311 – The Power of Staying True to Your Brand with Ximena Bervejillo of Entrelanas Designs

Gift biz unwrapped episode 311.

I got such a positive and amazing feedback from people that

I realized,

yeah, this is what I want to do.

Attention. Gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is give to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

There it's Sue.

And I'm so happy that you're here with me today.

I'm starting off with an important reminder.

As you know,

I sponsor the at-home craft and gift show a virtual shopping

show that gives you the opportunity to sell to a national

consumer audience.

Just think no travel,

no setup,

no guesstimating,

how much product to make.

It's all so easy and convenient for both the artist that's

you and the attendees.

The April show happens the 14th through the 30th,

and there's still time to book your booth to hear more

about it.

Go back to episode 304 in that show.

Robert who's one of the owners of at-home events.

And I talk about virtual shows in general,

and then also the at-home craft and gift show.

Specifically, since we go into detail there,

I'm not going to repeat it all here,

other than saying,

you want to consider this show and you don't need to

worry about being prepared,

even if this is your first show,

that's one of the beauties of at-home events.

We walk you through it all,

go over to gift biz,

unwrapped.com forward slash at home booth to register and make sure

to enter in the code gift biz 10,

to get 10% off as a first time exhibitor I'd mentioned

at the end of last week,

show how excited I am for our guests today.

I met her just over a year ago and I've seen

such a beautiful transformation unfold.

She joined makers MBA at that time and was already a

determined artist with a vision and had been taking action towards

monetizing her products.

By joining the program,

she was able to perfect what she was already doing.

Add in the missing elements to strengthen her business and well

let's have her tell the story in her own words Today.

It is my honor to introduce you to Hamina Bera VGO

Hamina is the hands and heart behind the hand-woven creations of

entre Linus designs.

Her love of yarn and textiles began in her early teens.

When she first started knitting,

this led to crocheting needle felting.

And when she started weaving on a rigid head,

a loom that became her passion coming from Uruguay,

where wool and wool products are part of the country identity.

She found that creating hand-woven garments using Uruguayan pure wool was

a way to stay connected with her roots today.

Khomeini shares that part of who she is through onto Lana's

designs. Hamina welcome to the gift is unwrapped podcast.

Thank You,

Sue. I'm very happy to be here.

I am So excited.

You're here too.

And we have taken a little bit of a journey this

year together.

Yes. I'm excited to talk about some of the things that

I know and some of the things that I don't know

about the evolution of your business,

but before we do that,

I want to do our traditional candle and I know,

you know,

already all about it.

So if you were to give us a little bit more

behind the scenes of your personality,

describe what a motivational candle would look like for you with

color and quote.

Okay. My Kindle would be red.

I mean,

I consider myself a very passionate person and red is the

color of passion,

but I would not do it completely red,

maybe start with right at the bottom.

And then at the top would be more like orange towards

yellow. I just,

because I like that.

And my quote comes from a song that was very important

for me in difficult times of my life.

And then every time I hear that song,

I test it.

Doesn't take me back to the bad moments.

Actually take me back to the feeling that Amy at that

moment. So if you allow me,

because singing is another part of my life too,

I would like to sing the quote and then I will

say it in English because the song is in Spanish.

Is that okay?

Oh my gosh.

I'm so excited.

Yes. What a treat please do.

Okay. Let's see what my voice allows me today.

So this song is called color Esperanza,

which means in English,

the color of hope.

And it was written by Diego Taurus,

which is an artist from Argentina.

And the refrain of the songs has this with a and

it says like this in English.

I am like paraphrasing.

It's not exactly the translation,

but it tastes like this.

You know,

it's possible.

You want it to be possible.

So get rid of your fears,

throw them away,

paint your face with the color of hope and temp the

future with your heart.

That is beautiful.

Oh my gosh.

The words and your voice and Maina thank you so much

singing. It just brings it to a whole nother level.

Yeah. Thank you.

I'm singing is very important for me too.

No, I love that you have a gorgeous voice too.

So I didn't know that about you.

You're already revealing secrets.

This is going to be good.

Yes. All right.

Well, let's talk a little bit about,

I want to almost get directly into your business because there's

so much that we can cover here,

but I love in the intro.

How you talk about it evolved from your passion of creating

mostly with yarns and textiles,

which no surprise that your color was a graduated color.

Cause that's how a lot of your designs are.

You know,

you graduate from one color to another,

to another.

So you tested out different techniques.

If you will,

different tools,

different styles,

et cetera.

And the rigid had all loom was really what got you

passionate. But my question to you,

this is a long-winded step to my question is what made

you start thinking that you wanted to monetize this or turn

this into a business?

Where was that transition?

Oh, that's a very good question.

When I started doing the rigid head loom,

which for people who are listening to this,

it's a small loom.

It can be the biggest one is like,

I don't know,

like 80 inches,

something like that.

Maybe, maybe less,

maybe I'm wrong.

So it's,

they're small looms and they are very portable.

So you can have it anywhere.

And they don't require a big space.

And when I started doing that and I realized that I

could create pieces pretty quickly,

even though I love all the other techniques,

I was never a fascinator or a fast crocheted person.

I'm very slow.

It takes a lot of patience and time to create something,

a final piece.

And with weaving,

I started like producing really fast and I spend my whole

first year,

away to my friends,

my family,

anyone like,

you know,

secret Santa.

And I kind of started looking at the reactions of the

people really like,

wow, this is beautiful.

Thank you.

Oh my God,

whatever. So then I just started,

like, this question started popping up in my mind,

like, why don't I do this,

something more serious with this?

But the first thing that actually made me really,

I participated in my first show fair.

And I got such a positive and amazing from people that

I realized,

yeah, this is what I wanted to do.

I feel so happy when I do it.

It's just,

it feels for me that it was the perfect,

I wouldn't say end because I keep on learning things,

but it was the perfect road that took me to weaving

through knitting,

crocheting, needle,

felting, all this stuff.

I felt like that was the road I had to take

to get to the place where I was really feeling uncomfortable

and very creative and you know,

inspired and passionate about.

And you also have all this knowledge of all these other

techniques now.

Yeah. So you're experienced in the whole textile realm,

if you will.

Yeah. And I consider myself a very,

it's funny.

I learned things much better when I see them.

And when I see other people doing them than from reading

from books or studying or whatever,

I'm more like in the moment creation,

But the thing that's so great about your story up to

this point is you got affirmation from your audience that this

was the right way to go.

Yeah. Which is different than some people mean.

Some people make a product decide they want to sell it,

but really haven't tested out the market.

I don't know that you were really testing out the market

so much because you had affirmation that things were good and

that your product was desired.

If you will,

then you went to that show and saw it even more

sought with people who had never known you before.

Yeah. It's different when you hear it from people that you

don't know that when you hear it from your friends Yeah.

Taking yourself back to that first show,

were you in established business yet?

Or how did you decide that you were going to do

the show and pick the show and share with us a

little bit about that?

Yes. So what I did during the year,

before I got to the show and kind of take it

back a little more sure.

Of course.

I went to visit my family in Ottawa and I was

there and I took some shells to give to my sister

and my,

one of my sisters and my mom,

they had all been seeing my picture.

So they were,

Oh my God,

this show beautiful.

And I was there and I don't know why,

but I started saying,

let me find something.

Maybe I can find a show that I can do.

I never did a show before.

So it was my first ever.

And I found this and I submitted my request,

like my interest.

And they responded right away.

And I was like,

what? I remember the day I wasn't still there with my

sisters and my mom.

And there was just so happy.

I couldn't believe that by then,

the only thing I had was an Etsy shop.

So I started with that.

So you had your business established already?

Yes. I had established in the sense that I decided to

be out through Etsy,

which was the simplest way to do it for me,

it was free.

And I could just put things out there and see what

happened, but it hadn't had any sale yet.

And I don't know how much visibility I had at that

moment. I didn't have a Facebook page or anything yet.

So it was just that for this show,

I had to have seller's permit.

So I kind of like started trying to get a little

more serious about it.

I got the permit and then I did my business cards

and I came up with a better logo.

The one I had for Etsy and I had created it

and it wasn't very good.

So I happened to have a family with a lot of

artists and graphic designers.

So I asked one of my brothers to design me a

logo and that's my life.

It's perfect for you.

And of course,

gift biz listeners.

You can go over to the show notes page and see

everything that we start referencing as we go on.

If you wanted to take a peak at that while you're

listening, you certainly could.

All right.

So the show,

was it a local show?

Yeah. Yes.

It's called Marine arts and crafts show.

So I live in Marine County in Northern California and this

took place in what we call the civic center,

which is very big,

beautiful building.

The show was huge.

I mean,

for me it was huge.

It was like more than 150 artists.

And I was there and I was the only one doing

that kind of thing.

So the only person doing weaving and the only artist that

was present there,

who was also the person who made the piece.

Oh, no kidding.

Yeah. You were the only one who was the artist of

the products that were being sold.

No. What I mean to say is that there was another

person who was selling also like woven things to people,

but they didn't make them right.

Got them from other people.

So that was really cool because when the people would come

and say,

Oh, who made this?

I did.

Oh, really?

Like, there's a very big change when they ask you that.

Yeah. You know,

that's really interesting to talk about too,

because as you know,

when we talk about,

especially if you are the maker of your products,

there's a new relationship that gets established between you and your

customers. And I think a loyalty to you and a fondness

at a deeper level when they know who you are.

Yeah. And it's kind of like,

they feel like they have the inner path because they know

the artist.

Right? Yeah.

Totally. And so it sounds like from what you were just

describing, you saw that change in people and the way you

could communicate with them because it was a different,

deeper level.

Oh yeah.

Customer to creator.

Yes. And I have to say that now that I know

more about how to deal with customers and how to relate

to them,

I wish I had,

at that time,

a little clipboard to ask for them for their information,

because I did it at the time.

I had no idea.

I have to say that there were moments in that show

that I was completely overwhelmed by the amount of people at

the same time,

in my booth,

it was like,

it was incredible.

And so I didn't know what to pay attention to,

but Yeah.

Good and bad.

Right? You don't want your booth to be silent at the

same time.

It gets overwhelming.

If there are too many people.

Yeah. A little tip just for everybody.

Who's listening here.

One way to manage that.

If that happens for you is just to acknowledge that other

people are there and then go back to the person that

you're talking to.

So that people feel like they've been seen that way.

They're more likely to stick around and you can even say

so glad you're here,

take a look around and I'll be with you in a

minute. Something like that.

And then they're more likely to stay versus if you don't

acknowledge them,

they'll probably just leave.

Yeah. I did that.

And that was the exhausting part of it Because you kept

going back and forth probably.

Exactly. And you kept going and I felt like bad that

it was interrupting someone who's talking to me.

He was like,

he'll Yeah.

It is kind of a juggling act.

Have you now started bringing other people with you when you

do other shows?

How have you managed through that problem?

Well, my husband always comes with me.

He's a really good sales salesperson.

He really sales good for me.

He's my CFO.

As I call him.

And sometimes my daughters,

if they are in town,

they might come for a little time.

But most of the time,

it's me.

Other thing that you can do,

I'm just wanted to make mention of this is if,

as you continue progressing and you're doing these shows,

people will start coming up to your booth who have purchased

from you before and you get to know them.

So what I've done in my shows,

if the booth gets overwhelming is if I see a customer,

I'll say to them,

Oh, let me introduce you.

Like, if there's another person looking,

I'll introduce them to a current customer and say,

you know,

she's already got one of our shawls.

So Intel is considering between different colors.

I thought I'd introduce you to,

and I'll be with you in a second.

And then they start talking and then your customer starts to

sell your product for you.

That's great.

So lots of different little techniques there at this point,

I think it would be good for our listeners to understand

also how underline his designs fits into your whole life because

you have other things going on in your life as well.

Yes. You're not doing this full-time I wish maybe someday.

So share with us the full picture and then we'll go

on and talk about the business similar.

Yes. So I am a teacher,

so I work full-time at a school.

And even though we are with a pandemic and everything in

my school,

we are in person.

I actually go every day to school and I work there

from seven 45 to four.

And then I come back and I do my stuff for

interland hours in the afternoon and on the weekends.

So more or less,

that's how I organize myself.

When I was at home teaching virtually,

it was actually great for me because I had way more

time to dedicate to the business.

And yeah,

every single moment I have,

I use it to do something related to this.

However, there are certain moments when I am pretty,

like I had that,

like at the beginning of this year,

like I was,

I don't know if it was for the intensity of the

end of the year or what,

but I was just like,

there was nothing coming.

Like I don't know what to do was completely frozen.

So in those days,

instead of like forcing myself to sit down and do something

that I don't feel like doing,

I go on a hike or I just start cooking or

doing something that will bring my creativity back.

It's not that I lost it.

It's just that there are certain moments when I can't find

it. It wasn't that sales were frozen or that,

but that your ability to be creative to make new designs.

Well, I think It was a mix of everything.

So last year at the end of the year,

you know how it is,

you know,

the holidays,

I had a lot of sales on,

it had some commission that I had to really do quickly

and then came December.

And my plan had been to go and visit my family.

Like I normally do for the holidays.

And I had to cancel the trip.

I was kind of processing that first of all.

And the other thing was like,

I felt with everything going around in the country,

in the world and everything.

I mean,

it was a moment for me to pause.

The good thing was that I gave myself that moment and

I didn't because normally you would see me this way.

I come back from work.

I changed into comfortable clothes.

I talked with my husband.

If my kids are home,

I chat with them.

And then maybe I prepare myself something.

And then I go and sit in front of one of

the looms and I started working and it's nothing forced.

I love doing that.

It's like,

I'm looking forward to that moment.

And this day is when I was feeling like that,

I was just walk up past my looms and look at

them and said,

what am I going to do now on come to my

room where I have all my yarn and look at all

the different,

nothing, nothing pop up for me to do something.

I just let myself go through that process.

And there was a moment when it clicked again and it

started producing a kitten.

So I'm happy Because you reach those ebbs and flows in

business. You know,

sometimes you love it.

And especially when there is a creative edge to it,

because I think the best creativity is when it flows naturally.

And I'm thinking everyone is a little bit different.

You had the option because you didn't have to make something

like there wasn't an order waiting.

It sounds like you were just ready to start creating a

new that had you forced yourself to sit down at one

of those looms,

you might've started going into resenting having to do it versus

still loving what you were doing.

Yeah, because that's more or less my goal with this,

who is that?

This is not my main income.

No whatsoever.

No. So it's like,

not at this moment.

So I'm just giving myself that permission to do things because

I love them doing a lot because I have to do

them. It is different.

So even though my goal is one day to transform this

into my income at this moment,

I don't have.

And I think you don't know.

I think maybe at a different age in my life,

I would have gone through the whole thing,

even if I wasn't inspired to do it.

But at this time it's just great.

It's fine.

Full example of integrating your business into your life,

with everything else that it encompasses versus starting a business and

having that be your life like taking over everything.

And I like that you bracket it and keep it in

its place.

That's a good learning for all of us to remember to

bracket it.

I consider myself very intuitive Weaver in the sense of when

I sit on the loom and I have an idea for

a piece,

I do have a main idea.

So I know what colors I'm going to use.

And I know more or less what style I want.

But many times I don't have a real pattern in my

head. I just,

I go with it.

And I many times,

many times I change it halfway or it is,

Oh, I like this.

And I like doing it that way.

I feel like,

you know,

there are other amazing weavers who follow a pattern and they

do this things very counter rows and count how many things

here and how many they are.

And I did that.

In fact,

I did a lot of that in my first year,

the year that I was not going public yet.

And I liked it,

but then I discovered this other way of doing it more

like it's a piece of art.

I consider it a piece of art,

like a painting and a painter never does the same thing

choice. Right.

I do that.

And I really feel when I do it that way,

I feel replenished.

You know?

Like I feel like,

Well, I mean,

it's kind of magical because you have to start with some

type of an idea.

Right? Of course.

But then what actually comes through the process,

changes and transitions and you don't even know what it's going

to be at the end.

No, I don't know.

That's fascinating because everything gets roll in the beam in front

of me.

And sometimes I say,

okay, I hope it looks what I wanted to hope it

is. Wow.

That's fun.

Okay. So let's go back to The time,

right after that first show.

So you were really excited.

You were getting a lot of affirmation from people.

You didn't know that your product was fabulous.

You're starting to get sales.

So that's exciting.

And so what happened then in terms of the growth of

your business?

Well, that was in November the show.

So then came December.

I had another small show that I did have good sales,

but not as good as before,

as in the other one.

And then came January and February and all that stuff.

And that was,

I didn't have anything there,

but that was the time I think it was in January.

I think it didn't.

We started with a maker's MBA at that time.

Was it January Started in March,

March. Okay.

But I think that was the time that I signed up

for it.

Yeah. That would be about right.

Yeah. I Was like,

I had a goal and I knew I wanted to,

and at that time I realized Etsy was not going to

be my thing.

So I started thinking of,

I mean,

I try with Etsy again,

like I try to do promotions,

I try to do things and it didn't work.

I didn't attract sales.

It didn't inspire me to attract sales.

So then I started thinking of,

okay, maybe I need to have my own website.

Yeah. I started working on the idea and I continue weaving.

I did not have sales for many months,

but it continued creating.

And I created a very big inventory of in my opinion.

And then I started finding other ways of going out because

well then COVID-19 cane and things.

I had to plan work,

cancel the,

I discovered this market open market,

open air market,

outdoor, that organized guy here from the area.

And I really like this style and the way that he

was organizing things.

So I started signing up for that and I got accepted.

So I started going out in open market.

It was a tender,

but yeah,

around August or September.

And that was a wake up call.

It was interesting because I do remember when you came into

maker's MBA and it took me what,

like three or four weeks to learn how to pronounce your

name properly.

I tried really,

really hard.

I finally got it.

And now it's like,

I know it it's so easy.

Why didn't I know before,

but part of what we do in maker's MBA as you

well know,

I just want to brief everybody.

Who's listening is we take it from the top and talk

about like,

what are you trying to build?

What's the product,

what's the message.

How is it different?

Like a lot of analysis,

which then leads the pathway as you're moving forward.

And I remember a conversation that we had as we're looking

at the product.

Cause part of what you want to talk about is your

pricing, obviously,

right? You need to know how much your product costs to

make, and then you need to have margin to grow your

business. And then you also want to pay yourself,

all those things,

right? Your product is moderate to high priced product when you

say, Oh yeah.

Yeah. So describe to everybody the products that you offer and

the pricing and a little bit of that mindset,

because we had the conversation.

Do you do some lower priced products or do you do

all higher priced?

You have your own line because you also make yarn.

So talk through a little bit about how you settled into

your strategies.

Yes. It must be one of the hardest things to do

to put the price,

your work.

And I think it goes for me,

the two big pieces and also for the ones who do

small pieces,

like more piece of jewelry,

everything must be hard at the beginning.

And this goes back to my first.

So I,

when I went to that show,

I kind of put prices just because I thought that was

the price things should have.

And then I started having,

like I had three or four people who came to me,

started talking to me and told me,

Oh yeah,

I am textile artists too.

Or whatever.

Someone who knew who was in the business,

they told me your prices are too low.

You need to raise your prices.

And I was really,

are you sure?

I say,

yeah, you have to do it.

Your quality deserves more than what you are asking for While

they buy five shawls before you raise your price.

Well, it's funny from the three people,

only one person bought one thing,

but it doesn't matter.

I mean,

for me,

I really trust them.

They came,

honestly, they didn't come to tell me that to make me

not be able to sell anything.

I kind of tested the water in that show.

So the last day I actually changed the prices put prices.

Okay. I maybe I think I sold everything.

I almost sold out in that show.

Wow. You know,

this also shows though that the price also equate to the

quality, right?

Yeah. So when you make your prices higher,

there's the automatic perception and in your case,

it's true,

obviously of the quality of what you're buying and some people

are going after that.

Right. They want to buy the quality.

They're not looking to buy a $20 scarf.

Yeah. So what I do,

and when you asked me about my materials on my process,

so when I started doing this and you mentioned that in

my introduction that I get my yarn from Y,

which is where I come from,

or for those who it's better to say it in American

way, which is photographs.

Otherwise, people ask me,

are you from Hawaii?

So I get the yarn there.

We have really excellent yarn.

And every time I go,

I go to this specifically store and then I buy yarn

there. But I buy the yarn that is already dyed and

spun and everything.

And I do pieces with that.

And then like a year ago,

I kind of fell in the rabbit hole of spinning and

dying your own yarn.

And even though I said,

I am not going to do this.

I am not going to do is so much work.

I am doing it right now.

You're doing it.

So I kind of decided to go to,

as you very well said,

to create a line in my products that is all done

by myself and it's called trace manners three hands because it

is hand-woven hand spun and hung died.

And so that line of products,

I do absolutely unique.

I mean,

because nobody does the same kind of yarn I do.

And those are the highest price in my collection because I

really, I started from scratch.

I started from a ball of wool,

but I turned into a piece When you show it on

social media,

when you have your different colors going,

yes, just very fun.

I Love doing the dying too.

And I like sharing those things too.

And then there's any other ones that I do with on

that is really very good yarn,

which funny enough,

it's also made in small batches and it's made in a

natural way.

And so it's very good too.

I just designed the product and created.

So that's a different line of products that I do.

This is one thing that I love about your business.

Humana is your not just weaving or creating wool products that

are like any other wool products that are out there.

I mean,

your yarns are very specific.

The one you make yourself,

no one can get that,

but from you because you make it and this all elevates

and makes you stand out from anybody else.

And these are talking points for you too,

that also allow you to command a higher price.

Yeah. And I had the example like last week,

if I may share that in my last show I had,

which was a very good show in sales.

I had really good sales and there was this woman who

comes and she loved one of my shelves that I made

in cotton because that was another thing I did this year.

It's just experimenting with different fibers to see what happens in

the summer,

which is a very different story.

And she had this other,

she bought this yarn and that's shawl and loved it and

said, I would love for you to make one for me

and say,

yeah, I would love that.

So I started showing her some pictures of my dine or

whatever. I have been dying lately.

And so I want something with that.

And the thing is too,

that she actually connected with me again a week later,

say, so whenever you have the lunches,

let me know.

And her enthusiasm continue,

continue, continue.

And last Saturday I delivered her shawl that I made from

scratch died,

all the war,

Wolf it for her.

And she absolutely loved it.

And that was like really the piece that started from zero

to final garment around her shoulders.

And it was great.

And I know she's going to be a very good ambassador.

Well, you know,

you created a whole experience for her,

right? She met you at the show.

You showed her,

you didn't have it right there,

obviously, which is proof that these are personally made to order.

In this case,

you showed her some options.

So this was an experience interacting with you,

right? Or relationship with you,

then the interest grew.

Then you made her piece and delivered it to her.

This could be a blog article.

Hamina honestly the customer journey or one of the things I

love the most about the business in terms of interacting and

having, because now you have a relationship with her,

a friendship,

if you will.

Yeah. She's been awesome.

Was like,

Oh my God,

honey. It was funny because she said to me,

I need something nice for my zoom meetings so they can

see me.

I love that.

No, I bet you,

she told everybody who was watching those first zoom.

The story about the shawl.

Yeah. She told me that.

Yeah. I've been promoting your so that's great.

Yeah. I love it.

Yeah. And it's coming from the story because it's also coming

from how clear you got in the value of your product

and defining your pricing as it is,

et cetera.

I mean,

it's just a beautiful story.

Yeah. Say something more about the pricing part.

Of course,

even though this one,

everything went well and no problem.

I still continue to struggle with that.

And I feel it's something that we all creators even more.

If we are women,

I'm sorry to say this,

but we tend to not give ourselves all the credit that

we deserve for the things we do.

We have a hard time doing that.

Let's put it that way.

And it has been a learning process.

And definitely you have been an amazing helper with that because

you've been through the maker's MBA and everything I chatted with

you, you kind of reinforced that.

And my husband has always also been my children.

So I have all this kind of support group around me

that makes me just be bold and say,

okay, I'm going out.

If it doesn't work,

it doesn't work.

But I'm sure there was going to be someone who will

be willing to pay the price with no problem.

And it's like that.

And you're seeing it,

I'm seeing it.

And because my Prague are high price,

as we talked,

one time I remember with you is I don't need to

have a lot of sales to make a decent amount of

money. Right.

And that's exactly what I was thinking.

I was going to mention if you didn't bring that up,

because especially with the pieces that you do,

where you are making the yarn yourself,

think of all the time that goes into it.

Right? And so that comes at a cost.

So the people who get your pieces should feel very fortunate

and lucky.

And Oh my gosh,

Amina. I mean,

my shawl that I have with all the time that we've

been working together,

I've known about your products and all of that.

The lusciousness of the feel of the shawl is incredible,

which I was gonna re talk about the issue with the

production as part of your price.

Because so often we'll say,

well, there's no real cost because it's my time.

But that is a huge,

real cost for your products because of the time that you

put in.

But then the other thing that I'm thinking and where my

mind started going with this is,

I'm not surprised that you're seeing a lot of success with

live shows because people can touch,

feel, try on your pieces in person.

And so all told for you,

probably live shows are always going to be better for that

reason alone.

Yeah. That's what my husband always says.

People need to touch your pieces.

They need to see them because they're not going to get

it from a photos.

Even if your photos are excellent use,

like they really need to.

And it's true.

It's true.

People come to the booth and they touch say,

wow, Their expression changes.

It was like,

yeah, that's exactly.

Yeah. You know what?

You need to get some video of people experiencing that.

I'm not even kidding because that's the way online people will

understand that.

And that may be why Etsy wasn't performing as well for

you. Because even though I know that at that point way

back when you started your Etsy shop,

you still probably were higher than just factory made knitted shawls.

Right? So people probably were like,

well, why would I buy that?

If I can buy this?

And it's like a third of the price or whatever.

So at T might not longterm ever be the best place

for you to be live shows might always be.

And the website of course,

and your images,

Oh my gosh are so beautiful.

I can barely even stand it because I was with you

along the path,

as you were developing your website and Oh my gosh,

everybody has got to go and see the images on the

site. They are absolutely spectacular.

So that does help with the quality Hamina because your images

are so high class and show the intricacy of the patterns

and all of that.

So that also helps it all ties together with your higher

price. Now I know you'll have to do an average because

different shows have different prices to attend,

but how many,

and let's just go with one product.

Let's just say a shawl since that's what we've been talking

about throughout this whole time.

If approximately how many shells would you have to sell at

a show for it to be a successful show for you?

Well, if successful,

you're considered too Paying back the cost of admission and more.

Oh, well like would you say bare minimum?

I'll say a show is a success.

If I sell X number of shots,

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Normally with the shows I've gone to The cost of the

show, less Than the cost of one of my shots.

Not for much,

but it is,

or it would be the cost of the cheapest side of

my shots.

Like one,

I have different prices for of my shelves too.

So I would say that if I have to cover that

and you know,

transportation to there,

I would say that if I sell four pieces,

five pieces,

I'm fine.

I'm happy.

Okay. All right.

And that's what you're seeing now.

Right? And more,

yes, There are shows that I sell more than that.

Or they're also shows when I sell pieces that are more

expensive, Right?

Yeah. I was just kind of thinking on average on this

is if you,

as a listener,

if your product is a higher price,

you've got to think that mindset,

you don't have to sell as much to make some of

the shows or whatever else you're doing pay off for you.

But what you should do is stay in your pricing lane.

Yeah. Like Romania,

you would never go and start selling low priced items.

Then your whole image gets blurred over.

Yeah. The only thing I did this year was that I

started doing some beanies because I liked doing,

I mean,

I started doing what I was watching TV,

doing crochet beanies or whatever.

And I liked them and said,

I'm going to put them out there and see if people

buy them.

And they were pretty cheap,

but I did it like an experiment.

And I did sell,

I did sell a bunch of them because people would come

on. Yeah.

Well, I don't want to spend that money,

but I like it to be any worse.

Let's get one of those.

And the beanies,

were they from special yarns too?

You know,

there were mostly like,

I use like leftover yarn that I have from projects that

are used.

And then they are not all of them.

I mean,

they are really nice yarn obviously,

but they are not made with No,

not the yarn you make,

but still the Uruguay WOL.

Yes. So you still stayed in line with your image.

Yeah. You just made some smaller high-quality pieces that were lower

price points,

but still upscale for what they are.

Yeah. Good.

Cause I was thinking we needed another coaching call.

No, no,

honestly, you know,

I kind of did them as a test,

as I said to see,

because one of the things I noticed,

and this is something interesting to talk about is that because

what I do is made out of wool,

I realized this year,

it was a very good learning experience to see,

okay. In the summer when you are in 102 degrees,

nobody wants to buy something made on a wall and not

even cotton because I also did cotton pieces.

So I decided,

okay, I need to do something that will maintain your support

me through summers.

And yeah.

It's also something I'm considering.

So you're figuring out what that could look like.

That makes sense.

And you are seasoned with your current products is clearly fall

into holidays.

Yep. Through the spring,

you know,

when you're needing shawls and even early summer,

when they're still more chili summer nights,

I'd say yes About that.

You know,

that's why I created a cotton line that I sold a

lot of pieces,

but I thought it was going to be like out of

my hands,

like right away.

And it wasn't No,

I mean,

this totally makes sense.

And this aligns everything that you're saying aligned and is such

an obvious synergy with what your product is,

you know,

that you're seeing success in face-to-face shows at T maybe isn't

performing as well as it might.

I know that you've started looking at making sure that you're

getting emails so that when you're exhibiting at shows,

you start collecting emails because not everyone's going to buy right.

When they see you,

but they might want to buy the next time.

So they need to know the next show.

You're going to be at That.

Yeah. That's a work in progress.

That's okay.

I know you're working on it.

And that's also a good point.

Like can't do everything right away.

No, which is fine.

Yeah. I've been trying to put more emphasis on social media

and no kind of direct connection with people through social media

than with emails.

But I will,

I will.

That's my goal for this year.

They're kind of both because different people will be attracted to

you in different ways.

Yeah. So some of the people who come up to the

booth during the physical shows,

and let's say you had a giveaway for being a,

or be the first to know some of the new designs

that I make,

because they may not see anything at the booth that like

pulls them.

They love the quality,

but the colors,

like maybe you've sold out of colors.

They would have wanted for them to be able to be

the first to know is a value.

That would be a reason I would give you my email.

I want to know.

Right. But I might not be following you on social right

away. So you have different audiences.

Some might see you at the shows and you're local.

Some might be following you on Instagram or Facebook,

you know,

all different places.

So that's why it's good to be doing both.

But it doesn't mean that you have both from zero to

a hundred in a week,

like it takes time to build and develop and get it

into a system,

right? Yes,

yes. Yeah.

So let's talk about social a little bit because I'm telling

you whenever I see you on social,

I just have the biggest smile on my face.

And there's a few reasons we were already talking about the

images that you make and how high quality they are.

But also you've done things that most people,

honestly, who may know will never do like go live.

Right? Yeah.

Talk about that.

Talk about your first video that you did.

Yeah. I've gone live.

And I also have a YouTube channel where I post videos

and it's really,

it's been more successful than what I thought it would be.

So this is funny because I find myself feeling they're comfortable

with social media,

with the Instagram thing.

And I don't know if,

because my use it or whatever,

but I feel like in my,

how do you say In your mind,

in your gut,

like intuitively I kind of,

it's fun.

I find it that it's so much fun to do that.

And I know that many times maybe I'm too expressive or

whatever, but I find that doing lives on Instagram.

I haven't done on Facebook only once,

but on Instagram,

it's another way of showing who I am and showing the,

you know,

the backstage of things.

And I expect to make connections with people in that way.

This is who I am.

This is the hand and the personality behind all these pieces.

And it goes with a piece.

That's what I want.

So when you get a piece from me,

you'll know you're getting something from me too.

And that's how I like it.

Even if someone says,

Oh, that's not super professional or whatever,

then, well,

that's how I am.

I'm going to do it this way.

Well, I'm looking at your Instagram account right now.

And first off one good thing to know is we used

to talk like a year ago,

maybe two,

I'll say a year ago that your Instagram feed.

So what everyone sees all the time should be like a

well curated magazine.

Like it should be like the plushest of plush.

Beautiful. All of that things have changed now.

Luckily, thank God we can all breathe.

A sigh of relief.

And people want to know the Instagram account owner,

especially when we're smaller brand.

Like not the big brands I'm talking about us and you

should go live and be yourself.

I mean,

that's what we would want.

Because if you tried to improv that you were something different,

it would come through,

it wouldn't work.

So being you and just having fun with it is fabulous.

But the one thing that I really,

really want to point out,

and then you're going to tell us how you do this

is we've already totally.

I mean,

everybody who's been listening thus far understands that your product is

high quality,

upscale, everything we've talked about,

your imagery shows that too.

Like, even though you say you're more casual,

I'm looking through all of this and I see there's a

picture of a house.

I'm not sure why that's there and your cat,

but it's all still,

some of it's showing just the personality of you.

But when you get to your products,

it is all beautiful photography.

So share with us what you do to get these photos,

because I think people are going to be surprised.

Oh yeah.

Do you really want to know?

Yes. We want the honest truth.

It's called cell phone,

but we're in my backyard.

I happened to have the space and the surface is I

like to use as my background before I started taking pictures.

I obviously I browse through Instagram,

on other people doing the same things or similar things.

And you know,

there's a pattern how photos are taken there.

Normally there's either a white background or kind of a stage

thing. And I like that is fine,

but I never felt connected to that style.

And I do like wood a lot.

And I like the contrast between war on wood.

And I found this piece of fence in my backyard.

That was the perfect area to take photos.

So that's mostly where I take my photos.

I like to use a lot of,

as I said,

wood, but driftwood too.

Like when I have my shows,

my setup of my booth,

it has a lot of driftwood.

Like all my hangers are made with driftwood,

all my everything.

And I feel like that's as attractive as my pieces for

the people who come to the booth.

And I like taking pictures in natural light obviously.

And not always an even light because I feel that the

mix or the blending of the different lights,

shade with the wall and the texture of my pieces that

is also really attractive.

And yeah,

that's how I do it.

You just hang my pieces in my hanger on that little

corner. And I use my phone,

which I made sure that I got a phone that has

a good camera.

Yeah. Let's put it that way.

When I changed my phone last year,

I decided to pay attention to that.

That was the most important part.

So I do that.

Like, for example,

if you see my post from this morning,

I mentioned the three things that I really like,

the light,

the space and the texture.

And that's what I try to put to show in my

pictures. Yeah.

And this one also,

you can see that there's a little bit of shade going

on there too.

That's beautiful.

So, and you also,

I'm seeing,

you're doing a lot of carousel posts,

which is great.

I mean,

that's one of the ways that you get more reach because

people who are looking as they're scrolling through those pictures stay

in Instagram longer.

Yes. And also because I learned that and as I learned,

my daughter told me this,

that my stories that were the ones that were having more

than one photo are only seen by my followers.

And I said,

Oh really?

Only that,

Oh, no,

I wanted to.

So I'm trying to do that in the posts.

So it's a little more open.

That's just my stories just on my phone.

It's true.

That, that is what happens is you go deeper than with

your followers in your stories,

but I'll also tell you that I've been doing some hashtags

in my stories and getting people,

watching them.

That aren't my followers yet.

Yeah. And especially like,

when you go to a show,

if you're doing stories at a show,

do the hashtag of the show and then hashtag of the

town, you probably are already doing that.

I'm just going to bring it up.

But I am directing all of you to go and look

at Hermanos account.

It's called designs.

The link will be in the show notes.

And so I want you to look at some of the

quality of the photos,

but I also want you to scroll down.

Don't be embarrassed to Mina to the one that is her.

She's in a,

it looks like it's a blue and white Stripe top,

but it's a video and she's trying on all her beanie.

And it's so fun because,

and it sped up.

Right. But you're doing so many fun things there because you're

showing the different beanie styles you're showing your personality,

it's sped up.

So I'm like wanting to see,

well, what's the next one she's going to bring out.

What's the next one she's going to bring out.

And it's so great.

I absolutely love it.

I mean,

this is absolutely perfect.

This is so great.

One more thing.

I think I'd like to cover here for a minute.

And then I'm going to ask you a final question.

Okay. So you were one of the people who attended the

first at-home craft and gift show this year.

So we know that your face-to-face shows are working really,

really well.

Can you share with us a little bit of your experience

with a virtual show and for those of you who are

brand new to the podcast,

or don't know about this,

I've linked up with at-home events to put on virtual shows.

Now this is not for wholesale.

Like, you know,

you talk about trade shows and you're looking for wholesale placement.

And so this is totally different.

This is direct to consumer and Hamina,

you were part of that show.

So share with me a little bit about your experiences from

that show.

Well, it's interesting.

I prepare for that show in a way that I thought

it was enough for me to gain visibility.

And I have to say that in the end,

I realized I should have done more to get there in

the sense of promoted more.

I found that it was a cool way.

I liked the structure of the show,

the idea of being in your booth and people coming in

and talking to you and you being able to show,

I love that part.

I absolutely loved it.

I had fun doing it when people would come and knock

on my door.

I didn't have as many visitors as I thought I would

have, but I think that was maybe because of,

I didn't put much effort in promoting it.

So I think that it was part of my work towards

it, but I think the structure of the show it's really

cool. It's not the same as a live show obviously,

but it does kind of substitute a little bit of that

because I was able to show like putting in front of

the camera and they could see much better than just in

a still photos.

And I could model things for them if they were interested.

I think that was a cool thing to do.

Yeah. And you could even do some demos if you wanted

or actually be looming right.

Then if you wanted to,

for that matter.

Yeah. I mean,

I'm seeing the future of virtual shows like this and again,

to the consumer,

not just post-sale as a totally separate option versus live shows.

Like it's not just taking a live show and putting it

online. It's an experience unto itself.

But the opportunity is there then to reach people like on

a national basis that you would never be able to reach.

I also see like Hamina,

and I don't know if you've done this.

You can let me know afterwards,

but if your email was up to where it could,

because I'm not sure where you are in that process right

now, people who wouldn't be able to come to a show

because of weather or not able to make it for a

day, but still want to see more of your pieces in

person or communicate with you like that woman that you were

just talking about,

who you made.

They could then come to a virtual show very easily from

their home,

by being able to add in that layer and email everybody

to say,

Hey, you've seen me at live shows.

Here's another live show online,

come visit me.

I'll show you what my newest designs are.

Things like that.

Yeah. I did that.

I did that with my group of customers that had,

or friends.

And I actually had people coming,

the people who came were because I send them.

Oh, good.

So for people who might be considering looking at one of

these shows in the future,

what types of things,

when you say you felt like you were less prepared than

maybe you should have been,

what would be your recommendations for people?

Well, A combination would be to really put time and effort

in promoting it in all your different channels,

social media email,

to talk to people and tell them where you're going to

be. Obviously,

because people don't know if you people don't know you're going

to be there,

how are they going to be there?

Right. So you don't expect that.

And also,

I don't know the structure of how people would get into

the show and go to your booth.

What took them there?

What was that?

Attract them to go there?

You know what I mean?

What's the draw for them to come to your booth versus

somebody else's both.

Yes, exactly.

Okay. That's interesting to think about as we move forward,

for sure.

All right.

So let's move on to the future.

What are you working on right now?

You've talked a little bit about your kind of noodling in

your head,

what you might be able to do for more of a

warm weather product.

So I'm going to be watching for what that's going to

look like.

That sounds really interesting,

but what are you working on right now?

And what are your goals in the upcoming?

Let's say year,

See what I'm working on right now is to kind of

replenish my inventory and create new things for the year.

I have a show already set for the month of February,

and I'm trying to see to,

you know,

it took a little time for the shows to reappear that

way after the holidays,

like the one I used to go before the holidays has

not set up dates yet,

but my goal would be to try to do once a

month outdoor market once a month,

and to try to experiment more of my own yarn and

creations from scratch.

Absolutely. And also I'm going to start testing to see what

happens with a Homeline,

which is more thinking of for the summer,

like of pillows and throws and stuff.

Just those two are,

let's say not that kind of stuff.

Just those two,

like pillow covers and throws.

That's it.

I don't want to expand too much because I can't,

you know,

Oh, I like that.

That makes me really curious.

I love Because that gives another possibilities,

for example,

for different materials that I can use.

And also people would be more inclined to look at that

in the heat than to think of.

Oh, I'm going to try a shawl around my shoulders when

it's super hot.

All right.

So where would you direct people to go to see your

products? Learn more about you?

Where would be the one place online you would want them

to go?

Oh, my website for sure.

Yes. Please go and visit.

My website is designs.com

and there,

you're going to find so more about me,

more about my values and what I stand for and also

all my pieces and the ways to obviously to see all

of them,

appreciate some by them.

Yeah. Beautiful.

And then I would say on Instagram too,

I do have Instagram shop.

So you can buy through Instagram and Facebook.

And Instagram is the thing that I update the most often.

So that also gives you an idea of where I am.

So, and there's always the same name in Atlanta season.

Wonderful. And we didn't get into this today,

but there are a lot of people who are so anxious

and nervous about putting up their own website and you have

created yourself a gorgeous,

gorgeous site.

And I watched the evolution of that and it's just fabulous.

So it can be done.

Absolutely. It can be done.

Yeah. And I did it all myself and I made sure

that every single thing that is there is absolutely mine.

Like all the photos you find there are mine.

I took those photos,

but it's possible.

It's doable.

Absolutely. It just,

it requires time.

And you know,

if you remember the process,

there were moments when I was really frustrated because I couldn't

get to what I wanted,

but you can do it.

And you just put it as a goal.

Absolutely. But a date when I will be ready by this

date and work towards it.

Yeah. That's right.

So that's just the website,

but what would you say to somebody who's listening right now

who is thinking of starting their business or was like,

you were way back,

you know,

you've given some products to friends,

family, you've gotten some good feedback,

but you really haven't dove into starting walking down the path

of starting a business.

What would you say to that one?

Well, first of all,

what I would say is,

is it you're doing what you love doing because I feel

like if you really do what you love and you got

proof from people around you,

that what you do is beautiful and it's worth showing to

the rest of the world.

Then that is a very good start.

And then I would just say,

just, you know,

go for it.

Absolutely go for it.

Put all your passion and your time and creativity and let

go of expectations.

And don't listen to criticism,

especially if it is done,

listen to negative criticism,

Including your own.

Yes. And listen to people who love you and who can

give you good feedback.

I just read something yesterday.

It's funny.

So you don't listen to the criticism of people that you

would not go to us for advice.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah. If you're not,

don't pay attention to that.

And I can tell you a little thing that happened to

me many months ago,

I posted a photo on Instagram and of one of my

pieces and it was from the bottom of the loom.

And it,

you could see the texture of the piece,

but you could see through it.

And I got this comment from someone I don't know who

was kind of a negative comment.

Like, you know,

something like,

Oh, I wouldn't do it that way.

Something like that.

And I said,

why would you say that to someone you don't know?

Really? It's like,

absolutely not that common made me think.

I don't care about what you say.

Really. You know,

you don't know me,

you don't understand what I'm doing and I'm not going to

pay attention to those kinds of comments.

And since then,

I think nothing else,

no one else said something like that,

but it made me think know,

wow, that shocked me.

That someone would say that and just go on,

put it aside,

continue going where you're going and don't pay attention to those

negative things.

Yeah. Excellent advice.

Because we're going to get them.

There are just people online who are going to be that

way. So that was a great story to share.

And I'm glad to hear that.

You could just brush it off.

Just let it go.

Not affect you and carry on.

Okay. Hamina this has been wonderful.

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

The business is evolving.

We know where you're looking at going sometime in the future.

Maybe even full time,

which means there'll be more of your gorgeous items out for

us all to have Let's hope.

Well, thank you so much,

Sue. I love being with you.

It was really nice to talk and to share all these

things with your audience.

One of the things I admire the most about Hamina is

that she knows the value of her product,

and isn't afraid to charge what it's worth as an upscale

artist. She doesn't need to sell the value.

A more modestly priced product maker does.

It's a different business model that works within her life,

beautifully one isn't better than another.

And there are many factors that play into your pricing position,

but Khomeini does a wonderful job of representing and staying true

to her quality and her pricing.

All that make up her beautiful brand.

Hamina could not have done all of this without the right

mindset. That's the topic we'll dive into next week,

tackling the self-imposed limiting beliefs that come up and here's something

to know.

This will happen all the way through your business journey.

So if you're just starting,

it doesn't mean that when you see success like Romania has

those doubt magically disappear.

It's a matter of facing them head on and learning how

to deal with them.

That for next Monday,

thank you so much for spending time with me today.

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So it's a nice way to pay it forward.

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And I'll see you again next week on the gift biz

on wrapped package.

Yes. I want to make sure you're familiar with my free

Facebook group called gift biz breeze.

It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reaction from other people and just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making my favorite posts every single week,

without doubt.

Wait, what,

aren't you part of the group already,

if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search

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