213 – [On Air Coaching] How to Uncover and Market to New Audiences with Elaine Kuckertz

You're listening to gift biz unwrapped episode 213 I wonder if

I need to start smaller and just build up from there

and get my confidence up so that I don't get in

my own way.

Attention gifters,

bakers, crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one

now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources and the support you need to grow your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hi there,

it's Sue and I.

I am so happy to be here today and also have

you joining me.

It feels great to be back behind the mic again if

you've been following me.

You know that I have been gone for the last three

weeks. My husband and I took a trip over to Africa.

We went through South Africa,

Zimbabwe and Botswana and Oh my gosh,

you guys.

The animals are spectacular.

We had lots and lots of close encounters of the big

five and more.

The people were amazing.

Their lifestyle is Oh so different than ours.

And if you follow me on Instagram stories,

you already know everything because I was sharing it as much

as I could when we had wifi access.

That is,

but now that I'm back in the office behind the mic,

number one,

it feels so great to be back.

And number two,

that world feels a lifetime away just in terms of where

they are in terms of their culture and how they live

their daily lives.

And I feel very fortunate to be able to have been

there and experienced the people and the animals,

et cetera.

I'm kind of thinking I might do a podcast about it

because there are a lot of learnings that I got kind

of reemphasizing good business point,

but having nothing to do related to business.

So it's kind of interesting.

I'm still kind of battling in my head whether I'm going

to do that or not.

So you might see a little bit of a different episode

coming up in the future.

You know how it is when you're out of your regular

environment. Everything looks a little bit different.

And I encourage all of you too.

I mean,

you might not be as elaborate as going on a vacation

to Africa,

but even just getting out of your current work environment opens

up new opportunities and makes your brain think a little bit

differently. So I,

for one,

I always remember this when I get back from vacation and

then I get into the swing of things and never do

it. But I'm really gonna make a concerted effort to get

out of the office more and walk around and be in

other environments because it brings up all these different and new

creative ideas.

But the one thing I have to tell you,

shutting down the whole Africa topic is I'm so happy to

be back.

And it just reinforced to me how much I love what

I'm doing,

how much I love working with all of you,

sharing information about makers who are doing some amazing things out

here and helping you along the way as you're growing your

businesses. So it's very fulfilling to know that I missed it

so much and I'm so happy to be back.

Let's jump right into a couple of announcements that I have

for you.

First off,

if you're not part of the gift biz breeze Facebook group,

this is our community where we all work together and help

each other grow our businesses.

If you're not already there,

jump in right away because I have a post sitting there

that talks about mother's day.

Although the group is not one of the groups where people

are promoting themselves.

This is not a salesy group.

This is a group where we really want to help encourage

each other,

provide solutions,

advice, direction for people to grow their businesses.

But there are times when I do want people to promote

their businesses because we can all support each other in some

cases financially as well.

And there's a thread in there right now about mother's day

and the promotions that people have up for mother's day.

If you join now,

you can jump right in.

You can add your mother's day promotion to that post and

potentially pick up a new customer or to my second announcement

is now that I'm back,

I'm not just easing into business calmly and lightly,

but I have some big things going on the end of

this month.

I have a new master class that I'm going to be

announcing and it's unlike any that I've done before.

The details will be coming in next week's podcast and if

you're part of our newsletter you'll also see it in an

email and I'll be running ads to it as well.

It's going to be big and I don't want you to

miss it.

There's a lot of information about this industry that you may

not know as much about or I'm approaching this from a

different angle that I think you'll find very interesting,

so keep your eyes open for that and meanwhile I'm going

to be back here busily getting everything put together,

everything ready and prepared for this new masterclass that's coming out

later this month.

Enough on that for now.

Let's talk about our guests today.

Elaine has a full time job and is also looking at

building her business on the side.

Probably very similar to a lot of you who are listening.

She has an amazing product and I'm not going to go

into it right now because she's going to describe it for

us in detail,

but from my vantage point I see some huge opportunities for

her. Her style is so unique that I see an opportunity

for her to recreate and redefine a style that she can

name and claim as her own.

That might not make a whole lot of sense right now,

but we get into it.

I think you'll understand and this could be huge for her

and her business,

a definite differentiator for her.

We also talked about a number of different types of industries

that she hadn't been considering before that could be perfect for

her product and again,

break the opportunities that she has in front of her wide

open. I see so much potential with what Elaine's doing,

her product and her spirit and her drive and how she

talks about her business,

that I'm really,

really looking forward to what she's doing in the future.

Additionally, and one thing I also really want you to listen

in for is she analyzes how craft shows have performed for

her. She's done different types and different levels of shows and

she's very good at analyzing what's happening in there,

which shows are the right ones for her,

how to create her booth so that she gets optimal customer

interaction and potential sales,

all of that.

So I think that will be a very interesting portion of

this podcast for you as well.

So without me rambling on and on,

it's time for my on air coaching call with Elaine.

Elaine cook grits is a trained visual artist and makes paintings

as well as smaller craft works.

Currently she seen success selling painted laser cut puzzles.

These are smaller,

more tactile versions of her paintings.

Elaine loves working with bright colors and making cheerful pieces that

bring people joy.

She's excited about the possibility of spending more time doing what

she's passionate about so she's focusing on making her business more

profitable. Elaine,

welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcast.

Thank you.

I'm glad to be here.

I was thrilled to see your name on an application to

be one of our on-air coaching calls and I cannot wait

to dive into your business.

We're going to start out in the way that I always

do and that is by having you describe yourself through a

motivational candle.

So if you were to share with me what color your

candle would be and what a quote would be that would

really resonate with you,

what would your candle look like?

So I was thinking about this and I'm actually not a

huge candle person,

so I was thinking about this and I think my candle

would be more of a candle holder that would have little

cutouts in it that would cast interesting shadows on the wall

or the table or whatever it's laying on just to get

people to kind of look at it differently.

I think a lot of people when they respond to my

work are like,

wow, that's interesting.

I never thought of that or I haven't seen things done

this way.

So just to get people to think differently about what they're

seeing. And then my quote would be more of a mantra

than a quote.

It would just be be calm or also don't freak out.

I think it's really easy to get frustrated with setbacks and

if you just go with the flow and don't fight it,

you'll be a lot better off.

So that would be my motivational candle or candle holder.

Perfect. And I just love that idea of just staying calm,

dealing with whatever it is,

because you probably come up with better resolution anyway and you

don't give yourself a heart attack.

Exactly. Yeah.

So let's dive right into your business.

Elaine. Share with us a little bit how you got started.

I know that being a visual artist is something that you've

done for a long time.

So take us back to when you found that passion and

how that's evolved now into your business.

Perfect. So I started making art in college.

So I have a degree in visual art from Brown and

I've always been kind of an artist.

I've always made drawings and stuff,

but once I decided to declare that major,

that was when I really thought of myself as an artist.

So I've been out of school for about six years now,

so my business or art practice has taken a lot of

different forms since then.

I've moved around a lot since graduating,

so when I first graduated,

I really had this vision of like very traditional art making,

making paintings,

selling them in a gallery,

things like that.

And then as time happened and I moved around a lot,

didn't necessarily have the studio space to make those big paintings.

My practice evolved a little bit too,

so I started making some digital works.

I use apps like procreate and art studio for iPad to

make these digital drawings and paintings.

And so I've started printing them on cards.

The biggest thing that I've done recently that I think is

probably my most unique selling point would be these puzzles that

I make.

So they're very similar to the paintings that I make.

They're these little interlocking shapes and it's like a two-tone item.

I think it would be best if we had a photo,

but they're very unique.

I've sold them at craft shows and things like that.

And the feedback that I always get from people is like,

wow, I've never seen this before.

At this point in time,

I feel like that's my most unique items.

They're easy to sell to just because they're a much lower

price point than a painting and they're easier to make.

I live in Washington D C now,

and I haven't found that studio space to make big paintings

or paint with oils.

So it's been a lot easier for me to make these

smaller scale items and sell them on Etsy and craft fairs

and things like that in my current state of mind.

So my business is always evolving,

but I think that that's kind of where I'm at right

now is smaller items that sell easily and we'll kind of

see where it goes year to year.

Right. And so you've got puzzles and you've got the greeting

cards, right?

Those are the two items currently,

Yes, and I do have some paintings in my inventory that

I can also sell,

but I am a little bit confused as to where would

be a good place to sell those.

So I would say those three things.

Greeting cards,

puzzles, paintings And the paintings.

The Same style of art as your puzzle?

Yes, for the most part there are these interlocking shapes.

They're cut holes into painted canvas and then underneath it is

a stitch quilt.

So it's this two layer painting.

I'm always interested in ways to combine craft work and sewing

with more traditional painting.

Okay. This is important and I didn't get this as I

was looking at your website and your Etsy site,

and this is a good question because I was looking at

the puzzle and some of them,

when the pieces come out,

there is a design underneath and you're saying that a quilt

For the puzzles,

there's no quilts underneath.

But if you look at my Etsy shop,

the in the cover photo,

there's like a bluish purple painting with red and that red

layer underneath that's quilted fabric,

Quilted fabric.

Okay. Got it.

That's very unique.

So your whole style really is something I've never seen before,

which is a huge opportunity for you and give biz listeners

just so you can follow along on the show notes page

will be links to Elaine site,

both our Etsy site and her website.

So you can take a look and understand what we're relating

back to and talking about.

So your three products,

your paintings,

your puzzles,

and your greeting cards all have the same feel to them?

Correct? Yes.

Perfect. Okay.

So in our intro information you gave me a lot of

different avenues of concern.

So let's get into that in a second.

But before we do that,

how does this business relate to your overall life right now?

Yeah, great question.

So I work full time in marketing.

So this at the moment I would classify as a side

hustle. So typically my job is going to take priority.

So I think for me the challenge that I face is

that I don't think that a lot of the,

like the ideas that I have for the site and I

probably, the recommendations that you'll make are especially difficult.

I think it's just a matter of time management and prioritizing

what's going to be most impactful.

So that's been a really big struggle for me.

Just making the time when it's not the holidays,

when there aren't as many craft markets to really hammer in

on my goals.

Okay. And we're going to get to that for sure.

But back to your current position,

what types of skills do you have from your marketing job

that you see will transfer over to your business?

So I work as an SEO specialist.

So I currently work at an agency,

so I optimize websites for a list of clients.

I do think that there's overlap between what I do at

work and what I can do to optimize my website.

I think sometimes there's a blind spot when you're promoting yourself,

I think you miss opportunities.

So it's really easy for me to identify opportunities on other

people's sites.

Sometimes I look at my own site,

I get stuck.

It's so true.

No matter what we do,

it's hard for us to turn the mirror bound and do

it for ourselves.

I see it all the time.

I'm guilty of it myself,

so I totally agree with you there.

But being an SEO specialist is a great opportunity for you

as you move forward and enhance and even if some people

have to say,

Hey, you know,

Elaine, are you doing this for yourself?

You at least know and understand all the applications behind SEO,

which is great.

Let's talk a little bit more about what you've seen at

the craft shows.

Tell me more about how your booth was set up and

what you're seeing in terms of the interaction.

You talked a little bit about it already,

but the interaction and the feedback that you were getting from

customers at craft shows.

Yeah, so I've done a handful of craft shows.

They've all been around the holidays and I found that the

craft shows that are a little bit more focused on visual

arts are more successful for me.

And I think it's because when you go to a craft

fair that's a little bit more art focused,

people are expecting to spend a little bit more money.

They're expecting something unique and handmade.

I did a popup market at a beer garden here in

DC and I definitely sold some work,

but I think people had a harder time with the price

points of my puzzles.

So the way my booth was set up,

the ones that I've done this past Christmas,

cards. I didn't bring any paintings because it was too much

to carry them,

but also it seems like those are harder to sell,

just sight unseen.

So I focused on the smaller dollar,

but more of my inventory and I think that was the

right move for these types of venues.

Did you see that puzzles were moving more than cards?

Yes, I did this season.

I really didn't sell that many cards.

It was mostly puzzles and I think it's because I set

them out kind of in a line where people could actually

interact with them and play with them before purchasing them.

And I think the cards,

I mean cards are,

they're just a lot more available,

so it's not as much of a unique item as a

puzzle that people haven't seen before.

So I think allowing people to interact with them and then

the fact that they're more unique really helped move those more

quickly. Right.

It's hard to tell online,

but how big is a puzzle?

The ones I currently have are eight by 10 inches,

but I can do pretty much any size.

I actually designed a puzzle guest book for my sister's wedding

this past year and that was about 18 inches by 24

so that may be an area that I expand into is

more custom puzzles,

things that people can write on and interact with a little

bit more.

Okay. I actually liked the fact that it's smaller because it's

really portable then and you're seeing that a lot of people

are interacting with it by way of your experiences.

At the booth.

Are you seeing that people,

there are a certain type of people who are coming in

buying a certain age group or have they said anything about

like certain people that they're buying for?

No, and that's where it gets a little bit confusing to

me because I've definitely read a lot about picking your ideal

collector or customer and for the puzzles they really,

it seemed like they went for everyone.

So I had one guy,

he was a middle aged guy who was like,

I'm buying this for my elderly mother so that she can

have something to fiddle with during the day.

I also have,

they're really popular with kids,

like kids who are like the six to middle school age.

I would say they love to come by and just like

play with the puzzles.

So and then I also have like 20 somethings who come

over and are like,

this is cool for my coffee table.

I think it would be really neat to have.

So so far I haven't really identified any one in particular.

I think the only uniting factor for me is people who

know me or people who came to my booth and are

probably interested in arts and crafts.

Okay, so one thing I want to say right here,

because I don't want to forget,

I'm taking notes while you're talking any lane,

but one thing I wanted to say because it'll be easier

just to say it right here instead is you're already getting

some really valuable information in terms of how to market.

So when someone is saying they're interested in it for their

elderly mother,

that's a marketing approach.

So that's something you could use when you're talking about your

product to certain groups of people.

Same thing with four twenties or thirties coffee table puzzle.

Yeah. When people are hanging out and they're having a beer

or when you're drinking,

whatever, just to pull it up and interact with it,

write down these things that people are saying because it's great

for Instagram quotes,

Instagram photos even.

Okay. Because then you're starting to target the different audiences and

then you can also pick up the conversation.

Like if some kids are coming by and then their mothers

eventually follow them over,

you can say,

yeah, kids are really loving this.

It's something they get to do after their homework or whatever

the story is.

But capturing the information from your current customer is so valuable

and you're already doing it.

Cause you just told me about a couple.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

That's absolutely true.

Thank you.

Yeah. So do you have some more craft shows coming up?

The fine art?

No, I don't.

So that's kind of,

I would say a challenge is getting myself on a better

schedule because I tend to push everything into the holiday season

and there's obviously more opportunity throughout the year.

So just getting myself on a better schedule there.

Yeah. Well whatever fits into your schedule and you're going out

to craft shows,

again, think about capturing more information from people as they're coming

by to like get into a conversation when someone's buying.

Oh, I'm so glad.

This is one of my favorite ones.

I love these colors.

What are you thinking about with this puzzle?

Is it for you?

Is it for someone else?

And continue to pull in information from them cause then it'll

help you get really clear on not only your customers but

what their uses are.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I would definitely do that.

So clearly Elaine,

it's going to take a little longer to grow because you

have a full time job,

but that's fabulous also because you're not in a position where

you're super stressed out about,

I have to be making money right this second,

right? Yes.

So you can think that you can kind of put it

on a scale and there's pros and cons to it,

but I think it's really more a pro because you can

be more strategic.

You can go steady.

You don't have to have the pressure of feeling like,

dang, I got to get this out there and I've got

to land it right away.

Get has to be perfect right away cause I need that

money. Because when people do that,

then they get kind of a little too eager,

almost looking needy almost.

They're not saying these words,

but please buy this.

Please buy this where that's not the case for you.

Yes, but it does clearly mean that you'll need to go

slower because you have a job with benefits and now that

I'm quite sure,

so you want that in your life and it's okay to

go slower.

So have a little grace with yourself about that.

But when you start talking about,

well, I don't have the next craft show coming up,

but I should well yet you'll want to get that scheduled

in somewhere if that's the Avenue you're taking.

But it's okay because you're balancing two things at one time,

right? Yes.

Oh, I was going to say one other thing about the

craft shows that you've done so far since you're saying that

they were always around the holidays.

Your cards aren't holiday specific in terms of greetings.

So that might have been a reason why people weren't buying.

Because in holidays people are thinking Christmas cards throughout the year.

People are thinking birthday cards and other,

so it'd be interesting to know when you do another show,

if it's not holiday season,

if your cards move faster.

That's a good point.

Yeah. So just something to consider there,

but let's stay focused for right this second on your puzzles

because they are so unique and so cool.

Are you feeling good about your price point?

Mostly yes.

So right now on my Etsy shop,

they're 40 I've gotten a lot of feedback on the pricing

from people and when I was at,

I did a show called wham winter holiday art market when

I was living in Houston and that's a very art focused

market and I had people telling me they were being sold

for 50 at that fair and they were like,

that is way too low.

You should sell these for more,

that's great.

But then when I did the wonder garden,

that was the beer garden market here in DC,

I had people who I lowered the prices just because they

were really moving there.

I lowered them to 30 and I still got pushback from

people on that being too much.

So I think that probably indicates that it's about right at

40 to 50 but obviously if there's any special features on

them, if they're custom,

if any of the coloring requires more effort than I'm going

to raise that price to reflect that.

But I think it's okay.

Unless you have some different thoughts on that.

How do you feel about the breakout?

You know,

how much it costs you to make one of those puzzles,

right? Yeah.

Okay. And you,

I'm thinking at this point you're not having to redesign cause

each of the puzzles,

the cut out basic is the same,

right? Yes.

Are you hand-making each of these or you're having it done

somehow? They are laser cut.

So I work with a studio in Houston called post studio

projects. They will ship to me here in D C so

when I was in Houston I could go and pick them

up. But now they can actually send it my way.

So what I've been doing recently is I'll send that they

have the drawings.

So whenever I'm ready for a new order I just ask

them to redo it.

They print it for me.

And quote it and then send it to me.

Okay. So then when you look at your pricing,

so when you look at your $40,

make sure you have the cost of what that product is

per puzzle.

So all of those laser cuts,

I'm not sure how it comes together with the fabric in

the back or if there's a different fabric.

Do you do that then or does it come to you

finished? I'm just going to clarify here really quickly.

So the puzzles don't have any fabric in them.

Those are laser cut.

They're wood laser cut.

And then the paintings that I make are actually hand cut.

So I'll cut into canvas,

which is going to be more fabric.

Easier to cut.

Just to clarify the difference between those two.

Okay. But you do have some hands on work that needs

to be done to create the puzzle.

Yeah. So once I get the puzzle,

the top and the backing,

there's some assembly,

there's some painting at the tops of it.

So yes,

there is.

In addition to the cost of the base materials and the

printing, there is going to be that labor element to it.

Okay. All right,

perfect. So it'll be good for you if you haven't already,

just to confirm,

especially now that you've changed locations because you now have an

added cost of getting that shipped to you cause that's part

of the cost of your product.

So getting it laser cart,

the shipping to you and then your time for assembly and

all of that.

And then some type of margin on top of that,

which is your profit.

Okay. Don't add together the cost of your time and margin

together. So you'd put in whatever the quote was to get

all the laser done,

the shipping to you,

and then by our calculate how much time it takes you

per puzzle.

And maybe it's only a portion of an hour,

I'm not sure.

And then assign some type of labor charge to that.

You might say your time is worth $50 an hour.

I don't know how technical it is,

what you have to do when you grow.

And if you end up having people do that for you

because you're just sending out so many puzzles,

your labor charge will go down because you're able to hire

people less expensively than you would hire yourself as the artist.

Yes. If that makes sense.

So let's just say it took an hour just to be

really super easy.

And let's say you valued your talent at 50 okay.

I don't know if that's lower high,

but let's just say 50 which would be way high because

then you're already over the price of your product.

So that's probably a bad example.

But then even on top of that,

then you have some type of margin you want to build

in. Yeah,

that's a great point.

So let's back that up and let's say it took you

15 minutes to put one together.

Okay. And your or 10 minutes,

that'll be even easier.

So 10 minutes,

that means your cost is $10 an hour of your labor

product, time shipping,

and then some type of margin on top of that.

So as long as all of that can fit comfortably into

your $40 that's good.

But you need to know what that number is.

Okay. I kind of backed into it.

Does that make sense,

Elaine? It does.

I think my question then is I think I'm afraid to

raise it because I'm afraid that if I raise it too

high, then people won't buy it.

So do you have any advice for that?

Where are you looking at going overall for the business?

What is your goal?

Like if you were to say,

okay, this business is a success,

what does that look like?

And you couldn't dream big.

It's okay to dream big.

Like where would you want to take this?

I probably need to spend some more time on that because

I think I do like the idea of dreaming big and

I think sometimes I get caught up in,

okay, well if I want to take in like let's say

that for this business I want to take in $10,000

a month in profits.

I think where I'm getting stuck on that is I think

I get freaked out by like,

Oh my gosh,

if I need to hit 10,000

a month,

I have to sell like thousands of puzzles or I need

to sell like one really large painting to cover that cost.

So I think where I'm having a hard time just even

creating those larger goals is getting hung up on the day

to day.

Like, Oh my gosh,

I need to sell this many puzzles.

And I think I sometimes get in my own way of

being like,

Oh no,

I don't have time for that.

So I wonder if I need to start smaller and just

build up from there and get my confidence up so that

I don't get in my own way.

Yeah, I mean you absolutely do want to start smaller and

to the point that you're balancing this with something else,

but what it sounds like you're saying to me is that

because not everybody wants that.

Elaine and I'll share a quick story in a second,

but you might have said to me,

no, I want hands on to my products all the time.

I don't need to make a lot.

I want to be able to have some extra money on

the side because I also really like my full time job.

That's all I want for the business and that would be

perfectly fine.

So when I say dream big,

it's like don't limit to what you can think of today.

But what I think I just heard you saying,

and you may want to give this some more thought is

yeah, I would like to make this as big as it

could be and sell as many puzzles as I possibly can,

which then makes your business ultimately later look totally different.

You'll have to have people working for you.

Right. Which way do you think you're going more hands on

or you'd like to see if this can explode and be

as big as it could be?

I definitely want to think big and I definitely want to

sell a lot of these.

I think that they're unique and I believe in what I'm

making here.

I'm just not sure what the future holds yet,

so I'm not sure what the answer to that is.

It's still kind of being resolved over time.

Okay. And it's more to be used as directional versus making

every single decision off of that because obviously things change.

Your life might change,

you might move again,

which means your costs might change,

your job might change like all of that,

but it's nice to have a feel for where at this

point in time you believe you're going and the reason I

wanted to get into that conversation is then in regard to

pricing, one thing you could do is go back to the

people who are doing the laser cutting for you and say,

okay, I know what my price is right now for this

volume. If I were to ever go to this volume,

how does my price change?

Because then when you look at the formula we just outlined,

even though you might not be making those types of margins

now, you'll understand that based on the $40 price you have

right now,

when you get to X amount in volume,

you will be making that margin because your costs have gone

down. Okay?

So that's why,

and that's a little plain with the numbers and working a

little bit underneath your pricing.

So something to think about and consider moving forward.

Now I just want to make comment,

and Elaine,

I told you when we first started talking that I wanted

us to forget that there was a whole audience here because

I really want this to be for you.

People get to listen in and maybe they can apply it

to their business,

but I want it to be for you.

However, I also want to make mention that,

and this is for everybody.

Success of your business does not mean you always have to

be huge.

I had somebody just yesterday message me and she is doing

a fabulous business,

but she's like,

what if I don't want like have you written a blog

article or is there any information about what if I don't

want to be bigger?

What if I love what I'm doing right now?

I don't want to build a website and sell online.

She's making an income for herself and her husband through craft

shows and everyone's telling her she should be bigger.

There are people coming to her wanting to produce her products.

And she's like,

I don't know that I want that.

Because your life really changes.

You change from being hands on with your product,

interacting with customers to then working with employees and working with

factories, like your job changes.

So it's something to think about as you move forward if

you really want it or not.

And my advice to her was,

no, if you think you're gonna grow yourself out of loving

your business,

that's terrible.

Then you got chains because you're making money with your business

but you don't even like it anymore.

So it is something to think about.

And that was also the reason why I'd asked you that

question, Elaine.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, alright,

so back to it.

Any questions so far with all of this?

I think I'm okay for now.

Okay. So I have to say I see a huge opportunity

and idea for you.

Are you familiar with the artist Sonya paths?

No, I don't think so.

Okay. So Google her,

she was on my show recently.

It's S O N.

Y. A.

P. A.

Z. Okay.

I hear you typing over there.

Did you just put it into your computer or something?

I did.

Okay. Pull her up.

She has a very unique style.

She's pretty well known artist.

She's from the San Jose area.

I see her stuff in airports like I've known about her

style and her art for years and finally had the opportunity

to get connected with her and know her,

but she has a very unique style and any time you

see any product with that style,

you automatically know it's hers.

It's like obvious.

That's kind of how it is with Lilly Pulitzer and some

of these other brands that have a style as something that's

very unique.

You already have this with what you're creating.

I've never seen a style like this before and this is

a huge opportunity for you.

Did you pull her up so you can kind of see

her style?

Yeah, I definitely feel like it's very bright,

very fun.

I see what you're saying about,

I think it's one of those things where you can tell

right away that it's hers And I think the same thing

can happen for yours.

I'm not suggesting you go into key chains and mugs and

like all the stuff that she's doing.

Maybe, maybe sometime,

but I think your style is so unique that you should

play off of that in a way you already are because

you're saying that your paintings are the same style as your

puzzles are as your cards are,

but now I think you should make a rate of name,

like name your style,

if that makes sense.

Yeah, and I'm not good at creative names,

but something where you would be known for this imagery no

matter what medium it's on right now it's puzzles and I

think that's what you really get known for,

especially right off the bat,

but you are the founder of this style of art or

the only person of this style,

but have a name for it and that could even be

the name of your company.

Yeah, especially for like the more product oriented items,

like the original paintings I almost see as a separate entity.

Then the puzzles and the cards,

they're just different in my mind in terms of what they

are. So yeah,

So I could see that like naming the style and then

transferring that into a business name.

Yeah, it could be.

I mean like I think this could be so big because

then what happens is you bring that over into your marketing,

what you put on your website,

and maybe it's not the business name,

maybe it stays your name,

but creator of X style or somehow you would put,

if you can find a real fun name,

I think you need to gather like a group of your

friends together and just brainstorm fun names or something,

something really catchy,

totally relatable,

some type of a name,

because then that could go through all of your marketing,

all of your social media,

because that's how you get,

and if you look and see a little bit what Sonia

is doing,

you'll see that her style is everywhere.

Okay. So that's just,

I think,

a huge potential opportunity for you.

So does she name her style or is that she calls

it a certain type of art.

I don't know that she's named her style.

Okay. Per company is her name.

But just look at it and see,

and I'm just feeling like you could be really catchy for

you or you name your puzzle something.

I'm not exactly sure cause like I said,

that is not my area of expertise.

Being creative with names.

I freeze.

But I wanted to put that out there as an idea

for you.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Now the other thing that I know is,

so we've talked about your pricing of your product just to

make sure you're feeling comfortable with it and even if you're

not making a lot of margin,

now do a little research to figure out where that turn

point would be in terms of volume,

where your prices would drop,

where you are making money.

Okay. Cause at some point,

unless you want to do this just as a hobby,

you want to be making money and you can't just do

it and say well your time that you put in equates

to your margin because the more product you sell,

the more time you're going to put in and then you're

going to have no life.

Yeah. Right.

So look through all of that.

And like I said,

even if you're feeling based on your feedback,

and I think your methodology is sound that that's the price

point. At least for the time being,

because when the puzzle's become more in demand than you can

raise the price too,

right? Yeah.

But as long as you feel you have a good plan

for that price,

then I think let's just go with it.

Even if you're not making as much profit as you'd want

because you see the future and the ability to get there

to the margins you like down the road.

Yeah, I think that makes complete sense.

Okay, so now let's talk about your audiences you've already defined,

which I think is fabulous that you are better in terms

of selling your product and you're attracting the right audience when

you go to more fine art type shows.

Yes. Yeah,

and that makes sense because when you say a puzzle,

puzzles can be 99 cents,

right? Yeah.

Not with your materials and all of that,

and I'm not your product,

but so the mindset at a farmer's market type show is

more, Oh,

I'm going to buy something for less expensive.

Two three bucks,

five bucks,

I'm going to get some recycled something.

That type of thing.

But I think the mentality of a fine art show,

just like what you're seeing is a higher price point,

so you're attracting people who number one are going to probably

have a quality of style that's different that relates more to

your product and are going with the mindset to that show

to spend more.

Yes, so that's perfect.

We were talking a little bit earlier about getting wording and

ideas from customers about how they use your product.

Before we jumped on the call,

I was trying to think of other less thought of audiences

who could use your product.

Like I'm wondering physical therapy.

Yeah. I don't know if I say relearn how to use

their hand or like they've had some type of a movement

thing if your puzzles,

I don't know if they're too small and intricate or not,

but I'm wondering if that could be a potential audience for

you. Also schools,

so I would suggest you think outside the box a little

bit. Not to go after all these audiences at once,

but just to start making a list of boy who else

could be potential besides just selling to a general customer base.

Cause one of those alone,

let's say it was physical therapists,

they started having one puzzle or two puzzles in their locations.

How many physical therapists are there in the world?

You know,

if you got 2% of them,

that could be an interesting way to target market.

Yeah, I really liked that idea at the school thing really

rings true for me because I've heard that from people before

where that was another,

I guess customer profile is at least one teacher,

at least one physical therapist has been like,

yeah, this would be great for my students.

I'm going to try and put this in my classroom.

So yeah,

I think that's a really great point.

So just kind of start making yourself a list of different

industries and then what you would do the,

Oh, another industry that I was thinking is senior centers.

Some seniors might be able to use it,

but so could visitors,

you know who are there.

The person they're visiting isn't as interactive so it gives them

something else to do while they're spending quiet time with somebody.

Yeah, I liked that a lot.

And these are all again things when you start talking with

people in the craft shows,

you might even pick up more ideas.

So just start keeping running lists of all of those.

Yeah. And once you have your list then like don't get

overwhelmed, just start saying okay I like this idea of the

schools or the physical therapist or whichever one and just take

one at a time and start seeing if,

if you start to get some traction you don't have to

address all of them at one time.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Take it chunk by chunk or industry by industry.

Yeah, cause then you can really focus.

You also get to know more about the industries to see

where they could use it or not use it.

And one way to decide which ones to do first is

where do you have ins in the industry.

If you know people,

if some of your friends teach at schools or are physical

therapists, then those would be great places to start because you

already have the end.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

I know that that's always something that I hear is like

kind of work within that work that you have,

but I certainly know teachers,

I certainly know people at hospitals.

So yeah,

that's a really good point.

And then also you might be able with those,

I don't know so much about hospitals,

I guess it just depends.

But you could also then get some pictures of people interacting

with the puzzles or whatever the reason is.

Then it's for a medical purpose,

so you might be able to get some of that.

And that's all good information for your website.

So often hard for other people to think of the way

to use your product.

You have to tell them,

Yeah. You know,

it seems obvious to you cause you're around it all the

time, but it's not as obvious.

We have to be told that's just like online when you

have to say,

click this button to enter.

Right. No,

just same type of thing.

Yeah. Okay.

Boy, I have so much to talk about with you.

Let's just talk about two other things I think as I'm

looking at the time here,

social media,

your Instagram account.

Talk to me a little bit about that.

Yeah, so Instagram I would say is probably my primary place

for advertising my work.

I also have a Facebook page.

Obviously Facebook,

Instagram are the same company,

so you have to have them linked up to get the

business account,

so I have that.

I think there's probably more that I can do there.

Especially what you've been kind of talking about in terms of

showing my products being used and things like that.

I think maybe where I'm stuck right now is I feel

like some of my photos are not that great of quality,

so I've really been trying to work with what I have

and come out with some nicer photos,

but I don't think I'm 100% there yet.

Okay. Let's talk about the photos real quick.

Are you near a school?

Because I'm wondering if you could get somebody like an intern

where you don't have to pay them,

but you reciprocate by giving a review or write up at

the end of their work that they can use for college

application, something like that.

But someone who is in the photography department or the marketing

department who has an expertise with photos,

cause that could be an easy way and cost-free Like a

university or university City or a high school.

Okay. Because they then they worked with you.

This is the brand,

this is the online,

you know,

they have all of that.

Then they could point to as they're doing college applications,

if they're pursuing that as they move forward or just extracurricular

of things that they've done.

Yeah, that's an interesting thought.

Yeah. I guess I hadn't thought of that before.

Just an idea for your photography,

but I want to stay on your Instagram account real quick.

What is your Instagram account?

I think it's just my name.

Elaine cooker.

Okay, so that's the only account you have right on Instagram?

Correct. Okay,

so I went over and I looked at the account.

Just an idea for you.

When I went over to that account,

I wasn't really sure what you did cause you have personal

on there even though you turned it into a business account.

I think you also link in your intro to your cute

little puppy.

I love that.

Yes, but I had done the same thing.

I did the same thing when I first started on Instagram.

I would suggest to you to leave that as a personal

account and make a professional business account for each account.

You need a separate email so you would need to have

access to another email but make an account that's just your

brand only so that when people come to it,

they see all this imagery.

Like they see you at a craft show,

they see these people coming up and playing with the puzzles

at the show,

right? Like all these pictures that you can do and that

helps solidified your design style.

And that may be where you do Elaine cooker,

it's arts or Elaine cooker it.

And then if you do define your design style,

something like that.

But that way it becomes very clear.

And then when people land on the account,

they really understand what you stand for and what you are.

So do you think that it would make sense to create

a new personal one or a new business one?

And I asked that because you know I have built up

a following over time.

And so I guess the question is do I preserve my

current account as the business account with all the built up

audience and things like that or should I start fresh and

just rebuild that?

You can do a couple of things and I speak from

experience because I did this two ways to do this.

What I did is I changed my personal account or what

is my name back to a personal account.

So I rotated it back cause you can only have one

business account.

And then I direct people to my business account from my

personal account.

Well I actually have three accounts but I don't use them

all because that's just super confusing.

Yeah. So that's one option is just cause if you want

Instagram, if you want to connect,

um, I forget your dog's name.

But if you want to have that as part of your

thing, that's probably better on personal.

And it doesn't mean that you don't ever put your art

on personal too,

but your business should be totally a hundred percent your business

with a little personal.

So when someone goes to the account,

they get it,

they understand totally what you're doing.

Okay. So there's two ways to do this.

One way would be convert what you have back to your

personal and then create another account that's a business account.

And the reason you want to turn on the business as

you know,

is you can get all of the analytics underneath,

right? And then I'd have in your bio something your business

and then you can do the link tree like you're doing

and, and your imagery would be so that when someone lands

on it,

they know exactly what's going on.

And then if you do that,

then you can tell people over on your personal,

Hey, I started a new business specific account.

Make sure to follow me over there too.

Right. Something like that.

Yeah. My guess is that there's a lot of people on

your current account who are there because they know you and

they're friends with you and they're not all business either,

so you won't get everybody over to the new account.

Yeah. You know,

you know that,

but I found it was a smart way to do it

because I also keep it cleaner,

but then I have both the other way to do it.

If you like having the social proof of your number of

how many followers you have,

then just start now putting more business in.

Yeah, and making it heavier weighted to business.

Yeah. I think that's a really good point because I have

definitely especially more recently added more personal content on there and

I think you're correct that it may confuse people.

I think my feeling is that,

especially for like an artist,

I think some personal content makes sense when it's strategic.

But I think I understand what you're saying is that for

a new user looking at my page,

they might not really know that it's geared towards a business.

It may just look like a personal account,

Right? Or they're saying,

Oh well she's just doing this on the side.

Right? It's just like a fun little side thing versus more

of a very targeted,

strategically specific business.

Yeah, that's a great point.

Sell. And you could go either way with that.

And the other thing is,

you know,

I haven't looked at anything over on Facebook,

but to keep trust with a customer,

especially if you agree that with the thought of really starting

to get people to relate you to your beautiful style is

that they need to be able to see that on every

single platform they land on.

So if they see you at a craft show and they're

like, Oh my gosh,

I want to see what all she has and they go

to your website or Facebook page or Instagram,

they need to be seen something similar there because that trust

issue. Yeah.

And if they don't see something kind of similar,

it doesn't have to be copycat.

Right. But if they don't see the same feel with the

same style and the same design,

even if they don't think it in their head subconsciously,

it's like,

wait a minute,

something's not fitting together anymore.

Yeah. So I just wanted to make mention of that on

your website.

Same thing,

but you want almost front and center your style and who

you are.

Yeah. And think of when you do and are looking at

your website and thinking about your website,

why would people be going there and what are they looking

for? They're probably going to understand more about you.

This would be a great place as you develop different audiences,

physical therapy,

schools, coffee tables like that to be able to put the

different, different ways people are using it.

Because people like to see anywhere really people like to see

what's in it for them versus telling people this is what

I do,

this is how it is.

This is how I learned.

This is why do I care about that?

I care because I want one of those on my coffee

table or Oh man,

you know my dad's in physical therapy,

I'm going to get him one of these cause this could

be great for him at home.

Like to relate to and think of it as someone,

not you coming to the site and what should they be

saying? And some of it is your story for sure too.

Yeah. So approach your website with that kind of a thought

as you start looking at it and what changes and enhancements

and if you get new photography also that can help lead

you to pictures to put up.

I'm actually in the process of working on a Shopify site

because I want to give people the option to purchase things.

Mostly paintings.

At this point.

I haven't figured out how the puzzles will fit into this

versus a platform like Etsy,

but I think that giving people that option will allow me

to make some more online purchases,

especially if I guide them to the site through my email

list or some of my social media and things like that.

I think that some of what I run into is that

people who I know through work or friends or whatever aren't

really aware of what I have to offer,

but once they see my essay shop or my website,

they're like,

Oh, this is cool.

I'd be interested in getting one.

So I think making it easier for people to purchase and

easier to,

like you say,

no, my story right away is going to help.

So right now I have a very basic WordPress site that

I think it shows who I am and it has pictures

of my work,

but I don't know that it's as complete as I'd like.

And I think especially with some of the ideas you just

mentioned about the applications where this could actually live in your

home or your business,

that's also really brilliant.

I think that could work really nicely on a new site.

I think it could too.

And there's nothing wrong with having stuff on two sites.

A lot of people who have Etsy sites also have their

own, whether it's WordPress,

I mean WordPress is a great platform,

but it's more programming and more work.

Shopify is a little easier and search on Shopify is pretty

good too.

So which you know way better than I do.

So you'll know how to tackle that one for sure.

But yeah,

I think so.

So, and I'm looking at the picture right now that's connected

up with your Skype account where you're standing in front of

one of your wall hangings.

That would be a great picture right on the front homepage.

Like if you do a scrolling first home page,

I don't know what other photos you have,

but that's a really cute picture.

If it's big,

like let's say to the left of you is just the

art and then you could put words there.

Yeah. And that lets people know that I'm a real person

too, for lack of better term.

So, you know,

I think that's a lot of times what people value about

buying something homemade is made by a real person.

We got to know the artist.

So think that that's also,

it puts that trust in that here's the person actually making

this into the website.

Absolutely. And the other thing about a Shopify site,

let's say you take pictures and you put them up on

Instagram, or maybe you do an Instagram story when you're at

a craft show,

boy, if you're not in this area and I can't meet

you live,

jump over to my website and you'll be able to see

these products and get one for yourself.

Even if you're not here at the show,

you can lead people to all these different places.

Do you want to see different ways to use our puzzles?

Jump over to my Instagram account,

blah, blah,

blah. Yeah,

on direct people to different places.

And that will help build your audience in different places and

you're following,

right? Well we could go on and on because I love

your style.

I think it's so unique and I think you have a

huge opportunity in front of you.

Yeah, I'll be interested to see what you do.

So we've talked about,

Oh my gosh,

we've talked about everything.

We've talked about how you have your full time jobs,

so this has to fit in with everything else you have

going on.

So don't expect and don't stress yourself out that it's not

all going to be done tomorrow.

It's not going to happen.

Right? So don't put that pressure on yourself.

We've talked about pricing and how you can look at that.

We talked about craft shows and getting more information and more

value from the show and capturing what people are saying because

that gives you more information and content ideas.

We talked about looking at different audiences over and above what

you're already doing.

We talked about your website,

social media,

and I think the big play is really getting people to

say your name and whatever your style is as synonymous.

They're one in the same.

Yeah. That's a huge play for you.

So I'm really excited about it.

How are you feeling about our talk?

I feel good.

I think there's a lot of stuff that I hadn't considered

before and so I really appreciate having someone else take a

look and give some different insights.

It's been my pleasure.

I love doing it.

And do you have any final questions before we say goodbye?

I don't think so.

I think we covered a lot today.

I think so too.

Well listen,

if you do have other questions,

I know you're part of my private Facebook group,

gift biz breeze listeners.

If you're not there yet,

what are you waiting for?

Come join us over there and I know Elaine,

that a lot of people who are in that group are

going to be listening to the show,

so if you have further questions,

feel free to post over there as well.

Yeah, that sounds great.

We can continue the conversation there.

You will be getting a recording of this and I'm going

to send you the unedited recording,

so give biz listeners not what you're hearing.

You're just going to get all the raw stuff where we've

repeated ourselves or anything like that.

You'll have the whole audio all Elaine.

Okay, perfect.

I'll be sending that over to you a little bit later

today. Awesome.

That'll be helpful.

All right.

Thank you so,

so much for being on and being one of our on-air

coaching calls.

I've really enjoyed it.

You have so much opportunity in front of you.

I'm super excited as I said before and I really appreciate

you taking the time and being on today.

Awesome. Thank you much,

Sue. Oh my gosh.

Do you see what I mean?

So much opportunity for Elaine and her business and multiple fronts

as she moves forward and you know when we go through

these coaching calls and even when we talk with established businesses

that we have as other guests,

not just coaching calls,

I always want you relating this back to yourself.

How could you apply some of these learnings,

some of the things that are working for others into your

business after all,

that's the whole point of this podcast,

I think every single week.

I tell you that I'm really excited about the next guest

that I have coming up and that's honestly because I am

after all,

I'm not going to include a guest on the show that

I don't think is going to provide you some type of

value, a new learning that you can apply to your business

or something else that's going to be useful,

which is the whole reason you're listening to the show.

Next week's guest,

I am super excited.

He said,

here I go again to introduce you to her because she

has built her business around something that is hot,

hot, hot right now and that is live streaming.

You're going to see how she applies it to her very

uniquely positioned business,

how she's growing her business through live streaming and I think

you're going to find some tips and tricks that you're going

to be able to use yourself.

That's all coming up next week and I look forward to

us being together again then.

Bye for now.

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