375 – Thoughtful, Generous and Personal Selling with Kat McCoy of Best Kept Jewelry Concierge

This is gift biz,

unwrapped episode 375.

The goal,

as I said,

for everything we do is to make someone open it and

feel like,

oh, this person sees me At Tinton.

Gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

It's Sue.

And thanks for joining me here today.

One of the most fulfilling things I've discovered through starting gift

biz on wrapped is the warmth comradery and generosity of the

community that we formed.

You're so giving and so talented.

And of course,

I always want to give back to you too,

to do something that can make your efforts easier and your

result greater.

So I asked you how you surprised me.

It wasn't help with an email marketing strategy.

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topics that make up a solid growing business.

Nope. What you're overwhelmingly asking for is help with social media

posting. You've been telling me that you're putting in the time

you're posting frequently and you're discouraged because you aren't seeing any

of this move the needle for your sales message received,

putting in more and more time posting in the same way.

Isn't going to magically bring you in the sales.

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your immediate access right now,

summer is in full swing.

Isn't it amazing.

The sun is shining full force.

The kids are out of school and life takes on a

different structure for these few months.

Even if your work responsibilities continue this year,

I'm trying harder to take in the season.

The moments I look forward to in snowy January are here

once again,

but too often,

I push them off into the future.

Why I'll be honest more than once or twice.

I've chosen to miss out in exchange for getting ahead one

more week on this podcast,

or to get some other business related task checked off the

list. But this summer is going to be different.

I'm committing to going to our local farmer's market at least

twice a month before I head into the office on Wednesdays.

And I'm going to spend more time in my garden,

something I love.

I'm also planning to test out some new grilling recipes and

have friends over to the house more than last summer experiences

like this,

make my heart happy.

And I'm determined to add more of them back into my

life instead of saving them for the future.

Now you may be wondering why I'm bringing this up in

the podcast.

Three reasons.

First, maybe you recognize a little bit of this behavior in

yourself too.

So I'm nudging you to add a few specific things into

your life that give you joy detailed activities.

Just like I told you about here.

Second. Now you can hold me accountable to my plan.

There is something about putting intent and speaking the words to

another person that makes it happen.

And third,

it leads to our topic today.

As you know,

from the title we're talking about selling,

but in a different way than you ever have before you

see my guest provides an upscale concierge experience.

Although high-end jewelry plays a role,

it's the service she provides that is her stand out business

asset. I know you aren't offering products that cost thousands of

dollars. However,

the customer experience you provide and set you apart too.

You'll hear great tips on confidently presenting the value of your

product as it relates to price,

setting customer expectations,

the value of a high touch moment and the mindset of

radical generosity and abundance as it relates to selling.

I know the whole topic of sales always is a struggle

and always get your heartbeat in a little bit faster.

I think you're going to find some relief here Today.

Our guest is cat McCoy.

Cat is the owner of best kept jewelry concierge.

She helps clients source the perfect piece of jewelry for milestone

occasions, including engagements,

birthdays holidays,

and anniversaries cat works with the nation's top designers,

diamond dealers,

wholesalers jewelers,

and collectors to find unique options for her clients.

She was inspired to start this business because she believes that

a thoughtfully selected piece of jewelry is one of the most

meaningful gifts you can give or receive cat,

welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcast.

So happy to be speaking with you.

I'm excited that you're here.

I can't wait to dive into everything about your concierge business,

but before we do that,

I'd love to learn about you in a little bit of

a different way.

It's become a tradition here on the show,

and that is to have you describe yourself by way of

a motivational candle.

So if you were to create a candle that really would

resonate with you,

Kat, what would it look like by color and maybe a

quote or a saying?

Absolutely. So my candle would be a really warm and inviting

sand color and the candle would be printed,

sort of these three overlapping circles with the words,

thoughtful, generous,

and personal.

And that's really what I hope every best cap piece of

jewelry is for someone is thoughtfully selected.

It's generous in the way that it was selected and purchased.

And there's something really personal about the style and it should

resonate with each person individually Love it.

And you know,

we always talk about customized gift and a gift that really

relates to the person who's receiving it versus just buying anything

and giving it to somebody,

right? Like that's the meaning of everything is putting thought behind

it and doing something special with the intended person in mind.

Absolutely jewelry in particular is incredibly personal.

And I think the goal,

as I said,

for everything we do is to make someone open it and

feel like,

oh, this person sees me.

And I think jewelry is particularly emotional that way.

And we all want to be seen.

Absolutely. That is for sure.

Take us back to the beginning,

your story and how your experiences got you to where you

are here today.

Absolutely. So I studied business undergrad.

I went to work for one of the big four accounting

firms and their management strategy practice.

So I certainly don't come by the industry in the more

sort of natural progression,

but I've always loved jewelry.

So he's been just something that I felt really passionate about.

And I have two older brothers and I've helped them buy

gifts for their girlfriends for truly as long as I can

remember. And I remember with my eldest brother,

he was very hesitant to buy a pair of earrings because

he'd gotten a piece of jewelry before and she didn't quite

like it and she returned it.

And I really felt like with jewelry where it's so personal

and you just really want to feel like you're going to

get it right,

and you're going to nail it.

If you could help someone and make them feel like they

couldn't get it wrong,

that more people would take the leap and invest in a

great piece of jewelry.

So very much inspired by my older brothers and the other

people in my life.

But I felt like there was a better way to buy

jewelry, which can often be confusing and opaque and intimidating.

Yeah. Well,

shout out to your older brothers for sure.

And I bet it was such a sigh of relief for

them to get help from you too,

just from a woman's perspective or young girl's perspective,

maybe I would say at that point.

Yes, absolutely.

And it's a really bonding experience.

I think what I do is very personal,

the recommendations I curated they're not generated by an algorithm.

And so whether it's my brother or someone I've just met

in the client seat,

it's always going to be sort of a really personal experience.

Yeah. I never really thought about it before,

but specifically for the occasions that you're helping source products for

munies are significant events.

Even if it's a birthday of,

with someone you're dating,

it's not like the big decade board birthday or an anniversary

or engagement ring or anything like that.

But any type of jewelry like that,

there's a motion on both sides.

Like you're saying the person who's giving it is putting a

lot of thought into it.

And then what if it's not received well Completely.

I think you're exactly right.

Oftentimes when you buy someone a piece of jewelry,

you can feel quite vulnerable.

The stakes feel a little bit higher because you've put some

of yourself into the process as well.

And so far and away.

One of the things I hear all the time,

particularly from my male clients though,

from everyone is the last time I did jewelry.

We struck out,

or I haven't bought her a piece of jewelry since an

engagement ring many,

many years ago.

And so I think what people are in some ways really

buying from me is peace of mind and confidence that no

matter what,

this was the right piece for the right person.

Yeah. Because it feels like such reflection on you.

Absolutely. Yeah.

And then the recipient also,

like what if they were given something that they knew put

so much thought in and they don't like it,

then what do you do?

So it's that issue on both sides,

right? It's a whole,

very emotional transaction all the way around,

but also a moment of celebration or at the same time

Completely. And as the recipient,

if it's not to your taste,

you don't want to hurt the other person's feelings.

Or as many of my clients will say,

they don't want to discourage for future jewelry purchases.

So you feel like you kind of have to play your

cards right.

And not give away too much.

So to your exact point,

there's lots of feelings on both sides of the equation,

but when you do get it right,

and someone opens a great piece of jewelry and it feels

like a reflection of the things that they liked the best

about themselves,

it really is a little bit of magic.

Yes, for sure.

So I want to talk about your business development and all

of that in a second,

but I do have a question here that is completely a

hundred percent self-serving for our listeners.

I'm just going to admit that right now,

the idea just occurred to me that we need to be

sharing with friends or especially our partners,

things that we like.

And also things that we don't like.

So we're placing information on the jewelry end of course,

is what I'm talking about,

applies to everything,

but on the jewelry end so that they even know the

direction to take.

Yes, absolutely.

I think some people there's sort of a scale of how

prescriptive some people are going to be on one end of

the scale is sending a link to the exact skew that

you're looking for,

including that'll color size,

everything else.

And then on the other end of the spectrum is,

you know,

me go nuts.

And I think somewhere in the middle is a little bit

of direction,

which might even be more of like a category,

which is,

I really want an everyday necklace or I want a wedding

band that can stack with my other wedding bands to celebrate

the birth of a new baby.

So to the extent the person shopping can have a little

bit of an instinct or a nudge in the right direction.

That usually is just a way to set up everyone for

success. Yeah.

So I'm just thinking to myself,

like put out the ideas and the thoughts.

You don't have to say specifically what,

but sometimes gentlemen,

don't observe what you're wearing.

You know,

like I'm a silver girl right now.

So rose gold doesn't really work for me.

And I know rose gold is in right now.

It just doesn't look good on my skin.

I don't think so.

If someone bought me the most beautiful rose gold piece,

I'm probably not going to wear it.

It's interesting.

You say that for my clients,

particularly if they don't know where to start,

I always ask them to email or text me a picture

of the person we're shopping for dress very casually.

And then a person have them dressed up to go to

a wedding or more of a special event.

And that's really where I'm zooming in quite a bit to

see the metal collar that they're wearing and getting just a

better fuller picture of their overall style and energy.

But having some sort of visual references is really a huge

part of me being able to curate recommendations that feel really

spot on and personal because to your point,

depending on the person's interests,

they may really not only not have the vocabulary for what

they're looking for in a piece of jewelry,

but they may not really even have an inkling.

So pictures and visual references are also sort of a major

key to success.

So smart.

Well, this is why you're the concierge,

you know,

so take us back.

Your two were asking for your help,

little, did you know that these would be services you'd offer

in the future,

but how did this progress into what you're doing today?

So at the time I lived in Manhattan in New York

city and I started traveling to the diamond district in Midtown

on 47th street and introducing myself to people.

The jewelry industry is notoriously a fairly insular and wary of

newcomers. And by and large,

the people you meet in the diamond district are typically third

or fourth generation in the jewelry business.

So the most challenging part of getting started was building the

relationships on the supply side and establishing any sort of credibility

for myself because I did have this more business background and

I certainly didn't go to Jamalski school and just have from

a jewelry perspective and completely self-taught.

So I really felt,

you know,

if I've been in business almost five years now,

the first years were really,

really laser focused on building up my relationships and just sort

of establishing that credibility with people.

Did you already have the vision though of the business that

you were looking to create before you started going after the

relationships? You know,

I did have this kernel of an idea,

which was,

if you could create these really personalized,

curated recommendations for people to choose from within their budget,

that could be a better,

more interesting way to shop for jewelry.

And surprisingly,

the vision hasn't changed that much.

I still deliver recommendations and a PDF kind of format for

my sourcing projects.

The custom side of the business is a little bit different,

but in terms of curating and sourcing great gifts,

the vision has really remained oddly steady.

So when I would help my brothers with their gifts,

I would send them three links to things.

So its own sort of mini version of that curation process.

But I liked the idea of the client being the one

to make the final decision.

That's very,

very important.

And every project that I do,

I can narrow the universe of options down to three or

four, but they really needed to own that final decision.

And it was sort of like lightening,

just the thought that if you could narrow it down for

people, that's the place to start.

Yeah. And you're right.

I mean,

that gives them ownership and the pride of actually making the

selection, even though they had a lot of guidance.

So I see the way that makes sense.

So I want to go back though to the creation of

the business a little bit more,

because this is so interesting to me.

All right.

So the first thing,

so you had a vision and then you started making contacts

because of the industry.

So which I guess you would need the context anyway,

if you're going to be asking them and talking with them

and looking at the pieces that are available,

you know,

all the different options you've got to have the connections you

can't start from cold relationships for the most part.

Right? Absolutely.

I want to be able to offer people options that they

wouldn't be able to find on their own necessarily.

And so for me,

that meant sort of building my own relationships on the supply

side when I'm sourcing or looking for a great piece of

jewelry for someone,

I definitely look at what's on the internet and look through

all of that,

but I really felt like it was important to have a

baseline of my own relationships and designers,

and really just sort of introduce myself to some key people.

So when you're building those relationships,

it's a little bit of a chicken before the egg kind

of situation where oftentimes you're building the relationship before you have

a client who wants to buy one of their pieces.

And so sort of in those early days,

there were times when I would buy a piece of jewelry

without a client lined up just quite yet,

just to really open the lines of communication and sort of

establish myself as a legitimate buyer.

So I proudly now say that I don't hold any inventory

that everything we source or make is completely customized and sourced

or made for you from the early days.

There are definitely some instances of me buying a piece of

jewelry without a client attached already just to build that relationship.

Yeah. That makes sense.

Because then you're credible.

You're not wasting their time in their eyes.

Absolutely. It was really like a respect thing.

Sometimes they were pricey pieces.

Sometimes they were really basic pieces,

but just to start transacting to have the flow of little

bit of money,

I think was very,

very legitimizing because particularly very talented designers,

they get hit up all the time with questions and inquiries.

And I think just being able to establish yourself as someone

who does what she says she's going to do was like

one of the great kind of key learnings from those early

days as sometimes you just have to buy a piece to

kind of break the ice.

Yes, love it.

Okay. And so then how did you start forming the company

and getting your first customers,

The business even to this day,

which is so dependent on referrals.

I really started with friends and family.

My very first engagement ring was my cousin,

Matt, who I will eternally be grateful to.

And I can't tell you how much I learned from that

first customer engagement ring.

I met a whole new diamond wholesaler.

I needed a bench jeweler and a setter to be able

to set the diamond.

So from that perspective,

very much learning on the job as we went.

So starting with friends and family and particularly with the earliest

clients, like really over-delivering.

I like to say that I like to make a thousand

dollars look like $5,000.

If you've got a $5,000

budget, I want it to look like $15,000.

So, because I don't hold inventory and I have a small

team, I could also apply,

I didn't need to do like a full wholesale markup on

lot of pieces.

So I just wanted to provide as much value as possible

to my friends and family and make sure that they ended

up with like a really wow experience.

And so,

you know,

what I sell is typically expensive and they're for milestone occasions,

as we were saying before.

So there's that kind of high degree of trust that's required.

And so referrals and just word of mouth is really the

backbone of the business.

Okay. So with Matt,

did you create the systems as you worked through that first

job? Like what types of questions that you needed to ask

him the back and forth and however your process works?

Did you create it first and test it with Matt or

did you create it on the fly with Matt?

Probably for that first one,

I was creating it on the fly.

The process has absolutely become refined with time,

dozens and dozens of rings later.

But as I look back to that first experience,

a couple of the core steps are much there,

which was a consultation to begin with,

which is to establish what your budget is.

And from a style perspective,

what you're looking to achieve.

And particularly if we're doing a white diamond,

what shape stone,

and then would that information,

I contact the diamond wholesaler and we carried anywhere between five

to six diamonds within your budget for you to choose from

based on all the things that you've told me about,

what's important to you.

And then in the appointment,

we look at all the diamonds individually and I kind of

help guide you to the best one for you.

And then after you select the diamond,

we have the custom create the ring setting.

And that's where really where even as I think back to

that first experience,

that's really where I sort of jump in and provide a

lot of value.

I like to say I'm always bothering my centers with,

I don't like the prongs on that one.

Or we said 1.9

millimeter band,

not 1.7.

So that's where I think a lot of the details really

come together and then the custom ring is ready for pickup

or shipping.

So the overall steps,

the process hasn't changed much,

but to your point,

I'm much sharper in the consultation to make sure I understand

exactly what you're looking for.

And I've just seen so many different permutations and different options

from a design perspective.

I can be really helpful as well.

Yeah. I mean,

as I'm listening to you,

describe your whole process.

It reminds me of kind of,

when you build a house,

there's a huge investment financially and emotionally into what you're providing,

but there's lots of different things that go along the way

to your point about choosing the diamond than looking at the

setting. And then ensuring that what you were asking for is

actually what is being produced.

And that's a huge part.

I think,

of the services that you offer because a lot of us

wouldn't know.

Absolutely. And it's such a great sort of comparison because for

many of my clients on the engagement ring size,

if they are renting or if they don't own a home,

this might be the biggest purchase they've made to date.

So when we talk about that sort of level of trust,

that's required,

I take that really seriously.

And to me what's most exciting is when I have a

client who initial consultation is assuring me,

he knows nothing about diamonds and doesn't know what he's doing

by the time we're down to one or two stones in

the appointment,

he's saying,

well, is this the VAs two or the VAs one clarity,

do you think we should be looking at this in natural

light? And so the education process is really,

really fun for me.

And, you know,

as I said,

I ultimately feel like my job is to make you confident

and feel a lot of confidence in what you're purchasing.

So a lot of trust involved That's perfect description because one

of the things I was going to ask you is how

educated do they need to be coming to you?

Like, do you give them reading materials or something before they

comment? It sounds like you educate them along the way.

I have a diamonds 1 0 1 that I like to

send you right after the consultation,

just to give you just a little bit of vocabulary around

the four CS and some of the sort of major topics

people think about with diamonds,

but I've learned with time to really tailor the amount of

education based on the client's personality and sort of appetite for

that education.

Some of my more analytically minded clients where want to learn

about the different kind of levers you can pull when it

comes to a Diamond's quality and size and everything else.

And then I have other clients who are a little bit

more intuitive or like a little bit more emotional about it,

but they want to see something person and they want it

to speak to them in some way.

I mean,

typically there's some balance of understanding the jargon and the lingo,

but also understanding that a diamond is really an optical illusion.

And so it has to be the one that jumps out

to you the most.

Yeah. I'm just thinking of all the different types of personalities

that you probably deal with.

Some people probably are either too busy or it seems too

much. They don't even really necessarily want to know.

They just want you to direct them because they trust you

into whatever they need.

And if you were to force feed it,

that would not be a good relationship for either of you.

Absolutely. My job is to make the process low stress.

And if it can refund because the ideas from start to

finish, you feel like you're being taken care of and like,

you can't go wrong.

And so I do say by the time we get in

the room at the diamond wholesalers office,

whether that's over zoom and I'm there in person,

or if you've joined me in the office in New York

as well,

the stones have been so highly considered.

And so highly curated that if you're looking at five or

six, each of the stones are on the table for a

reason. And there really is no bad decision.

So everything is so highly curated by the time you're making

a decision that hopefully that really sort of high stakes pressure

is off.

And you can really just sort of be in the moment.

And as I said,

ultimately, select the one that,

that really speaks to you.

I'm already feeling like super comfortable with you picking out my

diamond. I mean,

honestly, you just have this way about you.

And I heard it even in the pre chat when we

were talking before we actually pressed record here,

very professional and buttoned down and intuitive,

I think would be the word,

where did that come from?

Or is that just natural for you cat?

Well, thank you that it truly,

to me is the highest compliment.

I think listening is such an underrated and such a huge

part of my job.

And I'm so happy that it seems to come through,

but I'm sincerely so deeply invested in the outcome of every

single project.

And I think when you really do care,

people pick up on that.

But what I have to say is so exciting about my

business, as much as I went to great lengths to tell

you how I come from management consulting,

I didn't have sort of a natural path into jewelry.

I do at the end of the day,

feel as though I have a unique gift and a unique

skillset in terms of being able to get to the heart

of the matter with limited information and find things that are

uniquely personal.

And so even when things get frustrating,

or if I'm having difficulty reading a client,

I'm always able to fall back on this idea that I'm

doing something I'm uniquely good at.

And that gives me a lot of confidence,

I think.

Sure. Okay.

So I want to ask you a couple of questions that

might be a little more challenging for you.

Kat, I don't know.

You promise you'll answer truthfully promise.

Okay. Very good.

Okay. Your business is mostly service.

Yes. You're providing a product,

but it's the service that you offer that leads to the

product. Of course.

How did you consider what your pricing packages would look like

given this makeup?

You know,

that sort of central tension there,

which is I sell a product,

which is a piece of jewelry,

but what you really buy and service is really interesting.

And, and like,

that's kind of always there for me.

It took me about a year to realize that actually what

I'm providing is a service and not just a product.

So I really do set up this funny intersection of private

jeweler and personal shopper.

But to your point,

I now identify primarily as a service provider because I think

that's really why you come to me and what you're really

buying. I have found that with my clients on the sourcing

side, transparency is really important.

I want to be able to tell you about the designer.

I want to be able to share all the information I

have without feeling as though you'll just cut around me and

just buy it directly from them.

So I'm very transparent with my upfront consulting fee.

So from the sourcing side,

I charge just a flat binding fee and take a deposit

upfront. And on the custom side,

I charge a consulting fee for my time.

The pricing is something that I think to be honest,

I'm testing and refining all the time.

But I have found to the extent that you can be

really transparent with people,

it's very important because part of the challenge of fine jewelry

and selling jewelry is people really have their guard up.

And I think the more traditional ways of buying jewelry are

confusing on purpose.

And so people come to me because they trust me.

And the transparency part is really important.

Yeah. They trust you.

You have the connections as you were referencing earlier,

you have access to pieces that they wouldn't be able to

source anyway.

But I think you're really smart in what you're talking about

here, where you have a sourcing fee already established and you're

collecting money upfront,

maybe not all of it right away,

but you're collecting it upfront so that they don't go around

you. Cause that would be a concern for sure.

Absolutely. The deposit has become incredibly important.

I think early on when I was just so excited to

take on any client,

I would immediately get started on the recommendations,

send them over quickly as possible.

And at that point I could be,

you know,

I take the sourcing very,

very seriously.

So sourcing curating three or four recommendations can take anywhere from

an hour to 10 hours,

depending on if I'm physically going in person and how much

research I need to do.

So there were times where I was 6,

7, 8 hours into a project.

I send them these incredibly spot on thoughtfully selected recommendations.

They take a look at them and they say,

oh my gosh,

this is amazing.

How did you know that?

You'd love this,

I'll come back to you at Christmas.

And so I think just the deposit has been so important

to establish on both sides that like we're both committed to

the purchase and to the project.

That was a quick lesson I learned very early on,

which was my clients who serious and they want to transact

and they really value the service I provide.

Not only are they okay with the deposit,

but they're reminding me to send them the invoice.

It's my clients who are dragging their heels and not quite

sure if they're ready to put down a deposit that ultimately

tends not to work out as well.

And so what is the conversation with somebody where you're talking

about your services and they aren't a client yet?

So you're talking about the fees and all of that.

What is it that you share with them that your providing

to them in exchange for those fees?

How does that conversation go?

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Absolutely. So that would be in that sort of upfront consultation

that I was describing.

And so we're,

we're having that consultation.

That's where I'm asking what it is you're looking for,

who we're shopping for,

what budget you're comfortable with.

Do you have any ideas or visual references you can share?

And then I take you through my services that I provide

in my process and what you can expect to receive,

and then let them know that before now that I've got

my marching orders,

before I go out and curate those recommendations,

I take a deposit,

which is the equivalent of 30% of the total budget that

we're working with that deposit as applied towards your final purchase.

But it's something that I take upfront before I started the

curation process.

And so the 30% deposit includes the cost of the piece

as well as your service time,

I guess I'd say Exactly.

So a small part of that is my sort of upfront

consulting fee and the rest of that will be applied towards

your purchase.

Okay. That makes total sense.

Do you ever turn someone down in terms of accepting the

business? That is something that I've only started to do really

in the last 18 months because I've gotten busier and what

I do take so much time that I can only work

with a limited number of clients at a certain time.

So I've raised my buying minimum,

which was scary at first,

but I think ultimately really necessary for the growth of the

business. So from a budget perspective,

I do have a buying minimum.

So if we're not aligned there,

I'll be very forthcoming that I might not be the right

solution for this particular milestone occasion.

And I always like to direct people to that point,

if I have a pretty good idea of what you're looking

for, I may suggest you check out a few websites or

send you a few designers,

and I think you should check out,

but it won't be a fit for us to go through

the whole process together.

And then in terms like stylistically,

I try and remain fairly what I like to say,

like as style agnostic,

because I really do feel like I can source or help

you make just about anything.

My personal aesthetic is a little bit more kind of classic

and understated,

but I source pieces of all different styles.

So it's more rare that I'll turn down business based on

style, but I would say budget absolutely comes into play.

And then also with experience,

I've learned when a client's expectations and their budget aren't aligned.

That becomes an opportunity for me to either coach them on

a more realistic budget or let them know that it might

not be a fit to work together because I only want

to set both of us up for the best possible outcome.

And so if what you're describing to me is a $10,000

piece, but you want to spend $1,500

then I don't think ultimately I'll be able to execute on

that vision.

Right. But I love the fact that you still give them

something. So they end up leaving.

Like they're being serviced.

Let's say you're not going to be able to work together,

but you're able to direct them into,

like you were saying,

a website or someplace where they can find the solution because

all of these people are going to continue on with their

life and might have other really important occasions where they will

be able to spend more down the road,

even though it's not for now,

it could be for the future.

Absolutely. That's something particularly going into 20,

22, as I was thinking about my business goals and resolutions

and everything else,

this idea of almost like radical generosity is something that's just

been. So top of mind,

for me more recently,

I want to be as helpful as I possibly can and

kind of approach everything with like an abundance mindset.

I think before,

as I said,

I did have a little bit of fear around people go

around me or they'll buy the jewelry a different way.

But I do feel as though if it's not the right

fit, I want to be as helpful as I possibly can.

And those people actually end up becoming very loyal and oftentimes

will refer me to other people just because nobody has a

sour taste in their mouth and they feel like ultimately I've

also got their best interests in mind.

So even if they didn't purchase,

they refer you.

Yeah. Those referrals are very meaningful and very,

very cool for me because just a way to really keep

the relationship open,

demonstrate my expertise and kind of keep good feelings all around.

So as the business has grown and I've been able to

let go of the idea of like making every single sale,

I think I've been able to be so much more generous

with my expertise and knowledge.

And that's been really fun to be honest.

Yeah. Take us back to when you first realized you needed

to set bine minimums and how you thought through it and

how you then started incorporating it in when clients would come

to you.

Yes, absolutely.

So when I first started,

I knew that I wanted to stay within the fine jewelry

space. And so everything's either 14 or 18 karat gold versus

gold plated over a meal.

And so when I first started,

my buying minimums were loosely around $500 and you can absolutely

find something sort of dainty that is real gold at that

price point.

But it's quite difficult.

I mentioned before that a project can take anywhere between one

to 10 hours.

And so if you think about sort of the back of

the envelope,

math on a $500 necklace,

I can maybe buy it for call it $225 or $250.

And then for me to spend seven hours sourcing something,

to be able to buy it for $250,

by the time I FedEx today,

ship it,

sometimes it would feel like I owe you money at the

end of it.

And so to be honest,

because what I do take so much time,

the minimum and just the opportunity to make a little bit

of money needed to be a little bit higher.

And then I felt more confident raising my buying minimum last

year when I got busy and I realized I could only

take on a certain number of clients per month,

it's been kind of fun and validating and at times scary

to raise the minimum,

But you did it.

Yes. How did that feel when you first presented your new

minimums? I would really kind of test things out in consultations.

So someone would say I'm looking for such and such,

and I want to spend no more than $700.

And I think I would come back and say,

I so appreciate that we got to speak today.

Currently my buying minimums are $1,500

and above because I focus on major milestone gifts and I

want to make sure that you get the best experience possible.

So having those more difficult conversations has gotten easier with time,

but I never want to disappoint anyone.

And I always want to be helpful.

So between you and me and whoever's listening,

those conversations are still a little challenging,

but I think I've gotten a little better with it.

Well, and probably the more evidence you see with people actually

using your services just reinforces it on and on.

So you get more confident over time.

The other thing that I heard you saying is currently my

bind minimum is so that leaves room for adjustments on your

end, but also the potential,

like what that said to me,

when you said that is I'm so busy,

they may increase even more.

No, That's the hope.

So get it for a deal now with what I'm suggesting,

because you never know when it's going to change,

let's talk about a challenging interaction that you had and how

you managed through that.

I have obviously no names,

but can you think back to one of your more difficult

interactions and what was happening in how you worked through it?

Yeah, absolutely.

And as I kind of reflect on this one,

I think the big learning there was in the consultation process,

figuring out if I'm a fit for them.

And if they're a fit for me,

I had some sort of instinct in the consultation that it

may not be the best experience,

but I went ahead with it because I wanted to take

on the client and,

and take on the new challenge.

So from an instincts perspective,

I think sharpening those instincts and listening to those instincts as

become important with time.

But in this instance,

the client I'm thinking of,

she had a very specific idea in mind for a diamond

pendant and she sent me three specific pictures of another designers

piece. I did not have a wholesale relationship with this designer.

So if we were to buy something like that,

we would either have it custom made or work with someone

else. And I put together the first round of recommendations.

She liked everything,

but it wasn't again,

exactly, exactly what she was looking for.

We went through another round of recommendations and I realized based

on her feedback from ground two,

that really what she was looking for was to purely price

compare and price shop.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that,

but I provide a concierge service and part of what you're

buying is my curation and my taste and my expertise.

And ultimately she just wanted to be able to buy this

exact thing for as inexpensive as possible versus really kind of

collaborate and work towards finding something really beautiful and special that

aligns with her style.

And so it was challenging because I think I put a

lot of heart and soul into the recommendations and I think

it was probably frustrating for her because she was looking for

a different exercise.

She was looking purely to price compare.

And I think that was just a really powerful lesson of

having the confidence to know that what I do is not

for everyone by definition.

And it shouldn't be for everyone,

not because it's an elitist thing,

but because you have to be looking for a certain service

or looking for a certain experience for it to really kind

of resonate.

Yeah. So really important concept and having what you provide,

align with what your customer truly wants.

Yes, exactly.

And of course I mentioned before,

I'm transparent about my buying fee and consulting fee.

And so she was trying to negotiate all of that down

to fit into some budget that she had in mind.

I would say another kind of red flag or indication that

it's going to be a more challenging interaction is when people

are very bashful about sharing their budget.

It's typically because they bought jewelry in the past and feel

like they were really up-sold or I think there's a little

bit of guardedness around sharing where they really truly are and

want to be.

And ironically,

it makes my job so much harder.

And oftentimes when clients aren't transparent about their budget,

they end up spending more because when you are transparent about

what your max number is,

oftentimes me and the jeweler will work really hard and sometimes

take even a smaller margin to make it fit into that

budget. But when you're guessing,

and you don't really know where you stand,

that's when I think people aren't able to kind of bring

their, put their best foot forward.

Yeah. It makes total sense to me.

So what other things have you learned in dealing?

I'm sure you'll agree.

I mean,

all of your customers are more upscale clients because your product

costs more,

you're getting a better result,

all of that.

Are there any tips or things that you've learned along the

way being more service-based and in an upscale industry?

Yes, absolutely.

I think in the beginning I wanted to talk quite a

bit about how jewelry is notoriously confusing and it's confusing,

why something costs one thing on one website and something that

seems the exact same cost,

something so much different on another website.

And a lot of the language content I was creating or

was around value and savings,

which can be really important.

And education is a huge part of what I do.

But when I really embraced and realized that what I do

is provide a upscale service.

I realized that in some respects I was cheapening the experience

for people by making it too much about,

but trust me,

you're getting a great deal.

There are times when people want to get the best deal

possible. And then there are other times when people want to

feel like they're staying at a luxury hotel and the room

service bill comes and it is what it is.

And so I realized I was in some interactions doing my

clients a disservice by making the conversation so value based when

they wanted to have a luxury experience.

Oh, love that.

Yes. And luxury experience.

I love those words too.

Totally aligns with the feel that you are projecting right now,

cat to Again,

I, and I always want someone to get a great deal,

but I realized I was honestly,

I was detracting from the experience by positioning it that way

and also kind of selling the service that I provide short.

So the pitch is no longer,

you'll get the best piece of jewelry at the best price,

because sometimes that's true.

And that's certainly what I hope for,

but the experience is ultimately about something so much more.

Absolutely. And you know,

and there are going to be customers who are looking for

the best deal and that is not a fit.

You know,

it depends on the type of piece too.

So something like diamond studs where you're sourcing two stones and

then having them set in a setting for all parties,

that can be a great experience for everyone where it is

a more value based conversation because there is a market for

diamonds. We can find ones that I think are particularly well-priced

or below market,

and really think of it that way for something more like

a necklace or something with a little bit more of a

design focus,

it becomes so much harder to compare apples to apples in

that way,

because there's so many different components that go into how a

piece of jewelry is priced.

It makes sense to me.

All right.

I want to shift the conversation for our final topic here

in a totally different direction where we've been before,

and that is social media or any other type of marketing.

Now I know you said that most of your businesses coming

from referrals,

but are you using anything else to attract and gain visibility?

Absolutely. I would say that Instagram even more so than my

website is really my front door and my portfolio.

So that's the platform that I focus the most on.

It's an incredibly visual medium,

as you know,

so jewelry performs very,

very well.

And there are a ton of jewelry brands on Instagram.

So the challenge there is really creating interesting content that isn't

what everyone else is doing or trying to imitate anybody else,

but sort of finding a way to create content that feels

kind of unique to me and best and what it is

that I do.

So long-winded way of saying that Instagram is very,

very important for the business and probably after sourcing and actually

client work.

Instagram is the thing that I'm probably thinking the most about.

And so how are you attracting people over to the account

so they can see what you're posting?

Yes. So I would say I meet someone and we strike

up a conversation and they ask about the business.

I always refer them to my Instagram and ask them to

follow along because all of the pictures really are a portfolio

of my client work and everything that I've done.

And then once you follow along through Instagram stories,

which is more of that every day behind the scenes content

is where I think people can really get to know not

only my personality and my sensibility,

but also my process.

I liked like,

you know,

if I'm going into New York city for a buying trip,

I'm usually documenting that if I'm in diamond wholesalers office for

an engaging appointment,

oftentimes I'll show everybody the four or five different diamonds we're

looking at.

So I think Instagram stories and sort of a daily check-in

with people and a great way to really show them what

the business is all about and kind of what I'm all

about too.

Yeah. I'm looking at the account right now.

So it's kind of,

it's not really a portfolio as such because these are custom

pieces that are for certain people.

Now I'm guessing that you have to be really careful on

the timing of some of this,

because if it's an engagement ring,

you don't want to be showing it online right away.

Absolutely. There have been time for him.

Just something came out so beautifully and I'm just chomping at

the bit to post it.

But I will typically check in with the purpose of proposing

and make sure I've gotten the green light.

But what is cool is like if you go to at

best kept jewelry on Instagram and look through everything,

these are all pieces that I've sold and made and been

a part of.

So it's kind of cool to look back and look at

all the things I've done.

And oftentimes in the consultation,

someone will send me a picture of an Instagram post that

their wife or partner sent them.

Like as if to say I want something similar or we

really like this piece,

could we make the exact same thing or something similar?

So, you know,

I'm always talking about how we can have as many visual

references as possible in the consultation and upfront design process.

And Mr.

Graham has been so helpful for that as well.

So I could just sit here in silence and look at

some of these pieces that are not right now.

I'll put down the phones too.

Okay. One of the things I was excited to mention,

just because I know some of the people listening here are

on Etsy.

I have found that some of the most exciting jewelry design

and best collection of vintage jewelry is on Etsy.

It's of course,

really important to dig around and know what you're buying.

And some pieces are going to obviously going to be better

and nicer than others.

I just wanted to do a quick plug that I've been

really inspired by some of the jewelry design that I've seen

on Etsy and have built a lot of great relationships with

designers on the platform.

So you'll go and look for design ideas or sourcing all

of that over on Etsy as well.

Yeah. So particularly for sourcing,

if I'm looking for something quite specific or different,

sometimes I will go to Etsy to see what's available.

The search is so great and you can get very,

very specific.

And so there have been times where I have found and

high quality pieces on Etsy.

I curated them as part of the recommendations,

and those are the options that people go for.

It's been just sort of like another tool in my toolbox,

but just some incredibly talented people on the platform.

Thank you so much for adding that in.

I really appreciate it.

Cause you're right.

There are a lot of people here who will be on

Etsy and just reinforcement that keywords are all important because that's

the way you find them.

Exactly. Right.

I think this is going to be probably pretty obvious.

Where would you send people online if they want to take

a look at your services besides your Instagram account?

Cause we already just talked about that,

but where else online would you send people?

That's right.

Instagram is@bestkeptjewelryandmywebsiteisbestkept.com

And anything over on the website that you would want.

First time people to look at Services,

I think are right on the homepage.

You can kind of scroll down and see the three kinds

of services I provide,

which are engagement,

rings, sourcing,

milestone gifts,

and then custom projects,

all the things that we discussed today.

And there's also a recently revised about page that I think

tells a little bit about my story and my approach to

jewelry. And I think it can give people just a great

idea of what I'm all about.

Wonderful. Well,

Kat, I know why you're so successful.

I hear the confidence,

but I also hear the caring coming through in your voice.

And I am a hundred percent certain that all of your

costumers are just so pleased with what you're able to curate

for them.

Thank you so much for giving us an inside peek on

your business.

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

So A thoughtful,

generous and personal selling style sounds so much more comfortable.

Doesn't it?

I think the idea of providing a luxury experience for each

and every customer in your own special way is worth exploring

before you move on to your next activity today,

make sure to get your name on the list for at

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Next time on the gift biz unwrapped podcasts.

I want to make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook

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It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reaction from other people and just for fun,

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