134 – Twisted Pig or What the Oink? with Nick Lucas of Lucas Candies

Hi there.

This is gift biz on unwrapped episode 135.

We are a small candy company,

but we have gotten national exposure.

Hi, this is John Lee,

Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,

and you're listening to the gifted biz unwrapped,

and now it's time to light it up.

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I have the pleasure of introducing you to Nick Lucas of

Lucas candies.

For over a hundred years,

lupus candies has been manufacturing,

their own chocolate confections.

Lucas candies is a family business.

Currently run by fourth generation Nick with his partner,

Deb Bertrand,

Nick and Deb have kept the traditions that started long ago

while at the same time taking chocolate making to the next

level. They're number one and most loved product is the PMs

bar. By the way,

PMs stands for peanut butter,

milk, chocolate brushed potato chips and a semi-sweet chocolate drizzle.

Oh, Yom.

They have been featured in places such as Forbes magazine and

on the today show and Fox news.

So excited to hear the whole story,

Nick, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

So I like to start off directly diving into a creative

type question.

Let us get to know you in a little bit of

a different way,

Nick. And that is by having you describe a motivational candle.

So if you had to pick a color that you really

love and a quote or a mantra or some type of

sane that really tells us what you're all about,

what would your motivational candle look like?

Well, obviously because I'm in the chocolate business,

I'd have to go with chocolate Brown.

It's kind of my heritage.

You're Surrounded by Brown all day long,

all Day long,

our uniforms are Brown.

The chocolate's Brown,

our boxes are Brown Brown.

It is perfect.

And as far as a motivational saying on the candle,

one that we've been using for the last couple of years

around here is go big or go home.

We don't want to be this little small time shop any

longer. We are trying for bigger and better.

And every time we have a decision to make my partner

and I either one of us says,

you know what,

go big or go home.

There you go.

And I know you do this and I'm going to share

the story right out of the gate,

but I'm not going to give the details yet.

You and I tried to do this interview a year ago.

You were all ready to do it.

And then I kept getting in touch with you.

And you're like,

Oh my gosh,

I can't.

We have some crazy stuff going on now.

And I think we might be getting into that later.

So I'm going to leave everybody in suspense for the time

being Okay,

we can do that,

but you Are living by that go big or go home

for sure.

I Know you are.

So I know that this is a family run business.

Talk to us about how you integrated in,

where you like from a child,

knowing that you were go in with a family business,

or how did this all happen for you?

Well, yes and no.

Growing up in my family,

you were expected to work.

I think I was about 10 years old.

When I started working at the store,

whether I was working on customers,

doing a sales or the manufacturing end,

I was here pretty much from newborn on and all through

high school.

I was always here.

I pretty much ran the crew for the manufacturing at that

point. So it's kind of built into your upbringing,

but I wasn't completely sure that I was going to go

into it.

I went to college and studied engineering,

but then again,

I had to do a second major also in business.

So that just in case I have some business experience also.

And when I got out of school,

I got the regular corporate jobs and sitting behind a desk

and hated every minute of it.

I would actually leave my job,

come here and make chocolate at night,

make chocolate on weekends,

do whatever I could and finally realized I'm just wasting my

time somewhere else.

This is where I want to be.

This is what I want to do.

So quit my little cushy corporate job and started doing chocolate

full-time. And that led to say,

think about 94.

All right.

And I'm assuming that there was a little bit of pressure

because now you've got three generations that were continuing the business,

right? So I'm guessing there was some pressure on you that

the anticipation was possibly that you would be picking it up,

but it's so great that you ended up in the end

really, really liking it and wanting to be there.

Yeah, absolutely.

There was pressure,

but I always tended to do things a little differently than

my parents did.

So the pressure was,

yeah, you should definitely involved,

but make sure you have another source of income and do

that. And we'll just do it on the side.

And I really didn't want to do it on the side.

I wanted to do it full blown,

all, give it your all which you have to do for

a small business.

If you're not a hundred percent in,

it's just not going to work.

So that's what I did.

So question for you here.

If someone is listening now who has a business and they're

growing the business,

anticipating that their children would take it over one day,

you've lived in those shoes of those children.

Any suggestions for people like that?

It's difficult for years.

I was partners with my parents and everything was going smooth.

But when I wanted to start doing things in a different

direction, there was some tension.

But if there's any advice,

communicate open,

talk about it and see what they want to do,

see what you want to do and lay it out because

family's very important.

And you don't want to jeopardize your relationship with your parents

and your family members over a business.

You're all in it for the same reason,

communicate what you want and what the other people want.

And I think that's your best bet.

Well, you're right.

And just as you were saying,

if you're not a hundred percent in and you don't have

the passion,

your business is not set up for success.

So in terms of the pressure,

yes. But at the same time,

communicating as you're saying,

because if your children really don't have the heart in it,

what you've been growing so much and had your heart into,

could fail in the end.

So I guess just don't make the assumption.

Everybody has their different motivations and their different plans.

Make sure that at least everybody's on the same page or,

you know what page they're on So much goes back to

communication. Doesn't it?

Yes. It does great piece of information here for us.

So you are going to now run the company.

Yes. So you're coming into now.

You don't have to make anything from scratch,

but you've got an established system going on.

How did that work out for you?

Did you just pick up and carry on,

make some changes?

Take us there.

For the most part,

it was business as usual.

We have a retail store that when my parents were running

it, they had very limited hours and it was very,

very holiday based.

The first thing I did was changed the hours to be

open more year round,

make more,

every day chocolates and stuff instead of just holiday,

but the production and how everything was made was pretty much

the same.

I just made more of it and a little bit different.

So I kind of took what I learned from my parents

and went,

And then from your business training and all of that too,

Absolutely like online was something that they never did.

The internet was still new then.

So one of the first things I did was make a

website and start selling online.

That way it was difficult.

I mean,

we're a little tiny chocolate shop,

but you didn't get a lot of traffic.

But we had a lot of customers that used to live

in our area and had moved away and it gave them

an opportunity to be able to order chocolate from their childhood

and have it shipped to them,

which they were very happy about.

So that was the basis for that.

And so today,

what Percentage of your sales comes retail versus online?

It's still probably 90% is still retail.

Oh, no kidding.

Yeah. The website's growing right.

When we get some great press or we make it on

TV, which doesn't happen all the time,

but it has happened.

We get a sharp boost in our website because people that

don't know us are seeing us and they go check it

out. But then when it goes back to normal,

most of our customers are still right in our brick and

mortar store.

Got it.

Okay. And then what do you classify your trade show sales

as is that wholesale or what is,

yeah. Okay.

So that's a different animal itself too.

That is,

yes. That's our newest venture.

To be honest with you,

we started doing trade shows two years ago and we've been

to a whole bunch all over,

basically the Northeast and all the way as far South as

Atlanta. And it's interesting,

you meet a lot of new people and it's getting our

product out to places that would never have tried us before,

but it's still has a long way to grow.

So, Okay.

So let's dive into all three of these.

So your three sources of revenue are your retail shop wholesale

and online,

let's stay with the trade show first.

So when I met you last year,

that was your first show that you were exhibiting it or

the first year of your first shows The show we just

had. It was actually our third show.

So the first show we ever did was two years ago

at the Philadelphia candy show.

And then we did a second,

one of those,

and this was the third.

So it's almost exactly two years to the week that we've

been doing it.

Three shows and two years.

Got it.

Okay. So we've talked a lot on the podcast before about

trade shows and booth displays and all that.

So I don't want to really necessarily go into that,

but what is your biggest piece of advice that you would

give someone if they're just starting off with shows,

what have you learned from your first show to your third

show? You only get a couple of seconds to catch a

buyer's eye.

So you have to make your booth visually appealing right off

the bat,

bright, colorful,

something that makes them want to stop and go,

huh? That looks cool.

We have a kind of a unique product in most straight

shows because it's chocolate and people love to sample chocolate.

So if the visual doesn't get them,

I try to get them to taste a piece.

And that works great at shows that are not primarily food,

but when you're out there,

it's a whole different animal because everybody's trying to sample and

you got to get them to stop,

taste and look.

And it's tough.

We've made a bunch of modifications over the last few years

to our booth.

And I think we finally have it down.

The signs are right.

The display is right.

It catches people hopefully.

So we'll see how it goes.

Yes. And it's very dangerous because you and I had booths

next to each other just a couple of weeks ago and

Oh my gosh,

your product is delicious.

Yes. I tried everything on display several times.

Yeah, absolutely fabulous.

The other thing that you have there that I had asked

you about,

and I'm going to steal your idea,

Nick, sorry,

but the video,

the looping video,

talk a little bit about how great that is.

Well, we are a small candy company,

but we have gotten national exposure.

We've been on the today's show.

We've been on Fox news.

We've been on New York news programs.

We've been on local TV and I took all the clips

there and put it on a loop so that customers walking

by can see what our place looks like,

what we're doing and see celebrities.

I should say,

talking about our product when we were on Hoda and Kathie

Lee on the today's show people walk by and go,

why is Kathy Lee on your TV?

And then there she is eating our chocolates.

So it catches them.

And a lot of people stay and watch because they're curious

to how the stuff's made,

what our store looks like,

what kind of things we do.

And it gave them another visual experience.

We were fortunate enough to have these professionally made awesome video

clips that I just looped in the booth and people will.

Yeah. And part of those videos are behind the scenes.

So you get a chance to see how the chocolate's made.

And again,

a little bit different at a chocolate show cause people are

more accustomed to it.

But to your point that you were just talking about earlier,

you only get a couple of seconds to be able to

start making an interaction that makes people stay longer.

And it gives you an opportunity to start talking with them.

Exactly what you're talking about.

We're making RPMs bar and then they're watching us make them,

it gets them more interested too.

And they're like,

Oh, that's what I'm trying.

So it connects on another level.

Exactly. So great tips for the trade show.

Let's talk a little bit more about your retail store.

Now, elephant in the room about retail is it's going away

because of all the online business,

et cetera,

you sound like you're doing it right with 90% of your

sales still coming apart from wholesale,

of course,

but 90% of your sales coming from your shop,

what are you doing to attract people in to actually buy

versus going and buying from somewhere else online?

Well, again,

I kind of have a unique situation.

My store has been here for 121 years,

literally in the same spot,

in the same town.

So it's,

it's really a tradition for most of my customers.

And they've been coming since they were children.

So they come back every year,

they have to get there Easter basket from Lucas's.

They have to get their Valentine's.

They have to get Christmas candy.

It's a staple in our community.

So getting people to come for those times of the year

kind of comes naturally with us.

Our story is set up so that they come and bring

their kids,

or they were brought as children.

And some of them have been here for 50,

60 years.

They've been customers.

So that's why they keep coming back here.

The challenge is getting new people.

That's a whole nother ball game because they don't know the

store. They have to be convinced to come down.

Once they get them down,

they try our product.

They generally come back.

We had a lot of repeat customers,

obviously. Yeah.

So you have your prior generations to thank for some of

the business flow because of tradition,

but that at some point will fall away.

So what are you doing to try and attract new people

Business? That way it's kind of plateaued.

It's still the same people.

We've tried everything.

To be honest with you,

we've done radio ads,

we've done TV ads.

We do a lot of social media,

a lot of Facebook email blasts.

We used to send mail,

flyers, all kinds of stuff like that.

But we're also trying to do unique things that you don't

really think of.

Last week,

we just launched one of our new candy bars.

It's called the twisted pig and it is a dark chocolate

bar with bacon in it,

which is an upcoming new trend that people are doing chocolate

covered bacon,

but we did a little different twist on it.

And we actually launched it at our local restaurant and bar.

And we did it as a cocktail pairing because it's a

really deep flavor to it.

So we had our friend who was a bartender designed a

couple of cocktails and they made a whole night of it.

And we posted about it on social media and the turnout

was awesome.

And it was a lot of people that had never heard

about us,

wanted to try something new,

but wouldn't normally come down to our store this time of

year, but it created a buzz and it worked Sounds great.

My next question for you was going to be about getting

involved with the community and that's exactly what you're showing right

here. I would suggest gift biz listeners,

collaborations. Like this could be something for you also to get

exposure. If you have a similar audience,

but you provide a different product to that audience.

Now, in Nick's case,

he had kind of combining products because the two together create

an entirely different product than each separately,

the wine or whatever the drinks are.

And then they're twisted pig chocolate,

which by the way,

I also tasted fabulous.

So think about that.

If you have some business in your area and your audiences

are similar,

but you offer something different,

what type of a collaboration could you do where you're sharing

your customer base with them,

they're sharing with you together.

You're bigger than each individually and do an event like Nick's

talking about.

That sounds awesome because I'm sure you also got people,

Nick who knew of Lucas candies and then got exposed to

the restaurant of the bar or these new drinks that they're

creating. So you both win in that case.

And we did.

And luckily they're a restaurant is two stores away from us.

So we're on the same block.

So any customers that came down to them for the tasting

would come to us as well.

And we would point out or a store is right over

there. So it worked perfect.

They got a boost and we got a boost and we

got some great publicity for it.

Yeah. Sounds like a repeat concept for sure.

We have another one planned next month,

another candy bar.

So this is the trial.

If it works,

we are going to continue and we Awesome.

I'm getting tips from you on each of the different revenue

streams. Let's talk about online.

Now, when you came into the business,

that was the first time you were really doing online.

Talk to us a little bit about building the platform and

creating the website.

Overall, The websites are tricky and they do need a lot

of work and a lot of maintenance.

When you first start designing your site,

the thing you have to keep in mind is that's your

store. When they go online,

if they're not physically walking in,

what they see on their computer is your store.

So it has to have the look and feel and quality

that you would put in your brick and mortar as you

would for your online store.

And unfortunately it involves really good pictures.

Get them clear,

get them nice,

get them to stand out.

If you're highlighting products,

put some history about your company.

People are always interested in the backstory,

make sure that works to make sure somebody who's maintaining the

site of your selling products on it.

You gotta make sure you have the products in your store

that you're going to be selling.

You don't want to fill orders and go,

Oh, I don't have any of that information.

You really have to treat it as if it is a

whole separate entity and a another location for your business.

Like at one shot,

when they're looking for a place,

if they see it,

the homepage has to catch them right away,

or they're going to click somewhere else.

And there's millions and millions of websites out there.

So catch them quick,

catch them hard and make sure your product looks the best.

It can.

Perfect. I kind of have forgotten.

Now, do you have video on your website?

We have a press page.

We have the videos.

We have links to the videos,

whichever ones we can do.

And yeah,

most of the clips that we're running on,

our little video in our trade show or on our site

too, we've even done little silly videos and put them up.

We're starting to do more and more.

Where are we filming us making,

or we're doing a live video of that.

And we're going to try and put them up as well.

Because again,

people want to see the behind the scenes and how things

really work.

And they feel like they're more of the family if they're

have a little inside track.

Absolutely. Yeah.

And you know,

you talking about how you're doing more social media now video

on social media is a big deal.

So even some of that fun type of stuff,

I'm not necessarily talking with you about this,

Nick, but I'm thinking for all of our listeners,

if you have a WordPress site or another site where it

allows you to bring in a widget of a Facebook feed

or an Instagram feed,

you can have just casual video going on in there.

And then the professional videos like Nick's been talking about also

on your site,

both of those types are acceptable now.

So there almost,

isn't an excuse to not add video or some type of

movement to your site because it just is so valuable these

days. Absolutely.

All right.

So final question here on that.

So when an order comes in online,

are you filling it from the retail shop?

Yes, we have.

All our stock is here,

so it fills in ships out of our store.

Okay. And do You have a system like certain people are

dedicated to certain functions within the business?

There is,

but a lot of it just falls on myself or my

partner, the online is me.

So I fill the orders.

I maintain the site.

When you're on a small business,

you got to have a lot of hats because you do

it all right.

My partner does Facebook.

Mostly I do our online store.

She handles packaging and the more front of the house presentation

of our store and stuff like that,

where I'm much more production.

And then we come together for new ideas and new projects

and planning and all of the other good stuff involved with

businesses. Know you do kind of have your funnels of what

each is responsible for,

but you can overlap when,

like, let's say you get a whole ton of online orders

and the store's a little quieter or something you'll overlap a

little bit,

but you do have your area.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. There's a lot of overlap.

So take us Nick to a challenging moment and I'm hoping

you're going to tell us why we couldn't do the interview

last year.

You're going there.

Yeah. Last year was our hundred and 20th anniversary.

Very, very few businesses get to say that.

But we were in business for 120 years and my partner

and I were brainstorming,

trying to figure out what we were going to do to

celebrate it.

We've talked about having a,

some kind of party with the community or have something like

that. We had banners made for the windows for the year,

but we really want it to end the year on a

big note.

And we came up with the idea to make homemade candy

canes live in the store.

I used to make candy canes when I was a kid

and my father and I made them and growing up,

it was the coolest thing I ever saw to watch molten

sugar boiling and pouring it out and ending up with a

cane was incredible.

And I was telling my partner about it for years.

And I said,

one day,

we're going to bring it back one day.

Even if I just make them to show you,

I want you to see how cool it is.

So we decided that's what we were going to do to

celebrate the hundred and 20th.

But we were going to move the operation up into our

store so that our customers could come in and watch us,

make them easier,

said than done.

Describe this a little bit,

how this is different than the candy cane that you might

see in your grocery.

Well, the candy canes,

you see the little tiny ones and stuff.

They're still sugar candies,

obviously, but they're all done by machines.

They make a white peppermint candy and they paint with food

coloring or red Stripe around it.

So it's always perfect.

And it always looks that way.

And there's,

I don't know to me,

there's no real charm to them.

They're just mass produced and put out there.

And that's why they're everywhere.

Ours are different.

Everyone is unique.

It's a real labor intensive process.

And it makes for a great show.

Deb was telling me that the twist that red twist,

because it's not painted on goes all the way through.

Yeah. We actually have to split the batch of candy when

it's still liquid and half becomes white and half becomes red.

And then after they,

the right colors,

you put them back together into kind of like a loaf

and it's white in the center and there's red on each

side. And then you start stretching the candy and twisting it

and pulling it to get it to the right size and

make sure your,

a red Stripe looks like a red Stripe and twist and

twist and pull and keep going until it's where you want.

So a lot of effort and a lot of technique,

it sounds like,

Oh yeah,

it took us a while to get the technique down.

I still joke with Deb about it because Deb is a

quality control.

She wants all the appearance of the product and the way

the store looks and everything is really under her.

And when we said we're going to make candy canes.

And I said,

look, they're not going to come out like the store ones.

They're not going to be as white as the ones you

see there,

they're all going to be different sizes.

They're all going to be different stripes.

You'll say.

So we made our first few batches and she was like,

all right,

these are good,

but we can do better.

So we made another batch.

I had to make them better and better and better.

And 600 candy canes later.

She had the canes that she wanted and the technique down

and everything.

So it took us kind of a month of making canes

every day to get the color right,

get the consistency,

right. Get the sizing right.

And get it all done.

And it worked because they came out.

I mean,

So tell us how well they worked in terms of customer

acceptance. Well,

we started them and we were going to do the live

shows every weekend in December two shows on Saturday,

two shows on Sunday.

And we just wanted to bring some people down that may

be necessarily working to come down for Christmas or give him

something, give him something.

The kids could come see something for free,

come down and watch this operation.

And the first weekend our town has,

they call it holidays and have a straw.

So a lot of the businesses do some kind of holiday

thing. And it's usually a pretty good day for us.

And we had,

I think,

total for that day about 70 people in the store,

which was great.

We were very pleased with that.

The next day we only had a handful of people come

and we kind of figured it would go that way.

And we had a longterm plan that maybe within five years

we'd have consistent shows and stuff like that because it takes

time, but we're doing something new.

We'll try it right after that,

we got a call from our local newspaper who is over

the years,

I've done lots of different articles about us and lots of

different press,

which is great local paper,

local business.

It's how it should be.

So they called and said,

they wanted to do an article.

They heard about this.

And I said,

absolutely, come on in.

They videoed us for their website and wrote a great article.

And it came out,

it was on the front page.

So great publicity.

We were super happy and we're like,

good. This is going to work.

We'll get more people this weekend.

And it'll be great that day.

CBS news called and now I'm in New York.

So it's New York city,

CBS news.

It's not a little local station.

It's I think the biggest independent broadcast of CBS in the

country. So he calls up and Debbie answers the phone and

he says,

hi, I'm Lou young from CBS.

And I hear you're making candy canes today.

She was like,

well, no,

we make them on the weekends.

He's like,

Oh, cause I was hoping to come down and see it.

She was like,

no problem.

We'll make them for you.

Good for her.

She jumped on the opportunity,

Right. Without telling me or asking me or anything.

So she gets off the phone and says,

Nick, do you want to make some candy cans today?

And I said,

Oh no,

definitely not.

Last thing I want to do.

She's like,

well, CBS news just called and they want to come film

us. I'm like,

Oh, okay.

Well I guess we'll make games when they come.

And she's like 45 minutes.

I'm like,

all right,

let's go.

And we had nothing set up because we broke everything down

to run our store.

We ran like maniacs and set it up.

And he walked in and we were ready to start cooking.

And it was on CBS news that night.

And the crowd started and then more press started by the

time we were done in one week,

CBS film does NBC filmed us.

We had two local news stations to come in and film

us. Zagat the restaurant reviewer came into a live feed for

it because they were going across the country,

doing holiday foods,

saw us on CBS and said,

we're going there tomorrow.

And it was amazing.

We had 20,000

people watched it live on Facebook while they're filming it.

And the crowds just started coming in.

Every show,

the store was full 200 people at a time.

Our entire supply of candy canes was wiped out in the

first weekend.

I think we had about four or 500 Keynes made to

sell in a store.

And then each batch yields 50 to 80 canes,

depending on how many we did.

So we were like,

all right.

So we have some for them to sell and we're gonna

be making more each weekend.

No problem.

It was gone,

not one cane in the store.

And now people are at the show and they want candy

Gates. You see a BA made.

They want them.

So now we're taking orders for them.

And we're making teams nonstop for the next week to fill

the orders of the people who came to the show,

just so that they can take home something.

So now they had to come back to the store and

pick up the candy canes.

And it was insane.

We were had to limit our candy canes to five cans

per person per day,

because we couldn't make any more than that.

And people were coming in and trying to buy 20,

30 cans of the clip,

but it just wasn't fair to everybody else.

So we really had to limit it.

And so we would run batches in the morning and they'd

be ready by 10 o'clock.

The line was out the door at 10 o'clock to buy

candy canes.

As soon as they were gone,

we'd start making more do them again.

And they were ready at four o'clock and people would sell

out in 10 minutes.

And that went all the way til Christmas Eve,

people were still coming in trying to see a show or

buy candy canes.

It was insane.

I had never worked so hard in my entire life.

That is in sane.

I mean,

who would know?

And it's not like you could have anticipated that because you're

not going to make millions of candy canes only for the

reception, not to be that right now,

you know,

different for this year.

And we'll talk about that in a second.

But hindsight now,

advice for people who,

hopefully I'm sure you guys didn't feel so excited in the

middle of having to do batch after batch,

after batch,

after batch,

but what a great problem to have.

We were thrilled.

How did you handle it?

So you mentioned that you started limiting people when they were

coming in the shop so that you weren't sold out within

like an hour after you opened in the morning.

But what other advice,

if someone encounters a problem like this,

a good problem,

like this That'd be ready for everything.

And there is a fine line because if we didn't get

the press,

so we got,

we wouldn't have had all these people coming.

So we couldn't foresee that,

but have a game plan,

have a backup plan.

Look, if this takes off,

what are we going to do?

And whether or not you're set or not,

like we ran out of bags or the candy cans,

you ran out of bows because we estimated what we would

sell, bought our supplies accordingly,

and then went through them in four days.

So we had to last the whole month,

but I try to have a contingency plan for most things.

This one,

it came out of left field.

So it caught me by surprise.

This one was such a special technique.

It's not like you can just bring in some temporary help

and train them right away because speed,

at that point was an issue You're dealing with 300 degree,

molten, sugar,

and physically,

you have to know how to do it so that you

don't get burned.

You don't get hurt.

And to make the product,

there was no way we could train anybody.

There was nobody that we would have trained.

It was just having an eye.

We had one other person help us make the hook on

the cane,

which is pretty straightforward.

You look and see how big you want the hook and

you hook it and you move the cans off.

So that part was pretty easy.

And we had a variety of people doing that.

Debbie, his oldest daughter was our primary person for that job.

And she actually made the front page of the newspaper.

It was her holding candy cane.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, that was her reward.

So what are you doing different this year Or starting candy

canes? Probably in about two or three weeks.

And we know we'll go through a couple thousand canes.

So we have to make them at a time.

We can't be making cans for people to buy while we're

doing shows that were just not enough time.

And we have a retail store to run as well.

We have lots of other products.

It's not just cans.

So we have to be prepared.

WRA has it scheduled when we start candy cans.

And even if we do a batch or two a day

every morning,

we'll have the amount we need by the time the show

start so that we can just concentrate on entertaining the people

that are there,

showing them how it works and getting through our season without

working 16,

20 hour days.

Yeah. And the physical labor.

I mean,

I remember Deb talking to me just a couple of weeks

ago, about how after all of that was done,

just the stretching and all that has to be done.

I mean,

physically her arms were,

she was in pain.

Her arm still hurts.

It's been nearly a year and it's still bothering her.

It's like carpal tunnel syndrome in one week Magnified.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's what it was.

It was repeated motion over and over and over.

And one motion she makes you,

it's like,

Oh, there it is.

That's candy cane.

And I have the same issue,

but mine's a different motion because my physical part is I

have to actually pull the candy canes on a hook.

It's literally a hook on the wall and you have to

stretch it and stretch it.

And that's what makes the candy cane turn from a yellow

color to white Debbie insists on Archangel being as white as

possible. So every batch I'm pulling 20 pounds of hot candy,

75 times.

Oh my gosh.

When we're doing them live,

she makes the crowd count.

So I can't cheat.

That's funny.

Well, that's cool too.

Crowd participation.

That's awesome.

What a great idea.

We put on a great show.

We're like a comedy routine.

Most, are you going to video those shows?

We did video a bunch of them last year we had

somebody doing it and that was one of our promos.

We put it on Facebook live.

We did and stuff like that.

And then we had so much press there's like professionally videoed

us, making candy canes all over the internet now.

So it's great.

I'm gonna have to find some of those links and put

them in the show notes so people can see them.

We had one of them running at our trade show.

We put CBS's on our little loop.

It was,

it was a short one,

but it was really captured the whole candy canes.

Well, yeah,

I must've missed that one probably because I was eating the

chocolate. I was too busy,

too busy with that.

Most of the videos on there are deal with chocolate because

that's what we're wholesaling,

but the candy cane one was too good not to add.

So we stuck it on there too.

And we had a new chocolate piece that had candy canes

in too.

So it kind of tied back.

So it worked.

Gotcha. Yeah,

for sure.

Did you try that one?

Yes, I did.

I tried every single one.

Absolutely. That one was sitting right in the middle of the

table. Yes,

it was.

Yeah. See,

I remember you got it.

Yeah. But my favorite one was the PMs for sure.

And one of the things that I really love besides the

creative combinations and all of that is the naming of the

products. Cause they're all so fun.

Kind of like twisted pig.

Right? Talk us through just a little bit about your procedures

or what you do when you think you're going to do

some type of a new combination.

How does that all come together?

When we try to come up with it,

we usually have some starting point.

Like the twisted pig,

a lot of people were asking,

do you do chocolate covered bacon?

Do you do that?

So we usually start with some concept,

whether it's customer inquiry or just one idea that one of

us get.

So we start with that and then try to figure out

how we're going to make it.

What kind of flavor contrast do we want?

And the name,

the name is important.

So with that one,

it was all right.

We know we want bacon and we know who our dark

chocolate that's where we're starting,

but there was something missing.

We started with that and it was good,

but it wasn't.

Wow. And if it's not,

well, we don't want to make it.

Yeah. Now you're talking about in terms of the production and

the ingredients.

Yeah. Because that's the first step you really got to get

your flavors together.

And once you get that,

then you can go to the more marketing because you really

got to know what you're trying to promote before you can

come up with it.

And we do a lot of brainstorming and talked to a

lot of people.

I love a lot of our local places.

Like I said,

the bar and restaurant that we launched it with.

We tend to go in there with samples and the staff

try and get their feedback.

And inevitably it comes down.

So what are you going to call it?

So we're always there with a notepad going,

all right,

well, we want to call it this.

We want to try this.

You want to get this combination?

And it's a lot of brainstorming honestly.

And then getting some feedback because the people there were like,

what do you think if we call it twisted big another

one for that one,

it was what?

The only link.

Oh, that's cute.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that was another contender.

We go through it and each one is a little different

PMs. We kind of stumbled into that was the first one

that we really had a quirky name for.

And it fitted so well that half the publicity was for

the flavor of it.

And half was because of the name.

And from then on every new candy bar that we do

has to have something unique.

We can't just call it bacon and chocolate.

It has to be just a pig because it's a selling

point and people read the names and laugh or go,

Oh, that's interesting.

I wonder what's in here.

And it's another reason why they,

Yeah. And it makes you different too.

For sure.

And the thing I like also about your story is when

you're going and having an audience also help you,

whether it's the people who are at the restaurant,

a couple doors down,

or if you went on Facebook,

because if they've had participation in bringing up names,

for example,

maybe their name gets selected.

They could be like,

Oh my gosh,

he chose my name.

Everyone's got to try it.

So then the word gets out even further.

And even if someone just participated,

they feel like they have ownership a little bit.

Absolutely. And that was one of the things we promoted with

the event.

The other night,

one of the taglines in the advertising was come be our

Guinea pig.

So cute.

That's smart.

It was good.

We had little feedback cards and people wrote their reviews and

they felt like they were part of the making process.

They work is a very different bar for us.

We've never done anything with bacon or anything like that before.

So the flavor palettes are a little different than your standard,

nuts and raisins or whatever and chocolate.

So the feedback on it was really good trying to really

help them.

And it's also really good.

That was on the end.

On the right hand side.

Yes. It was the one closest to my booth.

I might add.

Yes, it was.

You did study all our chocolate.

I was there with you for three days.

Of course.

I don't know.

So moving on to a little bit of a different vein.

Now talking more about technical stuff about how you get everything

done there,

is there some type of an application you're using on the

computer or something that you're doing in store that's making life

easier that you think would be useful to our listeners?

A couple of years back,

we got a POS system,

which was something that we would never have thought of before.

We always just had regular standard cash registers.

And we tried to keep track of about how many we

sold based on,

well, ran these for four days.

So I probably made 500 of them or whatever,

but it was all guesswork when we got the POS,

it allowed us to print out a chart for Christmas of

last year and go look,

we sold a thousand PMs bars in the month of December

in our store.

We know we got to make that and it gave us

a real guideline as to how much we should produce.

And it's been really helpful.

We never had a real good handle on that before.

And now we know to the number,

how many we sold and that helps with our planning.

It helps with our budgeting and helps with everything.

Sure. Yeah.

Ingredients purchasing production,

Every aspect like this week,

we have to start going through our Christmas numbers cause we

have to start making our more everyday line chocolate covered Oreos

and candy bars and pretzels and that kind of stuff,

because that's always our first step because it goes into a

lot of baskets and gift items and that,

and we have to have our numbers ready because Christmas is

coming. So we gotta make candy canes in between.

So I can't be worrying about making chocolate covered Oreos.

I have to add that down and have our numbers ready

to go.

Pre-season so we're in a planning phase now for our first

big holiday,

which is obviously going to be Christmas.

Great thing about that is it's capturing the numbers without you

having to do any input other than what you would normally

do, which is a sale.

Exactly. It was a lot to get it going.

We actually had to barcode everything and print labels for everything

so that it can track them.

But once the work was done,

it makes you a ringing up customers quicker and it makes

planning a hundred times quicker and easier.

Yeah. Sounds like it.

Are you willing to share with us what system you're using?

It's called ShopKeep.

It actually uses iPads as a register.

Oh, very nice.

Yeah. I actually learned about them at the Philadelphia candy show.

No five years ago is when we started that system.

And I learned about it for the first time there.

It was still relatively new at that point,

but it's come a long way.

It's reports,

it's back office.

Everything is better than it's ever been.

So yeah,

I'd recommend it.

You for sharing that with us and you've walked me into

my very next question and trade shows,

of course.

But where else are you going or what do you do

to keep current with your industry,

With our industry?

We're going right back to the Philadelphia candy show.

We recently started exhibiting there.

And in doing that,

we joined the retail's confectioner association of Philadelphia.

They're the people that put on the show and it's all

candy people from different parts of the country.

And I've learned so much talking to them because everybody has

similar experiences.

They all have retail stores or manufacturer or online or looking

at this ingredients company or this machine.

And now did this work and it's been the most valuable

resource that I've ever had.

I grew up in the chocolate industry,

but I didn't know anybody in it.

It was just me and I learned from my parents and

my father told me how to make it.

And he learned from his,

so hearing new stories and new ways of doing things has

changed our business.

They do a trip every year,

usually in may.

And they tour different candy companies from small little mom and

pop shops to huge factories.

And we've gone to Canada last year,

we went to Ohio this year.

It was so valuable.

We come back and we're like,

look, we have to take this idea.

We're going to change our store.

Debbie renovated the entire store this year based on our trip

because she saw something.

I had one of the places in Canada and went,

that's what we have to do and redesigned everything.

So it was unbelievable how helpful it is.

Yeah. Two things here.

Number one,

if you have an association that links to your industry,

whether you're a jewelry maker,

Baker, retail,

confection association in the craft show,

there's also membership things.

So number one,

look in your industry,

what's available.

And then don't just have a membership participate like Nick saying,

whether it's a trip or connecting up with people online.

We're so lucky now that we can do that online.

Right? So that's the first thing.

The second thing is,

and I love that you talked about this.

Nick is Deb took action.

She saw something that looked good and she came back.

You didn't just go on a trip and get new ideas

and mingle with other people in your industry.

You found something really tangible that will bring your business to

another level and actually acted on it.

She did.

How many times do you hear people?

You know,

they take courses or they go to trade shows or whatever.

They come back so energized and then it's business as usual.

I mean,

it happens to us all the time.

We were buyers at trade shows for years,

you would see an idea and you'd talk about it on

the drive home and go,

we should do it.

We should do it.

Taking action is not the easiest thing.

And sometimes it can be costly.

Sometimes it can be difficult,

but nothing changes if you don't.

Exactly. So go for it.

But if you see a good idea,

that's working somewhere else.

It may work for you too.

Don't be afraid.

Yep. Perfect.

Perfect. All right.

As we're winding down here,

any final advice for that newbie?

Who's like,

okay, this is exciting.

I love what Nick's saying.

10 minutes later,

they're going to get off and go.

I don't know.

What's your advice to them?

Don't give up running your own business is difficult,

stressful, frustrating,

but also super rewarding.

And there's a lot to be said about going out and

being an entrepreneur and taking the risk.

It's a lot easier to do a job and get a

regular paycheck every week.

And it's hard to be on your own and it takes

a lot of work.

But if it's something that you want to do and you're

passionate about go for it,

nobody else is going to do it for you.

So do it.

Stay with it,

try your best and hopefully succeed.

There you go.

Couldn't have said it better.

All right.

So now I want to present you Nick with a virtual

gift. It's a magical box containing,

unlimited for your future.

So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable

Heights that you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift on behalf of my audience and myself

and open it in our presence.

What is inside your box?

Given the state of my company now and where I want

it to be.

I'd love a contract for a national chain that is going

to sell my PMs bar all across the country because I

want everybody to taste it.

I want everybody to know what it is and I want

to sell millions of them.

It's really our goal right now.

We're waiting for that big break.

We thought we were getting one this year.

It didn't work out,

but the potential is there and the product is awesome.

That's what I want.

I want to be in a high end store across the

country and people talking about how great BMS is,

which anybody would ever say that.

But There you go.

And I was a little bit worried that you were going

to say candy canes.

Oh no,

no, no,

no. I like what I do with them,

but it's unique and it's small time and it's really family

oriented. That's as much as I want.

Yeah. We beat them on our website last year for one

day after we were on CBS one day and we got

hit with so many orders.

We had to pull it off that night.

Oh my gosh.

That's crazy.

I don't want to make candy canes like that.

But your PMs bar is something that you can produce more

in mass.

Absolutely. That's more the direction we want to go and the

product we want to push.

So yeah,

that's what I want.

So now all our listeners are curious about the PMs bar,

where can they go and find it?

Easiest place is our website.

That's www dot Lucas,

candies.com. And it's featured on there and you can see RPMs

bar and some of our other products and read a little

bit about us.

That's the place to go.

Perfect. So you guys know show notes page will have all

the links so you can go there,

check all of it out,

check out the videos.

I am going to try and find the candy cane making

video, and also have that on the show notes page.

So you'll be able to find it really quickly and easily.

Great. Thank you.

Yeah, Nick,

seriously, I'm already thinking of a couple of names.

I will tell you them after we're done recording of places

where I bet you,

your chocolate is going to be showing up and I'm going

to give it at the most two years.

So I totally see your virtual gift happening.

Absolutely so exciting for your future.

Some of the stuff that you shared here are totally the

keys to success.

You guys are so right on in terms of taking the

really, really important skills and steps that you need to grow

a business,

you're already doing them.

So I see nothing but a bright future for you.

And going back to that candle of yours,

go big or go home.

I think you're nailing it.

So may your candle,

Nick and also for Deb,

always burn bright.

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