319 – How to Capture the Power of Pinterest with Laura Rike

Gift biz unwrapped episode 319.

If they click through this image,

it's going to take them to where they can actually physically

buy it.

Attention. Gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

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packed full of invaluable guidance,

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Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

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access right now,

continuing with the conversation about online content.

The more I hear about Pinterest and recently starting and dabbling

in this platform for gift biz unwrapped,

the more attention I'm giving Pinterest,

honestly, it feels calmer and more rewarding for the time that

you put in.

You're going to hear why I say this as we get

into the show.

Oh, and in the background from time to time,

you're going to hear little Bailey,

make an appearance,

her very first podcast,

keeping it real and making things happen.

That's the way we roll.

Yeah. Today it is my pleasure to introduce you to Laura

Reich. Laura is a Pinterest strategist and helps high-performing business owners

and content creators implement content growth plans,

outsource their visibility and steadily grow their monthly revenue all without

tantrums over tech and trading,

sleep for success.

Oh my gosh,

is that a breath of fresh air?

She describes herself as a quirky spunky,

social butterfly that values open honest relationships in every area of

her life.

She's also the mother of,

well, we did say too,

but I think it's now three children who are the center

of everything.

Laura, welcome to the gift biz unrepped podcast.

Thanks. Thank you so much for having me.

And yes,

you are correct.

We do have three now.

Yeah. So two boys and a brand new little girl.

Yeah, that is Right.

She's about four months old now.

So she's going to Make her debut with us today.

So this Will be her first high cast appearance,

right? It will be,

yes. Okay.

Well now I want her to say something,

one noise here or there along the way.

We'll be just fine.

I do something a little bit different to kick off our,

and that is through a motivational candle.

And having you describe yourself in that way.

So if you could help us envision a candle that you

would create yourself that really speaks to who you are,

what color would it be and what would be a quote

or a saying that would be on your motivational candle?

Yeah, Absolutely.

And I can't tell you how much I love this question

because it actually makes you think a little bit.

And I think for me,

my candle would be a mix of pink and purple.

So that fuchsia bright color,

just like as in my business colors,

really, because it's that happy tone.

And it kind of brings out the joy in everybody and

something that I hold dear to my heart is the fact

that we don't have to compete with other people.

I feel like I have been put on this path that

I'm on to be able to help other people build their

empires without losing that sleep over success.

Like I said,

but really not worrying about other people really focusing on their

gifts that they were given and that there's mentors,

mentees collaboration's out there,

friends out there don't focus on the competition or don't focus

on feeling judged.

I grew up most of my time when I was younger

in high school,

always feeling like I had to put on a facade or

be the best at everything.

And it was tiring to say the least.

And so that's really what I want other people to feel

when I so-called light this candle for them is joy and

the release of feeling like they have to be in competition

with everything and just really let their own personality shine through

the flicker of that count.

It's so true.

And I don't think we can always avoid it,

but to just put it to the side.

Yeah. I so agree with you because it's so freeing not

to be thinking that way.

I kind of think of it for myself as just staying

true to the audience that's coming to you for the value

that they're getting from you,

whether it's a product or a service.

Yeah. I'm just staying total eyes focused on those.

You're serving and not looking at other people who are potentially

doing something similar because they might be offering something kind of

similar, but they're not offering it the way you are.

Yep, absolutely.

And like you said,

it's still going to come up.

It still comes up for me.

I mean,

it can come up any day,

any month,

whatever, but to have it set so that you know how

to get over that mindset block and you know that you've

released it before,

that's really empowering.

And to know that person that you're probably maybe feeling intimidated

with or you're feeling like they're farther along than you are.

So could you ever get to where they are?

They probably feel the same about somebody else too.

Yeah. This isn't exclusive to a certain group of people.

Everybody has this.

Yeah. I actually was super humbled when I was going on

a podcast with someone else that I really looked up to

and she was like,

I was super nervous to have you on this call.

Cause I know how awesome you are.

And I was like,

are you serious?

Thank you.

But I was super nervous to come on with you.

It's interesting to see everybody's different way that they're processing things.

You never know what somebody else's thinking.

And so just don't take that for granted.

Right? That's so valuable.

I love that we got into this conversation and I'll just

share with you,

Laura, that I see this a lot in our community here

where people want to hold so close to their chest,

a product that they make not share too much.

And when they don't share,

then nobody knows about the product.

Yeah. So it's kind of self-defeating because if you don't talk

about it,

how are people gonna know about it to buy it?

Exactly. Let's face it.

We're talking still with candles.

So I'm going to stay with the candles here,

but you selling candles doesn't mean that someone who loves candles

won't buy from multiple people,

you included,

you don't only have one special brand of jewelry that you

wear. You might have some that you favor more than others,

but there's reasons why you like jewelry or candles or whatever

it might be.

And you buy from multiple places.

Yup. Absolutely.

But it takes some conversation for people to get past that

for sure.

Anyway, why don't we dive into the topic at hand here?

I been teasing that you've been coming on.

So I know that our listeners are anxious to talk about

Pinterest. It's something that we haven't shared too too much.

Just a little bit.

We've started talking about it a little bit in the way

of Pinterest structure and using Pinterest as a platform.

And then I've also had a couple of people on who

are product makers who do use and see success in Pinterest

for their business.

But we know that not everyone who's listening right now has

heard any of those past episodes either.

And sometimes it takes you hearing things a couple of times

too, to really understand.

Yeah, for sure.

But share with me why you narrowed in,

on Pinterest as being your platform specialty,

if you will.

Yeah. So I started out years ago as a virtual assistant

and I was kind of doing everything back then.

I only had one child.

We were thinking about planning for our second and I really

kind of felt burnt out.

I felt like I wasn't able to connect as deeply with

the clients that I was working for as I wanted to,

to make that big impact that I really longed for.

So I wanted to figure out what really I enjoyed and

helped them the most in something that they really didn't have

the knowledge in.

I had gone to school in the past for graphic design

and had a bachelor's in advertising design.

I started dabbling in different ways that I could use love

for graphic design and fell on Pinterest when it was still

invite only back then.

Oh my gosh.

That's a ways back.

So you've had a journey with this platform from the beginning.

Yeah, I have,

I didn't always do it as a service for everyone,

but just really for my own personal blog and things that

I was working on.

I had an MLM company back then.

I was working with things like that,

that I really focused on.

Okay. How can I grow these side things for myself while

still working with clients?

And I found myself actually exponentially growing different things.

When I really put my focus into the design and Pinterest.

So I started to level down to only that I don't

want to put on this Shirad,

that it was easy to drop VA.

It was back and forth for a few years.

I have a couple clients that I still work with today

that went through that transition with me so they can tell

you like it was a journey.

But I decided that when I started seeing the results for

not only my own prerogative on the platform,

but also my clients and how it was able to help

them and how I felt like I was a piece of

the puzzle for their larger message and their impact that they

were making.

That's really when I was like,

okay, this is all I'm going to do.

And I've been doing it now for probably six years only

doing Pinterest.

Well, and I mean,

each of these platforms,

and we're going to decide what Pinterest really is.

I'm going to let you define that in a second.

Yeah. But whether you're talking about a social media platform or

a search platform,

they've gotten so intricate now and they keep adding different levels

of service.

I'm just going to call out Instagram because everyone knows that

like, there are so many different areas that you can sit

in Instagram.

It's pretty much mind-blowing.

So every platform is like that.

Now that you do need to specialize,

I think let's just talk about that specifically.

How would you define Pinterest today?

Cause I know it's changed over the years that you've been

working with it.

A lot Of individuals still define Pinterest as social media.

And I think that's where the frustration comes from for most

of them when they're not seeing the results that they want.

Pinterest is really should be considered a search feed platform.

So think of it like Google,

think of it like YouTube people are going to the platform,

searching for a solution,

whether that's a solution to a problem that they are having.

And they want to do research on it or whether that's

a solution to the newest product that they need in their

home or business or on their person.

That's what they're doing when they go to the platform.

So it's beneficial because they already know that they want this

answer or they want this product.

They just don't know where to purchase or where to learn

more. And that's where Pinterest provides that stepping block for these

individuals. We Shouldn't be using the platforms in the same way

because their purposes are different.

One is social media and one is more search.

And that also then I think means that the way we

interact and as a business posting on those platforms needs to

look different.

Yeah. So you shouldn't take a post that you're posting on

Instagram and just copy it over to Pinterest,

right? Correct.

Correct. I do see people doing that even from like the

tick-tock videos are now going on to Pinterest and you'll probably

still get a little bit of traction with it.

But if you really want to see the results that you're

looking for in terms of reaching a wider audience and bringing

in that traffic and those sales that you're going for,

then I definitely would say take some time to research more

on the platform yourself,

what are people searching for?

And when they're searching for that thing,

what is pulling up right?

And that's something,

I mean,

we can dive into it too,

if you want,

but I call it pin hacking.

Really. It's like click funnels and Russell Brunson.

He used to always say funnel hacking like go through somebody

else's funnel and try to see how you can improve on

it without reinventing the wheel.

It's the same thing.

If you're selling a piece of jewelry and you go to

Pinterest and you search like maybe mother's day jewelry,

or maybe it's an heirloom or something like that.

See what type of designs and titles and call to actions

pull up on those pins.

When you search that term for the product that you offer,

then figure out a way to be able to fill in

the gaps that those other companies are not able to fill

right now so that you can help that individual even further

along their purchasing journey.

So what I want to do here now,

we've made the division between the fact that Facebook,

Instagram, all of the social media platforms are different than Pinterest.

So we're not going to do any comparison anymore.

Now we're going to be focusing just on how to work

with the Pinterest platform to get the best results that you

possibly can.

When we're talking about,

you were saying,

find out what people are searching for.

So you're not able,

you know how they can Google,

you can pull up and it will suggest other search terms

for you.

The way I think I'm hearing you talking about this is

you pull up what you think people are searching for.

You look at the results that are coming up for those

searches and then find what information is missing.

That you can build the value up for that search term,

Correct? Yep.

And you can actually also get similar search terms when you

do that.

Just like on Google.

So what you would do is if you're on your mobile

device, There you go.

And her debut,

What's her name?

This is Bailey.

Isabel Bailey.

Isabel. I love that.

Hi Bailey.

She went on her toys.

She likes what you're talking about.

Yeah, she does.

She's saying go Mama.

You're on your mobile device.

If you look down at the bottom,

you'll see the house and then the magnifying glass.

And if you tap on the magnifying glass,

it'll say search for ideas.

This is very similar on a desktop.

If you go up to the top,

right, you'll see that same magnifying glass.

And then say,

if I just type in jewelry,

then underneath that,

what comes up for me right now is jewelry,

organizer, jewelry,

accessories, jewelry,

making jewelry patterns.

So then it does kind of lead you down that journey

of if you are doing something that like,

maybe you're making a jewelry organizer box,

right? And that's your product will then tap on jewelry organizer

and go through and then take that next step and see

what's pulling up and where you can kind of fill those

gaps again.

So what type of gaps like talking about jewelry,

organizer, that's perfect because we do have people here who are

listening, who I know have a similar product that aligns with

that, where would be the gaps?

Because if you're saying jewelry organizer,

I'm thinking what's coming up are products that are jewelry organizers,

or maybe some articles that talk about how to organize your

jewelry. Yeah.

So both actually come up for me,

you have an explore tab and a shop tab,

the explore tab is going to have some of those products

listed, but then you're also going to have other articles that

pull up.

Like one of them for me,

was beautiful ways to organize your jewelry in a jewelry storage

area. So then they can talk to like how to be

able to store that.

And if this was you and you created the article,

then in that article,

you can link back to the product.

You can also go through and looked at these product images.

And while they're gorgeous,

I always suggest telling product based businesses to AB test your

pins. Meaning tried two different designs or more to see which

works better because when I'm looking at these,

they're gorgeous,

but they don't tell me the information that I need if

I'm searching for something.

So like we have a mirror foldable open cabinet are more

that opens up and has jewelry in it.

It doesn't tell me the length.

It doesn't tell me the type of wood.

It doesn't tell me what type of jewelry organizer this is.

There's no like title or call to action or pricing or

anything included.

And so for me,

I keep scrolling and that's my personal preference,

but that would be a,

maybe for somebody else that you would want to test,

like take that product photo,

put it up there,

but then also take the product photo and have some sort

of title or call to action saying like,

hang this gorgeous are more in your bathroom for $30 or

whatever it is so that people understand more.

And it leads them to click through that image.

Cause that's really how you're going to get them to further

down the line,

purchase that item.

Okay. So that is the big point is any pin that

you put up should include a link so that whoever's looking

at it.

If they're interested,

goes to the next spot,

whatever that next spot is for you,

correct. Whether it's a product sale or more information or something

like That.

Yep. Correct.

So when you're going through them and you're looking up,

stuff like that,

you'll see Etsy,

you'll see Walmart,

you'll see small mom and pop Shopify stores,

things like that.

Some of the articles lead to blogs that are on individual

design maker website.

So it really just depends on where you want to lead

them. Where are you seeing that return on your time or

investment and what actually makes the most sense for you to

lead them down that journey,

to get them to ultimately hit the goal you want,

if it's traffic great,

tell them what to do.

If it's purchasing,

then you want to lead them to where they can purchase.

Once you tell them what to do in that image.

And this is so different than social media,

because all the social media sites want you to stay on

the platform.

Pinterest, it sounds like is leading you off the platform to

further valuable information.

Yup. But then you can still go back to the platform

and find more and more and more make your own boards.

You know,

if you are gathering information,

it's just a whole different thing.

And that brings up a good point too.

I want to let everybody know that Pinterest is a redirection

site. Like you just said,

that's the term that they give it so you can search

for something and it'll redirect you to where you can purchase.

You want to be very careful when you're putting your own

links out there,

do not use the short NERS or redirects yourself.

Make sure it is the actual URL that you want them

to go to.

I know a lot of times in social media marketing or

blogging, we tend to make the link look pretty by shortening

it or make it easy to understand Like a Bitly link

or a pretty link or something like that.

Correct. Okay.

So why would we not do that?

Because those are actually marked as spam because Pinterest is already

a redirection site.

They don't like an auto redirection on top of that.

Plus you don't see the URL.

So even if it's 10 long of a URL,

they're not going to see that they only see the pin

and the call to action.

Oh, that's a really good point,

Laura. I've not heard that before.

Really? Really good.

Okay. So as you've been talking,

I've been thinking about the two different types of pins that

could be done for people who are listening here.

Mostly. I think we're thinking of product pins.

That's my guess.

And you've shared this a little bit already as if you're

taking a picture of your image and you're putting it up

there, then make sure that there's a description and something that

makes people relate to it.

Not just tack,

like just you want the specifics,

but also who is it best used for?

Like what are the uses or something else so that people

really feel like they can relate to it almost as if

it were in person.

We've talked a lot in the past about when people name

their products,

that they need to have words that are specific.

If someone's searching for that product,

I'm thinking that's the same thing here on Pinterest that in

the description,

it should be very not cutesy fancy.

It needs to really say what the product is.

Yeah. The biggest thing that I try to teach people is

be conversational and tell a story in your description while putting

the keywords in there.

So not necessarily being cutesy because that's not going to be

found in the algorithm,

but don't just keyword stuff.

Either. You want to like lead them down that path.

Like if we're on a podcast right now,

I can't show you something.

So how do we describe things?

We use our words.

That's the same way that you want to be able to

do that in a pin description.

Pretend like they can't see that product image pretend like they

don't understand anything about that product.

Tell a story,

be descriptive,

and then make sure you include the click through to see

more or pick your design or choose your color or whatever

it is that you tell them to do so that they

actually take that action for my call to action on Pinterest,

the way I try to visually describe it with my words

is we have three kids.

I will go downstairs in the living room.

That's where our playroom is and I'll be walking around and

I am very like,

I'm not diagnosed OCD,

but I am very OCD about keeping the house clean as

many moms are.

And so I will look around and see a bunch of

stuff out and not picked up.

So I'll start picking it up.

And I get very frustrated because my husband may be sitting

on the couch,

reading a book,

or just sitting there and playing on his phone or whatever

it is.

And I can't get frustrated because I have not verbally told

him that I need help picking up the living room.

He doesn't know that want help cleaning up the house.

If I don't say I want help cleaning up the house.

So that's my way to relate my family life back to

Pinterest, right?

People are coming to you and they don't know who you

are. They don't know your personality.

They are not mind readers.

So in your description in your title,

be very,

very precise.

Make sure you have those keywords and then tell them in

a nice,

polite way,

what you want them to do.

Do you want them to click through,

to purchase then tell them that because they're not going to

read your mind to know that if they click through this

image, it's going to take them to where they can actually

physically buy it.

Right? This has been a great explanation because for sure what

you're saying to all of us is don't just take that

description that you have on your website.

Copy it,

put it on Pinterest with a picture,

put a link and be done 100%.

You know,

you need to add some personality,

talk about the product.

And the thing that I like about this so much,

Laura is it's also getting a potential customer to know the

artist, to have a little glimpse into their life like you

with your children.

Absolutely. We know you better just by telling us.

Absolutely. And they're going to read the description on your website

because you're using Pinterest to lead back there.

So essentially if all you're doing is copying and pasting that

you're losing out on the ability to tell that story more

or include different keywords that pick up a different audience.

Would you ever,

I use them a little bit,

like share all the information with all the keywords to get

them going and then say something like there's something else really

cool about this product click here and You'll find out.

Yeah, absolutely.

Curiosity is a big piece of the puzzle with this.

So especially creating that curiosity in the images,

maybe you show a behind the scenes,

that's not a fully finished product in your pin.

And then you say something like that in the description,

like check out the finished product here or check out this

really cool addition.

Not shown in the image.

Ooh, I like that.

Yeah, because if you're doing this for a product purchase,

you're trying to get them to click,

to come over to the site.

Cause they're one step closer to that buy button then.

Absolutely. Okay,

wonderful. So then what about if you're doing an article and

we very recently also started talking more about why having a

blog is valuable to a product based business.

And so what do you feel?

We know that you can put articles or links or photos

to articles on Pinterest.

What else can you tell us about that is in this

conversation with flora?

Amazing. We're going to get more tips on how to use

Pinterest right after a quick break.

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You can do a number of different Things.

So you have a static pin image that you can do

on Pinterest,

which I suggest looking into text only images,

your product shot,

maybe behind the scenes shot.

You also have the ability to do something called story pins.

This is really cool for product based business owners.

Right now the downfall with story pins is you're not allowed

to link to anywhere.

It's more for brand awareness and having a longer time period

to tell them your story.

So this is cool because they can follow you at the

end automatically from seeing your story and unlike Instagram or other

social platforms,

it stays up forever.

It does not go away in 24 hours.

So you can do like videos showing them how you make

a product.

You can show them the final touches.

Maybe tell them the process of how you got started with

this product.

But you have five to seven different images you can put

together or different videos.

You can do a short clips to really show them your

personality, show them the product,

show them your store,

whatever it is you want to do,

and then build that brand awareness that way.

And the third opportunity you have,

which is linkable like static pins is video pins.

I suggest if you're going to do a video pin to

keep it short and sweet,

again, this would be a fun way to kind of get

them to want more information.

So you can give them a quick,

short, sweet 22nd snippet of something you're working on.

Or maybe you're,

pre-selling an item and it's not out on market yet.

Things like that can really be fun in terms of the

videos. And then you can include the link back to where

the product will actually be.

Okay. And are these videos,

can they just be off the cuff casual videos,

like an Instagram story is or should they be more professionally

done? No,

you Can actually do off the cuff.

We have tested professionally done videos versus just off the cuff

videos. We haven't noticed a big difference between the two.

I think it's just like now,

like I have a four month old sitting on my lap

bouncing while we're doing this podcast recording.

That's just real life.

Right. And people like that,

people like the transparency behind seeing something like that.

So I think sometimes when we see videos that are really

professionally done,

we don't get the full aspect of that personality or that

person. And we're not drawn to them.

Like we would be if they're just off the cuff videos.

And again,

this is my personal preference.

It may be different for other individuals,

but there isn't a big difference between the two.

So don't run out.

If you don't have a professional photographer or a professional videographer

and try to pay for one,

just to do these,

you can take them and record them on your phone and

then put them up there.

You can also take clips.

Like if you've done maybe a live stream on Facebook,

selling different items,

take a clip of one of those live streams and use

that as an interest to lead back to that product because

you were selling it live.

I love that.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

Perfect. Okay.

And so the other thing I'm wondering when I'm thinking of

product specific images,

I do know when you do blog articles or I know

when we're putting up direction to our podcasts over on Pinterest,

that you can do multiple images,

text posts,

text images,

product images,

different types of things that all lead back to the same

link. Yep.

So I'm glad you brought this up.

Yes. One of the major changes recently has been to create

fresh pins and that's really loosely defined by Pinterest.

So there's a lot of information out there as to how

other people are interpreting fresh pins,

the way I teach and the way I'm telling my clients,

we're handling it for them is we're playing on the safe

side of fresh pins.

Meaning if we have one product,

we will create five to seven different images that lead back

to that one product,

whether that's a video,

a static pin story,

pin, whatever,

but then we will schedule those videos.

Those pins out in a longer interval,

meaning I probably will only put one or two of those

images or videos up within 30 days so that I can

make sure I'm not spamming the platform months ago,

even a few years back,

you would be able to put one pin up to one

board the next day,

take that pin and pin it to a different board.

That's no longer best practice.

So be very careful in doing that because Pinterest will actually

consider that as spam and trying to game the system to

get people back to that link.

So you want to focus on making everything different.

The images need to be different.

The description needs to be different.

The URL can be the same,

but make sure it's scheduled out at different times and give

yourself at least a week.

I err on the side of two weeks,

just because I don't want any issues with the platform.

We've seen great growth by doing it that way,

but that's personal preference in regards to how long the interval

should be.

Okay. Okay.

So let me restate this to you.

Tell me if I got this right,

Laura, for sure.

I have a product.

I take a number of different photos.

Maybe one's a closeup.

Maybe one's more of a lifestyle.

You know,

it's a piece that's on a table,

in a house or something like that.

I do a video,

just a number of different types of images.

So the images are all different.

And then my descriptions or the wording behind those images are

different. One might be a story.

One might be something about making the product.

One might be how the product makes you feel.

One might be why it would be a good gift,

all of those types of things,

but all of them lead to the same link because it's

the product that you would want to purchase.

And then,

so you could batch all that and do that all at

the same time,

but then only put one of those images out.

Let's say every couple of weeks,

right, you got to.

And so then I'm thinking as someone continues to do this,

the first times you do this,

you only have a couple of things because you have only,

let's say five of one product,

but then you go and do your second product.

You now have five of that second product.

And as you're scheduling things out,

it all builds on itself.

Correct? Correct.

Yep. And so this is another thing I kind of go

against the grain with a lot of people say you should

be penning 15 to 25 times a day.

Oh My gosh.

Right. I Go completely against that.

I say the platform strictly requests that you stay consistent.

So what is consistent mean for you?

Does consistent mean pinning one image every day.

Does it mean one image every other day until you have

built up that repertoire and repurposing and also think about it?

Like what can you batch out?

Right. I like to educate people to try to be able

to get at least seven days scheduled out within less than

one hour a week.

And that really goes back to my mantra of not trading

your sleep for success.

So if you can consistently that,

then that's where you should start.

Just be very aware of what your going to be able

to keep up with.

Cause you will be rewarded for being consistent,

Spinning off of that.

I know that Pinterest is a long play,

put things up and your people who find you interact with

you, jump over to your products and then hopefully buy right

will happen over time.

And for sure,

I'm not even going to ask you this question because I

know your answer already.

Like it's different for everybody.

How do you know if what you're doing and let's take

your hour a week,

for example,

how do you know if it's going to produce results down

the road?

Because it is a longer play?

How much time should you put in?

What should you look for knowing that all of those are

averages because it's going to be different for everybody.

Yeah. So I absolutely love that you asked how long,

right? Should you go for,

I personally request everybody.

Try it for 90 days consistently.

That's actually full disclosure in my contract when starting with clients

is it's a 90 day contract.

And then we do every 30 days after that,

the reason being is every 30 days,

I set a goal with my clients saying,

okay, what is your good,

better? And best goal is your good goal to have product

images and branding,

and really start that brand awareness in the first 30 days.

And then the next 60 days,

you want to have good branding,

good brand awareness and click-throughs to your landing page.

Then maybe in the 90 days,

you'd like to see two sales come in,

whatever it is,

make sure you set that goal ahead of time.

So then you can go back to the platform and look

at your analytics.

And I personally love the amount of information that Pinterest gives

you for free.

Now, in terms of your analytics,

I want you to look at them on a desktop because

when you're looking at your analytics on a mobile device,

it does not give you all the capabilities that they give

you on a desktop on your computer.

You can actually see audience insights based on what they've been

interested in,

how they've clicked through if they've saved your pins,

but not actually clicked through like there's loads of information out

there for you on your profile when you have that business

account. And then you go down the road of looking at

things. What I call is a,

if this,

then that,

right? So if they have pulled your pin closer,

meaning they've tapped on it.

It was the only pin that they saw on their screen.

That's called a closeup.

If they've done that,

but they haven't clicked through.

Then maybe you should look at your call to action.

Did you tell them what you wanted them to do?

Right. If they've pulled it up closer,

they clicked through,

but they didn't purchase.

Then maybe you look at okay,

they clicked through.

So my pin had a call to action that got them

to do that action.

But maybe the correlation between the pin design the description and

what's on my sales page,

wasn't connected well enough where they didn't see the need to

purchase or they got confused thinking they weren't on the right

site. So then you go back and start making those small

changes. And there's always going to be a,

if this happened,

then check this out And I can make changes to those

pins. They're not brand new pins.

They're edits to a current pin.

Great question.

I would tell you to create a new pin because in

my opinion,

editing an old pin,

that's already been out there.

That's not bringing in the results you want is not going

to help,

especially with the fact that you have to create fresh content.

So now you're just creating new,

fresh content.

If that means making one tweak,

maybe you didn't have the call to action on the image.

Use that same image,

put the call to action on there and then put it

back up there.

Now, see what happens,

right? It's the same as if you AB tested it,

but you've given it some time to see how the algorithm

picks up and how your audience reacts to the pin that

you shared.

And then should you pull down that other one?

No. I actually have Pins that were from years ago.

They still lead to old blog posts on my site and

I edited the blog posts to say like,

I no longer offer this service,

but it still brings the traffic to my site.

So now they can learn who I am.

I leave them up there.

I've actually had people still contact me for Pinterest services or

my Pinterest course because they found me from a blog post

I did on Facebook lives.

Got it.

Wonderful. This is great,

great information.

And the thing that I want to point out to everybody,

I don't know that you caught it.

So I want to make sure that you understanding is success

on a pin.

Isn't always only sale of the product that you had driven

that person to.

It starts with attracting people on Pinterest to knowing who you

are. It might be that you might be analyzing it based

on the click-throughs and then ultimately the sales,

but all of this starts to happen over time.

Correct? Yeah.

Really important.

You may not have a sale yet,

but your Pinterest strategy,

if you're just starting might be working because you're seeing that

people are coming over to your website.

Absolutely. So,

and sometimes people have to see things more than once.

They're not just automatically going to make a purchase.

They have to start feeling more comfortable with you,

which is also what the stories as the wording of your

pin will help.

Yeah. And the nice thing is with those stories,

like I is Pinterest puts that follow button at the end

of them,

for you.

So then they can start to see more of you in

the start to learn more about what you offer and the

products that you're selling and who you are.

And then finish on to that purchase.

I personally have had things in my cart for weeks.

I mean,

it's not necessarily because I don't trust the person.

It may be because I got distracted with my kids or

I didn't feel the urgency to purchase it right then.

But four days later I was like,

oh yeah,

I still need that.

And I'll go back and purchase it then.

So just make sure I'm so glad that you called that

out when I said it,

because it is a really big part of your strategy,

just make sure you're not focusing your results and your ROI

on only sales,

because it doesn't mean that you are a failure.

If you didn't get that sale,

the first time they clicked,

That is such good information.

It's hard for us not to,

because that seems like the ultimate always,

especially with product based businesses,

of course,

but there's a way to get there.

You just don't jump in on an airplane and all of

a sudden you're there.

You have to fly there first.

Yeah. It's the same type of thing is just tracking.

But this is the path to knowing if your getting to

that sale.

If you're seeing those steps are being taken,

then that's an initial indicator.

I guess that would be a good way to say it.

That what you're doing is going to prove fruitful later.

Absolutely. That you're making progress.

So this has been fabulous.

I would love to just touch quickly on ads.

I know there's probably a lot to ads,

but just share with us what ads mean on Pinterest and

any kind of basic information that you think would be valuable.

Yeah. Advertising on Pinterest.

I mean,

to me,

a blast and a half,

I love that wording.

Perfect. I love it.

I think it's great.

I think you have a lot more potential than some other

platforms that you can do ads with just because of the

targeting piece,

we kind of touched on it when I said like,

look at your analytics and you can find the information about

their interests and their categories that they're searching for on the

platform. So you really are targeting more of their hobbies and

their psychographics than you are their demographics,

which is really fun for us product based business owners,

because we know,

you know,

what their hobbies are for some of our products.

We know what they enjoy doing,

who that type of person really is,

but we might not always have it dialed in like,

are they ages 20 to 50,

right? Because sometimes some people are doing projects when they're retired

and sometimes people are doing projects when they're in high school.

So I love to focus on those categories and interests with

our ads,

because that really is where we can start to target people

specific to what our product actually reaches.

I don't Know where to take this because we'll get too

far into the ad thing here.

I think this is important just to know at this point

that ads are available on Pinterest.

It's a whole different thing,

a comparison between Facebook ads and Pinterest ads,

just as a statement.

Makes sense,

Laura. Yeah.

So I've Actually done an apples to apples ad leading to

the same place using the same image from Facebook and Pinterest.

And I actually saw a greater return for a lesser investment

on my Pinterest ad than I did on Facebook.

And what I will say is I only left it up

for a short amount of time because Facebook optimizes right away,

meaning they will start showing it to the right people right

away. And you can start seeing sales right away.

But with Pinterest ads,

while you can see sales right away and you can get

the traction early for what you want,

it still works like a long term based platform because your

cost per acquisition or money invested into those ads can actually

decrease over time as that pin starts to rank in the

algorithm organically.

And you start to get more in terms of the search.

Okay. So this is really exciting to me and also leads

to some strategy here.

I think it's exciting because you don't continually have to pay

necessarily the same amount to get each of you or you're

saying it goes,

goes down.

But also we need to think of what we're promoting a

little bit differently because it can't just be a weekend promotion.

Like you would maybe do over in Facebook because to get

the full value,

you want something that you would be willing to put on

promotion over the course of time.

Correct. And if it's going to be something like,

I will still promote when I do a masterclass or a

live training or things like that,

but you want to give yourself more time ahead of the

ball game.

So if your product is coming out,

but it hasn't been released,

maybe start your ad to an email lead generation 30 days

before, right.

So that it can optimize and have that time to grow.

But you still have a way to capture the people interested

in purchasing.

If the product's already out there and you're going to do

a sale,

maybe start that ad two weeks before the sale is going

to happen so that they can constantly be thinking about it

and clicking through.

And then when the sale happens,

there'll be like,

oh my gosh,

that's awesome.

So there's just different to think about it.

It is a long-term strategy.

Don't get me wrong.

Facebook can be long-term as well.

I'm not saying don't do Facebook or anything like that.

I'm just saying they work differently in the way that they

optimize. So the strategy can't be the same.

That all goes back to the fact that we're not even

comparing apples to apples,

correct. Yup.

You know,

Facebook, social and Pinterest is search.

Absolutely. But I think the point is really important to be

made here that you don't treat them the same with posting

or advertising.

They're different and they each can serve a different purpose and

are used in different ways.

Whether you even know what those purposes or ways are yet

or not.

Oh, this has been so interesting.

I do have a one more question that I do have

to ask you,

and this did come from the community.

So sure.

I would be in huge trouble if I didn't include this

in, but we're do hashtags play a role if any,

in Pinterest.

Great. So I love hashtags with Pinterest.

It is not the forefront of my strategy is what I

will say.

We have seen Pinterest say no hashtags.

Yes. Hashtags slow down on hashtags.

I mean,

they're kind of all over the board with them.

Really. What I have told people to do is use it

as a filler.

So once you are done telling your story in the description,

if you still have characters left,

find a keyword that you were not able to fit into

a sentence and turn it into a hashtag.

I suggest don't do any more than three to five.

Really first focus on filling up that description as much as

you can with the character limit you're given.

And then if you can't fit another full sentence,

but you can fit a hashtag or two,

go ahead and add them there.

We've seen people who have done like half hashtag half description

and it worked well in the beginning when they brought those

hashtags back in on the platform.

And now they're starting to see a big decrease because they

focused too heavily on it.

Right. So just make sure you have a fluid strategy,

make sure it's a part of your strategy,

but not the biggest part where when they say yes or

no, or maybe you're kind of left out high and dry.

Got It.

Yeah. That makes total sense.

And actually to me,

it's kind of a relief,

you know,

to hear that,

you know,

a couple,

the idea of what you really think describes what you're talking

about, but doesn't fit in naturally to your post wording.

You can just put it as a hashtag.

That's beautiful.

I love that.

And nice and short and sweet three and five,

and then that's done.

Perfect. Yep.

Just make sure they're always relatable.

Like if we're talking about jewelry,

don't go out there and then do a hashtag about gardening.

Just because you think the people that are going to purchase

your jewelry are gardeners.

Right. Make sure they're relatable to what you're actually presenting to

them. You're talking about and what your image is.

Both because those should relate anyway,

obviously together.

So a hundred percent.

Okay. Wonderful.

Well, you are so knowledgeable on Pinterest.

It is just absolutely amazing.

I've learned some things here.

That's the,

one of the perks of being able to talk with you,

where would we send people who want to learn more about

what you Offer?

Yeah. I think the best place for people to start is

Laura wright.com

forward slash jumpstart.

That's going to be the easiest way for you to really

figure out those foundational pieces that you need to start to

get Pinterest working for you.

And then if you're already somebody who's been on the platform

forever, and maybe you're seeing a dip or you're struggling to

create that strategy,

if you just want to follow me on social media or

look at my blogs on my website,

there's a lot of information that we've been putting out recently

to really help with the changes that Pinterest has been making

over the past few months.

Beautiful. So here's a test question for you,

Laura. Yeah.

Are those blog articles linked with pins on Pinterest?

Absolutely. You detain,

you passed.

Yup. They are.

We have Multiple pin images for almost every single one of

them. It's wonderful.

Actually, you following what I'm telling people to do.

So you're not just telling People you're actually walking the walk

as they say incorrect.

Yeah. Everything I teach in my courses actually I've tested myself

either on my account or my client's accounts that allow me

to test.

So it's really fun to be able to have the knowledge,

to say,

look, I've done this,

right? Like I'm not just going out there and saying,

Hey, this is what they say to do.

Like I'm showing you,

I am in the weeds with you guys.

Right. I may not have physical products,

like some of you on this podcast,

but I have digital products as well.

So I am still trudging through everything,

working on my strategy all the time.

I'm right there with you guys.

Wonderful. Perfect.

And where do you see yourself going from here?

Here? You know,

I loved This question and I had so many answers.

I think the biggest thing for me is really everything comes

back to my family and everything I do in my business

is to be able to support them in some way,

whether that's supporting them at taking a day off when they

need me to be home or just hanging out,

right. Like snuggling and things like that.

So my goal that I foresee working towards for my business

is to be able to make enough money that I can

pay myself to be able to purchase a cabin and a

boat for my kids.

We are out here in Minnesota and there's a lot of

activities in the winter time,

but in the summertime,

I really love going fishing with them.

So I want to be able to have my own space

that I can take them during this pandemic and everything that's

going on and just say,

Hey, it's safe here.

Let's have a blast.

And it's somewhere outside of the house.

It feels like a vacation.

So my goal is to be able to serve enough clients

well enough that we build that long lasting relationship so that

I can pay myself enough to purchase a cabin and a

boat for my family.

I feel so good.

I can see it now already.

Yep. I love it.

We Love fishing.

We, our water kids and families it's going to happen.

I'm telling you they will.

Well, You're putting out in the universe right now.

That's how I roll that manifestation thing.

I actually used to run a Salesforce out of Minneapolis,

even though I'm in Chicago.

So I was up in mini once a month for years

and years and years.

And so I know the area well and how beautiful it

is and all the lakes and all of that.

It's gorgeous.

You're absolutely in the right area to make that happen.

That's for sure.

Yup. Absolutely.

And so I actually,

I love manifesting as well.

So I actually talk typically to people like it's already happened.

What is in my cabin?

I know that we have a porch out the back where

I can sit on the chairs and there's a bonfire and

a little beach that the kids can go play on while

we're grilling.

And so I will talk about the actuals of what it's

going to be,

even though I don't even know where it's going to be.

Yeah. But Isn't that crazy how you do that.

And then when it actually is reality,

it's so matches what your vision was.

Yeah. And it's helpful because you feel like you're already there

and it's not a,

how do I get this done?

It's when do I get this done?

Right. You're kind of planning the journey already and there's joy

in just the planning too.

Absolutely. All right.

So is there a Pinterest board on this,

in your personal account?

It is a secret board.

You called me somehow.

I knew the answer to that one.

Yeah. I have A few secret boards.

I am a seller.

So I have a secret board on sewing with my mom.

Oh well,

yeah. So That totally relates to people who are listening here

for sure.

Yeah. Yup.

Wonderful. Well,

Laura, you have been so much fun in addition to sharing

so much information,

we could go on forever,

but I am quite sure that Bailey would like a little

bit of your time fell asleep.

I guess we're going to have to say goodbye,

but again,

thank you.

Thank you so much for coming on today.

I really appreciate it.

No Problem.

Thank you so much for having me.

It was an absolute blast.

Now you can see why I've stopped in tracks and I'm

looking even deeper into Pinterest.

The idea of posting content that will be used into the

future is super appealing to me.

Of course,

I'll still be on other social media sites too,

but the investment of time and energy here is well worth

it for me.

And for you,

make sure to catch the show next Monday,

where we'll be talking with a handmade product business owner,

who's changed her target market and is now reaping the rewards

of that change.

She'll share the why and the how behind making this happen.

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