300 – How to Get 100,000 Qualified Facebook Fans with David Emmons of Artist Marketing Formula

Gift biz unwrapped episode 300.

I don't market to the 99% I market to the 1%

or the 2% that are my people.

Attention. Gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights circle the date January 21st,

10 days from now.

I'm not selling anything,

but there is something major and very special waiting for you

January 21st.

I know,

I know I am keeping you in suspense.

If you want a precursor,

follow me over on Instagram at gift biz on unwrapped.

And that's all I'm saying for now.

So moving on hi and welcome to podcast episode 300.

I can't even believe it,

but I'm circling into my sixth year of podcasting.

Seriously time flies.

It feels like just a little bit ago that I was

doing the very first episode.

But over this time,

the podcast has offered me the opportunity to meet and become

friends with some amazing people from fellow handmade makers at all

levels of business development,

to quality service providers who have shared with us how to

make our businesses stronger.

And most importantly,

you, I mean,

seriously, podcasting takes so much time and effort.

And if it wasn't for you listening,

leaving reviews or telling me through emails and in person how

much this show has helped you.

Well, let's just say that's what kept me going when I

had bad days.

And you know,

we all have some of those.

So episode 300,

I'm recognizing this as a joint celebration for all of us

today. Isn't it interesting how large numbers peak our attention and

draw us in?

Well, I have another ginormous number for you.

97,000. That's how many people are following today's guests,

Facebook business page for his handmade product.

This is such a valuable episode because David is a business

owner who in real time,

meaning to day is seeing these results.

Now let's be clear and take this even deeper.

These are not just 97,000

people who he happened to get to like his page somewhere.

The way these are 97,000

people who are hyper-targeted and specifically his customer.

It's like if a number could have a higher worth than

another number,

David's followers are all true jams.

It's evidenced by how so easily they convert into sales.

Are you ready to hear how he does this Today?

I am so excited to introduce you to David Emmons.

He is the owner of artists' marketing formula,

a company that supports artists and other small specialty business owners.

David spent years going to art fairs,

selling his copper and stained glass sculptures.

That is up until a few years ago when he researched

how to successfully and consistently sell his work online,

he now teaches others to do the same.

He shows them how to utilize the power of the internet

and social media marketing to sell online and also set up

a sustainable online future.

David, welcome to the gift Ms.

Unwrapped podcast.

Well, thank you,

Sue. Thank you for having me.

I really appreciate it.

Love your podcast by the way.

Oh, thank you so much.

And I am really,

really excited to get into the conversation we're going to have

today, but I'm one who sticks with tradition and I'd like

to talk with you a little bit about your personal motivational

candle. So what we do here is we just get a

little bit of a different feel for who you are,

David, by you creating a candle that would resonate with you.

So motivational candle by color and quote,

what would that look like for you?

The color would be teal.

Well, teal reminds me of tropical water and tropical water just

puts my mind at ease.

Just one of those things.

It's always been.

I closed my eyes and I see a white Sandy beach,

teal colored water,

and all those right in the world.

Love it.

Well, okay.

So if you were jumping on an airplane right now,

what beach is that gonna be?

That would be Fiji.

Okay. I like it Ben yet,

but, well,

listen, you know,

we're in January now and that's usually the time when people

are starting to think about,

I want to get to some warm weather,

especially if they're in a snowy location.

So even if we can't go yet,

we can think about it.

So Teal's perfect.

Perfect for right now.

Okay. And how about a quote?

Well, I have a quote on my wall right here in

my office.

It says if you can't fly,

run, and if you can't run walk,

and if you can't walk,

crawl, but keep moving forward.

And I believe that's Martin Luther King.

So many people throughout history have accomplished so much just through

sheer persistence.

And it's just a beautiful thing.

It's such a beautiful image and there's just so many stories

that reinforce that throughout history.

I'm just always inspired by stories where people have so much

going against them.

And yet they still through persistence and determination,

accomplished amazing things.

Things you'd never think that they could accomplish too.

I know it's mind boggling.

I love stories like that.

I love sharing stories like that with my daughters,

With our audience here.

It's so easy to put obstacles in front of ourselves like,

Oh, I'm still working a full-time job.

So how could I ever start a business for myself?

Or someone is physically inhibited in one reason or another and

has to be home.

So how could they ever possibly start a business,

even though what they're making is beautiful.

Like we create our own obstacles.

So often I love this quote because to me it's saying,

take what you have and make it work for you because

it can,

That's absolutely right.

And you can always find someone on planet earth,

who's in a worse position than you are and they're moving

forward. Yeah,

I agree.

Absolutely. The old is out there.

I love how we've started this already.

This is fabulous.

Take us back a little bit.

I know that your journey has evolved over time as all

of ours do of course,

but share with us a little bit what your product is,

how you got started with it and we'll then we'll go

from there.

Excellent. Well,

I call what I'm create hanging water gardens.

So I'm working with copper and stained glass and the sculptures,

if you will hold a vase of water and we grow

plants out of them.

So it's a beautiful thing that our customers will hang them

in windows and the growing live plants.

So it's got life in it.

It's got water,

it's got color.

It's, it's been a really neat business to have just because

of the people we encounter they're into plants,

which means they're into life.

They're into growing things.

It's just been a lot of fun.

So my wife and I have been making them for over

35 years now,

I met my wife doing Joe's.

I was making bird feeders at the time.

I was a woodworker by trade.

And so I started doing shows,

making bird feeders.

I met my wife.

She was making similar to what we make now,

but kind of a smaller scale version of what we make

now and our more basic version of what we make now.

And so we met other show.

She was actually having trouble putting her Katie canopy up and

asked for my assistance and things developed from there.

And so we got married a couple of years later and

kind of combined our businesses.

And then we decided to really go all in with our

garden related hanging water gardens.

That ended up being the direction for the business,

which was just a lot of fun to start working together

on something.

Sure. Do you ever talk about what if she never asked

for your help?

It's so funny all the time.

And the only reason asked she had met my dad,

my dad used to do shows with me and she had

met my dad at a show.

And so she recognized the bird feeder.

She didn't recognize me.

She was like,

Oh, I know that must be his son.

And so she went over and asked for help because she

knew my dad.

It was funny because the first thought I had was I

don't have time to help someone.

I'm trying to get this booth,

built the show,

starting in an hour.

And it's A good thing.

You were receptive,

But you had a pretty smile.

Oh, so she caught your eyes.

So it was okay if she interrupted you,

that's good Right away,

drop everything in the health.

So this is another advantage of going to shows and you

never know who you're going to run into.

Exactly. Oh,

you never know who you're going to be.

That's exactly right.

You never know who,

You know,

if you're like me,

I'm pretty sure you are.

But that is part of the fun is it's not just

the people who are going to come as attendees.

It's all the other exhibitors because people are just so amazing.

It is.

It's such a culture in and of itself.

And it's been wonderful over the years,

35 years doing shows and I've met so many wonderful people

and traveled to so many wonderful places.

You know,

it's funny,

a lot of us can tell stories about the bad shows

or the weather crazy events,

but then there's also so many good times and so many

good relationships and interesting things that have happened.

It's a wonderful way of life.

And there's not a lot of professions that are like that.

I agree.

And it's a different lifestyle and a fabulous lifestyle also,

but you have to be into it.

I mean,

it's not for everybody that is for sure.

Right. So first off,

give his listeners,

I am going to put in the show notes,

a link so that you can see David's product because the

colors are so vibrant and beautiful.

You just have to take a peek at them.

For sure.

So jump over to the show notes,

you'll see a link.

You've got to take a look at the products.

So you were doing 30 shows a year,

approximately? Yes.

And I live in Vermont.

So I would go as far West,

as Minnesota and even did a flower show every year in

Madison, Wisconsin in February.

So I would drive from Vermont to Madison,

Wisconsin for a three day,

just a short little show in Madison,

but yeah,

about 35 years.

And I guess,

you know,

as you just mentioned shows aren't for everyone and not necessarily

forever. And so I started seeing a few years ago with

the writing on the wall that I don't want to do

shows forever.

There is a point in time where I at least want

to phase out the ones that are questionable.

That was always kind of my goals.

Like there are shows we love to do.

There are shows that are kind of mediocre.

There are shows that are all,

you know,

every year it rains or every year this happens.

And so my plan was,

I'm going to start looking at trying to phase some of

these shows out and if I'm going to do that,

what's going to take up the income Slack.

And obviously that was online.

So that was really the thing that started pushing in the

online direction was that is something that is viable.

It's obviously here to stay and I shouldn't say it's viable.

I knew it could be viable.

It was trying to figure out if that was going to

be the case.

And so I started looking at winding the shows down probably

about seven years ago and start looking at this online world.

How do you make that work?

Okay. Do you do any shows now at all?

I actually,

I did one this year.

I would say,

I didn't want,

I went to one.

It was right when COVID hit,

it was in March.

It was the Boston flower show.

It was actually going to be my last show and got

four days into it or three days into this show and

they shut it down.

Oh yeah.

So you really got a little bit of a show all

the way at the end to the very last minute.

It was so weird.

I said to my wife,

we're going to go out with a bang.

And we went out with a bust because you've got all

the expense,

all the set up and everything,

you put everything into the front end of it.

And the show they opened for two days,

but then they shut down before the weekend and the traffic

was not really there.

So it was just absolute bust.

Sorry to hear that.

But nobody knew this was coming.

I want to get into the online for sure.

Really quick,

but I am so curious.

Well, assuming we can this year,

Hey, assuming we can,

I have three or four shows that I really liked doing.

And so I probably will do those just because they're profitable.

They're fun.

They're not a nightmare to set up or tear down.

So yes,

I probably will.

You still get that shoulder to shoulder with the vendors and

attendees, you still get that experience just not every single weekend,

almost like you were doing before.

Exactly. Yeah.

And if you think about it,

that really puts you in a position of enjoying it more.

If you think about it,

I don't really have to do this show,

but I want to do this show.

And so,

you know what I mean?

Maybe that's the money to go to Fiji.

Oh, there you go.

There you go.

I really think that is going to be the future because

I think it made us look at everything a little bit

differently. And I think virtual shows will be here to stay.

There'll be a mixture now.

And in a way,

for those of us who do enjoy selling online and virtual

shows, all of that,

people who never thought they'd ever use zoom or even know

what that was besides just making text bigger on your phone

right now,

they're comfortable with it.

So that just feeds into the opportunities that online events or

other types of online types of marketing give us because people

are more comfortable now.

And that's the critical factor before I started making the move

to online for years,

I thought,

you know,

people are so uncomfortable with shopping online.

How long has that ever going to take?

Will there ever be that tipping point where it's just second

nature. And obviously we reached that tipping point years ago.

And so there's always that comfort factor.

There's always,

when does it go from just early adopters to everyone is

doing it.

And that happens with all of these things have changed and

COVID really threw this into hyper speed.

I mean,

people are doing things online that they're pretty much forced to

do. And so that really has opened up a lot of

opportunities. And if you know how to use them and work

them together,

I think the vital thing for specialty small business owners,

I call them whether you're a craftsperson,

small bakery,

a small brand,

whatever it is,

the opportunities online are just amazing when you know how to

kind of work a couple of things together.

So maybe like what I'm thinking about as I'm saying,

this is be talking about the virtual show.

Well, virtual show works wonderfully and then it works even better

when maybe you understand Facebook a little bit and you do

a Facebook alive that drives traffic to a virtual show.

So now you're using two things.

I've got a virtual show where I'm an attendee or I'm

a vendor.

And I understand that there's some power in my Facebook page.

So I'm going to do a Facebook live.

I'm going to drive traffic.

Maybe I've even have an email list.

I'm going to do an email blast and a Facebook live.

I'm going to combine those to drive the traffic to the

virtual show.

And now all of a sudden this is really successful.

Yes. You start understanding how to use these tools together.

That's a lot of what I've learned over the years.

And it's a lot of what I teach is strategy.

How do you build out strategy from understanding the different parts

of the internet?

And then also a big part of this Sue is understanding

humans. And that's what you get from 35 years on the

show circuit,

because you bump into a lot of humans,

a lot of people,

and you start understanding that fan artist relationship,

and you start understanding why people buy,

why people collect,

why people come back to you,

why people connect with your smile or your personality,

and you can't lose that when you come online.

Most people do.

There's this one,

The weird thing about going online and becoming a marketer only

I have to Mark and I have to learn how to

market my work.

I have to learn how to market myself in this word,

marketer, Screws with our heads,

you know,

and all of a sudden you're a marketer and you've got

a different voice and you sound different and you're not the

person you are in your booth.

I agree with you.

Yes. I mean the person who is in the booth,

that's the person your fans connect with.

And when you can remember that and bring that online and

then start using some of these powerful tools,

what the internet really is,

is just an amazing tool.

And when you understand it's such a broad thing,

the Internet's huge,

and there's lots of tools on the internet.

When you understand there are a couple of tools that work

incredibly well.

And if I focus on those and use those to their

maximum capacity,

and I bring my personality and my real world,

understanding of human relationship to those tools,

well now you've got this amazing combination and that's when everything

explodes. I agree with you.

And I want to go back to something you said a

couple minutes ago,

which is understanding humans.

I would also suggest that it's also understanding your humans.

In other words,

who the people are,

who gravitate to your product,

who likes what you stand for and what you're all about.

And that also helps you as you're going online,

because you want to,

like you were saying,

just be the same person you weren't at your booth.

When you were doing live shows,

you're just doing it online.

And you're looking at a camera and you just have to

remember, there are people behind that lens who are watching you

and you just act the same.

Exactly. It's so important.

I did a Facebook live in my shop the other day,

and I took my phone and I had one of my

hanging water gardens in a window.

Actually, I had a bunch of plants.

It was surrounded by plants or plants everywhere,

hanging water gardens everywhere.

The sun's blasting through the window.

The color was amazing.

And I took the phone and I put it right up

to a vase that had glass beads in it.

Then they were tilled by the way.

And they were so lit up and it was just beautiful.

I started the live like that.

And so you're in the water,

you're in the glass,

you're in the sunlight.

And then you see the roots of the plant.

And then I kind of back out a little bit and

you'll see some of the plants.

And I did that because I understand my fans,

my fans love that.

They love the color.

They love the plants.

They'd love the life.

They love to see the roots growing.

They understand just that whole propagating plant thing.

And so I started the Facebook live like that,

and it was a huge hit.

And it goes to the point that you just made that

when you understand your fans,

you understand why people connect with you and connect with your

brand or what you're creating.

And you bring that online.

It's just such a home run.

I like so much that you just said this story,

because it gives a demonstration perfectly of understanding what they like.

And so what you did just visually,

I don't think we ever think about that in terms of

when we go on live,

sometimes we show our product,

we tell a story,

whatever, but the visual aspect that you're talking about in terms

of what it's going to look like to grab their attention

first, and then as you zoom out and it's something that

I haven't really considered as much as possibly I should either.

That was really helpful.

It's a great example.

So I teach my students all the time.

I say to them,

when you're using video,

video is the most powerful thing you can do online.

And when you're using video,

the very front end of your video has to be a

hook. And in marketing,

if you'll let your head get in the wrong space,

you got to think marketing,

you got to think hook.

You're going to think salesy.

And that's not what it is.

What I just described was an amazing hook.

A hook has to just get somebody to stop scrolling and

it has to be relevant.

I mean,

you can light a book on fire and that's a hook,

but if it's not relevant to what you're doing,

it doesn't make any sense.

And as you described your audience,

like if you did that,

that would be such a disconnect.

Exactly. That's exactly right.

Okay. I need you to help me with something.

This goes along the line with what we're talking about here.

One of the things that I know always happens,

I mean,

we're selling products so way different than selling services,

but what do you say to the person who,

the only thing they're showing online is just,

here's my product.

Here's my price,

buy it.

Here's my product.

Here's the price,

buy it.

We all know that doesn't work.

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That's the marketing that you've fallen into the marketing trap,

and you're just totally missing the human connection.

And so one of the things that's so important to remember

when you're talking to your customers is in a lot of

artists get this wrong.

And I don't know why,

but what they miss is it's about your customer.

You have to be talking to your customer about,

and the best way to understand what I'm about to say

is if you could just read all of your customer reviews,

every customer testimonial you ever received,

every review about your work you ever received from a customer.

If you read those,

you'll start to digest the types of things that you really

need to talk about and show.

And so for me,

my customers talk about how my hanging water gardens and make

them smile and they bring joy to their lives.

So I'm always talking about the joy that they'll bring to

your life.

I always talk about what's in it for them.

So to speak,

as opposed to,

I just made a limited edition this week and I'm using

this color stained glass,

and I have seven of these and they're $97 each click

here. That's like marketing.

What I would do instead would be,

I found some amazing stained glass in the shop the other

day. And I don't know,

are you a person who loves red?

Do you have a lot of red in your home or

do you have a lot of teal in your home?

So I've got these two new designs.

I'm working with bread.

I'm working with teal.

I wanted to show those to you.

I only have a few,

but try and picture this in your window.

So see all of that language is about them and it

just happens to be in order to make this happen in

your window,

you've got to purchase one of my hanging Watergardens and then

that's going to happen.

But I'm going to talk to you about what it looks

like in your life.

So if you're a jeweler you're talking about is amethyst you're

colored. Do you love earrings that do this or necklaces that

do this?

Or if you're a painter and you talking about it,

do you have that wall in your home that you have

just been waiting for the perfect magnificent piece of work and

you've got to get into what's in it for them.

And when you do that,

that's the point?

That's the key.

Yeah. I mean,

as I was listening to your story,

when you said it at first,

here's what I'm making here.

The colors,

all of that,

my focus in my mind's eye is on the product and

it's beautiful.

Like I would have loved it anyway,

because the colors are so beautiful when the light comes through

and all that.

But then when you talked about it,

are you someone who likes these colors?

How would it look in a room then?

All of a sudden,

I'm not just in my mind's eye,

thinking about your product,

I've taken your product and I've integrated it into my life

and imagined it there.

That's it.

That's what we have to do as artists.

When you do that with your voice,

with your video,

with the images on your website,

with the images that you put on your Facebook page,

I'm a huge proponent of putting your work in room settings.

If it's painting to put them on walls,

if it's jewelry,

put it on models,

don't you show me your jewelry with a white bag.

You know,

we're so used to as artists Jurien for shows where it

was forbidden to put anything else in the picture,

except your product,

you know,

don't have any distractions.

That's not what you want to do online,

but what you want to do online,

you have to get people imaging it in their lives.

I mean,

if you think about the best way to understand this is

just Google.

Some really high-end magazines and look at the cover of every

high-end magazine.

And you will see a room filled with items that every

one of the items in that room has a higher perceived

value because of the other things in that room,

a vase of flowers on the mantle of a fireplace,

and there'll be a baby grand piano in the room and

a beautiful sofa and maybe a really cool rug and amazing

painting on the wall.

And now the vase of flowers at glass vase is worth

$87 and not $23 because of everything else in that room.

And so not only are you allowing the customer to perceive

it in their own home,

but you're also increasing the perceived value of your work so

important to do those things.

Yeah. So I'm also thinking like knitted throws laying over a

couch. Yes.

I interviewed somebody it's been a couple months ago back,

but she does crocheted hammock chairs.

And actually a lot of the people who buy her product

will take pictures of their chairs hanging and send it to

her. And then she can use that and her social media,

right. They'll tag her.

So it doesn't always have to be you doing it because

how many scenes do you have?

You can have your customers also help you with that.

That's exactly right.

So if we went over to your sites,

that's what we're going to see by way of example.

Right? Exactly.

And then I asked my customers to send in photos all

the time.

It's so cool to get them involved.

And they love doing that.

Those are the kinds of conversations while you're at your booth.

The conversations you have with your customers are always buy,

bought this one last year.

And I hung it in this window.

If you're a Juul,

or I bought this necklace from you last year,

I wore it to this event and everyone loved it.

Everyone wanted it.

Those are the kinds of conversations.

When you can bring those same conversations and those same images

to the online world,

you're doing the same thing.

Those are real human interactions.

People tell you those stories because they mean something to them.

And so you've got to be able to bring that same

thing online.

And when you do,

that's what connects with other humans who are not yet your

customers. Okay.

And they hear those stories.

They see those things.

When people talk about social proof,

social proof is not just simply,

okay. A million people like my page,

social proof are actually the sentences and the words and the

emotion that go into the things people are saying about you

and about their connection with you.

And that's why I always say this to artists,

artists, and specialty,

small business owners have we're in a very unique position to

thrive, massively thrive online because we,

by nature,

we connect with our customers.

There are very few brands that do that.

Small brands are the only ones out there.

And the other thing that's interesting about small brands and artists

is that the platforms,

the social media platforms were built to give the users of

the platforms,

what they want and what are the users of platforms like

Facebook, what the users want to interact with the people they

want to interact with.

And typically that's friends,

families, and then small brands like artists.

And so the platform is built to give you more reach

than Nike.

The platform is built to give you more reach than political

conversations. The platform is built to give friends and family interactions

and connections that they want to have.

It's just so perfect for artists.

When you understand it,

when you start to understand what are the algorithms looking for?

What is the AI looking for when you understand that and

give it what it's looking for,

then that's where your reach explodes.

Your fan page explodes in your sales and your traffic to

your website.

Explode. Yeah.

You know,

I couldn't agree with you more.

And I'm just thinking before online,

when we were in-person,

cause we had customers coming into our shops and we had

people coming to craft,

shows our customers become our friends because you see them repetitively.

They come back and they say,

hi, they buy from you.

Usually there's a conversation.

There's some type of personal interaction.

Even if you're just ringing a customer,

begging their product,

thanking them for supporting you and wishing them a good day.

You're talking to a person it's a relationship.

And when we ended up doing more online,

somehow that's where the jump went from.

Still having a relationship with people,

to all of a sudden being more like a big brand,

because we didn't have another example back then.

That's where I think the coldness or the impersonal things started

coming. It's so funny that that's kind of like instinctual.

It's like,

okay, well,

in fact,

when I talk to people about marketing online versus shows back

when I was doing shows and I was teaching other artists,

what I was doing,

how I was having the online success I was having,

they would constantly bump into that thing.

What about the face-to-face?

What about the personal?

What happened to me?

And it's amazing.

I did not expect this.

The relationships I have with my customers online far surpass anything

I ever had in 35 years of doing shows far surpass

5000%. And the reason for that is I see these people

every day,

every day online,

obviously not seeing them face-to-face unless I do some Facebook live,

but I'm seeing the profile pictures,

the writing me messages every day,

I'm writing them messages every day,

never at shows.

Did I see the same customer?

Rarely two days in a row.

If it was a five day show,

maybe I'd see.

So it was always year to year.

You go back to the show,

you see some of the people you saw last year.

You go back to this show.

Some of my collectors from this area,

they come out and see me at the show online.

I have people collecting my work and I talk to them

every week.

I talked to some people every day.

I have people that call me up on the phone because

we've talked so much on Facebook.

I just absolutely amazing.

And now that I know this,

I work it and let relationships develop moral.

I let them flourish,

but I never saw that coming.

But it's there.

It seems to me it's just a whole different lifestyle.

As a business owner,

then A hundred percent you're gathering Friends,

you're interacting with people it's comfortable.

And I would suggest that most of the people who are

listening. So you guys I'm talking to you,

it's just so much more comfortable than thinking you're having to

sell. Yes.

You're more sharing your product to what you're doing behind the

scenes to create the products,

how they're displayed whatever.

And you're making relationships.

And because of that,

people are starting to fall in love with you because they

like not only your product,

but who you are as a person.

And that's just being friendly.

That's not even selling.

That's exactly right.

And then the other beautiful thing is if you think about

when you're at a show,

you know,

only a certain amount of the people coming through the show

end up being,

I used the phrase,

your people.

So a certain amount of the crowd are your people.

You know,

maybe you ended up selling 1% of the attendance of a

show. So that means 99% of the attendance of a given

show. We're not your people.

Well, the cool thing you can do online when you start

understanding how to use the targeting tools of let's say Facebook

or Instagram is you can target the 1%.

So when I'm marketing online,

I tell people this all the time,

I don't market to the 99% I market to the 1%

or the 2% that are my people,

the tools,

that's the thing about the internet.

Not only is the internet,

just as big,

wonderful, super highway that gives you this amazing exposure.

When you start understanding how to get kind of Ninja with

your targeting,

with these free tools in the backend of Facebook,

you can get in front of some very,

very specific people.

And when you layer your targeting in the right way and

then start being strategic and then start using the AI to

your advantage.

So now every time you do a Facebook live,

or every time you tell a story about why you create

what you create,

it's not going out to just the masses of people that

show up at a show.

It's going out to that very small sliver of people that

stopped by your booth came in your booth were very interested

in what you were talking about,

but now you have thousands of them because the internet allows

you to reach.

I mean,

if you can reach the world,

obviously it's kind of like packing an auditorium with everyone is

like, okay,

I want to hear what you have to say.

I came because you're my person.

I'm a fan of you.

It's your crowd.

And now you're on stage.

There's no hecklers in the audience.

No, one's going to BU because these are your people.

And when you market like that,

it's just absolutely amazing.

I think you landed on something big because I think that's

exactly what we do.

We build Facebook pages.

I'm not even going to really say groups necessarily at this

point, but Instagram accounts,

Facebook pages.

And we are like,

we're going for that number of people.

Number of followers,

we're not necessarily targeting,

we're reaching a wide net and no wonder the fish don't

come in the net.

If they're not the right people.

Right? Yeah.

So many people will say to me,

Facebook doesn't work or Instagram doesn't work.

And I always say,

it's not that it doesn't work.

It's that you're not using it.

Right. So I always like to give our listeners a few

actionable pieces of direction after they've listened to a show.

So can we talk a little bit more about finding customers?

Cause I know this is one of your specialties is teaching

people online,

how to attract the right customers,

more of the same,

those people who are going to love.

You want your product,

give you testimonials,

send you pictures.

I mean your humans,

as we were saying before,

your people,

your people,

your humans.

So if you let's say I'm going to take a general,

broad stroke of people who are listening.

They've got their personal page.

Obviously they've got their business page up and you know,

they've asked friends and family to come to their page.

If they've been at events,

they've asked people to follow them.

Of course,

there's the like button.

They might've even run a few ads like my page,

that kind of thing.

But now what do you do to grow your account with

the right humans?

Best thing that you can is go into the back end

of your Facebook page.

Don't use the boost button,

use ads manager,

go into ads manager and allow yourself to at least spend

a dollar a day on a targeted campaign to your people.

And what I mean by two year people that you want

to do some really Ninja layered targeting.

And so you should spend a little time understanding what marketers

would call your customer avatar.

Who is that perfect customer?

What are they like?

What movies do they go to?

Where do they travel?

What kind of magazines do they read?

All of those things and just Google,

how to find my customer avatar.

And there's all kinds of worksheets on the internet.

So you can fill that out.

Once you understand who your people are,

start Googling,

Google, some more things like the top interior design magazines.

The top,

like for me,

I'll give you an example.

When I layer target my customers,

there's this strategy I like to use.

It's got a funny name.

It's called the bubble Watson strategy.

It's about a really old time golfer.

This strategy goes like this.

If you start targeting,

let's say you're selling golf products and you're targeting,

okay, everyone who likes tiger woods and everyone who likes the

national open or whatever you list the real typical golf things,

golf magazine.

And then you put a layer in there and you say,

okay, what I'm selling is really high end.

And it's really for the insane golf fan.

Anyone who knows who bubble Watson is,

is absolutely my customer.

Now for me,

I use the Chelsea flower show in England.

So the Chelsea flower show is a real famous flower show

in England.

Anyone who knows about the Chelsea flower show is absolutely my

customer. So I might target better homes and gardens.

I might target interior design magazines,

gardening interests,

but then I'll always put a filter of filtering targeting layer

of the Chelsea flower shop.

And so people have to qualify for each category.

And then I put so a dollar a day,

I'll put it the video ad out in front of them.

That's you want to make sure you tell people this,

you can win online when you put the right thing in

front of the right people.

And if you think about bringing it back to our show

careers, we don't just do any shows.

We do shows where we think we're going to to get

a high percentage of the right kind of people.

And we wouldn't just ask them,

show promoter to put our booth anywhere.

I want to be on a corner in a prominent location,

if I can.

And then I'm also going to build a beautiful booth.

So I'm trying to put the right thing in front of

the right people.

It's the same thing online.

So you have to find your people by layer targeting and

then you have to be very smart about what it is

you put in front of them.

So is it just a picture of a necklace?

You mean,

is it just a flat picture of a painting that you've

done? I can't tell if it's a note card or if

it's going to go over my sofa.

So you have to be really smart about what it is

putting in front of them.

Is it a video that starts with camera lens inside of

a glass of water and teal?

And then all of a sudden I start seeing plants.

Is that the right thing?

What is the right thing to put in front of your

people? And when you do that,

when you get those two things,

right, you'd Ninja layer,

your targeting,

and then you get really smart with the creative that you

put in front of them.

That's when your fan base is going to grow your going

to drive traffic to your website,

all these things will change and you'll get better and better

over time.

As you start just remembering that who are my people?

How do I layer that targeting?

So I know them in front of them,

what magazines do they read?

I was working with a Juul recently.

I was helping her with her targeting and she creates high-end

jewelry, Bohemian style.

So we're laying in retargeting accordingly.

So I'm targeting big brand names of high-end jewelry.

Then the next layer is fashion and design.

And then the next layer is Bohemian.

So all these different categories for Bohemian.

And then in my conversation with her,

she says to me,

anyone who listens to Janis Joplin is a customer of mine.

And so I said,

boom, that's your bubble,

right? And so there's the layer,

Janis Joplin and her brand exploded because she had everything else.

Right. And then she put the right thing in front of

them. She has an amazing video that has some really cool

B roll.

Somebody walking down the beach,

wearing one of her anklets in the sand and the surf.

It's just absolutely perfect.

So you put the right thing in front of the right

people and that's when Facebook works.

That's when Instagram works.

This makes so much sense to me.

I want to clarify one thing for everybody and you'll do

a check that I'm saying this right,

David. Okay.

Okay. So when you talk about layering,

your audience,

you're not layering all of these one on top of each

other, you're filtering down.

So they get the best people that are the closest match

that align with your customer.

So you're not picky.

And like in the back of Facebook,

you're not picking all these categories and adding and adding and

adding. So the number gets bigger.

You're subtracting because you don't want to spend that dollar a

day and be so broad reach.

You want to spend that dollar a day and put the

invitation in an individual person's hands who you know,

is That's exactly right.

And so it's always using the option where it says narrow

further, and it says also must match.

So there were a fan of this,

but they also must match this.

And they also must match this.

So what I do with my categories that I put similar

things, so maybe I'm going to put contemporary art,

modern art,

the metropolitan museum of art.

I might have a group of things that are similar.

Then my next category for painters or photographers would be interior

design. I want to be in front of people who are

reading high-end interior design magazines.

Now the reason I use magazines as an interest targeting category,

because you could just target interior design and other things like

that. But when a person has committed to a subscription to

a magazine,

or they like a magazine,

it says something a little bit more about them than just

the interest alone.

Another I like to use is luxury travel.

So if you use the luxury travel luxury,

wine tours,

luxury cruises,

as a targeting category,

it says something about the people who are interested in that

they spend money on luxury travel.

They spend money on a magazine subscription.

What we're trying to find is we're trying to find people

that not only like what we have,

but also through the interests that we choose,

we know they're spending money in,

they're actually purchasing these things.

And so,

again, it's being strategic with this targeting.

And when you do that,

right? Oh my gosh,

you're in front of the right.

People Makes so much sense.

I'm thinking another way you could dive deeper into your customer.

If you don't know them very well,

you have a customer list,

right? People who have purchased your product before,

right? Maybe in some of the emails you tell a story

about something that you're doing,

like, how do you spend your Sunday afternoons for me?

It's blah,

blah, blah,

blah, blah.

Then you interject a magazine.

You like,

and then say,

Hey, I'm wondering what kind of magazines you're into or how

do you spend your Sunday afternoon?

There's ways to capture the information over and above.

Just assuming you can ask your audience,

Facebook posts,

you could even say,

Hey, I'm looking for a new movie this weekend.

What are you guys watching?

Things like that.

Yeah. That's a great technique.

And I do that on my Facebook page.

That's important to ask your customers questions and it does a

lot. It helps you page again,

if you go back to,

what was the platform built for?

What's the algorithm looking for so that you can maximize what

happens with your business page?

The algorithm is looking for interaction.

The algorithm is looking to share things that other people obviously

want to see.

And so how does the algorithm know whether or not somebody

wants to see what you put on your page?

Well, it knows because of interaction and it doesn't really know

what the interaction is and understands the difference between a like

and someone typing and someone clicking the share button,

but it doesn't necessarily know what I'm typing.

And so if I can get my customers to talk to

me, and if I talk back with them,

the algorithm sees that there's back and forth going on on

my page and it starts spreading my page further.

And that's really important to remember.

And again,

that's just being strategic.

I know what the algorithm wants.

And so I'm going to ask questions in my posts.

I'm going to respond to my fans.

I'm going to get that back and forth going because not

only is it good for the human relations that's taking place,

but it's good for the algorithm receiving that information and doing

things with it.

Yes. I would go so far as to say,

schedule 15 minutes or a half an hour in your day

to go back and do that in your social media channels.

A hundred percent.

Absolutely. Don't just think,

Oh, well,

someone responded now or respond back.

But initiate those conversations too.

Yes. It's so easy to do that.

And what happens when you do that is all types of

doors. Start to open up,

you'll see little opportunities where you can ask someone to share

your page.

Oh, you love that.

Let me show you this.

Oh, wow.

That's cool.

Because I'm doing this this weekend.

There's all kinds of things that you'll stumble upon that are

going to be opportunities to have people go to your website

or have people share your page.

Absolutely agree with you.

Totally. Okay.

So once you've got some customers coming in,

like pretty much everybody who's in business already has some customers.

What about,

so with your hanging water gardens,

once they have one,

they have one.

Now you've mentioned that you have people who collect them,

but how do you build off your current customers either through

repeat sales or referral?

Well, the interesting thing about the internet,

one thing has happened that I didn't expect.

And that is the number of people who collect.

What I create has gone up 10 fold.

It's absolutely amazing.

And I think what's driving.

That is the constant presence I'm constantly showing up in their

newsfeed. It's kind of like being at a show,

but the show is every day,

let's say you had a show in the lobby of an

office building.

And every day that people are walking by your booth,

every single day,

the same people are walking by your booth into this office

building, you're going to end up selling more to the same

people. So there's that component.

The other component is the social proof.

When you do the right types of things on your Facebook

page, and I teach this in my course,

I really get into doing some things very strategically so that

you get the right kind of social proof on your page.

So people are constantly singing your praises and other people are

constantly seeing that.

And so it's like somebody went to your office and people

keep saying,

you've got to see this movie.

You got to see this movie.

This movie was amazing.

Oh my gosh.

Remember that part,

this part.

And so you're being barraged with this social proof.

And so that's another component of getting people to continually purchase

from you.

But then as far as finding new customers,

what I like to do beyond targeting is,

again, it's understanding how these algorithms work and understanding how the

AI works is I use the power of lookalike audiences in

the backend of Facebook.

And so I create custom audiences,

which is an amazingly powerful tool.

You can make a custom audience from several different sources,

a custom audience of website visitors,

a custom audience of just people who made purchases on your

website, a custom audience of all your Facebook fans,

a custom audience of everyone to watch a video that you

put out.

Or I like to do a thing where I make a

custom audience,

the very specific video,

but only the people who watched 50% or more.

And then the power of these customer needs is you can

ask the AI to make you look alike audiences.

Now the lookalike audiences at a 1% match,

which is the tightest match.

It's basically a cone audience.

A look alike audience of a custom audience will always be

2 million,

500,000 people in the U S so that's 2 million,

500,000 people,

or basically a clone audience of your custom audience,

whatever custom audience that was.

If it was everyone who has ever made a purchase on

your website in the last 12 months.

Now I have a 2 million,

500,000 person clone audience of those people.

And to understand the power of this,

you've got to understand what the AI does and what the

individual in the customer audience in order to determine who's going

to be in the clone audience.

And so if you think about that,

let's say 5,000

people in my custom audience.

It's like something the human brain could never even do.

I could never interest target in a way that would equal

what the AI is capable of creating for me.

So now I take this clone audience and I serve a

dollar a day ad to that audience,

The full audience,

no filtering of that audience,

Correct. I would go to the full eye and I might

do something.

I have kind of a Ninja strategy where I create a

certain video.

And it's a video designed to kind of weed out the

people who aren't my people and pull into people who are

my people.

And so this is going to be a video that might

be five minutes long,

and I'll serve a video ad to this clone audience,

this lookalike audience for a dollar a day.

And I might run it for a month or two,

and then I'll go in and I'll make a custom audience

of everyone who watched 50% of that video or more because

I know something about those people.

They raised their hand and said,

I love what you're showing me here.

This is really,

really cool.

So now I take that custom audience and I make a

look alike audience,

and I might do that one or two or three times.

And now I'm refining and refining and refining who's in these

giant lookalike audiences.

And when you do that,

it's so,

so powerful.

Yeah. I mean,

what I see is you've refined your audience down,

like you just said,

but they've also gotten to know you a deeper level,

a deeper level,

because everything that you're serving them out is one more touch

point where they get to know you in maybe a different

way, or they see a different product or they see you

in the workshop or whatever the video contents is.

So that level of trust is also building over time.

Exactly. That's the other beautiful thing about everything you do on

with Facebook advertising is everything is building your brand.

If you think about it in the old days,

there was never a way to quantify your ad expenditure the

billboard. Even today,

every billboard that's out there on a highway,

there's no way for a company to know the return on

that investment with online advertising,

things have kind of changed.

And all the online marketers are always looking at ROI.

They're always looking at return on investment.

If they have multiple ads running,

they will kill all the ads that are not giving them

an ROI.

And so there's instant return on your investment.

But the thing that a lot of marketers don't ever talk

about this,

and I think it's because most of them are young people.

The thing that you miss is even if you don't have

ROI on something,

you're getting brand exposure,

and that is so valuable.

So when you can get both and is the beauty of

when you understand Facebook advertising,

when you can get both,

and that's what happens with all of my ads,

I have this massive reach.

I have positive return on my investment always.

And I'm getting all this brand exposure basically for free.

So my brand is out there in a massive way.

And with an ad that's producing profit to the right people.

Oh my gosh,

I get so excited when I get to the point with

an artist where I can get them to see this.

Actually I was on the phone with one of my students

the other night,

she's actually from Chicago.

You probably know her.

She makes these beautiful handbags,

$1,400 bags.

And we were working on an ad together.

I was layering her targeting for her,

and we did some lookalike audiences and right out of the

gate, she called me the next day.

She spent $3 on an ad sold $1,800

worth of her bags,

her handbags off her website,

which is just remarkable.

But the cool thing was,

it was right out of the gate.

She was in front of the right people with the right.

It was a seven second video we used.

It was just,

everything was right about it.

And boom,

it happened.

And I was so excited for her because that's what I'm

talking about.

The power of these platforms is amazing.

When you just get a little strategic,

a little Ninja,

you've got to get a little bit below the surface.

One of the problems with Facebook is that at the surface

level, if you're going to use Facebook advertising or boost a

post at the surface level,

it feels like you're doing some smart things.

I'm targeting women between the ages of 35 and 65 who

like handbags.

And they live in the United States.

I'm going to put this picture out in front of them.

Okay. Where are the sales send those people to my website?

And it doesn't happen because it's surface level is just not

as powerful as going below the surface,

getting really smart with your targeting,

getting really smart with your creative,

really smart with the words you use in your ads.

And that's when it explodes.

And when I can get people to see that it's so

exciting because that's it that changes the whole game.

Your business is now sustainable.

Your business is now going to be profitable.

You can understand what you have to do for your next

ad. You can target a different audience.

You can make a different lookalike.

You can do anything you want to do at this point,

because now you understand why it works.

Would you say that some of the things that people are

doing where they're just putting up posts almost isn't even worth

it, we'll post it.

Sure. Okay.

Because posts are,

what I like to do with posts is I like to

use post as like my experiment,

because they don't cost me any money.

So I can put up a post.

I'm always strategic about what I'm doing.

So when I post something,

my intention is this might be an ad.

David, I might turn this into an ad.

So therefore I'm going to make sure I wrote the correct

things. I'm going to always make sure my website link is

in there because I don't want to go back and regret

what I wrote.

If I turn it into an ad and I can't edit

the copy.

So I do post things all the time,

looking for the thing,

really connected with my fans.

And then I turned it into an ad.

And so connected,

meaning people are liking it.

People are commenting on it.

People are sharing it.

Exactly. In fact,

I have an ad running right now.

That's been running for three years.

The same ad.

It's the exact same ad,

same exact same graph.

Everything about it.

It's the same,

except I target different audiences.

Beautiful thing about this.

Sue is first of all,

a lot of people think when you come to social media

and you come to marketing and online that you're going to

be sitting in front of a computer all day,

spending all this time,

all this energy,

that is just not the case.

When you start doing some things,

right? So if you can get ads to work,

and this is what I've done with my business,

as I've learned how to get ads to work,

and I've also learned how to blow up my fan base

and make it huge.

But because I have ads working,

I don't have to do so much on a daily basis

because my ads are doing all the heavy lifting.

And so this particular ad was I had asked customers to

send in some pictures and they sent him some pictures of

this specific design that I make with this really cool plant.

And the pictures that came in were really,

really cool.

And I noticed on this post,

Oh, my customers are sending these beautiful pictures,

wonderful comments.

The post just exploded.

So I turned it into an ad.

It's my best performing ad.

It's been an ad for three years.

There's over I think,

8,000 comments on it now.

And it's oodles and oodles of shares and reactions.

I mean,

it's through the roof,

the social proof on it is just through the roof,

which just makes it better and better and better as it

goes on.

And so I'll keep running that ad probably forever.

There's no reason not to.

And it's just absolutely amazing the business at a drive somewhere.

That's amazing.

Yeah. I never thought of ads being able to go that

long and still being able to produce When you're smart about

it. Most people post on social media kind of in real

time. And they think in real time and they're not strategic,

but that's what I teach in my course that I teach

people to think strategically,

okay, what could I do that could live forever?

Because it's general enough,

it's not date specific and I'm hitting the right touch points

or pain points or excitement points that if this works,

I can turn into an ad and it can be evergreen

for years.

And when you get those components,

right, and it's not hard to do,

it's just a couple of things.

And what you're really looking for is to encourage that engagement.

If you can get the engagement,

because again,

that's what the algorithm is looking for.

The algorithm says,

Holy cow,

everybody likes it.

People are not only typing words.

They're posting pictures,

they're sharing with their friends.

They're liking it.

It's got everything everything's happening to this.

And so the algorithm just says,

yep, everybody wants to see this.

This deserves to be viral.

And that's,

I guess one other thing I'll tell you here for your

listeners is there's two things that will determine the reach of

an ad.

So if you're in a backend ads manager and you're building

out an ad,

you'll see that there are projected reach numbers,

any campaign style.

And the budget is one thing that will determine the reach.

But the second and almost more important part is the engagement

level of the post or the ad.

And so what I teach my students to do is I

teach them how to get a $10 a day,

reach on a dollar a day budget.

And it's all about strategy.

When you build the right things into an ad,

you're going to get engagement through the roof.

And that engagement through the roof is going to spread that

ad. So it's not just budget it's budget plus engagement.

And so you can blow the numbers.

I usually surpass the high-end estimates that Facebook gives me for

reach. I usually blow past them because my engagement is always

through the roof.

Wow. And it's all based on making sure that the message

resonates with your audience.

You've got the right connection there,

the imagery,

the wording,

and having them in some way,

engaged with you.

Right. And you're in front of the right people.

So there's kind of three parts to it.

You're really Ninja about being in front of the right people.

You give them the right creative and then you do something

either in your video or your sales copy that causes them

to engage.

Because I could go in front of,

let's say the Chelsea flower show people with a beautiful video.

And they might all just click the like button or the

love button because they love it.

It's the right people to write creative,

but I didn't get them to type some words and I

didn't get them to share because I just gave them something

beautiful. And just the right people.

Now, if I say something in the video,

or I say something in my sales copy that gets them

to type some words and share it with their friends.

Now I've accomplished what I'm trying to accomplish.

And so it's those three components,

People creative,

and then getting them to engage.

Exactly. Perfect.

Wonderful. Oh my gosh,

David, this has been incredible.

I love how you approach this.

It makes a lot of sense.

I think there'll be some people who are going to be

like, okay,

that sounds great.

But going behind the where and doing what I know,

it's so funny because I'm not a tech guy.

And so when I came to the internet world kicking and

screaming, my daughter said,

you should try a Facebook advertising.

And I laughed at her.

I had 700 fans on my Facebook page.

I don't even know where they came from.

I just crossed over a hundred thousand four days ago.

And so I've got a hundred thousand.

And the coolest thing about the a hundred thousand is these

are very specific people.

These are not just a hundred thousand people would think what

I create is pretty.

So I say all that without tech skills.

And so I've taught myself a lot,

but I also learned a lot along the way that you

don't need most of what's out there.

I push more things off the table than I use.

And so going into the backend,

there are ways to easily find the tools that you want

to use,

stay away from all the other stuff and just get these

things working in your business.

You don't to do a lot of things.

You just have to do a few things very specifically.

I think we all can do it.

We get a mindset of ourselves that we can't,

but if you want someone to help you,

David, how would people get in touch with you?

Well, I've got a couple of ways.

I teach a free master class every week.

Okay. And you can get to that whatever class I'm going

to teach next,

by going to artists,

marketing, blueprint.com.

So artists' marketing blueprint is a registration page for my next

master class.

And then if you want to go and take a look

at my coaching website,

that is artist marketing,

formula.com. So artists' marketing formula will get you to my coaching

page and it will show you a lot of things and

you can actually get involved with me and work with me

and I can help you blow your business up or go

to my free masterclass and learn more about what we're talking

about today and get more excited because this stuff is so

exciting. I get so excited about it because of what it

can do for people's businesses and their lives.

And for me,

I was trying to weed down the shows so that I

didn't have to do so many.

And I could set up a sustainable future where I knew

I could count on the income coming in.

I mean,

it had to work.

If it wasn't going to work,

I had to stay with shows because shows work when you're

at the right shows.

And then the pandemic came along,

which I was not expecting.

I have been doing this for a number of years.

And so never saw that coming,

which really puts an emphasis on the urgency to get this

part of your business.

Right. But I get excited helping people see that this does

work. I never have run into anything that I can't show

someone how to sell it online.

I work with authors.

I work with chiropractors,

restaurant owners,

yoga instructors.

I work with an orphanage in India.

I'm actually helping them make a documentary right now,

finding donors for the orphanage and every single example.

It is so easy to find the right people and then

put the right thing in front of those people and bring

those people into your world.

It sounds like if you know the formula,

you can apply it to everything.

Absolutely. 100%.

Oh, I love this.

All right.

And while we're sharing links,

what's the link to your hanging gardens That is hanging water

gardens.com. Easy,

easy. Okay.

Perfect. David,

thank you so much.

This has been such great information.

So fun to talk to you.

I know that all of our listeners can just resonate with

you right away.

Like they can see something of themselves in what you've done

as you've progressed.

I really appreciate your generosity coming on the show today and

sharing with us,

everything that you know.

Well, I had a blast.

Sue. I love talking about this.

It's exciting.

I hope your listeners got a lot out of it.

Absolutely. We did take care.

Thank You,

Sue. Are you the one who's tried various tactics on Facebook

and just aren't seeing the results.

Well, here you go.

A proven strategy to grow your audience,

not just to have some nice social proof of a large

number of followers,

but real life people on the other end who want and

will buy your products.

It's a way to make this new year a real game

changer for your business growth.

And speaking of game changers,

remember to Mark your calendar for January 21st details.

Come coming soon for a preview.

Follow me over on Insta at gift biz on wrapped.

Then you'll be the first to know.

Thanks so much for spending time with me today.

If you'd like to show support for the podcast,

please leave a rating and review.

That means so much and helps the show get seen by

more makers to great way to pay it forward and now

be safe and well.

And I'll see you next week on the gift biz unwrapped

pocket. I want to make sure you're familiar with my free

Facebook group called gift is breeze.

It's a place where we all gather and are a community

to support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reaction from other people and just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making my favorite post every single week,

without doubt.

Wait, what,

aren't you part of the group already,

if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search

for the group gift biz breeze don't delay.