116 – Living the Tuscan Dream with Pam Mercer of Tuscany Tours

Hi there.

You're listening to gift biz unwrapped episode 116.

I suppose there are people who would say we just jumped

and we had great success,

but we really built this business.

And we also built our life because we moved from one

culture to another.

Hi, this is John Lee,

Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,

and you're listening to gift to biz unwrapped.

And now it's time to light it.

Welcome to gift bears on wrapped your source for industry specific

insights and advice to develop and grow your business.

And now here's your host,

Sue Mona height.

Before we get into the show,

I have a question for you.

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Well, I'm here to tell you that it doesn't need to

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If you know what to do to help you with this,

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And now let's move on to the show.

Hi, there it's Sue and welcome to the gift biz unwrapped

podcast, whether you own a brick and mortar shop sell online

or are just getting started,

you'll discover a new insight to gain traction and to grow

your business.

And today I have the joy of introducing you to Pam

Mercer of Tuscany tours.

Tuscany tours is a small business owned and operated by Pam

and her husband,

Sam hilt.

They live and work from a small Hilltop town near Sienna,

Italy. That is when they're not out touring with a home

of their travelers,

but boy,

doesn't that sound like just a little bit of heaven.

It all started with a trip from California to Tuscany just

over 25 years ago.

Little did they know that this experience would change their thinking

and change their lives?

growing ever since Pam calls it a privilege to receive travelers

and share their beautiful countries of Italy and France in groups

of no more than 16.

She connects her travelers to local places and people tastes and

traditions. Pam calls it magical,

and I can see why Pam welcome to the show.

Thanks dude.

That was a wonderful interview.

Objection. You stated beautifully what it is that we do.

Thank you.

I'm so excited to hear more,

but before we get started,

it's a tradition here on the show to have you describe

yourself in a little bit more of a creative way.

And that is by having us envision your ideal motivational candle

that really speaks to you.

So if you were to tell us the color and the

quote on your very own candle,

what would that be?

Well, the color would be Indigo blue and there's the blue

that the sky gets in Colorado.

It also is the same.

I've seen the same blue in Sicily,

much deeper than a Robin's egg blue.

And it would simply say on plug and that could be

meditate in the morning or sit out and watch the sun

rise. So it would be to take a moment every day

where you are not tuned out through social media or relating

to anyone else,

but you are tuned in and connecting through the beauty of

nature or through meditation to your spirit and your soul.

I think that's so important.

And a lot of people are really talking about this now

because as people who own your businesses,

there's so much stress that they're showing that some of that

health-wise is really,

really important and beneficial.

You know,

it's funny because there's this feeling when you own your own

business, that your work is never done,

and there's some truth to that.

But on the other hand,

if you're constantly chasing it and constantly your brain is trying

to problem solve,

everyone talks about this has been proven,

scientifically that if we actually take some time away from that,

then we can do everything so much better.

And I think multitasking is really not a good idea for

business owners,

because then you really can potentially lose a really good solution

that you might arrive at if you're really paying attention and

meditating or taking time out helps you to be able to

develop that kind of attention.

I agree With you there.

Absolutely. All right.

I want to go back to the beginning of your story

because it's so intriguing.

Tell us what happened on that trip almost 25 years ago,

or so what,

how did everything get started?

How did this idea form,

This was back before Tuscany sort of everyone came.

So we had friends who had been living here.

They had actually discovered this tiny little village.

They said,

come and visit us.

So we came and visited.

They were the only Americans who had lived in that area

ever. And every afternoon in the summer,

a lot of people would go and sit outside underneath this

huge tree,

because it's really hot in the summertime in Italy.

And we were working at that time in the corporate world.

And we would sit out under the tree and for the

first half hour where we would Twitch,

you know,

like people were doing nothing,

they were reading or playing cards or reading the newspaper,

or, you know,

just talking.

And after a while though,

we could feel time's starting to shift.

And we began to relax and really relate to the people

that we were hanging out with.

So we fell in love with the culture,

but also Sam,

my husband was studying a Renaissance philosopher at the time.

And we went to the FEC,

which is where all the great Renaissance paintings are.

And he saw the paintings,

which he had seen many years before when he was in

college traveling,

but he said,

I am going to switch my PhD and I'm going to

write about the paintings.

And so that was sort of the germ of how it

all got started.

And then you fast forward to when he actually had his

PhD completed and the Dean of the Unitarian church,

one of the colleges in San Francisco,

Sam was teaching a class on sacred art.

And the Dean of that seminary asked him,

would you like to do a two week seminar in Tuscany?

And I will market it to all of the Unitarians across

the country.

And by that time,

and I had been coming to Italy every time,

every chance we could get on vacation for a few years.

And Sam said,

Oh, yes,

let's do that.

And we didn't know at the time that we were going

to have a three month old baby with us,

but we committed,

she sold out the tour.

And then we discovered that,

Oh, okay.

Our first child was going to be born three months before

that. And Sam said,

you know,

we don't have to do this.

And I said,

are you kidding me?

We're going to do this.

And so we did.

Wow. That's crazy.

Well, that could not have been a hard decision to say

yes to that.

Oh yeah.

I mean,

it was all set up perfectly.

It was,

but this could have been a very pivotal point,

Pam and I think this is interesting for our listeners to

think about is you had every reason to say,

you know what,

not right now,

because your daughter was being born.

She would have been young.

And you know,

there was definitely another element of the whole trip,

but you said,

no, we're still doing it.

That's actually a really interesting point for people who are wanting

to start their own businesses.

Because I think a lot of times we think,

well, you know,

we can't do this.

If the kids are little and making sort of just committing,

yes, you can do it.

And sometimes in fact it's even better because you can,

you know,

our kids used to travel with us and you have to

get support.

We had an Annie obviously,

because I didn't want to be leading a group and having

somebody needs something and not being able to meet that need

to get your kids involved in your business and help them

to understand I run this business and I am going to

not be able to be there at dinner with you,

but tomorrow for lunch,

we'll sit down together and I will focus on you.

So it can be a deterrent,

but it can also be something really wonderful for your kids

to see.

Sure. Because they're really experiencing that side of the business with

you. So there's a little bit of ownership there too.

Yeah. And learning how grownups Take responsibility and can be creative

and have an entrepreneurial spirit.

I bet my kids will someday run their own businesses because

they've always seen us do that.

Sure. So as your business was advancing,

how did it come to be that you decided,

cause you were living in California for a while.

And then when did you make the switch and how did

you guys decide?

All right.

You know what?

We're leaving America,

we're planting ourselves a hundred percent over in Italy.

We did it slowly funny because I suppose there are people

who would say we just jumped and we had great success,

but we really built this business.

And we also built our life because we moved from one

culture to another.

And we did that very slowly,

building a group of friends here,

building a community so that when we came,

we would all feel that we were coming to something that

was already created.

And after we did that first seminar,

we created a website that was called welcome to the Renaissance.

But the URL was www.tuscanytours.com.

And that URL has really been the backbone of our business

success. Oh,

for sure.

That was way back before the term super highway had even

been created,

but we were doing it part time.

So we have this wonderful job.

We were consultants.

We called our own time and we would always say,

when we signed a contract,

look, we're gone.

We will con but we will be around during that time.

So we would come over and leave one or two tours

a year.

And we kept doing both.

We had a corporate training company,

we would do that.

And then we would come over and do this.

And now I'm going to wait for just a minute because

the bells,

right? Oh,

is that what it is?

Those are bells.

Yeah. That is super.

Okay. So gift biz listeners,

you have to understand Pam is in Italy right now.

Describe where you are for everybody right now.

Just real quick.

Okay. So I'm sitting,

looking out at beautiful stone walls with those gorgeous tiles on

them. And the bells are ringing for the six o'clock mass

and at least 20 people from the little village,

which there are only 250 people.

We'll be going over to the six o'clock mass.

You may hear them talking outside my window and it's really

as beautiful and magical as you imagine it to be.

That's wonderful.

And I'm so glad that that's happening right while we're here

recording. That's perfect.

I love that.

It's interesting.

You know,

the Tuscans still really have a relationship to time.

That's very much controlled by the hours of the day.

For instance,

at the end of the day,

there's a bell that tells everybody it's evening come in from

the fields,

even though nobody's out working in the fields anymore.

And you know,

they have their cell phones to tell them what they're doing,

but the bells ring on the hour,

every hour,

they stop at midnight.

They start again at seven time is marked in this really

beautiful way.

Oh, that's wonderful.

While we're on this subject,

because you just heard Pam explain a little bit about the

culture and that's what is so great about your tours?

I've been fortunate enough to go girl trip with you.

We had five of our family members all together.

We were probably like part of your tour group that you

worry about because we were also crazy.

However, I know a lot about the value that you bring

with the group.

Explain a little bit about your theory,

I guess,

or your mission behind your tour.

You know,

it's so interesting because one of the things that I feel

like we've sort of lost a bit in the culture in

America is that slow time.

And there's,

you know,

a huge movement now in Italy.

And I think America to slow travel,

slow food.

And the idea is that you really take time over a

meal and you enjoy your food and you really have a

conversation. And one of the things that Sam my husband does

with art is he has this way of opening up the

art in a way that your imagination is really interacting with

and encountering the art.

Yes, it's important who painted it and when,

but that's like such a minor thing.

The rest of it is okay,

look at that face from this angle.

What do you see?

How does it look now,

walk around to the other side and your imagination wakes up

and you start to encounter these sculptures,

which when they were created,

people who were looking at them actually believed that they could

communicate to you not straightforwardly,

but in a magical artistic way.

So we're sort of trying to give people a deep experience.

That's what I would say of the art,

the food,

which is extraordinary,

the wine.

And then just to give them a place where they can

breathe. We have sometimes three hour meals and people will say,

Oh my gosh,

that was just amazing.

I learned so much from the people at the table that

I was sitting and talking with somebody once said,

it's like camp for grownups.

I would agree with that for sure.

Yeah. And you,

do you get immersed just like you were talking about earlier,

when you were sitting under that tree,

one of the first times that you were there and it

took a little while to click into like a slower pace

and just living,

just being,

not thinking about the next project you had to do or

something like that tours so often are just that you said

you have lunch real quick and you gotta do it fast

because you have tickets to go to the next observation or

site or whatever.

And so you're always running so fast and pretty soon the

trip is over,

but you haven't really necessarily experienced anything.

What I've found when I traveled with you is we got

a lot of that really deep experience and counterintuitive a little

bit because it was slower,

but the experiences were deeper.

You know,

that's interesting too.

Cause I'm trying to think about how to relate that to

people who are wanting to start their own businesses.

In some ways we really did not follow a path of

let's create a tour company,

you know,

which is what we have,

but that's not what we created.

We took something we loved and we went a different direction

with it.

Then most people would,

if they were starting a tour company for us,

it's much more about the art,

the experience we didn't say,

okay, how can we put in all these things?

So that will attract the most amount of people.

It was more like,

okay, we're going to have less people who will want to

travel with us because we're going to attract the people who

probably don't want to go on a tour,

but they want these other things that we're offering.

So we found something we loved and we sort of went

a different direction than everybody else was going.

And that's a way to maybe think about if you're starting

a business or you want to follow your passion is what

do I love about it that nobody else is doing with

it? Absolutely.

Because then what you're doing is defining yourself and separating yourself

to be different than anybody else.

And that also then can go through all of your marketing.

And just like you're saying,

Pam, you're not going to be the one for everybody,

but there is a group of people out there who so

want what you offer and you are the only one you're

unique in that way.

Some people think that when the audience is smaller,

it's going to make it harder.

It actually makes it easier.

Yeah. That's the point.

I think you just put your finger on it.

That's exactly the point.

And it works Telling us it works.

And I know it works cause you keep expanding more tours

and all of that.

But I thought this was really interesting too,

Pam, you and I last week when I started asking you

about whether you would be on the show had just come

back from Poland and I'm thinking,

Oh my gosh,

are you guys expanding into Poland?

And what did you tell me Said,

no, I went there because I'm a singer.

That's what I do on the side.

And I went to a singing workshop and I would never

want to go past France or Italy,

maybe Spain.

We're probably going to add a little bit in Spain.

It's for two reasons.

One, one of our goals is to connect travelers,

to real people in an area.

So not just like we call an incoming tour operator and

say, give us any guide on this date,

but we want to meet all of the guides.

We want to know their personalities and we want to choose

the ones who fit our travelers.

So we spend at least six to six weeks to three

months overall in a place before we will ever even begin

to think about an itinerary for a trip.

So that's one thing.

And then our expertise is really in the area of Italy

and France.

Poland is a completely different culture,

the Italians and the French think they're really different,

but there's a lot of similarities there.

And we don't want to try to step out of our

area of expertise.

So when you're growing,

you're growing,

but still within what you already do and are known for

versus bringing on another layer.

I think so.

And I also think that at some point had to make

a decision to not grow past a certain point.

And I'll give you an example.

At some point in time,

we decided Sam and I go on all the tours.

It's either both of us or one or the other of

us. Then we also have local guides who people meet and

they always ride and say,

Oh, how's Chiara or how's Lee,

or we miss them,

you know,

so they get to meet local guides.

And then we oftentimes will have an escort who goes on

the tour with either me or with Sam.

So we give a lot of real hands-on attention.

But at some point in time,

we realized we can't do more than 10 to 12 tours

a year because we will burn out.

So how can we use the knowledge we have and go

in yet another direction?

And so what we decided is that we would do some

trip planning for people who want to come,

but they don't want to go on a tour,

but we'll set them up with the guides we've met.

We'll send them to the restaurants where the people we know

own the restaurants and know they're coming from us and we'll

provide them with a magical trip that we may or may

not meet them.

But we're sharing the resources that we have.

And at a certain point in time,

if someone calls me and they say,

well, we want you to plan our trip.

I may have to say,

I'm sorry.

I can't,

because right now I have too many travelers and I don't

want to not give you the attention you need,

nor do I want to pull my attention away from them.

And that's a scary thing to say no to work,

but in the long run it works because then my sort

of philosophy is,

and I suppose,

you know,

this is an American business philosophy.

I think that is really true.

If you deliver what you are promising with the best quality

and the most care and you follow through that is the

greatest key to your success.

That's right.

You know,

in your example,

if you were to rush through,

because you didn't want to say no,

the product that you produce for them may be sub par

and that's not what you want to start getting known for

either. Right?

It's true.

So I think if as listeners,

there are a couple of really important business guidelines that we've

just talked about.

So I want to review them real quick.

The first one is sticking to the core of what you're

already known for.

Okay. So in this example,

cam is known for the culture of the countries that she's

working within,

the knowledge that she has.

I mean,

that's her core business.

That's what she knows.

So an extension of that core can be individual tours,

but this idea of picking up a country that is totally

different in culture,

like Poland would be isn't where she should go.

So she stayed with her core.

So relate that a little bit to your business or what

you're thinking about with your business.

The second thing is she's talking about her level of growth,

you know,

in how much she wants to actually do.

We're so fortunate as business owners that we can define how

big our business is going to be.

And continual growth growing,

growing, growing may not be the best thing for you.

I mean,

there may be a certain point.

You want to cap it and say,

this is as much as I can do because this allows

me to retain the happiness and the joy and the passion

that I had in my business in the first place.

If you try to always continue to grow and grow,

you might grow yourself right out of what you loved and

why you started what you're doing in the first place.

Couple of things to think about there.

Pan, I want to switch it up a little bit because

I know you're going to have some really interesting things to

talk about on this angle.

And that is customer service because clearly you are interacting with

your customers.

You have to,

that is the business.

Not only when you're on the tours,

but before the tours,

after the tours,

potentially all of that.

How do you work with your customers to make sure that

from the initial point of contact,

they're getting a stellar experience all the way through?

Well, let's talk about the tours that we do first.

And it's interesting because we actually do set up a private

Facebook page for our group.

So nobody else can see it.

And no one else is a part of it,

except for the people who travel.

And that's been a really wonderful thing for us.

And here are the belts again,

just to remind you,

if you didn't hear them the first time we're going To

have a musical podcast today.

That's So funny.

I think it's sort of like,

that's very Italian.

It's like we'll ring them at six.

You know,

people are kind of slow and they sort of forget that

we rang them.

We'll ring them again individually.

We'll all arrive at mass.

Oh, that's funny.

So these Facebook groups,

are they individual per tour or is it for anyone who's

taken a tour?

We have right now individual pages.

And eventually we will have one for anybody who has traveled

with us in the past.

I will tell you about the individual pages first.

It's a wonderful way for people to get information.

One of the people who works for us,

her name is Karen.

And she is fantastic about saying,

okay, here's a video of the Duomo.

Here's 10 things you need to know about packing.

So they get a lot of information through that.

Facebook page we've even had people who were on it in

an airport and they would say I'm in the Chicago airport

and I'm about to leave.

And somebody else who was coming on the tour,

who they didn't know would say,

Hey, where are you?

We're over at Joe's bar and grill.

And they'd say,

Oh yeah,

come on over.

So they would meet up before they even came because they

were messaging,

you know,

on Facebook.

So it's a way of creating a community before people arrive.

And it's also a way of giving people the information,

because when you travel,

you need to know a lot of things.

So that's one thing.

And then we are in the process of setting up a

travelers page for people who have gone on any tour at

any point of time.

And the reason for that is that people had started now

coming on to tours,

three tours,

four tours.

And there's sort of this Tuscany tourist community.

Well, not sort of there is.

And they all speak to each other a lot on my

Facebook page because I friend people who travel with us and

they share information and they share memories and they serve photos

and people start to get interested in people's lives.

That is sort of happened,

not intentionally on my part,

but it's been a by-product of Facebook and it's been a

wonderful thing.

It helps people to sort of feel connected to the world

of travel,

to Italy,

to food,

and then to each other.

Yeah. And to feel connected in an easy way,

because so many times with a trip afterwards,

you'll get people's email addresses,

but it's still a challenge to stay together.

And on Facebook,

you know,

when you create a Facebook group,

like what you're talking about so much easier just to be

able to jump in real quick,

see what's going on,

add your 2 cents and really stay connected.

The power of Facebook groups.

Everybody cannot be underestimated.

Everyone who's in the group starts to feel a little bit

of ownership contributes.

So even though you need to jump in or have a

community manager,

who's looking at the group from time to time,

they really do start fueling themselves.

It's really true.

You know,

and I now have people who are Facebook,

friends, who one person's been on that tour.

One person's been on that tour and they've never been on

a tour together,

but they're constantly talking about whatever they're interested in.

And one of the things that that can do for businesses,

it helps people see that you're real because there are people

who are real,

who are relating to you,

especially if it's an online business,

people want to understand that you really exist.

And if they see other people relating to you through the

Facebook page,

they get a sense of like,

well, those people are talking to her.

She must be real For sure.

That's a really good point.

I'm glad you brought that Facebook pages.

I think really help establish credibility,

especially if you're really interacting for real,

when it's not just marketing.

Most of our travelers are from the U S I would

say 75%.

And then we have Canadians people from South Africa,

really people from English,

speaking countries,

a lot of travelers from Australia,

the Australians and the Texans love to travel.

We get a lot of people from Texas.

Interesting. And so just one final comment,

I guess,

on the Facebook groups is when you're talking about it,

makes people know that you're real,

that's really important because of the international flow.

If you're not in the same country,

you might be able to relate a little less or are

a little bit more concerned in this.

Totally eliminates any concern on that.

That's a really good point.

And sometimes people don't even realize that we live in Italy

full time.

They think,

Oh, they are now they'll be back another point.

This is not just exactly connected to what we were just

saying. But if you're an expert in an area and part

of what your business is about is sharing your expertise.

Facebook can be a brilliant way to do that.

I mean,

I love to post paintings and then write a little something

about them or post an article about the top 10 restaurants

in Florence and say,

Oh my gosh,

the top three,

they're horrible.

I been there recently.

So it's a way for me to share the fact that

I know what I'm talking about.

I know what I'm doing.

I live here.

Right. And Facebook is a way of showing that.

Excellent. I'm glad you brought that up.

Okay. I'm going to twist this a little bit,

possibly make you a little bit less comfortable.

Pam, is there a time when you had an issue with

some of your travelers or something happened that you really were

challenged about how you were going to deal with the situation?

I'm thinking all in,

under the umbrella of customer service,

because we all know we're all different as people and dealing

with people can sometimes get challenging.

Is there one that you saw that you're like,

Oh my gosh,

this was such a struggle.

And then what did you do to make it all?

Okay. In the end,

This is an uncomfortable question.

I'm sure it would be for anybody.

I'm a perfectionist.

And so when I can't fix something,

it's very difficult.

And actually this is something I think if you are going

to own your own business,

I've had to learn this,

but you sort of have to be able to face.

Was it a mistake that I made that I could have

controlled? And I really should've done something differently or was it

a mistake that was really out of my control and I

can't lose sleep over it because I really couldn't have controlled

it. And then just let it go.

And so,

like an example of the first thing is I had a

couple arrive once in Venice and their hotel had not been

booked. We had booked it,

but we hadn't gotten the final confirmation.

The hotel thought we didn't really want it.

So they arrived.

They're exhausted.

They have no hotel room,

totally my fault.

And so I had to fix that and they loved their

trip. And,

you know,

the way I fixed it was by finding them a wonderful

hotel and calling my friend,

Diane, she's married to an Italian and she owns one of

the best restaurants in Venice.

And I said,

Diane, I need to send these folks to have dinner with

you and just I'll pay you later.

And she said,

of course,

of course.

So they went to Alcoa,

had a wonderful dinner and they forgave me because I think

they realize that we're all human and sometimes mistakes happen.

Now that's the only time that's ever happened.

Knock on wood,

but it was my mistake.

I had to fix it.

They allowed me to fix it and forgive me for my

mistakes. That was a good time.

Let me stop You hearing,

just make a point about that.

There's a couple of things that are really great.

Number one,

you have personal connection with a lot of contacts.

A lot of them are the people that you are going

to the restaurants with hotels.

So forming those relationships,

the value for our gift is listeners.

They're probably more vendors,

you know,

people who they're getting product from perhaps whatever it is that

allowed you to call in a favor when you really,

really needed it.

I think the other thing I want to point out again

for our listeners is sometimes when you make a mistake,

it's a golden opportunity because just like Pam,

did she took responsibility for what happened and not only did

she correct it,

she over-corrected.

So it's an opportunity to really show that the value of

your business lies in the experience that your customers have.

So you get to above and beyond.

And I would guess that this couple Pam went back and

talked about how great the trip was and the fact that

they had this super fabulous dinner as a make good for

what happened.

So it probably put you in even a better light,

even though initially it was a challenge and a struggle,

Totally paid off.

They've been back again and they refer people to me all

the time.

That's not why I did it as much as I really

wanted them to have a magical time.

And it was totally disturbing to me that it was starting

off not magical.

So I had to make it magical.

I had to do a twist to make it magical and

it did work.

It does.

I mean,

I think customer service is like,

obviously caring so much is a lot of what causes success.

So a good point.

So if we're ever in that situation,

what we should do is just stop for half a second

and think,

okay, how can I turn this around so that it will

be really,

really good for the customer.

Most importantly,

and you know,

what can I do to turn this from a lemon into

lemonade? The best example I can say right now.

All right.

So you were talking about this one you were in control

of, I think you had one that you were going to

share with us about when you weren't.

Okay. One That I couldn't fix,

it was actually a kind of a cumulation of things.

We will buy tickets for our private clients to go and

see things like Michelangelo's David,

the board,

gays, a gallery,

so that they have a reservation.

We had bought tickets for a family of seven to see

the Borges,

the gallery,

and the day before they were to see it,

I got an email that said,

we've oversold the Borges gallery,

and you won't be able to get these tickets.

We had ordered them months before we had paid for them.

And I didn't even know I'd never experienced that.

And why that was able to happen is kind of a

long background story,

but it happened.

And it was like,

I had to tell this family who was only in Rome

one day,

I'm sorry,

you can't go to see the board David gallery.

I had my staff working,

trying to see if there were any tickets,

anywhere else.

We probably spent 10 hours just go here,

go there,

call that person,

do this.

And we couldn't fix it.

And it was horrible for me.

And yet I knew that there was nothing,

you know,

that I did everything I could to mitigate it and fix

it. And I couldn't.

So finally,

you know,

after three or four days of having a knot in my

stomach, I just said,

I got to let go this.

I just have to let go of it.

And also never use that company again.

It was a reputable company though.

And you do have to buy tickets from someone there's all

of that.

But when somebody else does something,

you can't control it.

That's when it's really hard,

but you have to let go of it.

I think the quality of your life will just be horrible

if you are constantly worrying about everything.

Yeah. So what did you do?

How did you approach the customer and what did you do

with them for that day?

Then We offered them a different experience.

They were not happy and I think they did not ever

forgive me for it.

So I had to get over that too,

because they were people that I really cared about.

I had worked with them and cultivated a relationship and I

really did care about them.

So that was hard.

I had to say,

okay, I'm sorry that that was your reaction,

but I really couldn't control that one,

but I was very clear.

I mean,

immediately when we found out,

when I got this email,

I forwarded it to the clients and I said,

look, I need to let you know that I just got

this email.

And I am now going to go to work to try

to fix the problem.

And this is actually interesting because sometimes you don't want to

let your client know that you have a problem because you

might be able to fix it.

But in that case,

I really needed their expectation.

If they had their expectation that they were going to do

this, plus I needed to find an alternative that they would

like. And the more time I had to find that the

better off I was.

And so I wanted their input.

If I can't fix this,

you know,

what's your next thing that you would like to do the

most that I can help happen?

Well, it's a good point because unfortunately we can't control everything

as much as we try to.

Unfortunately, there will be times when a customer is disappointed after

you've done everything you can.

And sometimes I found this in my business,

although it's rare.

Luckily, sometimes the customer just isn't a good fit.

You know,

it's just not going to work out.

And so sometimes you have to let those customers go,

You know,

in this case,

I think the customer was a good fit.

It was just their disappointment.

But what you just said made me really think of something,

which is,

you know,

that old term from sales of qualifying your customer.

One of the things that I do for our tour business

is I call people when they request information and they give

a phone number and I'm calling them,

obviously, because I'd like to sell my tours to them.

But at the same time,

I'm really telling them what we are like and finding out

what they are like,

and whether they're a good fit.

And there are some people who I will call and I

will talk to them.

And I will say,

I don't think we're the right company for you either.

You need to go to a more luxurious tour company where

you're going to be staying at five-star hotels,

or maybe Rick Steves is a better fit for you.

Hey, there's a plug for Rick spade.

There you go.

It's like,

or whatever it is.

And that works so well because then when I get these

groups on tours,

everybody always says,

Oh my God are all your groups this amazing.

And I say,

they are.

And it's because when I talk to them,

they know whether they like what I do,

what we do,

and they know whether it's right for them.

And I know whether they're right for us,

that's a huge key to our success is getting the right

fit. I love that.

And you know,

there's also a responsibility in a way indirectly to the rest

of the people who were in the group,

because you want everyone to feel good about being together and

be comfortable with each other,

to the extent.

I mean,

you're not in control of that either,

but just by knowing what their expectations are and their personalities

a little bit helps to make that work properly too.

It's true.

Well, we could go on have so much great information Pam,

we could go on for so long,

but I want to circle into now a couple of things

that you perhaps do in your day to make sure that

everything comes across properly.

Is there a tool or something that you use physically,

like, so in the office that you're using all the time,

maybe it's a scheduler.

I'm not sure what it is in your industry,

but that you think would be valuable for our listeners to

know. Well,

I have a colleague who works in California,

so we have a California office and then we have a

woman who works.

Part-time in Florence,

Italy, and then she's,

part-time in Florida in the U S and we now have

just started working with a wonderful young woman here in Italy.

So the four of us really need to be able to

communicate with each other a lot.

And we use WhatsApp and we use Skype.

We have Skype meetings at least once a week.

And we use a team project management program.

It's not really project management,

but it's more like having a team to do lists.

It's called a sauna.

Some of us love a sauna.

Some of us hate it.

We're still kind of trying to get our minds around it.

But within that,

I will say that one of the things that has been

helpful for me is to try to define what tools we

communicate on.

And by that,

I mean,

in Skype,

we have meetings where we have conversations,

but if somebody texts me in Skype and says,

I need this from you,

I say to them,

Oh yes.

Remember that when you need something from me,

you send me an email because I'm not going to go

back through Skype and try to figure out what my action

items are.

So Skype is for talking.

Email is for what you need.

And WhatsApp is for talking.

There are all these technologies out there for communicating.

And I think if you have to go and look at

all of them to figure out what is needed from you,

it can make your brain blow up.

So defining and I have clients now who will start to

text me on messenger and I'll say,

you know,

Paulette, would you mind please sending me an email?

Cause I want to steer her away from thinking,

because I don't look at messenger every day,

but I look at email every day.

So qualifying your technology is what you're going to use.

Each thing to do,

I think is a helpful thing That is really smart.

And then making sure you continually educating people that that's where

they should go for this particular project,

et cetera.

Yeah. I actually use a VA in the Philippines after we're

done right now.

I let her know that this is done just by what

I put on the little boards and that I've ticked off

my responsibilities.

So she'll know then,

and can pick it up and she'll do the initial edits.

And then it triggers back to me to review the final

edits, you know,

and all the other stuff that we do.

But so it's nice because you can just see right in

a sauna when the projects getting handed back to you.

So anybody who's in that type of a situation,

I agree with you.

Assata's fabulous in that manner and Pam great description in terms

of different technologies for specific purposes,

I'd love that.

That's perfect in terms of keeping yourself up to date with

the industry or possibly the culture or new things that are

going on,

is there a book or some other resource that you continually

go back to to help you stay up to date?

Oh yes.

And it's interesting because once again,

Facebook helps me.

I have so many connections to particularly food people and like

Alec Lebruno in France.

And I rely on his going out and eating at all

the restaurants in Paris.

So I don't have to because,

you know,

I can't really do that,

but he does.

And I have identified that his taste is my taste and

my clients are probably also going to be more like me.

And more like him.

Katie Parla is a wonderful food blog,

history, wonderful,

incredible person in her own.

Elizabeth men,

Chile, she's got great apps,

I'm a generalist.

And one of the things I love is finding specialists that

I can then connect my clients to.

And there are people out there who are writing on the

street, food and Sicily,

that's their thing.

And so I find them and I find them by doing

online research,

I find them because they're connected through other writers that I

connected with on Facebook.

Sometimes I'll find them in travel and leisure.

Although I feel like that tends to be more of a

generalist and less of a specific place,

but one person's blog that is listing all the people they

read is worth a million dollars.

Absolutely. Would you be able to email me three of your

favorites that I could include in the show notes page?

I would love to.

All right.

That'll be awesome.

I just thought of somebody else,

Cathy McCabe at dream of Italy,

she's got this amazing way of finding these little experiences that

are way off the beaten path.

And she writes beautifully about them.

She has a magazine called dream of Italy that we all

read and use as well.

Yeah, I'll send you links.

Perfect. And also while we're here,

why don't you give a little bit of an introduction into

Sam's book Sam,

actually Four books out there.

The one about our lives here is called turning Tuscan.

And it will make you be careful that you're not drinking

red wine when you read it,

because at one point you will laugh out loud and you

will spit your wine across the road.

He loves this place,

but he's not writing from the romantic point of view.

He's writing from the realist comedic point of view.

He has a chapter called David's penis,

right? So he has a chapter on toilet seats.

It's a very intriguing book and it's not really along the

lines of I came here.

It was so wonderful.

I loved it.

And everything was,

it was like,

Oh my God,

I came here and it made my head spin.

And here's some things I noticed along the way.

Very fun.

All right.

And give biz listeners just as you're listening to the podcast

today, you can also listen to audio books.

I'm not sure if any of Sam's books are on audible,

but I've teamed up with audible for you to be able

to get an audio book for free on me if you

haven't done so already.

So if that's of interest to you,

just jump over to gift biz,

book.com and you can make a selection of your first book

that is gift biz,

book.com. Pam.

I now want to invite you to dare to dream.

I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable

Heights that you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What's inside your box.

That's a very,

very good question.

I think my goal is actually pretty basic,

or it's not a goal.

It's a dream because I haven't yet started to do anything

about it.

I would love to have retreats for women,

which are not motivational.

And by that,

what I mean is we're not trying to improve ourselves.

We are going away and we are going to not look

at email or well,

WhatsApp you'd have to have,

because you'd want to be able to have access to your

kids. You know,

that's the thing you can not go away from,

but you spend the morning in silence,

reading, painting,

walking, nobody talks,

but you're there in a community.

Then you have an amazingly wonderful lunch,

some wine you go and you do an activity like,

you know,

you go to an art museum with a guide or you

have somebody come and talk to you about the fabrics of

the Renaissance or whatever the group is interested in.

You have dinner together.

And obviously you would talk about your business,

your kids,

your struggles,

but it would mostly be an unplug.

This goes back to at the beginning,

my candle,

just a time for people to really nurture their souls.

And so that's a dream I've had for a long time.

I'm so busy with my daily running of the business that

I haven't figured out a way to try to actualize that.

So it's a good thing that you came along to push

me. Well,

it's so interesting because I was so curious where this was

going when you first started.

But the other thing that made me think about this a

little bit too,

Pam, is this would open you up to possibly some local

people too,

because how often do you sit?

Like I'm only 20 miles from Chicago.

I never go in there.

You know,

cause I always think,

well, it's so close.

I'll access it later.

You know?

I mean,

I do go down to the city sometimes,

but there's so much around that maybe even some of the

local people,

little village over or so don't really experience because it's so

close, they don't even think about it.

So that could be a whole new audience for you actually

as well as travelers coming in,

who knows.

But I love that idea.

I mean just the whole concept of unplugged,

which I'll go back to in a second,

but give his listeners we've covered a lot.

You know,

that there's going to be a show notes page.

I'm going to have all of Pam and Sam's a link.

So you can see all,

everything about Tuscany tours,

the social media sites,

all of that.

They'll also be links to all of these resources,

the blogs that Pam's been talking about.

So all of that will be over on the show notesPage@giftbizonwrap.com

and Pam.

This has been absolutely fabulous.

You have exceeded my expectations because there's a lot of things

that we've gotten into that I wasn't anticipating and really,

really some great information you have,

like the dream job.

I think all of us could look in and say,

Oh my gosh,

if only we could be Pam because you're living in an

area that is so beautiful and so interesting and so peaceful

and this whole idea of being able to unplug,

I think all of us want to be there and be

experiencing that.

So thank you for sharing that concept with us also,

that's something that we can take from you and I'll try

to incorporate a little bit in our lives right now,

actually again,

thank you for meeting up with me on a Friday night,

we know it's Friday and we know lots of people have

plans because those bells had to keep ringing to get them

there. My wish for you is of course that the business

continues to grow to the point and in the way that

you would want.

And Pam may,

your candle always burns.

Where are you in your business building journey,

whether you're just starting out or already running a business and

you want to know your setup for success,

find out why taking the gift biz quiz,

access the quiz from your computer at fit dot L Y

slash gift biz quiz or from your phone by texting gift

biz quiz to four four two,

two, two.

Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the

next episode.

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