355 – A New Selling Style for 2022 that Actually Works with Jeremy Miner

Gift biz unwrapped episode 355.

If you don't have the right skills,

if you don't have the right communication skills,

it doesn't matter how many hours you work.

You're not really going to be that successful as an entrepreneur

Attention gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

Thanks for joining me here today.

And if you're a new listener,

welcome to the show.

We've gotten a lot of new attention from our national bakers

crafters maker's day celebration.

I'm still reeling from all the excitement of last week.

And thank you.

If you participated in sharing handmade memories,

adding to our dollars,

donated and gifts of kindness lists and being part of the

celebration overall,

we decided to leave the website up for a while,

at least.

So if you want to go over and check that out,

you can handmade heals the world.com.

We've got links from the classes,

links to our memory board and other things from that very

special day,

still up for your viewing and participation,

such a fun time,

celebrating you and our handmade industry in today's show.

We're covering what is the most dreaded,

but most important activity for your business selling?

Oh, wouldn't it be great if it would just go away

while it can,

in a way,

I mean,

obviously you need to show your products so people can buy,

but the act of selling can be transitioned into an enjoyable

activity that brings forth a purchase.

Of course,

you're going to hear why your current actions aren't working,

even though you put in hours and hours of effort and

how to switch it up.

So acquiring new customers aligns with natural human behavior to make

all of this so much more comfortable and your sales come

in easier than you could ever believe Today.

It is my pleasure to introduce you to Jeremy miner.

Jeremy is the chairman of seventh level,

a top ranked global sales training company per Jeremy.

The single most effective way to sell anything to anyone is

to be a problem finder and a problem solver,

not a product pusher.

Jeremy's unique brand of sales training pioneers,

the use of behavioral science and human psychology.

He's the host of the podcast.

Closers are losers and a co-author of a new book,

the new model of selling to an unsellable generation.

Doesn't that spark our curiosity,

Jeremy, welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcasts.

Hey Sue,

thanks for having me on your show.

I'm going to take all of that as a really nice

compliment because my kids say I'm pretty boring.

So thank you so much.

It was so nice to hear.

None of this topic is boring.

You know,

we were talking a little bit in the pre chat about

how sales like that is always a topic.

And it'll be interesting to get into the conversation in a

deeper level because behavioral science and human psychology,

as it relates to sales,

I'm really curious about what we're going to get into here

with all of that In a fascinating subject.

That's for sure.

Once you learn it,

you'll never go back to selling,

using traditional selling skills.

That's for sure.

I love that.

And I come out of the old,

old, I won't date myself,

but strategy of,

they say this,

you do this,

they do this,

you do this.

And I closed the book on that years ago,

but I'm always learning to sales things.

Good for you.

I love it.

So Before we get started,

I have a traditional way for you to share with us

who you are through a motivational candle.

So it's a creative way that really resonates with our listeners

here. So if you were to describe yourself or something that

motivates you with a candle,

what color would it be and what would be a quote

that would be associated with the candle there?

So A couple,

but I would say a blue candle,

I think blue in my mind stands for press a virulence.

It stands for commitment.

And I would say the quote would be success is just

a choice.

Success is really just a choice at the end of the

day. Success is a choice.

That's what I would say.

Okay. Success is a choice.

And you're two words I really like because perseverance and commitment

are two words that I don't think we give enough weight

to. And I'm speaking on behalf of our community here because,

and it might be consistent.

You might see this with all the people that you work

with, but I feel like people will try something and it

doesn't work.

So they either decide they're not enough.

They don't have the skills or their product.

Isn't interesting.

And won't sell like right away off the bat,

like one tri it's over.

Yeah, well typically in here's what it is.

And we can dive deep into this.

When I do events like virtual events,

or even we've done a few live events,

but even before pre COVID mainly did live events.

And I would always tell the audience and these usually entrepreneurs,

business owners,

salespeople, coaches,

consultants, right.

People who want to sell more of whatever they sell products

or services,

it doesn't matter.

And I would always say that your biggest expense in life,

like what is your biggest expense in life?

And people would say,

oh, it's my car payment.

Or it's my mortgage.

Or always here.

My kids are my biggest expense or a few people didn't

say taxes.

And I'm like,

wow, taxes are pretty.

Yeah, it was probably one of your biggest expenses.

But your biggest expense in life is your lack of knowledge.

That's your biggest expense.

It's your lack of knowledge of not having the right skills

with what you do to be able to get where you

want to go.

That's your biggest expense.

Now, luckily we can all learn that knowledge.

It just takes commitment and presser barons to learn how to

become successful.

It's not like you're born out of your mother's womb.

Like you're just the successful being like,

God, just,

you know,

magically pitch you on the head with a wand and you're

going to be successful.

People who are successful are committed to learning the right skills

that make them successful.

And I guess I would add to that,

that it's the skills exactly what you said.

It's not doing the same thing that hasn't been working over

and over and over again,

thinking if you do it more suddenly the gate will open

and everything will magically work.

That's so true.

Like I said,

we train a lot of entrepreneurs,

business owners,

salespeople, coaches,

consultants. And I always hear them say,

well, I'm going to sell more.

I'm going to move more of our product.

I'm just going to work longer hours.

And I'm like working longer hours doesn't mean that you're just

going to be successful.

I see so many entrepreneurs.

I see so many salespeople or whoever that worked their butts

off that are completely broke.

You see,

it's not the hours you're putting in.

It's what you are saying.

It's what you are asking to your potential customers.

When you talk with them,

that will determine your success and moving your products and services

to more people.

It's your skill level that determines that.

Because if you don't have the right skills,

if you don't have the right communication skills,

it doesn't matter how many hours you work.

You're not really going to be that successful as an entrepreneur.

I'm an avid reader.

And I was reading Michael,

Jordan's one of his newer books.

And he says that something quite like this,

I might be butchering,

but he said,

but he's like,

you can take a thousand jump shots a day.

But if your technique is wrong,

like if it's off,

if you weren't taught the right technique,

guess what?

You're still not going to be very good at basketball.

So you can work 16 hours a day.

But if you don't develop the right skills,

especially the right communication skills with your clients,

with your potential customers,

you're never going to get to where you want to be.

Now, luckily that can all change.

You just have to learn the right skills.

Well, I think you are speaking too fast.

Majority of the people who are listening,

because that's what we do.

And I think it's human nature.

That that's what you do.

You just think I grind harder.

I do more.

I'm just going to get there.

And to me,

what you're saying is very refreshing.

Like there's another way to do this.

Like everyone,

just back it up for a second and rethink sales to

your point about Michael Jordan and the jump shots.

Like if someone doesn't have the scale and they keep doing

it, what are they doing?

They're entrenching and ingraining that wrong behavior versus learning a new

word. Well,

it's so true.

Like, you know,

as salespeople and I know your audience is mainly entrepreneurs.

I think bakers,

crafters, gift makers,

right? Yeah.

Watching some of your shows the last couple of days.

And even with sales people,

it's so true because they think that they can just work

hard. And like they call hundreds of leads a day to

make a few sales.

And I'm like,

why not learn advanced skills?

Like advanced questions that work with human behavior where you just

call 10 people and you make like six or seven sales,

rather than calling a hundred people to make two or three.

Like, it doesn't make any sense to me.

Right? Hey,

what are you doing?

Like, you're just like pounding your head against the freaking wall.

Hoping and praying that something you're going to say is going

to magically trigger the prospect to want to buy.

And I call that hopium,

it's a drug.

There's so many entrepreneurs and salespeople take where they just hope

and pray that something they're going to say is just going

to cause that person to want to buy.

And it's such a hard and unpredictable way to grow your

business or make sales.

Like you don't have to do it that way.

No, but you know,

that is the old fashioned strategy.

Right? I don't know how MLMs do it today because I'm

not in that arena.

But I do remember door to door sales or when I

was out selling years ago,

I was selling ads in a newspaper.

Like, what was it like,

okay, you make a hundred calls.

You might land 10 oh 10% close ratio.

That's awesome.

Right? And so the strategy was,

you've got to make all those calls because if you make

a hundred,

you'll get 10.

Like it was a numbers thing.

It's like golf.

Like people keep coming back and playing golf because they'll have

one hole where they make par.

They do well.

But the other 17,

they suck.

And then for some reason they think they're good at golf.

It doesn't make any sense.

It's the same thing as salespeople and entrepreneurs,

right? To your analogy right there is there.

They think that I got to call these numbers to make

sense. Well,

you can,

if you want,

and you can grind it out,

you can work 12,

14 hours a day,

or you can learn the right skills that work with human

behavior that get your prospects to pull you in,

rather than you trying to push them and get your prospects

chasing you down,

wanting to do business with you because they view you as

the expert in your field,

the authority in your field.

Whereas if you,

everybody else is just another company or sales person trying to

stuff, their solution down their throat,

which way do you want to be viewed?

Right. Well,

and that's where the whole salesy that uncomfortable,

like really pushy strategy of being salesy that everyone's trying to

stay away from.

In one sense,

you feel like you have to do it to get the

sale. In the other sense,

you don't like how it feels.

And so you're stuck in this crazy dynamic.

That's totally uncomfort.

And it's usually because a person doesn't know what they don't

know. Like you don't know what you don't know,

right? Like this is how you've been taught.

You think this is the way.

So you have to do it this way.

And this might actually help your audience.

My background,

not to geek out or anything.

My background in college was behavioral science.

Okay. And human psychology,

the study of the brain,

like how human beings make decisions and how and why a

person is persuaded or not persuaded to do something.

So everybody's listening right now,

grab a pen and a piece of paper.

If you're driving,

don't do that.

You're going to have to remember this.

So in behavioral science and human psychology are three forms of

communication. Okay?

Once you understand the differences in persuasion and where you are

now with your sales ability,

compared to where you could be completely will change your entire

business. So the first mode of communication is actually what you

just described.

We would call that more like boiler room,

selling era,

era, era,

one type of sales,

according to behavioral science,

we are the least persuasive.

So we're the least persuasive.

When we tell people things,

or we attempt to posture them or dominate them or push

them into doing something we want to do.

Like if you've ever seen that movie,

like Wolf on wall street,

where they're on the phones and they're like,

Hey, I've got a great opportunity for you.

And then we talk about the features and benefits of what

we do.

And then we push and we tell them why they need

to buy and why they need to go with us.

And it's just like telling your spouse that they really,

really need to do something for you.

And then you push them.

What do they typically do back?

They resist.

Well, they push back.

Yeah. Right?

It's human behavior.

This is exactly what your prospects are doing.

Let me give you a few examples for everybody on here,

the least persuasive way to sell.

And I'm going to try to give a few examples that

would kind of resonate with your industry.

First of all,

I don't think many of your people in your industry do

presentations, do they know?

So, but what they do do is they speak with people

at like a craft show or an wholesale at a trade

show and they speak about their product in that environment.

Yeah. Okay.

That makes sense.

So let's say we're in that environment and we talk about

how we have the best,

this, and we have the best that,

and we've got the best customer service and we've got the

best cakes and we've got the best,

this or whatever we're selling.

Right? Here's the problem with that.

Every sales person,

every entrepreneur who does exactly what you do or does anything

else as the exact same thing that they have,

the best product,

they have the best service.

How many salespeople do you know are entrepreneurs?

Do you know that tell you,

yeah. My products fit best in the market.

No one does.

They all say they have the best.

So your prospects,

when you say things like that actually trust you less.

Or even if you talk bad about your competitors,

according to the data,

it's not very persuasive at all telling your story.

I hate to tell you this.

But if you're selling,

one-on-one nobody really cares about your story,

whose story do they care the most about their own,

right? Their story.

That's what they care about.

Give it a sales pitch.

Like I hate that word.

Like hashtag ditch the pitch,

right? We've all been taught.

You got to give a great pitch.

According to the science.

Not very persuasive though.

You ever watch the shark tank SU always.

Yeah. The entrepreneurs come and then they're really excited about their

products. And they say,

they've got the best,

this and the best that watch the sharks.

Reactions look at their body language from mark Cuban and Barbara

Damien John,

when they get pitched,

they're like,

oh my gosh,

like they just cringe up from the pitch and the big

one, assuming the sale,

according to the day of very low on the persuasive pole

hints, like you said,

that's where the term sales is a numbers game conference because

we're triggering it to be a numbers game.

And that's the first mode of selling.

The second mode of selling is called more consultative selling.

We're more persuasive.

And we attempt to have a discussion like in a normal

adult. Okay.

Consultated selling came out in the late eighties with books like

spin selling,

where they taught that you needed to ask logical based questions

to find out the needs of the client.

Now what's a potential downfall of this approach though.

When you only ask logical base questions,

we call those surface level questions where your prospects just going

to give you logical base answers in return and do people

buy on logic or emotion,

emotion, brain studies prove it.

Now a hundred percent that they buy on emotion.

So once again more persuasive than telling your story,

putting sales pressure on them,

but you're still going to play the numbers game because very

little emotion is brought out by simply asking logical based questions

like John,

what keeps you awake at night?

Or can you tell me what solution you're looking for?

Or can you tell me two problems?

You have the most that you got to get rid of

those surface level questions because every single entrepreneur and sales person

asks them all the time.

Now the third mode,

this is what you want to write down.

The most persuasive way.

According to the science to persuade is called dialogue.

Okay. We are the most persuasive.

So this is air three types of sales where the most

persuasive, when we allow others to persuade themselves.

When we ask what are called neuro emotional persuasion questions that

stands for in E P Q neuro emotional persuasion questions.

I know a bunch of boring stuff.

Here's the key though.

We have to learn certain questions and techniques that,

like I said earlier,

work with human behavior to get the prospect,

to want to open up to us,

to want to engage with us and actually pull us in

rather than us pushing them.

Now, that's the question.

How do you get a person,

a human being to persuade themselves?

Can you just show up and tell your prospect,

Hey, I'll give you permission to persuade yourself.

Here's you know,

write out the check in my name.

No, you have to learn specific skilled questions.

And when and how to ask them in a step-by-step structure

that will get your prospects to sell and close themselves,

rather than you trying to do it.

You see the difference in that suit.

Yeah. I mean,

they're really then in control and then they are much more

comfortable or they're feeling that they're in control.

Yes. That's the key you're in control the entire sales process.

Cause you're guiding,

you're like a facilitator.

That's taking them as on this journey telling the yellow brick

road, but you have full control because your questions allow them

to feel comfortable enough to open up to you and actually

want to go below the surface and tell you what the

real problems are and the root cause of the problems and

how the problems are affecting them.

And that pulls out their emotions,

where they tie in.

They buy in to like,

I have to do something about this now.

And you're the only person that's ever made them feel that

way. They feel like they have control,

but who has control?

You do 100%.

It just feels so much more genuine too.

When you describe it that way.

I mean,

you're actually building a relationship.

Yeah. Let me put myself as someone who's selling at a

craft show,

for example.

Okay. So I'm just not forcing my products onto a person

I'm genuinely wanting to get to know who they are,

what their relationship is,

why they're at the show.

You're going to tell me if I'm right here,

Jeremy. Okay.

But why they're at the show?

What the interest is of them coming and seeing my booth

in particular,

getting to know them a little bit and then exchanging information

back and forth,

right? Yeah.

It's more like that.

I think,

you know,

what you're describing is more like retail sales,

like they're coming in leads at networking show or they're coming

into a store.

Right. It's kind of the same thing.

So when they're coming over to you and I'd see this

all the time,

I experienced this when I walk into a trade show and

I'll walk over to a booth and what's usually the first

words out of somebody's mouth in your mind.

So what's the first words most people say,

Can I help you with something today?

Or what are you looking for Today?

Hi, how can I help you?

Can I help you with something today?

And what's the first word out of the prospect.

No, I'm just looking.

Yes. See,

we triggered that by that question because they're used to every

single person that's ever sold to them in retail saying the

same question.

When I want a pair of jeans and I walk into

the Jean store and they say,

how could I help you today,

sir? Just looking,

even though I'm like,

man, I really need a pair of jeans.

I've got big holes in mine.

Like I can't wear them to my date tonight or whatever.

Like we are looking we're in the market.

We came in and yet we're being triggered to say,

just looking,

it's a knee jerk question,

which they give you a knee jerk answer in return.

So I want to pre handle that.

I'll kind of give you an example of what you'd want

to do.

So let's say somebody comes over,

let's say even a retail store,

right? Let's say you're a baker,

right? You're in a retail store.

You're at a trade show and you've got some,

I don't know,

cookies. I love cookies.

So that's my only weakness is the sugar and the cookie

Let's work with cookies.

Let's work with Those.

So they come over,

they're looking for cookies.

All right.

Cause this is me.

Like I'm a cookie.

My three-year-old says you're a cookie monster daddy.

So yes,

the cookie monster.

So let's say I come over.

The first words out of your mouth would be,

oh, Hey,

are you out?

Just looking around today.

Now they're going to say,

yeah, yeah,

I'm just looking.

And then I'm going to say,

oh, okay.

And do you know what you're looking for?

And then boom,

I'm right into the conversation.

You see,

I already spearheaded that objection that they were going to give

me by saying it in my first sentence.

Oh, Hey,

how's it going?

Are you guys out just looking around today and they're going

to say,

yeah, yeah.

We're just looking.

Okay. And do you know what you're looking for?

And then I'm right into the situation.

See how that works.

Like I'm just giving the objection in the first thing I

say. So they agree with me.

They're not going to object.

And then I ask them,

do they know what they're looking for?

And I'm right into that dialogue makes sense,

Jeremy, I've never heard this before.

Well, there,

you probably never heard a lot of what we do before.

Okay. So this is fascinating and I love This it's human

behavior. So you speak the initial objection.

They affirm it depending on what the topic is.

And then you extend from there,

With what you're doing.

Now, we would typically do that in different industries,

depending on what they're doing.

We train a lot of car sales people and dealerships as

well. And what do you do when you walk into any

type of retail establishment?

We always teach that opener.

Now, if you're selling financial services on zoom and are in

a meeting,

you're not going to start with something like that.

Right? So it depends on the industry,

whether it's retail,

whether it's an inbound lead,

who's booked on your calendar,

an outbound leads,

you're calling on the phone or a cold call or a

boardroom meeting.

There's going to be different openers we would use.

But for retail,

with what you do with what your audience is,

probably having people come to them into a store,

into like a trade show.

You'd always want to do that because it's just like cars.

Like you come in.

You're like you come into the BMW dealership,

you're looking for a new car.

Right. And they come out and say,

Hey, how can we help you?

Just lucky.

Right? That's your initial,

your spots.

But if I come in and say,

Hey guys,

welcome to the dealership.

Are you guys just all out?

Kind of looking around today?

Yeah. Yeah.

We're looking okay.

And do you know what you're looking for?

Possibly. And then you start right into that conversation is so

easy when you just tweak it just a little bit.

Okay. So let me ask you this question,

because what you're doing is you're knocking down them being defensive.

You're disarming them.

Okay. Have you read any type of sales book?

You can't see me here because we're just on audio.

But I've got about in my library here,

like right behind me.

Okay. Probably half of those are on sales,

persuasion, human behavior,

psychology. Any of those books always talk about,

well, the sales books do not the psychology books cause they

would never see that.

Cause they know it doesn't work.

They talk about always be closing the ABCs of closing.

How many of us have heard of that?

We read a book that says you got to follow the

ABCs of closing.

Always be closing.

Well you can,

if you want to be average at sales,

because in our day and age with information age we live

in today,

people don't fall for those little tricks.

They just don't like when you try to push,

push, push,

they just push,

push, push back.

So we want to follow now what I call the a

B D's a,

B D as in dog of selling.

And that stands for always be disarming because here's one thing

I think a lot of people don't understand within the first

seven to 12 seconds of any sales call you're on or

any sales interaction you're in,

even at a trade show or a retail store or anything,

your prospect is subconsciously picking up on your social cues.

We can't help it as a human being.

Okay. We just do.

We subconsciously pick up on your verbal and nonverbal cues from

your tonality and what you are saying or,

and, or asking that triggers their brain to respond in one

or two ways.

Now, if you come across needy and attached,

like you're trying to make that sale and you don't know

the right questions to ask to trigger engagement.

It actually triggers their brain to go into what we call

fight or flight mode.

I think a lot of people have heard of fight or

flight mode.

They just don't know what that means.

What that means is they try to get rid of you.

And they say things like,

oh, you know what?

I'm just too busy.

Can you just give me a card?

And you know,

we'll think about it and get back to you.

Can you just email me some information?

Here's my email or this sounds good.

If you give me your card,

I'll get back to you in a week,

a month,

a year later.

And then what happens?

Nothing. They never get back to you.

Nothing. Cause you've triggered fight or flight mode.

Now, if you come across more neutral,

more like you're not quite sure you can even help them.

Right? And you're more calm and relaxed and especially detached.

And you ask the right questions.

It actually triggers the brain to become curious enough where they

want to engage with you.

They want to open up to you because you might have

something that's very important to them.

You're just different.

So you have to come across the tach from the expectations

of making the sale.

And instead we really need to focus on whether there's a

sale to be made in the first place,

whether or not they have problems that we can actually solve.

Now, do I mean that when they come over to you

in a trade show or they come into your store,

you're on a call that you shouldn't make a sale?

No, of course you should.

But the moment you have to keep that to yourself because

the moment your prospect feels that you are just trying to

sell them,

like trying to slam your solution down their throat is the

moment they start to emotionally shut down.

You with me.

Totally with you.

I have a situation I want to ask your opinion on.

Yeah. So local community craft show.

So it's outside,

like the community's put them together on the streets and there's

all these booths.

And there's a booth with a woman who sells clothing.

Okay. So there's racks of clothing in her booth.

She's there.

Someone walks into the booth and she welcomes them in.

Hi, you know,

I love that you're here today.

Take a look around.

If you have any questions I'm here and available.

You know,

if you want to talk,

how do you feel about that approach,

welcoming them in saying they're available and allowing them to just

look around Is one of your goals for this year,

a new approach to social.

Are you finally admitting that you're spending far too much time

there without seeing anything in the way of results?

Or do you jump onto Instagram planning to post,

but get caught up in all the fabulously produced reels,

then you get intimidated and step back.

Yeah, me too.

We know at this point we should post consistently with quality

content, but when it comes time to actually do it,

figuring out what to post is overwhelming and time consuming.

That's why I created content for makers.

Last year.

Many of you have purchased this high value,

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And guess what?

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And now let's get back to the show.

Yeah, it's okay.

But you just don't control anything there.

So you're just hoping and praying that they're going to look

around and magically see something great that triggers them to want

to buy from you.

How would you adjust that?

How would you make that better?

Same thing.

Hey, welcome into the shop today.

Are you guys just all out kind of looking around today?

Yeah. Yeah.

We're just out looking,

having some Fun.

Okay. Same way.

Same wording.

Oh, okay.

And we might not even have what you're looking for.

Do you know what you're looking for specifically now?

See how I just change that now we might not even

have what you're looking for,

but do you know what you're possibly looking for?

Just to see if we have it,

you're coming across more neutral by making that statement that you're

not quite sure you can even help them yet because you

don't know yet.

Right. So when you do that,

it removes any sales pressure from that conversation where the prospect

feels comfortable enough to actually open up to you and engage

with you.

That's the difference.

Okay. So what do you do about a customer who really

doesn't know what they're looking for?

Like they're at this show because they're just looking around to

see if there's anything interesting.

They might buy for a gift they might buy for themselves.

They really just want to look,

Let me do this.

I'll just role play with stuff.

And do you know what you're looking for?

Well, I'm not really sure.

Just kind of looking around,

well, if you really thought about it,

like what type of gift do you think you'd actually be

after? So just to rephrase,

what if you really thought about it?

What do you think you might be looking for?

Are you looking for more,

a shirt or more like key chains or what are you

actually looking for?

Just to see if we could even help you?

Cause we might not be able to exactly that you just

rephrase the question in a different way.

Okay. Got it.

I love these levels and it becomes so much clearer your

Eero one,

which was like the pushing the way old.

Right. Then consultative selling,

which is better,

you know,

for sure it's better.

Yeah. It's better than the first way.

Sure. Yeah.

But then getting into more of the dialogue like that,

it just honestly like,

even if you look at life overall,

like let's say you get an email and you respond to

an email and someone responds back or social media,

even, you know how we talk about all the actions in

the direct messages,

right? Even that individual attention and response,

that's not Saleen,

Yoda's not one of those.

Auto-responders, that's just automatically selling already.

You have more of an emotional connection with that brand.

That person,

whoever it is.

I see it just throughout life working better.

We're transferring it over to sales.

Yeah. A hundred percent.

It's human behavior.

One-on-one. And before I forget,

cause sometimes I forget when I get on a podcast,

if your guests want more of those type of questions or

what to do,

if a customer says this or a customer throws out this

objection, like if they wanted some resources on those types of

questions to use in different scenarios,

I think we gave you the website.

They can go to,

they can join our free Facebook group.

That's probably the best it's.

I always forget it.

It's www dot sales,

revolution dot groups.

So sales revolution.group.

And if they want to join to get some of those

resources, right.

When they join,

there'll be like a two question survey that is like,

what do you sell?

What are your price points?

It just helps track data for who's in our group,

we have about,

I think about 13,000

people in there now,

or somewhere in that range that are entrepreneurs and small business

owners and sales professionals.

And right when they join,

have them check their DMS because somebody in my team will

DM them a free resource,

a free training called the BQ one-on-one mini course.

And it will give them several different questions that they can

use for different situations that they're in selling their products or

services. We always give that away for free when somebody joins.

So they're welcome to do that.

If they want to learn those types of skills.

Oh wonderful.

The link to the group will definitely be in the show

notes. So if you didn't catch it now,

just jump over to the show notes and you'll be able

to get in there.

Jeremy, what else happens in the group when someone joins,

what can they expect?

Well, we do a lot of cool things in the group.

We started that probably about nine months ago.

So it's rapidly growing,

but typically we go live in there about four times a

week with different trainings,

different Q and A's.

We have geez,

hundreds of different industries have different types of people that are

in there.

So we get a lot of different types of questions so

they can get their questions answered about sales.

Maybe they have a situation like you did like,

Hey, what do I say?

If the prospect comes into my clothing store and they say

this, how do I respond to that?

So every week we give out usually a,

some type of training,

you know like,

Hey, if you ever got the,

I want to think it over.

Objection. Well,

in today's group training that Jeremy did with his advanced inner

circle clients,

he went over exactly how to get the prospect overcome that

here's a free 20 minute training.

So we do a lot of stuff like that.

And if they ever want to learn more advanced skills so

they can sell more of their products and services,

they just tag us or message us.

And somebody on my team will get them with one of

our team members and see if we can help them sell

more. We've got a lot of different obviously training products and

services for Denver to industries that we use to get big

time results.

For sure.

We train a lot of people in your guys' space to

actually Wonderful.

Well, I think we all should go and take a look

at that group,

get the free information and the live trainings and questions,

all of that and where that leads.

I mean,

I'm very curious about that.

So that sounds like an amazing resource.

I think another potentially really great resource for everybody is your

podcast, Jeremy.

Sure. Yeah.

They can always listen to our podcast.

Closers are losers.

Everybody's like what?

Closers or losers?

No, I'm a Winner.

I know you get the attention there.

I'm a winter cozy.

Right? Everybody's like we just slap them in the face.

We don't even like to use the word closing that closing

is so misunderstood.

Like so many people are like,

oh, okay,

well what did you ask them to close them down?

Well, I hate to tell you folks,

people do not decide to buy at the very end,

like one cheesy closing line.

Do you want the red one or the blue one?

Do you want to take delivery Tuesday at five or Wednesday

at four.

Okay. I hate that.

Yeah. That's not where the sale is won or lost at

with a closing technique.

Okay. The sale is won or lost during the discovery part

of your sales process,

it's won or lost with your question ability that allows your

prospects to view in their mind that it's far more risky

for them to do nothing.

Stay in the status,

quo, their problems stay the same and nothing ever changes for

them than it is for them to actually get the money

together, purchase what you're offering,

to solve their problems and get what they want,

which is more risky.

Okay. At the end of your conversation,

instead of just saying like,

well, Hey,

you want to buy or you want the red one or

the blue one?

Or why don't you give it a try?

Like some of these cheesy closing lines,

you simply ask them what we call a commitment question.

We don't like to use the word closing because we feel

like it demeans people.

Like you're just a number like I'm just closing,

closing, closing,

closing people like who wants to be closed.

All right.

But we want to ask commitment questions that get them to

commit, to take the next steps,

purchase what you're offering to solve their problems,

to get what they want.

So we can simply ask a commitment question after we go

through everything,

just say,

do you feel like this could be the answer for you?

And most people will be like,

yeah, I do.

Or they might say,

yeah, but I don't have the money.

Well, money aside.

Why do you feel like it would though?

See that's an Annie PQ probing question.

And now they're going to tell me why they feel like

it's what they're looking for.

But more importantly,

who are they going to tell that to themselves?

They're telling it to themselves.

And do you think that by asking those commitment questions and

them responding more in a dialogue to your wording,

so it's still more of a conversation.

It's a skilled conversation.

Okay. A skilled conversation.

Do they then talk themselves into the sale?

Is that what is happening By this point?

Really closing is like 5% of the sale.

The other 95% is done in the engagement part of that

process where you're helping them find problems.

They didn't have one thing we have to understand.

I see so many entrepreneurs and salespeople are like,

well, you know,

we just have to sell to what they need.

Well, I'm like,

well, that's the problem.

Most of your prospects don't know what they need.

Like they don't know what they don't know when they first

start talking to you.

Let me give you an example.

Like if I have a headache this morning and I'm like,

you know,

I need to go to my doctor.

I need to get some medication because man,

this migraine is just killing me.

I need some headache medicine.

Like that's what I need in my mind.

But I go to the doctor and the doctor starts asking

me a few questions and he's asking me about the symptoms

and when they started and what it feels like and how

it's affecting me.

And then he realizes it might be more than just a

migraine. And he's like,

we possibly need to do a,

what's a scan on your head,

like a cat scan.

I don't even know what that's called.

Cat Scan or MRI or you know what?

It depends.

Yeah. Cats yet.

I can't remember what it's called.

Yeah. MRI,

cat scan on your head.

And they find after that cat scan that day that you

have a brain tumor and oh,

by the way that brain tumor is life-threatening and you've probably

got about 30 days before you die.

Okay? The hell with your budget of thinking,

you only needed a hundred bucks to get some pain medication

for your migraine.

Let's say that surgery to remove the tumor is a hundred

thousand the hell with your budget.

You're going to move around money.

You're going to go get alone.

You're going to do whatever you can to solve that problem.

But in the beginning,

you didn't even know you have that problem.

So you can never sell to the need of the prospect.

You have to sell to what the real problems are.

Now, most of your prospects,

like I mentioned,

don't understand.

They even have a problem.

When you first start talking to them or maybe they don't

know how bad their problems really are,

or maybe the consequences of what will happen if they don't

do anything about solving their problems.

Now, once you learn any BQ,

once you learn the right questions,

not only are you able to help them find one problem,

but you can also help them find two or maybe three

or four other problems they didn't even know they had.

And when you're able to help them see the problems they

have and where they are now compared to where they want

to be,

they will start to view you as the expert,

the trusted authority,

who's going to get them the results they want.

And they will gladly pay way more money for what you

sell than they would for any other product or service,

because that's how they view you now see how that works.

Yeah. And I'm thinking of our audience here because a lot

of them will be saying,

right this minute,

I can hear their minds rolling around saying I sell pampering

products. My lotions and oils don't solve a problem.

Or the woman with the clothing shop,

I sell clothes to make people feel pretty.

Like they don't have a problem.

Oh, you just saw no problem for them.

That's ever made was meant to solve a problem.

And I'll give you an example.

Like we trained a very big exotic car dealerships.

Okay. And they sell Lamborghinis and Royal Royce's and Aston Martins,

their cheapest cars,

like $300,000.

Most of them are like half a million.

And I remember when I first started telling the managers like,

man, it's like,

we don't really solve any problems with these cars.

Like people are just rich.

They just come in here and they just buy it or

they don't buy it.

I just got all the money.

I'm like really interesting.

Let me give you a scenario.

And I just told him about myself.

I said,

you know,

about five years ago,

I went out and I spent $220,000

on a Maserati.

Do you know why I did that?

He's like,

no, because you're rich.

You have a lot of money was like,

no, no,

no. It was because when I grew up as a kid,

my dad lost his job.

And we went from a middle-class family to a very poverty

family. My mom had to go back into school.

She was a waitress.

We had five kids in the family.

We literally went from middle-class to food stamps in about two

months. And I remember my first practice going into baseball.

I was like an 11 year old.

I went in there and all my friends were making fun

of me.

Cause I didn't have the Nike cleats anymore.

I was running the cheap void crates from Walmart because my

family couldn't pay for them.

And I remember what type of impact that had on me.

Like I'm never going to be poor like this.

Like I'm never going to be made fun of it.

And that drove me where eventually I felt like I had

to have this prestige and the status in my neighborhood that

I lived in by buying that house that was huge.

Or you know,

the cars that I drove in that solved an emotional need

for me,

that's what you're solving.

And he was like,

whoa, I never thought about it that way.

Yeah. So that clothing,

that shirt solves what any emotional needs,

because after all,

if they just were wearing something to keep them warm,

so they don't freeze,

they could go buy some type of sweatshirt from Walmart,

right. Or if you sell cars in the same thing,

you could just go drive a cheap Honda to get to

point a to point B.

So you're sobbing with clothing and those types of things and

emotional need is what you're solving.

That's what women's clothing does it solves any emotional need shoes

and emotional need.

Right. Exactly.

And the key there is emotional.

And we've already talked about the fact that people buy from

emotion, right?

Not logic.

Yeah. You're solving an emotional problem that that prospect has 100%.

You have to understand that nice shirt in your clothing store

solves any emotional that she has in her mind that makes

her feel maybe more sophisticated.

That makes her feel better about herself.

That makes her feel that she can maybe attract a better

boyfriend or something.

You know,

it just,

whatever it is,

right? Like it solves any emotional Nate.

Right. So I suggest to everybody who's listening,

like really think about your product and consider what the emotional

fulfillment is that your product provides before you get in this

situation where you're gonna need to talk to people about it.

What are the different reasons why people are buying from you

and what is it that your product solves from an emotional

standpoint? Yeah.

Like if you sell apple pies and let's say that a

company is coming in,

because they want to buy a bunch of apple pies for

some type of convention,

you're not just solving the emotional need for those people.

You're solving like convenience.

You're solving the PI's being on time.

You're solving the pies being warm because last year they bought

pies from somebody else and they recalled like,

there's so many things that your questions can help discover that

you wouldn't even have thought could be a problem for that

prospect. Yep.

Yep. Yep.

Okay. Before we run out of time here,

Jeremy, I have one final question for you.

Ask away.

How do You think,

I mean,

all of this that you have talked about is golden.

I am so excited to listen to this again and go

through and think about some of the things that you've said

here for myself as well.

But what do you see having changed over the course of

these last couple of years?

If anything,

where are we at as buyers versus people who have products

to offer today?

And what advice do you have?

I think the way that things have changed and it's been

building up,

it's been building up for decades.

I think it's kind of hit it really hard with the

And then again with the pandemic,

almost Jesus,

like we've been in the pandemic for 55 years now.

I think I'm Like,

I know That you're number five.

Like what's going on?

You know,

I'm like loss now I just tune everything out.

So I think what's changed.

And it's been changing.

Is that your prospects,

even if you sell very low ticket,

even if you sell cakes,

okay, your prospects are even more cautious and skeptical about making

the wrong buying decisions and they have ever been before.

And why is that?

You know,

one of our clients,

his name's Brandon Cain,

he's the author of hook.

Point. How to stand out in a three second world.

He's a big influencer that does all like Taylor Swift's social

media, Rihanna,

MTV, social media.

So he's like this big dude in Hollywood.

And he talks about that.

There are over 3 billion content creators every day who are

trying to take away your prospect's attention.

Okay. If you think about it,

even 13 year old girls on Tik TOK,

you are now competing with,

for their attention,

right? Do you know how many content creators there were 20

years ago?

Less than 1 million.

Now there's 3 billion.

See, we live in the information age.

We live with the power of the internet,

social media,

where your prospects are being sold to 24 hours a day,

seven days a week,

month after month,

year after year.

And when I say that at events,

I'm like,

oh no,

that's not true.

You're not being to all the time.

Oh, really?

Think about it.

When you wake up in the morning,

what's the first thing you do.

You get on your phone.

You scroll through your Facebook,

you see ads trying to what?

Sell you something.

You walk into the kitchen,

you're tired.

You're pouring your coffee.

You turn on the TV.

What do you see?

Commercials trying to sell you something.

You get into the car to go to your office for

work. You turn on the radio.

What do you hear?

Radio ads trying to sell you something.

You drive down the road.

You see billboards up to the site,

trying to sell you something.

You get on your lunch break.

You start scrolling through social media.

You're on Instagram.

Now you see ads doing what,

trying to sell you something.

You get home at night,

you see your aunt post about her latest,

greatest MLM that she wants you to join.

So you're constantly being sold to all of the time.

And because of that,

which is only getting more human beings have built up a

wall of resistance.

Anytime we feel that someone is trying to sell us something.

So we had to start learning instead of being a product

pusher, like you kind of introduced me as like,

you don't want to be a product pusher.

You have to learn how to become a problem finder and

problem solver.

And that means asking the right questions at the right time

in the conversation that gets the prospect to see what their

real problems are and not just what the real problems are,

but the root cause of the problem and how the problems

are actually affecting them.

When you're able to do that,

selling becomes boring.

It becomes so easy.

And that's what you want it to be.

I'm nodding my head over here because that's exactly our life

everywhere. You turn around,

you're being sold to.

And if you can break through all of that,

be more of a friend and a consultant,

still guiding the conversation,

as you're saying,

but letting them figure it out and walk their path with

your kind of gentle guidance through,

you're going to be so different from everybody else out there.

And we want to be careful.

And I know what you mean.

I don't think you mean like just being a friend,

like, Hey,

come over to being a friend doesn't necessarily mean that you're

going to make a lot of sales.

You know,

if you read Dale Carnegie's book,

how to win friends and influence people.

Great book.

The problem is,

are completely different than they were 80 years ago.

Okay. People used to buy it from the local butcher store

because they liked him.

They used to buy from their aunt because they'd liked them.

Okay. People don't buy in our day and age from people

who they like,

they buy from people and companies who they feel can get

them the best result.

Think about Amazon.

You would probably much rather buy from your friend next door,

who has a local shop who sells the same thing.

But you're buying from Amazon because of why?

Because they get you a better result,

right? You would much rather buy from the butcher that lives

in your neighborhood because you're friends with them.

But you go to a bigger grocery store because they get

you a better result.

People buy from people who they feel can get them the

best results.

If they like you,

that's just a bonus in our day and age,

they don't buy from you just because they like you,

they buy from you because they feel like you can get

them the best results.

But you have to ask the right questions that allow them

to see that you can't tell them that.

Cause it's going to go in one ear out the other.

Yeah. Would you also say though,

they'll buy based on their values because my son is a

perfect example.

He will buy something more expensive versus on Amazon because he

does know the owner of the business and by the way,

they're green and he's very concerned about the environment.

So, but that also goes back to buying from emotion.

Yeah. Because he feels like that person is going to get

him a better result with maybe the green products.

Then maybe what he could buy from Amazon.

It's all about results to always buy based on results.

If they like you,

that is a bonus.

That's it.

Now, if they feel they have two companies that get them

the exact same result and they also like you,

then obviously that's a bonus,

right? But people buy based on who they feel can get

them the best result.

They'll gladly pay you way more like you love grandma.

You love her.

And let's say you want to get into MLM or something.

Right. You love grandma.

And she wants you to join her downline or what do

they call it?

But you have somebody else who you met the other day.

You don't even know,

but they're the number one producer in the company.

Well, who are you going to join?

You're going to join the person.

Who's going to get you the better result.

Not grandma,

even though you love grandma.

You're probably not going to tell grandma you're doing it though.

Exactly. Okay.

All right.

Final word for our listeners from you,

Jeremy People always ask me like,

if you could describe sales in one word,

what would that word be?

And I said,

you know,

I need to come up with a word.

Cause when people ask me that,

I think here's what it is.

Sales is all about change.

It's about one thing only.

It's about change.

It's about how good you are at getting the prospect to

view and their mind that by changing their situation,

that means buying what you sell is far less risky for

them. And then doing nothing at all saying the status quo,

their problems stay the same.

Now here's what we have to understand about change.

Sales is about change,

but human beings don't like change.

Let me repeat that.

Okay. Cause everybody's like,

what? Huh?

Okay. Sales is all about change,

but human beings don't like change even though they say they

do. It makes us feel uncomfortable.

Especially when it's initiated by some pushy sales person to pitch

their takes within 30 seconds of meeting the prospect human behavior

shows that we value something that is familiar.

Even if we don't really like it that much over something

that is maybe unknown to us or foreign to us,

like think the battered spouse syndrome,

right? They don't like the spouse.

They keep getting beat up,

but they keep going back.

Cause that's what they know.

Right? Human behavior shows that we value tradition and consistency.

So you have to realize that you're not selling the thing

you're selling the results of that thing.

Okay. You're not selling the designer dress to the lady you're

selling the results of what that dress is going to do

for how it's going to make her feel.

That's what you're selling.

You're not selling the actual dress itself.

You're selling the results of what it does for them.

So that's what I would leave the final thought.

And it changes them in a positive way that they're desiring,

which is why the change is accepted.

Yep. A hundred percent that's right.

Golden information,

Jeremy. So many new concepts for us to consider and think

about. I appreciate you coming on sharing all of this with

us today and absolutely you guys go over,

check out the group,

listened to the podcast because all of this is going to

continue. You've just heard in what about 40 minutes?

So much good content.

Just imagine what's out there waiting for you,

Maybe a few little orders to chew on,

but yeah,

the best,

if you ever want to learn about us or get any

resources, I just have them go to our free Facebook group,

sales revolution,

dog group.

And right when they join,

we'll tag them with a free resource of different questions they

can ask and different sales scenarios that will help them for

sure. So,

so it was an honor to be on.

I really appreciate you.

Thank you so much.

I love Jeremy's term hopium because I think that's what a

lot of us do.

Put up social posts,

exhibit at shows or email our list with a promotion and

then hope those efforts will bring in orders,

being a problem solver versus a product pusher and doing it

strategically is definitely a plan worth following on tap for next

week. A look into something sweet and an interesting path that

led my guest to what she's doing today.

If you're currently working in a field or have a position

that is less than fulfilling,

you'll find this one really insightful as always.

Thanks so much for spending time with me today.

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Got a really fun post in there.

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