166 – Are You REALLY Serving Your Customers? with Jim Lederer of Bluegrass

Gift biz unwrapped episode 166,

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Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hi Sue,

and thank you so much for joining me on another episode

of gift biz unwrapped.

At the time you're listening to this.

If you're listening the week that it's gone live,

my new book maker to master has been out now for

a couple of weeks.

And I have to tell you,

I am just so thankful to all of you who supported

me with this venture,

bought the book and have gotten in touch with me.

The responses have been incredible.

Some of them bringing tears to my eyes.

So thank you for that.

If you're listening here for the first time,

have no idea what I'm talking about and are interested in

checking out the book it's called maker to master,

and you can find it on Amazon,

but also through this link gift biz,

unwrapped.com forward slash SUSE book.

Now, the reason I bring it up is those of you

who have read already know.

I highlight business owners of a lot of companies that have

been represented on the podcast.

And I've done that because one of the reasons they've been

on this show is that they have been perfect examples of

the way to do business right in one way or another.

So in writing this book,

I brought up a company that I had not interviewed yet.

And actually they don't totally fit our area here of gifters

bakers, crafters and makers,

because this is a restaurant called bluegrass,

but they are a model business.

And I had to put them in as an example in

one of the chapters of the book.

So then yeah,

I had to have Jim come on and do an interview

with me.

So that's what this show is all about.

In fact,

it was funny because I walked into his restaurant,

said hello to him.

And I'm like,

Jim, we got to schedule a time for you to be

on the show because you're going to be in my book

and to be in my book,

you have to be on the show.

And he's like,

okay, when let's do it.

So that does gives you a little behind the scenes peak

of what gym is all about.

And it's clearly going to come through.

When you listen to him speaking,

let's have me stop rambling on and on.

Let's get to the show today.

It is my pleasure to introduce you to Jim letterer of

bluegrass. Jim has spent over 30 years in the restaurant business.

Some companies he's worked for that.

You will recognize even if you're not local and from Chicago

are Stouffer's restaurant corporation,

Dan Roths and Crawdaddy Bayou.

Jim has also traveled and consulted in the food and beverage

industry for universal hospitality.

And he started the restaurant row hospitality group,

which empowered a number of independent restaurant tears while he was

president of the board of the willing and prospect Heights chamber

of commerce 14 years ago,

Jim decided to go off on his own and open bluegrass.

He's taken the fine dining approach to a casual setting,

adding in traditional Southern cuisine and a lively atmosphere.

Now give biz listeners.

I have to tell you,

bluegrass is one of my all time favorite places to dine.

So I am thrilled to bring Jim to you so you

can hear all about his successes.

If you don't know bluegrass,

and you're not in the Chicago area,

you're just going to have to trust me.

It is the place to be Jim,

welcome to the show.

Thanks. So I am really excited.

You know,

I'm there often,

but I don't really know a lot of the backstory.

So this is going to be really fun for me to

learn all about the business and Howard started.

Excellent. Yeah,

no, there's a lot that went into creating what I have

and it's been a lot of fun.

That's been the best part.

You're going to tell me all about it.

But before that,

I want to have you describe yourself in a creative way.

And that is by sharing what your ideal motivational candle would

look like.

So if there was a special color and a quote that

you would put on a candle that just totally speaks you,

what would your candle look like?

Mike handle change or be change is kind of how I've

always looked at life.

And I always see colors and rainbow is a big part

of how I look at things and then flavor profiles and

taste profiles.

This business that I'm in,

it's kind of fun to create different stimuli because I've always

looked as dining is really hospitality and it's theater and people

always looking around and seeing different things.

Everybody sees different colors.

So I see a myriad of colors,

which is kind of fun.

And every day you see different things pop up.

Yeah. And I love that you equate that back to food,

like the different layers and depth of a dish,

right? Correct.

Okay. Why the restaurant industry,

how did that all happen?

Kind of fell into the restaurant business back in high school,

started throwing parties in my backyard.

And the neat thing was we weren't just throwing a little

parties when I was 15,

we were throwing parties and having four kegs in the backyard.

And that was something that was tolerated and possible today.

If you did that,

you'd probably be hung up.

And For sure,

for sure.

But I want to know why I wasn't invited to those

parties jump way back when In those days you weren't in

the neighborhood.

But as I created the different parties and we had these

things, I had one person charged the security,

I'd have one person in charge of sound.

I had one person in charge of the food.

It wasn't just a gathering,

we'd have three or 400 people.

And we did these column parties,

but it was really kind of a fun thing to create

and see it come to life.

That was some serious entertaining.

It really was,

but it was a big undertaking.

And the cool part was like for security,

I used to wrestle.

So the wrestling team came in,

drank free,

ate for free,

and they made sure that everybody behaved themselves.

So I'd have 20 guys who were kind of hanging out

and just making sure things went well and everybody behaved themselves

well. Back in those days,

we self policed and took away keys and did those things

we needed to do,

but that kind of entertainment bug,

it was always more of a business to me.

And as I went to college,

I really didn't think I'd end up in this business.

And my background was college was more business management and computers

took a lot of psychology classes,

thought about going down that road.

But then as I exited college,

I kind of fell back into working in the taste of

Chicago for a friend of a friend and just had a

great time.

So you decided that that was what you were going to

at least try out first,

the whole hospitality business.

Right? Well,

the tastes of Chicago actually worked in front of a friend

who was managing a Stouffer's restaurant.

Oh, got it.

So that's kind of how that worked for the 10 days

soiree setting it up,

having a good time.

And then a week later I was working for Stouffer's restaurants.

So there you go.

Now I've got to tell you,

I went to the very first taste of Chicago way back

when that was crazy share with our listeners,

what tastes of Chicago is so people who don't know will

understand, Okay.

So Chicago,

as it was created years ago was more smaller,

independent restaurants along with some bigger local restaurants.

And it was really a lively stage for food live music

and astounded grant park,

which is right on the Lake there and has this great

backdrop. And it was a 10 day just extravaganza the food

and everything else was just tremendous.

And he had some big restaurant tours and things were different.

Then the city's kind of changed it quite a bit and

it's morphed and it no longer is what it was.

And now you've got more smaller tastes of going around the

city every other weekend,

where the tastes of Chicago doesn't have the punch that it

used to have.

It used to be huge.

I don't know how many different music stages and it was

always in the middle of the summer.

So that was great,

Correct. It was really only taste of Chicago in town.

It's all the smaller venues that have forced it to change

and really challenged its ability to be successful.

So now you get into the restaurant industry,

but you're working for someone.

So talk us through a little bit of that and how

the evolution came to bluegrass.

I want to really focus on bluegrass,

but I just want us to get there.

So, I mean,

as I worked for,

Stauffer's worked there for a couple of years.

Number of different restaurants spend some time in Cleveland and I

always enjoyed it,

had a lot of fun learn how to cook.

Every restaurant I've worked in the kitchen,

worked with a lot of wonderful chefs and kind of left

stuffers, got into the bar business for a short period,

spent about a year in the bar business down in the

rest street area in rush street was the quintessential Chicago kind

of area nightlife that's back when division was division.

And they used to have the horses keep the crowds in

order. And it was really worked well and there was really

only one spot to beat.

And that was on the division street if you're going out

for the evening.

So as I learned the bar business,

I learned that that was something I didn't want to do

for the rest of my life.

Met up with a guy Don Roth and Don Roth really

took me under his wing and was almost like a fatherly

figure where he kind of taught me the business part of

the restaurant scene and relationship building and fine dining and how

to manage and run a business.

And I worked for the family for about 10 years and

started their single left.

They're married with two kids in the house,

know really kind of grew up.

And as I left him,

it was somewhat surreal.

But as I partied with him,

I said,

you taught me how to fly.

And it's time for me to fly the nest.

And we had a great relationship for years,

still very close with the family.

And that was just one of those things where that was

really where I grew up in life.

I spent 10 years there and then left,

there, went to work for lettuce there in Janu.

And then I further refined my corporate skills and really refined

my business skills as far as how to operate a restaurant.

Let us has an incredible reputation as well as incredible systems.

So it was really a great refresher as far as systems

management, because I was with an independent for about 10 years.

Then I left there,

opened up Crawdaddy Bayou where it was a Southern concept and

it was a five and a half acre site,

three and a half million dollar build-outs 450 seats.

It was just a large kind of Southern restaurant.

And we went from zero to $5 million in the first

year, we had a great team and it was really a

lot of fun.

And, and,

you know,

did that for about four years.

At that point,

I knew that I knew how to open up a restaurant

and that was kind of a hinge pin.

And once again,

step into the next part of what I wanted to do

left there did some consulting and then found that traveling the

country was fun for a few weeks.

But then again,

after about a year with kids,

I was like,

Hmm, maybe this isn't what I want to do.

I want to stop you real quick here and point something

out, gift biz listeners,

as you're listening to what Jim has to say.

And if you maybe find yourself,

you know,

you're still in a nine to five,

you're working for somebody else.

If you listen to Jim,

every single step along the way that he took,

he was learning something that then he was going to be

able to use later.

So I think there's a lot of feeling like,

Oh, you know,

I'm working for someone else.

I want to ditch my nine to five.

Like that's,

whatever one talks about.

Sure. Take a look at your situation where you are now

and what learning can you capture that you'll be able to

use to enhance your skills no more.

If there are things within your current business that you could

volunteer for where you'll pick up more information or more connections

use the place you're at right now,

even if you're looking at something for the future,

because there's really valuable learning to be had.

And that's what Jim was doing this whole time.

There's no question.

Any job I took,

I would always look at it as an individual I'm working

for and you don't work for a company.

You work for an individual and you work for a mentor

and you need to find someone who will help you craft

whatever you want to get out of it.

And that's really what I did all along my way,

knowing I wanted to have my own business.

Each step I took was with a different weakness of myself

to strengthen it and be able to walk out of that

job or that position,

having more knowledge.

Was that intentional?

Yes. And actually there was a,

quite a few jobs I took where I took less pay

to get the education.

So did you always have the dream of opening up something

for yourself?

I did.

Okay. So that was from the start that was there.

And then you're just building your skills,

building your knowledge and really setting yourself up then to be

successful right out of the gate.

Correct. My goal was to have my first restaurant,

by the time I was 40 and I started that when

I was 25,

I started giving myself 10,

15 years to figure this out,

tried going on left my own a few times was not

successful. Each time I learned something I didn't know.

And it humbled me at that point in time,

but kept learning how to do it.

Then it was just like,

okay, here's what we got.

Here's we gotta do it now.

I'm so glad you brought that up because I think so

many people think that those who are successful just landed at

their fear.

First try.

We could have taken the conversation here and just gone right

into bluegrass,

but you have just brought up the comment that you took

a couple of tries at it,

learn some things and then kind of created the magical formula

for yourself as merged into bluegrass.

So let's go back.

So after Crawdaddy value,

now, you know how to open a location.

And then you were traveling around to,

you got a chance to see how lots of different restaurants

do things.

Now you're going to start your own business.

How did you decide what the cuisine was going to be,

where your location was going to be?

Let's go there.

Now. I figured in life,

you have to take your strengths and pair them with your

weaknesses. And if I wanted to create my own concept,

And I looked at the opportunities where there's a lot of

restaurants, a lot of businesses in general,

going out of business because the world had just changed.

And I saw a lot of different sites that were opening

up a lot of business failing.

I figured this is a great opportunity.

Once failure is another person's opportunity.

So as the time would be great to get into it,

if I could figure this out for the last time and

really just kind of started honing in on what my strengths

were. I had a lot of recipes from there was John

Ross credited by you from lettuce and kind of brought them

together and had a chef David Teichmann,

who was an incredible creator.

And he partnered up with me at the beginning to create

the menu.

And ironically the menu we created six months before we opened

up, I'd say 60 to 70% of it is still extremely

viable on the menu today.

No kidding.

30 to 40%.

We're always changing lively,

keeping seasonal.

So we do have spousal.

We rotate,

heart of what we have here,

which is somewhat surreal as well.

Because as you create things,

once again,

just to change or be changed,

you have to keep changing and happy.

Keep current Dave and I opened up Crawdaddy and oratory well

together. And we didn't always agree,

which was kind of the neat thing.

So we would go back and forth and it was kind

of interesting.

So as I was creating bluegrass,

it was just one of those things where you take your

strengths, get them into one spot and try to get everything

going in the right direction,

because there's going to be enough things you don't know,

they'll have challenges with.

Sure. Okay.

So you had your recipes and I just have to jump

in and say,

it's crazy that you haven't had to change the menu very

much, except for the ones you rotate out.

But I look at my eating behavior.

Like I always come and have the same thing,

almost always because I love it so much.

Correct. Right.

And it is so different.

It's not like I can get it anywhere else.

I can only get it with you.

Correct. So I think that's part of the trick and the

magic to your menu.

And that goes back to understanding the psychology of menus,

which is a whole separate conversation.

But when people go out,

if you think of yourself,

you go to a restaurant there's usually one or two items,

which you'll try whatever restaurant you want.

If you have an urge to have something you're going to

go, let's go here.

Let's go there.

And each restaurant you go to,

you usually try one or two things on that menu.

Not many people really go through a menu and we'll try

a number of different items on a menu.

So as we created bluegrass,

we've got a lot of different things.

So we can attract a lot of different people.

And that goes back to one lesson I learned from a

guy, Bob chin,

Bob chin,

for those of you who don't know,

his restaurant is a seafood restaurant in wheeling.

And he was in the top three grossing restaurants years ago.

He's been around for about 30 plus years.

But if you look in his dining room,

he's got black,

yellow, white,

green, 30 year olds,

20 year olds,

two year olds and 102 year olds.

The diversity that he has in his restaurant has really created

his success.

I've never enjoyed his food and service,

but I've always admired the way he has a dining room

that just has a myriad of people.

We tried to create that in a smaller scale,

we only got 85 seats.

So give biz listeners,

have you ever heard of the psychology of a menu before?

I think it's always so interesting to get behind the scenes

information from businesses,

even though we all know restaurants who knew about this whole

psychology of a menu thing.

Anyway, we're going to get back to Jim's story right after

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So there's Another thing that you did different than the norm,

I would say.

And that is your location.

Usually you'd think with a restaurant you're going to want to

fit yourself into where the traffic patterns are,

where people are always passing.

And you're a little bit out of the way.

How did that come about?

Well, that was pretty much intentional.

Oh, of course.

It was Ideally once again,

through business,

I've learned that if you have a good product,

the Zillow thing build it and they will come.

There are so many mediocre restaurants and business out there.

If you have a good business,

you have a good product.

People will seek you out.

So as I was creating,

what I wanted to create,

part of the idea was value.

And in order to have a good value in our product,

we had to keep the prices down.

So I couldn't be paying top dollar for real estate.

So I was looking at a number of different sites that

were what I call B and C sites.

I didn't want to be on main street USA.

I wanted to be able to work for myself and make

money for myself where I wasn't just paying the landlord and

fighting myself because you know,

you're going to have bad days.

And then you have to set up for failure before you

set up for success.

So I found a nice see site that was really a

vanilla box.

It had nothing to offer.

It was in an industrial park and we just kind of

brought it to life.

You sure have no question about it?

I mean,

rarely is there a parking space open and rarely is there

a table open,

but people had to find you,

people had to learn that you were there.

So in the very beginning,

once you were established and open,

how did you attract people to you?

That goes back to the guy Don Rothway worked for for

years. And he was old school with Gordon Sinclair and Arnie

Morton and gene Sage,

where word of mouth was how restaurant succeeded.

The internet was not around.

People would make phone calls,

but they would talk to people.

And we still work our dining room in the old school

way where we know our guests,

we know their kids' names.

We know where they work,

how often they come in and what they want to see

for service.

And we take care of our guests.

So they walk out going,

wow, that was really nice.

Once again,

we're a service business,

more so than a dining room.

As far as food,

number one,

we've gotta be service first.

Our food is excellent and that is something we will always

strive for.

But to separate from others,

you really have to have something that stands out and in

this industry,

if you can be service driven and in any business,

it's really service that separates most of the commodity prices.

Yes. I agree.

And give biz listeners just listened to that because you might

be sitting here thinking,

well, how does this all apply to me with my product

service? It is all about service.

And so,

Jim, what you're saying is when the first people were coming

in, you just made sure that their experience was so exceptional

that they were going to spread the word.

Correct. And we still connect on a daily basis.

And I,

my staff,

different ways of connecting with the guests because that's really what

separates us from the others and other restaurants just don't have

the ability to do that.

So can you give us some tips?

Well, using guests names,

big people like to hear their name as we're on the

North shore.

We've got a lot of very,

well-schooled very particular guests.

And either you listen to them,

they'll tell you exactly what they want.

And as I teach my staff,

you have to really listen.

Listening is a skill and listen to what they want and

then giving them what they want.

And then there'll be happy.

The way that the food industry has changed and the way

people eat in the last 15 years,

when we first opened up,

it was big portions,

kind of that Maggio,

nanos, where everybody wants to take leftovers home for the next

three days today,

it's more value orientated and people were doing more half portions,

but they want fresh food.

And they don't mind paying a little more for fresh food.

So as our menu has really changed,

our portion sizes have changed.

And about three,

four years ago,

we did almost all of our seafood items.

You can get an a half portion.

And at the beginning I was very concerned because of course

we cut our check average,

but then again,

we've increased our profitability and I kept watching the numbers going

with our check.

Average is dropping.

This is going to be challenging,

but then again,

profitability was going up.

So we do more half portions and more smaller portions.

That's what people are looking for.

Absolutely. Now another thing that you do every time I come

into you guys is either you or Joni are always there

and give his listeners.

Joanie is Jim's wife.

So that's a lot of personal time into your business because

you're also look,

we're recording in the middle of the day and your business

will really,

we're going to get to that in a little bit is

also morning,

lunch and night.

How do you do that?

How are you always there either you or Joni?

What about a personal life?

You have kids.

Well, the kids are now 28,

29. So they're no longer hanging out no longer as a

much a part of our life today.

But when you started,

They were younger.

How did you balance all Of that?

Well, and I waited until the kids got to high school

because yeah,

that was very important.

And as Joni,

she worked,

she did kids' birthday parties at multiplex,

which is a local health club,

but she was doing 250 to 300 birthday parties a year.

And Joanie connected with the kids and always has where I

connect with the adults.

So it's funny at the door.

You'll all know the adults and soon all the kids,

it works for us,

but the both of us have a lot of energy.

So we start with that,

but I do leave.

I do take off and she does leave as well.

And we've got good people who are trailing it for us

and taking good care of what we do and making sure

they understand what our standards are.

Got it.

Okay. So there's a couple other things I want to talk

about in terms of the types of things that you do

that you wouldn't always think of with a restaurant.

And as we're talking about this,

everyone who's listening,

I want you to kind of get a feel for this

and think about your business and other types of layers.

In other words,

revenue producing,

layers that you could add on Jim,

I'm going to share with everybody that you do lots of

fun weekend events.

Let's talk about those.

Well, as we always try to keep our concept and business,

top of mind,

you always have to keep creating new,

different things.

And when we first opened up,

but they were very laborious.

We did those for years,

just kind of fighting through because that was the thing to

do. And then as we realized that they were not as

profitable, but we've come to the point where once again,

we're here for business and we're here.

You got to make money,

what you do,

but you have to create fun,

interesting, different things.

We kind of stumbled back to boils or stumbled into boils.

I've known about boils down South for years,

and it's probably one of the coolest,

communal dining experiences that I can ever recall having.

So we've brought those to the table and we do those

on Sundays.

And that really kind of is a wow event where it's

all I can drink.

All I can eat.

And you don't find events like that.

And that kind of digresses back to back when I was

a teenager,

having parties in the backyard.

And when we do these things,

we put the keg out front as we're right across from

the police station every now and then they come rolling by

and they say,

hello, which is nice.

Checking out what,

they're still trying to keep an eye on us,

but it's always good.

We've got a great clientele.

So we don't really have any problems with that.

No, one's really taken advantage of it,

but they're fun events.

And we bring in a brewer,

we bring in a wine maker.

So the people come in,

number one,

you've got the food.

And then you've got this brewer.

That's talking about the beer that he makes.

And if you have a wine maker,

that's talking about the wine she makes,

where he makes.

So you walk out going,

wow, that was something very unique,

very different.

Yeah. It's always been an experience.

I mean,

I was there during your chef demos and I was recently

there during one of the boils and I see that as

a great opportunity to take what would normally be downtime for

you for your restaurant Sundays usually when you'd be just closed

using that,

because you've already got the space,

your fixed costs are already there.

You're already paying the rent,

but then adding in another layer.

That's really interesting.

I also like the partnering part of that.

Now, do you coordinate all of that or do you have

someone else doing some of the behind the scenes things to

make these events come off the way they do?

Well, I pretty much nurture the relationships and it goes back

to the days of dine Roth.

And then life is about relationships and businesses about relationships.

And as my dad always taught me,

find something you love to do have fun,

and it'll just come to life and you'll have fun with

what you're doing and try to make a business out of

it. And as I still play hockey,

it's funny.

Now we go down to the United center and I get

to meet with a number of different brewers that sell beer

through breakthrough.

It's been kind of fun to meet the different brewers.

And then I invite them into my restaurant.

And then we do this event.

Yeah, you're kind of muddying the line between personal and business

there, but you love it all.

So it works,

But it all works together.

when breakthrough got into or word scanned into the beer business.

And we were one of the first restaurants to bring the

chutes into town,

did a big Mardi Gras party with the chutes,

had the owner,

Gary fish come in.

We try to keep these events that you walk in and

you get to meet people who were very serious about what

we do,

but it's all about marketing and creating a better opportunity for

tomorrow. So the events that we do,

we don't make a lot of money on them,

but it allows us to move forward and keep creating new

different experiences,

which is not that much different from all of our networking

breakfasts we do as well.

Oh my gosh.

You're so perfect because that's where I was going next.

So let's talk about that.

And that's kind of similar in nature.

I mean,

the interesting thing is I've always been a big networker and

then all of a sudden I have my own business.

It's very difficult for me to get out.

So we started doing breakfast with local chamber where,

when we first opened up and then we just kind of

spawned a number of different groups.

We had the novel group,

we've got a Kellogg alumni group,

we've got a Walgreens group.

We had a lawyers' group.

We just picked up another one.

So we're doing anywhere between six and 10 breakfasts a month.

And it's once again,

not about the people coming in.

It's about all the emails going out,

saying we're reading at bluegrass,

Minnie at bluegrass.

If everybody has a list of 500 or 200 to 300

people that they're blasting out to,

it just keeps us top of mind and keeps it as

an opportunity for us to be successful tomorrow.

Not only that,

but at your networking events,

because as you know,

but I'm just telling everybody who's listening.

Our chamber has their meetings.

They're the first Wednesday of every month.

And you draw people because what do you do you offer

made to order hamlets right there in the morning?

So I am quite sure there are a couple people who

would not drag themselves out of bed,

except for those omelets.

And that has nothing to do with your regular offerings,

Correct? Our breakfast once again,

different, it started out just with a continental breakfast.

Then as I was talking with Jenny,

who's the executive director actually of the breakfast left because there

was some other restaurants that were upset that we were taking

all of the chamber and how come the chamber is always

going to bluegrass.

And I assume a title lunch I can share.

So all of a sudden the chamber meeting went to a

couple other restaurants and then they very nicely decided they should

go back to bluegrass because we did things differently.

And we kept raising the bar and they actually the outlets

once they came back,

Yeah. I remember when we went somewhere else.

Yeah. Not good or bad.

I mean,

I'm not going to make a comment on that,

but I think the other thing here,

going back to what you were referencing before is the pictures.

People take pictures when they're at networking events and where's the

networking event bluegrass.

So you're taking a lot of different angles where visibility continues

to come back to you because then it's like,

okay, bluegrass,

what's bluegrass,

where's bluegrass.

And then they say,

Oh, well,

you're the networking event or a chamber event there.

But have you ever been there for dinner,

all circles back.

So from different angles all over,

you do another thing that's really,

really good.

And that is any single event we have,

like within our community.

Well, we'll do a holiday dinner,

right? We do taste of Highland park,

which is a local summer taste Fest.

You participate in all of that.

Always. We're a community based restaurant.

We've always done a lot with the schools.

I mean,

we connect with the first graders for Cinco de mile,

which is a local mushroom at school,

but about four blocks away,

they walk over here,

high school kids.

We connect with the hockey team.

Once again,

my kids played hockey.

We do the family dinners,

get the team together a couple of times a month.

They come in and have dinner.

So we connect on a lot of different basis with a

lot of the non-for-profits as well when they have fundraisers and

we try to help them out as well.

So we're always doing different things,

but if you're not,

community-based not really connecting at the community level.

You're not going to have your ability to be as successful

because we do get back a lot.

So a lot of your time,

but also a lot of,

I will say money,

I'll go back to that is more in participating and providing

product and all of that in community events versus advertising.

Would that be right to say Correct?

Yeah. Our advertising budget is pretty much nil.

We don't really market nor advertise,

but we do events that keep us top of mind.

And I think that's almost more important than just putting a

image ad out there,

which you never know how much you actually get back out

of it.

Right. But you're doing lots of things.

You're everywhere with networking and weekend events and all of that

together. So it's not just one thing.

It's just the whole combination that you've put together.

Correct. And then the other thing that really gives us the

internet presence would be the Yelps,

the open dabbles and the TripAdvisors of the world as we're

well, blogged people will walk out going well.

That was nice.

They say a lot of things that I wouldn't even say

things as nicely about what we do here,

but it's just how we further separate ourselves from the other

restaurants that makes the difference.

Do you ask for those reviews?

No, we've never had to solicit.

We just do what we do and do it well,

and we've grown the right way,

somewhat organically.

Well, and it helps that you and Joni are both so

personable too.

I mean,

you're, it's just a fun place to be.

We talk a lot specially now with brick and mortar and

the challenge about having a location restaurant is in a way

the same type of thing.

But if you don't show a unique and a fun and

a welcoming and friendly experience when people are there,

even if your food is good people aren't going to come

back, correct.

It's a combination for you.

I would imagine I can't be an expert in any way

in the restaurant industry,

but you've got to have good quality food,

but you also have to have that ambiance,

that friendliness,

where people really feel good about the whole experience when they

leave whatever you're doing And different businesses,

you have to separate yourself from the rest.

And there's a lot of what I call commodity businesses out

there. And restaurants are to a certain degree in that genre

of there's a thousand restaurants.

And then why would the guests want to come here as

well as why would employ you on a work here?

We can't pay the best dollar,

but we've got a great working environment.

People actually like working here,

how are we paying the top dollar?

The best in the area?

We pay our staff very,

very well,

but we have a great group of people that allows us

to create the fundus and the spontaneity.

And they do very well as well.

So it's really kind of a full circle.

It's not just the front door,

it's the back door.

Everybody wins.

Everyone feels good about it.

Like with vendor relationships,

you've got to make sure you've got people that are working

with you and helping you.

And it's been kind of fun because as a business owner,

I get to select who I do business with.

And if people don't want to play nicely and don't want

to be nice,

well, we don't have to deal with them.

And I try to surround myself with whether it's vendors,

whether it's guests,

whether it's staff,

people that want to buy into what we're trying to do

here and help support and grow what we do.

Absolutely. Have you ever had a situation where you've had to

part ways with a vendor or you've had a frustrating customer

that you've had to just say dinner's over tonight or whatever

you would say,

but have you had a challenge like that?

There's no question.

I mean,

that's part of the nature of the beast.

Number of times,

I've had to escort people out of here.

I probably in 15 years I can count on one hand,

but people get belligerent and get silly,

but it's got to be controlled.

Well, and that's part of,

once again,

we've got a lot of different types of personalities and wherever

we've got an open door,

we've been very fortunate.

It's only been a handful of people,

vendors. There's no question that I have standards and that vendors

have to buy into what we're doing.

And if they work with us or I'll find somebody else

because there's too many challenges and they understand what I'm looking

for. And just like,

once again,

I deal with breakthrough.

They've been a great supporter by providing these brewmasters and winemakers

to come in,

to help entertain my guests,

which once again,

they helped me.

I helped them.

I saw their product and they helped support us in different

ways. So it's a two-way street.

And as I move enough of their products,

they're pleased to work with me.

And as we help market them,

it's a two way street.

There's other people that don't like doing,

Then you guys just aren't a match.

Correct. So as you look at the future,

you've referenced already,

as we've been talking that you've really had your eye out

to see how things change.

An example was the dishes.

People are looking for really nice,

solid quality,

but smaller sizes,

right? You've taken advantage of social media as that's come into

the forefront to get visibility.

How do you look to what's going on now into the

future? How do you capture those things that you need to

change within your business?

That's a fully loaded question.

You only have to give me one answer,

Tim. I mean,

with technology,

everything's always changing with technology and food as well.

So I've always looked at this as a business,

more so than a restaurant.

And it's not about me.

It's about the guests,

the guests experienced either we're growing or dying,

but we're always sourcing new different things.

And I've never wanted to be a trendy restaurant,

but I've always wanted to be a successful business.

So we just brought on the impossible burger.

This was somebody just,

I don't know,

I'm not sure if you've heard about the impossible burger.

I haven't sounds like I need to visit it,

but it's a vegan product.

Well, there you go.

My daughter's already for it.

Then It's been created in Southern California and it's a sustainable

product that can be recreated through plants.

This is a plant-based product,

but it's,

I'm going to call it like a chemical assimilation of a

burger. And they've just been released in the last few months.

And I wasn't looking for this,

but it was brought to my attention ironically,

by a friend I play hockey with and there wasn't a

lack of room.

He was telling me about this.

He's a vegan.

So I started looking it up and it's a pretty cool

product. And there's a tremendous amount of money behind it to

bring this to fruition.

And as we've added to the menu in the last two

weeks, we're selling about 20 of these impossible burgers a week,

which is actually a lot for once again,

the product that it is.

So we're always looking for things that will make a difference

that can impact us in a positive way.

So I think what you're saying is you're really being attentive

and listening and seeing what can apply,

correct? Yeah.

Cause you could have very easily and you're just hanging out

with your hockey friend,

whatever, just it's part of a conversation.

But when he mentioned it or your antennas were up and

you identified that there was a possibility and then integrated it

in and now you're seeing that it's working,

There's a number of different things.

You, the restaurant show coming up in a couple of weeks,

which is another big idea,

kind of generating show.

We're always looking to add things to the business and keep

us viable and keep us lively and keep us current.

And since we're not looking to be once again,

the trendy spot,

we have to be able to figure out what else we

can do to keep us kind of in the mainstream and

keep us busy.

And another reason to come back again.

And that's always top of mind,

how do we get people to come back right?

As well as create an experience that is something different,

Absolutely. To all the other things that you do,

like the weekend activities,

events, all of that,

as well as we wind down here,

I'd like to invite you to dare to dream.

I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable

Heights that you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What is inside your box gym Inside my box,

if Thinking like a lobster or a crawfish or something that's

going to come out,

I've always tried to live my life and enjoy what I

have and not live beyond my means.

And it's always been fun and enjoyable that I've been able

to keep things going and growing my life.

And as I'll be a grandparent and have a few more

months, see the second child get married off health is a

big thing to me.

So having a healthy body and a healthy mind is probably

the most important thing moving forward in life.

I agree.

And congratulations.

I can't wait to hear more about what's happening in the

future. Next time I see her.

That's awesome,

Jim, thank you so much.

I really appreciate your coming on.

Now. I know more about bluegrass than I ever did before.

So that's super exciting.

I love that.

And some really solid business learnings for our audience,

which I also appreciate.

And I think the whole thing that got threaded through all

of this was service being a service to your customers and

your employees providing something both in product and also atmosphere and

experience that people love is really what's made you such a

success. No question.

It's just separating yourself from everybody else and be what you

want to be and do it better than anybody else.

And you do Jim,

and I'm so glad you're right in my area so that

I can be there all the time.

Thanks. So,

thanks again.

I really appreciate it so much that you came on and

shared the whole story with us.

My pleasure.

Thanks for having me on.

Appreciate it.

And I'll be back into the restaurant very soon.