027 – An American Under the Tuscan Sun with Jayne Wagner of Hickory Creek Winery

Gift biz unwrapped episode 27.

It's brought in a huge stream of revenue for us that

was so easily implemented.

Hi, This is John Lee,

Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,

and you're listening to gift to biz unwrapped,

and now it's time to light it.

Welcome to gift biz,

unwrapped your source for industry specific insights and advice to develop

and grow your business.

And now here's your host,

Sue Monheit hi there and welcome to unwrapped podcast.

Whether you own a brick and mortar store sell online Or

are just getting started,

you'll discover new insight to gain traction and to grow your

business. And today I'm joined by Jane Wagner.

Jane's background includes over 25 years in advertising media.

She began working for advertising agencies and then moved into the

print and digital advertising sales position for national magazines,

including reader's digest.

Good housekeeping,

Harper's bizarre and bone Appetit.

The work-life was intense and called for frequent travel.

How many of us can relate to that?

After having been in New York city on nine 11 and

then facing cancer three years later,

fortunately diagnosed early her desire to find a better life balance

became a priority.

Jane and her husband,

Eric bought a weekend farm and vineyard retreat in Southwest Michigan

about 11 years ago and became interested in making wine.

They purchased Hickory Creek winery four years ago and have since

tripled sales in the tasting room,

Eric handles the wine making and vineyard work.

And Jane does all the marketing sales events and managing of

the tasting room.

Jane's take on the business.

It's truly been a labor of love,

lots of blood,

sweat, and tears,

but it is certainly so rewarding to actually create and sell

a beautiful product that we crafted ourselves.

Welcome to the show,

Jane. Thanks.

I'm excited.

Sue, is There anything you'd like to add to your intro

before we get started?

I think You've covered it very well.

The only thing I neglected to tell you is that we

also, as part of the winery property,

we rent out a guest house and instead of calling it

bed and breakfast,

we call it bed and wine.

So it's BMW.

Oh, I love that.

As our listeners know,

we like to align the conversation around the life of a

motivational candle.

The light shines on you while you share your stories and

experiences. So Jane,

shall we,

I'm not even going to say light it up.

Shall we drink and light the candle at the same time?

Yes. Sounds wonderful.

So let's pretend I'm walking into your tasting room.

I'm going to envision a beautiful Woodline room and you've got

some wine lined up for us to taste.

And you've also got a beautiful candle sitting on the tasting

table. What color is that candle?

Well, It would be my favorite color,

which is turquoise.

What about turquoise?

Do you love?

I've always loved family of blue colors and for some reason

it's always attracted me.

And it's interesting because I'm born in December and I guess

that's the gym for that month.

So I don't know.

Maybe there's some truth in that and assigning a gym.

It, Yeah,

we got the same birthday month I might add.

Oh, great.

Well, mine's new year's Eve.

So I'm a little earlier.

You can,

you get to have a big party every year.

And what is the motivational quote that would be on that

candle? It'd be one from Gandhi.

And I truly believe this that a man is,

but a product of his thoughts and what he thinks he

becomes. And I can say that's been the case since I

was a child and not even really conscious of that,

but it just is,

things have turned out that way.

It's crazy.

It's that law of attraction type thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I talked a lot in your intro about the advancement

of your career from being in advertising sales and then happening

upon this whole new venture that you have.

But let's talk about a little bit.

Can you give us some more details,

start from when you thought,

you know,

I'm going to change this up.

I don't want to travel anymore.

Advertising sales now is something that I want to move out

of and into something else.

How did you get into this whole app?

Is the idea of a vineyard?

Well, yeah,

it just fell into place,

basically, because as you mentioned after the events of being in

New York on nine 11 and being with a group of

people who actually lost loved ones at the time and all

that emotion surrounding that I've found after that trauma,

actually, I wasn't able to travel very well without having panic

attacks and anxiety.

And I started thinking about the career that I was in.

I loved it,

but it was highly stressful and I just really wasn't enjoying

it as much.

When I started in advertising sales,

it really was a business of relationships,

which I loved.

And as things have transpired,

it's really become more about numbers and really not even face-to-face

contact anymore and expense cows cut back.

You know,

you really couldn't do the fun stuff and fostering that.

That's one of the things I love.

I love people.

I have an intense curiosity about people and what they do.

So it really wasn't as fulfilling anymore.

I actually was able to fortunately cut back and do sort

of part-time gigs where I would fill in for people in

ad sales that were on maternity leave or taking some kind

of medical family leave that sort of thing.

So I would do three month stints at different magazines and

only fund,

you know,

do that and do it short term.

And you could always walk away at the end and it

was a well-paid.

And I did that for a few years.

And then eventually my husband,

who is also a veterinarian needed a new practice manager vet

clinic. And so I decided to take that leap and go

in there and help him with that.

At the same time,

we were looking to really find a place,

sort of a retreat we could go to over the weekend.

And we found a farm in Michigan and ended up just

loving going there.

We would travel every weekend.

We started up a vineyard,

we started doing some beekeeping.

We just were really enjoying the rural life.

Okay, wait So back up a minute.

So you want to find a retreat really just to go,

to, to be able to get away on the weekends.

Right. Right.

And so at what point did it turn into this is

going to be a business that we're going to develop.

How did that all happen?

You didn't just wake up one morning and all of a

sudden you have the business.

Right? Right.

So we were getting into growing grapes.

We planted a vineyard.

Actually my husband did all the work.

We bought a 40 acre farm.

And part of that,

we had vines on there.

We planted some mines and then we became a Lot just

as a hobby.

Yeah. And then we got,

we got more interested in wine making my husband has always

been into that and making,

crafting beer wine,

you name it,

his undergraduates microbiology.

So you love making things.

So I would help him out.

And we loved,

there was a wine trail in the area near our farm,

and we would visit the different wineries and they all grow

fruit locally and were able to craft wines that were as

good as what you would get in Europe because it's similar

climate characteristics.

We heard about a winery that was for sale.

And we ended up taking the leap.

We thought,

oh, this would be sort of a fun,

what we thought kind of semi-retirement hobby thing to do.

And while still keeping our life in the Chicago area,

we'd go back and forth every week.

And so we took on the winery,

it was a big project.

It was kind of run down.

It had been neglected for a few years and it's been

about four years now and it's just been nose to the

grindstone, keeping it going.

And now it's really taken off.

So what were the differences initially,

if it was a hobby and that's where you and Eric

could kind of get your fingers wet,

if you will,

and all the grapes,

you're doing it for fun,

but what changes or what realizations did you have making a

switch from being a hobby to being a business?

I guess One of the biggest things was seeing immediate results

from the improvements that we were making.

We jumped in the deep end.

They're not really realizing how much work is truly involved because

with a winery and vineyard,

you know,

you actually grow the product,

you make the product and you sell the product.

There are so many aspects to that.

So you Had to purchase equipment.

Then if you were going to really turn it into a

business, Yes,

we had to purchase some equipment.

Now there was some there,

but we had to purchase additional equipment.

We had to expand the space,

the production area wasn't large enough.

And it wasn't really to code.

We had to cover their production area and close that.

And then we had to rip out five acres of mines.

We are slowly replanting.

Those, those had been neglected and covered in poison Ivy.

So that,

and then we also had to tend to the actual revenue

producing area,

which is in our tasting room and kind of spiff that

up. I had to hire new staff,

expand staff,

train them,

and then also reach out to restaurants and get our product

out to stores and restaurants primarily in the Chicago area.

So that involved also my calling on restaurants,

going door to door and selling to some of your sales.

Exactly. Which I love,

which you said you loved.

Yeah. Yes,

yes, exactly.

So face to face in the tasting room and then also

outside in the,

the restaurant.

And like I said,

store market,

But it sounds like a lot of work,

but terribly exciting.

It was so exciting.

The first summer there,

we had a huge heat wave,

the grapes,

like the heat and the sunshine.

So we had a tremendous harvest.

So the first year was just a whirlwind of activity,

excitement, the big harvest.

And my husband loved that,

crafting all the different wines.

And then in subsequent years,

you know,

we've had challenges because of this polar vortex that came down

over the great lakes that we've lost a lot of vines

and it's very heartbreaking and we've been exposed to what it's

really like to be a farmer and not being in control.

So what Did you do about that?

That leads perfectly into my next question,

in that when you start a business,

you know,

you think you can lay everything out and it's going to

be absolutely perfect.

And everything's going to run according to plan and all that.

And as we certainly know about farming,

which is what wine making of course is,

is you're alluding to,

there are those struggles,

whether that you can not control.

So what did you do about that?

Well, You just have to be incredibly adaptable.

You figure out ways around it.

Now we were fortunate.

We took a gamble on our first two harvest.

We harvest as much as we could.

We do source grapes from local vineyards.

So we'll get,

say a Pinot noir,

grape from a vineyard.

We know that has great.

Puno, Nawara,

we'll get a recycling from another vineyard all within like a

10 mile radius of the winery.

And we contracted and we spent a lot of money,

made a huge investment,

but we thought let's just go,

why the going's good?

And let's bring in all these grapes,

which was great because then the last two years,

last year,

there was no harvest.

It was so sad.

And this year we're going to have a small,

like a modest harvest.

And a lot of the other wineries in the area are

having to actually bring in juice from the west coast,

California, Oregon,

Washington. They literally take semis and pack them with wine juice,

and then ship them over here.

And that's what we just have to do.

If you want to have products,

Then it still goes through your process in terms of the

wine creation.

Correct. So then you,

can, you still put the label on as it's yours,

right. And then do you have to make any mention of

where the grapes Come from?

Yeah. That's another really complicated part about being in any kind

of liquor industry is a government regulations that bureaucracy involved with

that. But it's good though,

because you do have to list it as American.

So you don't source your local.

What's called American viticulture area,

which is our lake,

Michigan shore and Michigan.

Normally we put that on the bottle,

but because let's say the grapes don't come at the tos,

doesn't come from our area.

Then we can just say American table wine or whatever.

So I see.

Okay. Yeah.

That makes sense.

Is there any other challenges that you've had as you've been

building the business that you think you have some advice or

some guidance for our listeners who are just starting off in

business, Really all about service,

particularly in the wine industry.

What we've learned is that it's about the experience.

It's not necessarily serving up the best wine or intimidating people

say when they come in,

like, oh,

we got the finest wine.

It's more about making it a real destination experience.

If people find it romantic,

they find it really interesting.

Of course,

everyone loves to drink wine or most people do anyway and

it's educational.

But we also are finding that it's becoming more of a

destination for root parties,

like bachelorette parties,

wedding parties,

that sort of thing I learned early on.

It was all about hiring staff for their personality.

Not necessarily for their knowledge because you can train people,

but you can't train personality.

Oh, that's a really good point.

And so what are you looking at as you go through

the interview process?

What are your signals that this is a go or a

no-go a lot Of it is that people that seek us

out the best hires that I've had,

or people that have come to me and said,

well, I want to work here.

You know,

I love mine.

This is what I want to do.

And I make sure,

okay, you know,

you love wine,

but have you worked in a service or hospitality industry,

that sort of thing.

It's a very demanding job.

You have to be up for six hours and sometimes it

can be difficult.

You know,

people sometimes are a little overserved.

You're legally bound to make sure you don't serve that person

anymore wine.

And you know,

sometimes it's tough.

I mean,

I've never been a bartender,

but you really,

you have to be on and keeping them happy,

but also towing the line that they don't get overserved and

that sort of thing.

So it's someone that's going to be very energetic and also

very positive and definitely love people.

When we first purchased the winery,

there were a couple of staff,

people that were there from the old regime that we kept

on and one of the salespeople was a little bit,

I'd have to say she was burnt out.

You know,

she was moody and she gets,

she was sort of impatient and tolerant.

And I read all of our reviews.

I think that's a very important to go to Yelp and

TripAdvisor and read,

get the feedback as much feedback as you.

And a couple of times people were mentioning that.

So we talked to this employee and she decided that,

yes, maybe it wasn't the best thing for her.

She ended up leaving.

And actually it was a much better situation now,

but it is a job that requires a distinct personality type.

And it's definitely gonna have to be someone that's passionate about

getting to know people and having fun.

And at the same time,

not have too much fun.

You're responsible to Right.

And give biz listeners.

I want to point out what Jane's talking about here.

A couple of really interesting things to keep in mind when

you're interviewing people.

When you get to the point where you're hiring on,

or you've taken on a staff that was there before,

as Jane had,

you need to talk to everybody and make sure personality versus

experience. That's an interesting perspective.

And I think all of us for each of our individual

businesses needs to weight that,

but a very interesting perspective in terms of personality,

especially if you're working one-on-one with customers.

Secondly, your other point was making sure you're reading what customers

are saying.

You've got to tap into whether it's Yelp or Facebook or

TripAdvisor, wherever it is,

and make sure you're on top of what the reputation is.

That's building for you online.

And finally,

I think,

and I will pat you on the back Jane,

because a lot of people struggle if they find an employee

that she probably loved her job in the beginning,

but it just,

you know,

you start to burn out for one reason or another,

but you know,

taking care of those situations sooner versus later,

and you were saying too,

that she also needed to move on and she's in a

happier place and your much better off as well.

So taking action quickly,

if you're finding that you have an employee that maybe has

just run his or her time with the business.

Yeah. It's true.

And actually my husband he's really good at handling that cause

I do not like conflict.

I'm a salesperson at heart.

So did you push it off on him?

He got,

he got to have the conversation probably Kiko.

Yeah, he did.

I mean,

I followed up,

but he is so skilled at that.

And I guess having been a veterinarian and having to tell

people bad news a lot,

but then I kind of follow up with her and we

did it provide that compassion.

And you know,

she was a dedicated employee.

I offered her other opportunities within the winery that she'd be

good at,

but she just decided that she needed to move on and

do something.

She's actually one of our best customers.

Now she comes once a year and buys a couple of

thousand dollars worth of wine.

She loves the wine.

And so it's kind of funny how it all worked Out.

You clearly handled the situation properly.

I mean,

just because someone is no longer going to work with you

anymore doesn't mean that it has to be cutting the ties

and a bad scene at all.

Exactly. Yeah.

Is there a promotion or an event that you could share

with our listeners of something that you might have done that

helped move the needle in terms of sales?

Yeah. And this isn't anything brand new,

but it somewhat is new to the area where our winery's

located and that is we established a wine club and what

we find is people really want to feel a sense of

community. We would just leave out a book for people to

sign up,

just to get on our email list.

And almost everyone that visited the winery wanted to be on

our email list just to get information.

And the thing about wine clubs is it's basically helps sustain

you through the months when you're not as busy.

And that's going to be November through April.

We don't have as many customers coming in.

It's definitely a downtime.

You know,

what do we do to keep our,

our staff busy?

What can we do to keep the revenue flowing?

And the wine club has been tremendous.

We do a mailing just twice a year and people can

either have the mine shipped to their home or we'll have

pickup parties.

We call them at the winery where they can come and

pick up their wine club shipment.

And then I have some snacks out there,

maybe some music,

that sort of thing.

It's brought in a huge stream of revenue for us that

was so easily implemented.

Well, you're talking to people who already love your product.

They do,

But a lot of times too,

it's they just want to be part of the winery.

They want to come by our staff.

They remember faces,

they'll greet them.

They'll come have a glass of wine on a Sunday afternoon,

sit outside,

hang out.

And that's what we're looking for.

You know?

And that's what sets us apart,

maybe from some of the other wineries,

because we are smaller.

We're just,

we're much more connected to these customers.

So that's been a terrific thing.

And I think people are really seeking that nowadays.

They want to find a community somehow.

And if you can provide that in some way to your

customers, I think you'll get an edge over some of the

other stores.

And it's so easy nowadays with database and social media and

all of that too.

So no excuse not to.

Sure. And it also makes your customers feel special.

They get to be included in this group.

And then do you offer them any product discounts?

Yes. Oh yeah,

we definitely do.

There's the incentives,

we offer discounts depending on how many bottles of wine goes

with their shipment,

we call it or pickup.

And then also we built a private members' lounge.

We renovated an area upstairs,

so people can go and hang out.

We've got leather couches there and sort of a rustic farmhouse

look. And so when it gets really busy in the tasting

room, the members can go to a separate area and have

a quiet glass of wine or chat with some of the

staff, that sort of thing.

Wow. That's really special.

You know,

it makes people want to be loyal to you and again,

makes them feel so good that they're being identified as kind

of a priority because they have supported you.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah. And then they bring their friends.

We also offer free tastings depending on the membership level we'll

offer, you know,

you can bring two of friends along for free or for,

for tastes and that sort of thing.

So it introduces new people too.

Yeah. It introduces new people and it creates loyalty.

People are going to stick with you,

you know,

it all goes back to what you were talking about before

the relationships.

Right. Right.

So think about that gift biz listeners.

What are you doing for your business?

Do you have a special community that you've created that helps

people be loyal to your business and things that you're giving

something special back to them in return?

So what Jane has made and I just wanted like get

in my car and drive out there right now.

It's beautiful right now with the leaves Changing and all,

as we're doing this interview,

everybody, it's just the beginning of October and you were saying

it's harvest season.

So I think after you jump off this call,

you said,

you're going to be driving out there right now.

So lots going on a lot of activity there right now.

Yeah. And it's beautiful with the leaves changing and you can

smell the grapes because there are a lot of Concord grapes

in the area too.

It smells like Welch's spectate,

jelly everywhere.

So Jane,

we're going to move into the reflection section.

Now this is a look at you and what's helped you

with your success all along the way with your career.

What's one natural trait that you have that you think has

helped you to succeed.

Well, I have an intense curiosity about people and maybe even

their businesses.

That's something that's always driven me.

So I really am very interested.

I think it's authentically interested in getting to know people.

I inherited those traits from my dad.

He was a salesman too.

And I think that comes across and I'm also very empathetic.

I'm able to put myself in those people's shoes and try

to find a solution to whatever they may need.

Now that work more obviously in the corporate world.

But even to some extent in the winery and the tasting

room, we get a lot of people that are never really

had any wine before.

They're sweet wine drinkers.

And I want to introduce them to dry wine,

to finer wines,

but you don't want to intimidate them or insult them in

any way.

So you just kind of,

you have to kind of feel them out and get them

to try some different things.

And they remember you for that.

So Sure.

Cause you're really changing the tasting experience based on who they

are and what they've created.

Right, exactly.

So that,

I think that's,

what's really been my thing.

And also I was able to identify pretty early on in

my career.

That management is not my thing.

I like being a sales person.

I like going out on my own.

I like having control of the situation.

I realized that.

And so I've always found people to compliment that.

Like I was saying with my husband,

he's a great manager.

So, you know,

he handles certain things better than I do.

And so I think it's able being able to identify your

strengths to,

you know,

recognizing them.

And so I've been able to do that well,

And that's a good point to play to your strengths.

So many people,

if they know,

let's say in your example,

that you don't really feel like you either have the manager

skills or even want to gravitate to that.

So many people then will take classes to perfect themselves in

a skill that they're lacking versus going with the natural flow

of who you are as a person and just sticking with

what naturally comes to you and you can advance so much

faster. And this is something that I've learned along the way,

too. You advance so much faster.

If you just take advantage of your natural traits versus your

own natural traits versus trying to build up what are less

than natural for you because not everyone can Excel in everything.

Of course That is so true because everyone feels like I've

got to learn how to be a better manager.

And you know,

I struggled with that for years.

It just wasn't in my makeup.

I try to lead by showing I try to set a

good example and that's the way I manage things.

Really great point.

All right.

And so Jane,

what tool do you use regularly to help you keep productive

or else help you keep your balance,

your life balance?

Technically Speaking,

I love Google calendar and I love the Google drive because

I'm in different places all the time.

I'm in Chicago,

I'm in Michigan,

I'm traveling,

whatever. And I like being able to access all that information

and share calendars,

setting up group appointments at the winery,

that sort of stuff with our staff.

So we're all on the same page.

And How long have you been using that platform?

Probably Like three years now.

When we first started,

we like can written in a notebook and then I'd have

to call my tasting room managers.

Like what's on the books for this.

And I'm like,

this is ridiculous to me.

So yeah,

we got into that.

And then my college degree was actually in art graphic design

and painting.

And for 25 years I did nothing or almost 30 years,

nothing with it.

And now I'm finding that it's really important that I get

back to that.

So I'm enjoying painting again.

I've done yoga for 30 years.

I just feel like in order to have that freedom and

creativity in your life to just to get a better perspective,

Steve jobs always talked about how we do walking meditation.

And I never really realized it until I read his book,

but that's kind of what I do too.

I'll go on long walks and just reflect on things and

I'll go through stuff in my head and it's just sort

of a good way to sort things out.

I find.

So Again is,

it's not all about the wine.

That'd be about some other things as well.

I drink too much wine.

Yeah. Wine everywhere I go.

I have to have one.

I have to try it.

That's great too.

But yeah,

you got to definitely keep tabs on that.

Yeah. What book have you read lately that you think our

listeners would find value in A lot of the Malcolm Gladwell

books? His latest outliers is interesting.

And I know that you've talked about that on other podcasts.

Back when I worked in advertising sales,

a lot of times we would read those books to help

educate ourselves.

But one book that I find is really,

it's very practical and it's fantastic for service is Zingerman's guide

to giving great service.

And Zingerman's is a deli in Ann Arbor,

Michigan. And it hasn't been known for years for its incredible

service. And they've been very successful in branched out to catalog

work. They sell stuff nationally.

Now internationally,

even through their catalogs,

the fellow that started is actually sort of a motivational speaker

or a speaker that goes around and helps train people on

giving great service.

Someone suggested this book to me when I first bought the

winery because I was kind of struggling with like,

I knew what to do cause intrinsically I know how to

provide great service,

but how do I train others?

Like practically,

what do I do?

And this book offers step-by-step advice on how to train your

staff. And in retail situations like ours,

it's so critical.

One thing he talks about is the ten second rule.

And this is so true when someone walks in the door,

no matter how busy you are,

whatever you look up and you establish eye contact with them,

you nod your head.

You grieve,

you say just a second,

whatever, but you don't let anyone walk in and not provide

that greeting within 10 seconds.

It's critical that you let people know that they're welcome when

they come in the door.

And I especially find that in the winery,

it's true because people sometimes are intimidated.

They don't know what it's all about.

Right? Cause that way you can at least make them feel

a little bit included.

Even if you're in the middle of something,

you've acknowledged their presence.

Exactly. Man.

How many times have you gone in a store and maybe

someone's not looking at you,

they're on their cell phone or texting.

It's a horrible feeling when that happens,

you know,

and all I can think is boy,

I wish I could talk to their manager or the owner.

They would die if they knew what was going on right

now. Yeah.

Or, you know,

Someone then feels inferior because if you're paying attention only to

the people that you let's say,

you're serving wine too.

And don't even acknowledge them.

It's like,

well, what am I,

I mean,

I've walked in here too.

Things like that.

And also about how to hire good people.

Yeah. Sounds like a great book.

Oh, sorry.

It's so good.

It really is.

And it's a great deli too.

If you ever get over to Ann Arbor,

Michigan, Well,

there you go.

A little plug for them,

right? Yeah.

Well, I happened to be there.

We over in Niagara falls and we drove back through Detroit

area and I said,

you know what?

I'm going to stop in Ann Arbor and go to singer

mins and test and see how their services lately and sure

enough, they were fantastic.

So. Well,

Good to hear that they're following their own advice then.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well gift biz listeners,

just as you're listening to the podcast today,

you can also listen to audio books with ease.

I've teamed up with audible for you to get an audio

book. Just like the one Jane is recommending for free.

All you need to do is go to gift biz,

book.com and make a selection.

That's gift biz,

book.com. All right,

Jane, I'm sad to say that our time is beginning to

wind down.

We've arrived at the dare to dream question.

I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

This is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable Heights

that you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What is inside?

Well, I have to say more time.

It's not the most original thing,

but there's so many things I still want to do.

And I really want to travel the world.

I want to explore,

I really want to do something to improve the world.

Somehow. I know making wine and selling it something that's good,

but I've always volunteered.

And somehow in my next iteration,

I really want to do something to provide or service to

people or animals in need.

So my husband and I talk about that this a little

bit further down the road,

obviously. Well,

it sounds like you've targeted into a category.

Yeah, Yeah,

yeah, yeah,

exactly. Yeah.

So you just keep your mind open and,

you know,

see what presents itself as you move on,

who knew that you were going to have a winery 20

years ago.

Exactly. Yeah.

I kind of roll with it and see what happens.

But I feel like if you follow your passions,

it's gonna to,

you really love what you're doing.

It's going to be a success,

but there's also that part you feel like you really need

to give back.

You know,

it's really important somehow.

I want to work towards that in a way too.

Yes, I agree.

So how can our listeners get in touch with you at

the winery or also at the home that you rent out?

I have a website which is Hickory Creek winery.com.

And you can get all kinds of information on the website

as well as link to our VRB.

Oh, it's HomeAway VRVO I don't know if everyone is familiar

with that,

but that's a vacation rental by owner.

If they call it home rental site and get even more

details there.

And the winery is in Southwest Michigan.

We're about an hour and a half from Chicago,

so right around the lake.

And we also are on Facebook and we're on Twitter.

You know,

we're open daily right now in the winter time though,

we do cut back our hours just because a lot of

people don't want to travel and all that snow.

So Well,

it's a beautiful time to visit with the leaves changing colors.

It's a nice drive.

If any of you are located in the Midwest and want

to get out and do something a little bit different.

And if you didn't catch all of the contact information,

you know,

you can jump over to Jane's show notes,

page on a gift biz,

unwrapped.com. There we'll have some of the detail of the conversation

we've had as well as all the detail of how you

can contact her.

Thank you so much,

Jane, for the valuable gift of sharing your journey.

It's such an exciting moment that you're in because your winery

is still so new and developing.

May your candle always burn bright?

Oh, well thank you very much.

Yeah, I really appreciate it.

Learn how to work smarter while developing and growing your business.

Download our guide called 25 tools to enhance your business and

life. It's our gift to you and available at gift biz,

unwrap.com/tools. Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for

the next episode.

Would you like to be on the show or do you

know someone who can provide valuable insight from their experiences?

If so,

we'd love to hear from you.

All you need to do is submit a form for consideration.

You can access the form@giftbizonramped.com

forward slash yes.

That's gift biz on wrap.com

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