let's not go there.

The other thing I really want to talk with you about

Amy, that I don't know anything about.

So I am going to be learning this with everybody else

is the Amazon smiles program.

What it's about what you saw as the benefit to integrating

it in for marshmallow MBA.

So take it away.

Tell us about that.

Sure. So the background on it is corporate social responsibility has

been part of our business from day one.

That was what I hung my hat on in business school

when I got my MBA.

And I think it is so,

so critical.

And that means to me being a good partner in your

community locally,

regionally, nationally,

our business reflects who we are,

small businesses reflect their owners.

And so it was important to me to be a good

steward of resources and be giving back to the community.

However we can,

we do it in a few ways.

One of those ways is the Amazon smile program,

which allows you.

When you make a purchase on Amazon,

you use,

instead of just going to amazon.com,

you go to smile.amazon.com

and the smile program donates a percentage.

Now to be fair,

it is less than 1% for some of the donations,

but it donates a percentage of your spending back to a

nonprofit that you choose.

We try and source locally as much as we can,

but you know,

I'm not to lie.

Sometimes Amazon's the way to go.

If I know I can get it in a day and

I've been a member of Amazon prime for 20 years.

So it's not like this is something new.

The smile program is at least 10 years old and it

covers thousands of non-profits.

Whether you're talking about a local church,

whether you are looking at planned parenthood,

you can donate either to nationally or you can donate to

your local facility.

You can donate to animal rescue organizations,

child welfare organizations.

If you go to smile.amazon.com

there's information on there,

how you register for that,

and really you register one time and that's it.

You're done.

You make your purchases the same as you'd normally make them

Amazon takes care of the donation.

Okay. So if I were just to go to amazon.com

and search for marshmallows,

would marshmallow MBA come up or only if I go to

the smiles program?

So neither one.

So this has nothing to do with our brand.

This has to do with our purchasing on Amazon,

with what we purchase for business or personal use to full

transparency. We are not selling on Amazon.

Okay. I thought this was a portion of the proceeds of

a sale,

but this is where you're going and purchasing inventory product.

Maybe it's equipment that you're using in your production facility,

shoot paper,

towels, Any of that.

So given that we all should be purchasing things like that

from Amazon,

you know,

if it can go back to a charity,

If it can go back to a charity,

if you're going to go to another retailer and buy it,

if you're going to go to a big box store and

buy it,

you might look at Amazon first.

Yeah. I'm not saying take away from small business purchase it.

No. And neither yet neither would.

This is an easy way.

When I stopped having a weekly paycheck,

I stopped having automatic withdrawals.

When I was a consultant.

You know,

my paycheck comes in.

I was donating to the combined federal campaign.

I was donating to nonprofits directly.

My paycheck came in and there was an automatic withdrawal that

would go to a nonprofit,

depending on who it was at the time I was donating

to probably seven to 10 different charities annually.

I've cut back on that a little.

I'm not going to lie,

but we make in kind donations of product to different nonprofits.

We probably get six or eight requests a month for product.

And we help where we can.

We make at least one a month.

We try to do up to four a quarter.

So we're doing up to 16 in any given year of

in kind donations.

And they can be silent auction donations,

that type of thing.

But with Amazon,

when we're making purchases of products that we need and gift

bags, a pop-up event,

or we have something we're going to make a bunch of

sales calls.

And I happened to not keep track of inventory and I

need 25 bags.

I'm going to do it on Amazon.

Yeah. Because you've already set up how that's going to work.

So it's connected with your account.

And so anything that you're purchasing then,

and you still go to smile.amazon.com

right. To make the purchase.

Right. Correct.

And it'll ask you,

so say you are on Google and there's something on there.

I don't know.

We'll stick with paper towels and it's paper towels on Amazon.

When, if you would just click on that main link on

your search page.

When you go to Amazon,

if you are registered with the smile program,

it will prompt you.

Do you want to go to this product on the smile.amazon.com

page? Okay.

And is the product then more expensive when you buy it?

It is the same price.

So the money is not coming off of you.

It's coming off of something.

Well, margin,

like, I don't know what I think it is coming off

of. Amazon's proceeds.

So even though the donation is made in your name,

cause at the end of the year,

you get a little statement,

you know,

your purchases have resulted in X,

hundreds, thousands of millions of dollars back to the charity of

your choice.

Okay. So I'm going to say this.

I'm thinking this all through.

Okay. So no,

we do not want to take business from other small businesses

and purchase on Amazon.

What we can purchase from a neighboring business who needs our

orders to keep running.

So that's not the point.

I want to say that right from the start.

But if there are things that you have to buy,

like bags Amy are talking about,

or like I'm thinking like skewer sticks,

Which are actually more expensive on Amazon than they are from

my local retailer.

Okay. All right.

Well Labels So bad,

Like bags,

tape, even things that you just need for shipping.

But let me follow through with all of this too.

And this is one of the things I talk about with

people when we're talking about costing your product and what the

cost of goods are,

cost of goods also includes the cost of shipping the product

to you or you jumping in the car having to drive.

So that's a little bit of gas and that's clearly time.

And the time value of money needs to be factored into

your price,

Right? So if you are an Amazon prime customer,

you get free shipping and you go to the smile program

and byproducts again,

not taking away from smaller businesses,

but these bigger bulk products that you need.

Right. Correct.

That is where you're getting the value because it's getting shipped

to you.

You're not having to take the time.

And you're also giving to a cause of your own choice.

We have found that some of our suppliers,

I wouldn't put them in the small business category.

I would definitely put them in the medium sized business category,

but we have found that they are selling on Amazon and

we're normally I would pay for shipping on their website.

I can get it through Amazon free shipping and get it

in a day because where we are,

most of our orders are there the next day.

And price is,

if it is usually we use a buck 50 to two

50 as the benchmark for us,

maybe we say,

so say three to 5% kind of thing.

But when you factor in your gas and your time,

and it's been the time factor,

that's been the more critical thing,

honestly, for us,

if we were going to drive for something or if it

was going to take five days to get to us,

you're going to sometimes that one to $5 and knowing that

I'm giving back,

that makes a huge difference For sure.

Are they promoting this program very much?

It doesn't sound like it.

So they were for a while and now I will occasionally

get a teaser email about it,

but I haven't seen one in a long time.

Usually it's the nonprofits themselves that are promoting it.

Okay. Makes sense.

Well, this is interesting.

I didn't know about the program at all.

And Mike,

everybody, I used to not be an Amazon shopper very much.

And now,

you know,

again, when it's bulk things,

I'm using it all the time.

Look, you know what our you line,

where we buy all of our boxes for the ribbon print

company, right?

Like now you can't even pick up anymore.

And shipping literally hundreds and hundreds of boxes is a disaster.

If you go to my Instagram account,

which is marshmallow MBA,

cause I'm so creative,

there are videos of us throwing our you line catalog off

the back porch of the offices.

I can't tell you the number of times I have called,

I have emailed.

I have texted.

I have messaged do not include a catalog in our shipment,

but really do not send me a separate catalog because I

don't need five catalogs.

Not every person who works for the company needs their own

copy of the catalog every two months.

Right? And I don't need to be paying $65 in shipping

when five pounds of it is that catalog,

Right? That was my tangent.

Well, I agree with You.

We're trying to start a viral movement.

We'd love to start a viral movement of people flinging their

Ulan, catalogs out their front door,

off the mailbox.

I mean,

as much as I have loved you line.

And I think the quality of their products is best.

The catalogs have to go.

They could save so much money on those catalogs,

not only printing but shipping And those are expensive,

that glossy full color,

heavy paper Point taken.

Well, this has been so interesting and we did get all

of our topics covered.

I wanted to talk about the progress of the business,

which I'm more proud of you than I can even say,

like having seen you in the beginning and where you come

being part of some of the conversations that include struggles.

Cause that's part of growing a business.

We all know.

And then your rebranding and understanding about the Amazon smile program,

all of that.

It's exactly what I wanted to talk about today.

So Amy,

thank you so,

so much for coming on,

being honest,

giving us your little sideline commentary that really gives us a

peek into what's going on and all of the wisdom.

I appreciate it.

And I appreciate you being a champion for as long as

you have been.

I love having our friendship.

So that's also one of the good things that's come out

of marshmallow MBA,

more to come,

certainly this year,

lots of things happening,

and I'll be excited to share those with you going forward.

Oh, I can't wait.

Well, wonderful Amy,

thank you again so much.

I continue to be inspired and impressed by Amy's strategic savvy,

the changes she's made to marshmallow MBA,

position it for even more explosive growth in the years ahead.

How does this apply to you?

Use her as an example,

observe the responses you're getting online and it shows and think

through as emotionless as possible,

what it means and what you should do next to get

the results you're after.

Sometimes it's just a tweaker too.

That can change everything before you move on to your next

activity today.

Make sure to get your name on the list for this.

Monday is a gift biz bash.

You can also see all the dates for April and may

and get signed up@giftbizonwrapped.com

forward slash bash up next Saturday.

It's all about Pinterest.

Again, call this Pinterest 2.0

where we go past account set up and pinning and into

some of the really cool things that you can do here.

I become more and more impressed with Pinterest.

The more I learn if you're enjoying this show and would

like to show support,

you can visit my merch shop for a wide variety of

inspirational items.

There are mugs t-shirts water bottles and more featuring logos images

and quotes to inspire you throughout your day makes a great

gift to,

and we've just added some brand new products to the shop.

I've found turnaround to be quick.

And the product is top-notch take a look at all the

options over at gift biz,

unwrapped.com forward slash shop all proceeds.

When you purchase any of these items,

booze to help offset the cost of me producing this show

and now be safe and well.

And I'll see you again.

Next time for the gift biz unwrapped podcast.

I want to make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook

group called gift is breeze.

It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reaction from other people and just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making my favorite post every single week,

without doubt.

Wait, what aren't you part of the group already,

if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search

for the group gift biz breeze don't delay.