103 – Building an Award Winning Caramel Brand with Calley Hastings of Fat Toad Farm

Calley-Hastings of Fat Toad Farm

Calley is the owner of Fat Toad Farm located in Brookfield, Vermont. Fat Toad Farm is a family-run business that produces a Traditional Goat’s Milk Caramel Sauce. Their award-winning sauces are based on the Mexican confection cajeta, and are meticulously hand-stirred to velvety perfection.

Calley has spent the last nine years mastering the art of goat’s milk caramel making, focusing on traditional cooking methods and using a small number of simple, all-natural ingredients.

The result of this process is a rich and creamy, not-too-sweet caramel that delivers an irresistibly complex flavor.

Fat Toad Farm’s mouthwatering goat’s milk caramel sauces are delicious swirled on top of ice cream, mixed into your morning coffee, paired with your favorite cheese, drizzled on fresh fruit or eaten straight out of the jar with a spoon!

The Fat Toad Farm Story

The idea and development of Fat Toad Farm. [4:12]

What is behind their name. [6:00] [27:12]

Understanding the landscape and lifestyle in Brookfield. [7:47]

A lesson in caramel making. [10:00]

Winning Awards! [20:48]

The FedEx Video [22:13]

Candle Flickering Moments

The pros and cons of presenting an entirely new product. [27:53]

Pressure to decrease cook time and add preservatives [28:50]

Business Building Insights

The first phase of a business. [11:00]

Analyzing their product mix why ultimately the dropped goat cheese. [13:25]

Labeling and branding. [16:16]

Reaching out to experts in photography and food safety. [17:02]

Trade show strategy and analysis. [23:33]

Relationships are key. [26:06]

Honoring and committing to an upscale pricing strategy to match their product quality. [29:48]

Success Trait

Uncompromising commitment to product quality and attention to detail. [33:31]

Productivity/Lifestyle Tool

Calley has a serious commitment to quality of life for herself and all their employees. Hear about their 20 minute vacations. [35:50]

Recommended Reading and Listening

Free-Audiobook-Button

Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days by Jake Knapp, John Zeratesky and Braden Kowitz

Contact Links

Website

Facebook

Instagram

Twitter

If you found value in this podcast, make sure to subscribe and leave a review in Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts. That helps us spread the word to more makers just like you. Thanks! Sue
Transcript
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Hi there.

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Thanks for joining me on gift biz on rap.

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This is episode one Oh three.

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We've had chemo.

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And so we've been like,

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Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,

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And now it's time to Light it up.

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And now here's your host,

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Sue Mona height.

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And now let's move on to the show.

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Hi, there it's Sue and welcome to the gift biz on

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wrapped podcast,

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whether you own a brick and mortar shop sell our mind,

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or are just getting started,

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you'll discover new insight to gain traction and to grow your

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business. And today I have joining us Kelly Hastings of fat

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toad farm.

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Kelly is the owner of fat toad farm,

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which is located in Brookfield.

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Vermont. That to a farm is a family run business that

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produces a traditional caramel sauce.

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They're award-winning sauces are based on the Mexicans infection and are

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meticulously and stirred velvety perfection.

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Telly has spent the last nine years mastering the art of

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goat's milk,

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caramel making,

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focusing on traditional cooking methods and using a small number of

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simple all natural ingredients.

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The result of this process is a rich and creamy,

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not too sweet Carmel that delivers an irresistibly complex.

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Welcome to the show.

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Kelly, thanks for having me as we get started our listeners.

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And I like to get to know you in a little

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bit of a different way,

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and that is by having you describe your ideal motivational candle.

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So if you were to portray a candle that speaks you,

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what color would it be and what would be the quote

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on your candle?

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So I just had to think about what I actually have

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for candles in my house and the candles.

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I are these beautiful bees wax candles that my neighbor has

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made. Actually they have bees and beehives all around where I

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grew up,

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which is where the farm is and where our business is

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out of.

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And they make just beautiful products.

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They have honey,

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they had beeswax candles,

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they make soaps.

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So those are the candles I have around my house.

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And the color is just that beautiful kind of deep yellow

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honey Brown color.

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And the quote is actually the quote I had in my

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yearbook in high school,

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which was nothing is impossible in this life,

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except for skiing through a revolving door.

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I liked that,

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that was just cracked me up when I was that age,

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because it was the sense of going out and doing things

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and trying whatever,

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but also kind of a sense of humor around it of,

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well, you can do anything,

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but it's really hard to ski through a revolving door.

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So that's always kind of been in the back of my

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mind That,

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and you know,

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that speaks to the idea of continuing to move forward and

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not just go in circles.

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Just get going,

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move forward.

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Yeah. Yep.

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All right.

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So fat toad farm,

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super interesting name.

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I want you to start and talk a little bit about

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the farm and then let's progress into the caramel sauces.

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So tell us about fat toad farm.

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Sure. So we started almost,

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I think,

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10 years ago now,

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and it was kind of a convergence of family members.

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It was my sister and my parents and I,

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and we just all kind of came to the same place

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at the same time with the same goals,

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which was,

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I was a year out of college.

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I had been studying agriculture and environmental studies at the university

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of Vermont.

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My sister had been living off and on in Mexico for

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many years and had a small ecotourism business there.

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And my parents were looking for a new profession,

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interested in homesteading and farming,

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and we all decided to do it together in the location

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where I grew up,

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which is in Brookfield,

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Vermont Around a dinner table or at a holiday celebration.

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And all of a sudden,

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you just decided you were going to do this.

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Oh, something like that.

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I think it was more my sister and I decided to

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move back to Brookfield.

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At that time,

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we were both really interested in homesteading and kind of living

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off the grid,

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sustainable principles.

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And my parents products of the sixties and seventies timeframe were

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very drawn to that as well.

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And I think we're pretty interested that this new generation was

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getting involved in this as well.

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And so we just decided to give it a shot.

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We didn't necessarily decide we were going to have a business.

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We just wanted to start growing our own food.

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So it really started super small,

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like literally one little seed as everything starts in the garden,

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planting and growing our own food,

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which is something,

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you know,

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most people do around here to a certain extent anyway,

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just homesteading because people have the land and like growing their

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own food.

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So we had grown up with gardens,

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but we had never done it with the kind of deliberate

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intention that we had at this point.

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We started off by actually delivering veggies to people's doorsteps.

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It was kind of like a little mini CSA,

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but it was a little bit before CSS had become so

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popular. I think we did that for about a summer.

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And that was actually when we came up with the name

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fat toad farm,

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because there were just toads everywhere around here.

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You know,

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they're a really good sign in terms of biological diversity and

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the health of the ecosystem.

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And that was so much of what we were about that

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we just felt like they were a great omen.

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So we had jolly toad farm,

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in fact,

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toad farm and silly toad farm.

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And we had,

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I remember sitting at the table and doing all these sketches

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of these toads and we finally landed on fat toad farm

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and our neighbor who's a cartoonist for the new Yorker actually

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offered to do the drawing for us.

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So now we have this great iconic toad free kind of

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fuzzy toad that he drew for us,

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but he actually got sadder over time.

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He was skinnier back when he started and he got Sadder

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as the business developed.

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Right. Exactly.

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The more caramel he ate,

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the fatter he got,

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There you go.

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Well, I want to back up for a second.

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I'm not sure all of our listeners understand what a CSA

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is. So can you review that real quick?

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Sure. A CSA is community supported agriculture.

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It's become very common where a customer pre purchases food from

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a farm and then receives that food throughout the season,

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usually on a weekly basis.

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So what we were doing is we had neighbors who are

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ordering food for the week and we would put together a

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box of vegetables and then we would drop it off at

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their house for them to consume for the week.

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So You were kind of like a personalized farmer's Market.

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Yeah, exactly.

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That's what you were doing.

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And then you also came up around this awesome name,

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fat toad farm.

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And then how did that progress to caramel?

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I see no connection between the two Then either.

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I will tell you it was never the life plan to

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become a caramel maker.

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I, you know,

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I was a really big chocolate person,

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so caramel was a stretch for me,

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but now I'm a convert really well together.

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You know,

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that's my favorite.

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We have a topic caramel,

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which is my favorite flavor,

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but yeah,

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so the way it kind of moved into the caramel is

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that we started with the vegetable growing and we also started

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getting animals.

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We started raising sheep and we had a Lama as a

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garden animal named Dalai Lama.

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We had meat,

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birds, we had laying hands.

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We just loved it.

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We loved growing our own food.

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We love being out and working on the land.

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And my stepdad had historically raised sheep promotes of his life.

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So he was really excited about getting animals and he was

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interested in the dairy part.

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He wanted goats to milk.

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Cows are great,

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obviously for milk,

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but they're much bigger animals.

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They require a lot more infrastructure.

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So we weren't ready to take that leap because we had

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to like build from scratch here.

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We are old farmhouse,

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but we didn't have like a bunch of barns in place.

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So, So you and your sister both came back to the

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area where your parents already were.

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Did you already have this land and you developed it or

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did you buy it because now you had this vision of

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the homesteading.

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So we only owned,

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or I should say my parents only own five acres of

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land around the farmhouse.

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So, and they still do what we actually were able to

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do was lease land or use many pieces of land from

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our neighbors.

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So they were very generous and very supportive of what we

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were doing.

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So everything that we were was basically our five acres plus

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another 20 acres of neighboring land.

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I live right on the farm then too.

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Or you go to the farm each day,

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I go to the farm each day to work.

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I live about three miles up the road.

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Yeah. It's a rough commute.

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You know,

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It's a tough life.

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My favorite parts I live right in this area.

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I love this area.

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I grew up here,

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but I never imagined that I'd be able to actually make

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a living here and be able to be in this community.

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Long-term but I have been able to,

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which for me is,

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it's hard to do in rural Vermont.

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There's not a lot of job opportunities.

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It's hard for young people to live here.

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So I feel very,

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very grateful that I've been able to do that.

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So Steve,

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my stepdad was interested in the goats and wanting to have

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some milking animals.

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So we went with goats instead of cows.

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And we just started with four goats compass,

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North star,

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where two of them,

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they were sweet,

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sweet little animals.

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And we were hand milking.

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We would share that,

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but he was the main milker morning and night,

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just like cows.

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Goats are basically the same in terms of their needs for

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being milked.

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They're just smaller animals and they give less milk.

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They give about a gallon a day is the average.

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So he loved that.

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And it was kind of out of that,

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you know,

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you end up with four goats and a gallon a day

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from each go.

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That's a lot of milk for,

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for people to consume.

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So we started making fresh goat cheese.

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We started drinking raw milk.

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Of course we started making yogurt.

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And my sister who had been in Mexico had learned about<inaudible>,

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which is the goat's milk,

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caramel sauce.

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When she was down there,

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it's a traditional confection that the roots are in Mexico.

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Basically the history is that when ranchers had excess milk from

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the goats,

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they were milking and they didn't have refrigeration one way to

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preserve it was to cook the fresh milk down with sugar

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and you just cook and cook and cook and you'd end

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up with a caramel and oftentimes much thicker than the kind

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that we make.

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But then you can put it in a box and it

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would store without refrigeration.

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And it could be in later in time.

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So the hate,

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the roots are in Mexico.

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There's also the dulcet LAJ,

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which is cows milk,

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very similar in terms of process and history.

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But that's more from Argentina,

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Uruguay and Brazil.

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And I had actually lived in Brazil when I was in

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high school for a year.

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And so I had been very used to eating dulcet LAJ

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so this was very close to that,

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except it was just with goat's milk.

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So she kind of came back with this idea and was

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like, we should try making this,

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like this be interesting.

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And we just tested it out in the kitchen and it

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was delicious.

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And we're like,

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Whoa, okay.

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Right off the bat.

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Oh yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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It was delicious.

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It really,

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I mean,

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yeah. We,

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I mean,

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we had really never had it because we didn't grow up

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with my traditional Mexican cooking or anything.

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And so it was very new to us,

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but we tasted it.

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We gave the,

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to our neighbors and friends and they were blown away and

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we were just like,

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wow, this is awesome.

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So we started making that as well,

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but really we were making quite a bit of cheese,

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quite a bit of caramel selling milk and getting a couple

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more goats at a time.

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And you know,

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you reach that point where you're like,

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huh, I guess like,

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this is very expensive for a hobby,

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right? Maybe we should think about turning this into a business.

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And that was a key moment in time where we said,

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we either need to really cut back on everything we were

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doing. Because at that point we were meat,

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birds laying hands,

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deep, big gardens,

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milking goats,

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pigs. We were just doing everything small scale,

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which is super labor intensive.

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And we just needed to decide a direction to go in.

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So we said,

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let's start a business.

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Why not?

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Sounds like a great idea.

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So we decided to focus on the goat dairy and the

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goat milk products that came from that.

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So we actually invested in a cheese room,

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a milk house,

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a goat barn.

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We had to build everything from scratch.

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So we did that right next to the homestead,

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the house where I grew up and we started buying more

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goats. So I think every year we doubled that least,

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and we were making cheese maybe three to four times a

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week and caramel once or twice a week.

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And really cheese was our bread and butter in the beginning.

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And we would make it fresh and we would make it

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in one day.

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And then the next day we would drive to all the

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local stores we had about 40 stores that we would deliver

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to, and we'd deliver them their freshest cheese.

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You can get they'd sell out.

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And then,

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you know,

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we'd replenish their stock that next week or in two weeks.

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And we sold the caramel as well,

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but really the cheese was what we were focused on.

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We would do farmer's markets and lots of events.

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And then a couple,

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I would say we did that for maybe three or four

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years, both the cheese and the caramel.

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And then we just realized that with the cheese we were

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going to need to really up our game and invest in

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like a cheese cave and kind of go to the next

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level of doing more types of cheeses and not just this

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fresh cheese cause that was limiting.

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Like we couldn't drive to more than these 40 stores and

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we couldn't easily ship it.

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And there was just tons of competition.

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I mean,

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many other places were doing it amazingly.

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So there wasn't a huge need for it in the market.

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And frankly,

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I didn't really like me,

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Just a side note there,

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You know,

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they said at the beginning,

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she's making is 90% cleaning and that was true.

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So right there I'm with you,

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It was five o'clock in the morning.

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We'd start,

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we'd be done at seven or eight at night.

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It was tons of planning,

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long, long days along with milking,

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all the animals and everything else.

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And so it was wonderful.

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But I think at that time we also just realized,

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you know,

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there's a lot of potential with the caramel business because no

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one was doing it to any scale in the U S

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when we started.

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And we just thought,

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wouldn't it be interesting if we actually focused on that business

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and let go of the cheese and redirected the business growth.

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So we didn't,

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so we just dropped the cheese.

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And So were you all in favor of making that move?

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Yes, generally It took,

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you know,

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obviously some conversations,

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I think it's hard to drop anything once you put so

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much time and energy and money into building it.

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Sure. And you built all the facilities around to,

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to support it.

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Correct. But the good news was while we had the cheese

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facility that could be used for caramel production.

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And in fact it was best case scenario because when you

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build for cheese,

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you have to build to the highest regulations.

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And so that was built and ready to go for cheese

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or caramel.

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So we were able to just redirect all our energies into

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caramel and still use that same space too.

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Did you shut down one entirely or did you kind of

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do some type of an overlap caramel ramping up and then

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the goat cheese going down?

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No, we basically,

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at the end of that year stopped the cheese line and

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then started putting all of that milk into the caramel and

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growing that,

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which was interesting because one of the benefits we had from

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cheese and caramel was cheese,

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a quick product.

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We could make it quickly sell it quickly and get cashflow

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quickly from it.

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Whereas the caramel tended to be,

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we made it,

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it had a longer shelf life,

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so we didn't have to sell it right away and people

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don't buy caramel every week,

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whereas they could buy cheese every week.

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And so that was one of the issues or like the

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unexpected issues that came with dropping the cheese is we didn't

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have that really quick turnaround on production and cashflow as much.

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That's something we've had to adjust to in terms of our

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product type.

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Okay. So going back to talking about the caramel,

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you knew how to make it obviously,

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cause you already were,

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you had pretty much perfected a recipe you liked,

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even though you were doing it on the side for a

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long time.

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So you're set with that.

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How do you go about how are you going to package

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it? How are you going to do you're labeling it,

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turning it into a saleable product that's ready for shelves or

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trade shows.

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As you know,

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I've seen you at a show,

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how did that happen?

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Well, I think we realized that we had been doing things

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a certain way with a caramel based on farmer's market sales.

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So our look was kind of based on a farmer's market.

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Look, our general image branding and everything was still all I

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can say is kind of small scale of Vermont rustic.

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And my sister actually came a different sister,

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moved back from San Francisco and she joined our team and

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she actually really helped rebrand us and get us to the

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next level of,

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I guess I would say professionalism and gearing us up for

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a market outside of Vermont,

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a much kind of cleaner,

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more finished look while still maintaining the authenticity of the farm

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and that story,

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but making it more approachable for the New York city consumer

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or a Boston consumer.

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So she helped a lot with that in terms of branding.

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We also got trained by a photographer from New York city

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on food photography and product photography.

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So I had always been passionate about photography and had experience

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doing that in the past.

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And then we decided to invest in doing that in-house and

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developing a photo studio.

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So as of several years ago,

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we now do all that in house basically.

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Well, I'm looking at your brochure right now and I would

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have anticipated that you had a professional come in,

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so you guys are doing a great job.

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Yeah. I mean,

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we've had a lot of like,

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we just decided it's very important for us to have the

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creative piece to it.

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Like that's something that we love doing.

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And so that's something we've invested in,

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but yeah,

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we reached out to the right people.

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We have food scientists that we work with.

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You know,

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we work with Cornell university to help with packaging,

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food, safety,

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branding, labels,

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et cetera.

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But our has changed very much over the years for sure.

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And I think that's one of the biggest challenges as a

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small business growing when you have to change every year and

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your labels have to change your packaging changes.

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Sometimes it's hard to keep up.

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What was the trigger that made you decide you needed to

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change? I understand the point of being able to sell to

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people outside of your local area or the New York market,

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et cetera.

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But you're saying that you're changing every year,

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Changing every year.

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It's often small things.

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Like we have a label that we have,

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we get a food award and we want to add it

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to the label or gotcha.

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Yeah. So little things or ingredients change,

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you know,

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our recipe has changed a little bit over the years and

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so we have to tweak that on the label and stuff

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like that.

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I see.

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Yeah. Or adding new flavors,

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new color schemes.

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Okay. So gift biz listeners.

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I want to just bring up a couple of things that

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Kelly has been talking about.

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First off,

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you keep hearing this progression of change within the business.

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You know,

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one thing led to another and they finally analyzed,

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looked at some costs,

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looked at I'd probably all of the labor you were putting

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in and ended up doing the caramel sauce.

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And then they also reached out where there were areas that

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they may not know as well,

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such as photography.

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And then now even going to specialists for product development,

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label development,

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that type of thing.

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As a business owner,

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you don't have to know everything and going out and getting

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experts in certain areas makes total sense.

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And I would also say Cali because your logo and the

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field is still a little bit more rustic,

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just like you said,

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to keep the story intact.

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It's also the beauty of your product,

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right? Because there's such a story in such a field behind

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it, but professional photography.

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And I really point this out for a lot of you

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who are listening is so important because it's one of the

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first impressions that people get about your business.

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If you were to go on the website,

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we're going to talk about this a little bit later,

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Kelly, I'm sure there's photos there,

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but you'll see the level and the quality that they're producing.

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And somehow there's that correlation with,

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especially if it's a food product.

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Well, that then represents also how they're handling the product,

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making the product and developing the product.

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If you have less than quality photography,

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people might also relate that to well,

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you know,

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if it's a little sloppy there,

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how are they doing on the manufacturing end of their product?

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So photography again,

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long-winded here,

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but really important for first impressions.

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Specially. Now people go and see you for the first time

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online wanted to make that aside.

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Cali continue.

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Let's continue on.

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So, all right,

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so you have the product you you're talking about how the

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labels are changing because of ingredients and awards.

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Yay. And actually,

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let's talk about that a little bit.

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I'm giving you bragging rights.

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Tell us about an award that you've won,

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but bring it back to,

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how did you apply yourself?

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Did someone see it?

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How does that happen?

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We have consistently submitted product for awards over the years in

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particular, the national association for specialty food.

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They have a SoFi award program that goes with the fancy

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food show in New York city.

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So that when we have consistently submitted two in one or

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been in the running for winning several years in a row,

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our biggest award was with them actually.

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And that was two years ago,

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we won gold or whatever it was for the best product

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line. And that was awesome because it was very different than

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just winning for one flavor that we had.

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It was,

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they looked at our entire product line because we have spots

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of flavors,

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lots of sizes.

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We have gift options as well.

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And they looked at that among everyone else.

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And we went for the product line.

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So I think for us,

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that was kind of the height of winning with the specialty

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food. That was really great.

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I think also the good food award is another place that

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we've submitted to in one,

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two years in a row and the good food award,

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they are meticulous,

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they are detail oriented,

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they care so much about process,

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ingredient sourcing.

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They ask a million questions about what you're doing and a

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great way,

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like they are committed to,

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they're not just like,

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Oh, it's organic.

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It's great.

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You win.

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It's like,

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no, what does that mean?

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How are the animals being treated where your vanilla beans from,

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they want to know everything.

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And so winning that award for us is also just like

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one of the highest awards that we can get in terms

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of recognition.

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So that's been really awesome.

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And then several years ago we won a small business grant

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from FedEx and that was a national contest and we submitted

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our story,

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send them our products and we won that.

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And they actually though they give us $20,000

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for that,

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which is amazing.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah. And like an award brand page Thing,

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it's been really wonderful one after Another.

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So obviously it's great for credibility.

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What else has that done for your business when you're winning

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a war?

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Oh, FedEx is a great example.

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It was amazing to get grant money from them,

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but really one of the best things that came out of

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that is that they came and did a video of our

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business and they were here for a couple of days shooting

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and now that's a video that's out there and people see

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and we get comments on it all the time.

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And they just did a beautiful job of telling our story

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in a way that we hadn't up until that point.

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So that's been incredibly effective.

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Sure. To give me that link,

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I'll put it in the show notes so people can go

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and look at that video.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I'd love to sure.

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But yeah,

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I mean,

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all those things have been great for credibility.

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You know,

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if you're in the specialty food world,

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people know those awards,

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they look to them for new products and credibility.

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And so it puts you on the map,

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which has been great for us.

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Let's talk a little bit about trade shows now,

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how do you decide where you're going to go?

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And let's talk through a little bit about your booth,

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how you work your shows and maybe some tips for success

Speaker:

as we move on.

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Good question.

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Always something we're talking about as we're evolving as a business

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and trying to allocate our resources and time wisely,

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they're expensive.

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These shows are very extensive.

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And historically what we've done is we've focused on food shows,

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particularly the fancy food show,

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as well as the good food show,

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good food awards,

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mercantile. That's been great.

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It's absolutely foodies it's stores.

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It's the retailers,

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it's online food people,

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et cetera.

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We've often done a year,

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then skipped a year,

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then done a year and skipped a year.

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Just so we're there when we have something new to present

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and where it's really gonna benefit us.

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This is the first year that we did the New York

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now gift show.

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That was a little bit of a,

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I guess we were like putting our toe in the water

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for the gift market because we know historically our product has

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done really well and gift and holiday in the fourth quarter.

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And that's been amazing.

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It just happened naturally,

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but we've never made a concerted effort to really approach that

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market. And so this was our concerted effort to do that.

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And it was awesome.

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It was so well received and I felt like it was

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a really good match for the company.

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It was great because it was all new companies.

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It was people we just literally never heard of or talked

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to before.

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So it just helped us enter a market that we haven't

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even touched yet.

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We'll hopefully continue to do that and go to the gift

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shows as well.

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And we just started those relationships a month ago.

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So our goal is really to maintain those relationships and cultivate

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them because the whole business is about relationships.

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Sure. And this is a really interesting point too,

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because I was in a way surprised to see you there

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because there aren't as many consumables at that show,

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but that's the value of it too.

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You know,

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you're not in with all these other people where people are

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going and tasting after tasting,

Speaker:

after tasting,

Speaker:

as you do in the fancy food show,

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right? So you are seeing a lot of gift shops who

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many times carry perishable line,

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you know,

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edible type products.

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So I'm so thrilled to hear that it was a success

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for you and you saw a lot of people.

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And I just want to bring out to our listeners that

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might be something for you to consider if you do craft

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shows or some of these larger shows stretch out and maybe

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try something that is not a direct link with your product,

Speaker:

because you might experience something like Kelly seen here where she's

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entering into and getting visibility to an entirely different group of

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people. I also like that.

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You're talking about the fact that you're not really worried about

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what you sold there.

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You're saying,

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you know,

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you're just now starting to work with these people and developing

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relationships. And I think that's really important in terms of judging

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the success of a show.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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That's so key to our general approach is that relationships throughout

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your whole business,

Speaker:

they take a lot of time and you often don't see

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an actual conversion to a sale right away.

Speaker:

Like there's so many soft versus hard sells.

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The soft is really the relationship building,

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getting to know your market and really understand like,

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okay, what do people want?

Speaker:

And the gift world and are we offering it?

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And I think it's interesting too,

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to just think if consumers usually tell you things that you

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don't even think of.

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Like, we were never like,

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we want to make a gift product,

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but we just kept hearing again and again,

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like, Oh,

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why did you buy our product?

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Or how did you get,

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Oh, I got it for a gift for my brother and

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my sister.

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Oh, I got a gift for Christmas.

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I got it.

Speaker:

My socking,

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you hear it enough from your consumers.

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They're telling you,

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like, here's where you're going to be successful.

Speaker:

You are a great gift item.

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And so it's like,

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okay, like that,

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wasn't our original plan,

Speaker:

but we're being successful in that way.

Speaker:

So let's leverage that.

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And like,

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let's go to that market and see if we can do

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more of that Excellent point,

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making sure you're listening to the feedback of your product all

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the way along.

Speaker:

And your packaging really relates to it too.

Speaker:

Your packaging is beautiful,

Speaker:

simple. It's colorful,

Speaker:

but you still have your tone.

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Do you have your cute Towed along with you?

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For sure.

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Yes. He's been good to us.

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He at least people curious.

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So our farm was originally called Apple Hill farm back in

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the day.

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Like historically it was an Apple farm before my parents moved

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here and I grew up here.

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So we originally were going to choose that as a name.

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And then we looked it up and someone already had it.

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And I'm so happy because,

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well, that's a beautiful name.

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It sounds like many other farms.

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And I don't think we would have stood out in the

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same way and the fat toad farm.

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Well, it confuses people.

Speaker:

It makes them curious.

Speaker:

They want to know more.

Speaker:

They want to know the story and they usually remember it.

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And that's one of the most important things is just to

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stand out and be remembered.

Speaker:

You are exactly right.

Speaker:

I don't even have to say anything else about that.

Speaker:

You landed it totally agree with you.

Speaker:

Give us an example of something that might've been a challenge

Speaker:

along the way.

Speaker:

We've been making a product that no one else was making

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in the U S to any scale.

Speaker:

And so we really had in terms of equipment and recipe,

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and just like the standard things you would run into,

Speaker:

as you scale up a product,

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it was very hard for us to have mentors or coaches

Speaker:

that we could rely on to help us.

Speaker:

It's one of those pros and cons,

Speaker:

because in some ways it's like,

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great, no one else is doing it.

Speaker:

So there's innovation and we're trying to things and it pushes

Speaker:

you to places.

Speaker:

You probably wouldn't go otherwise.

Speaker:

And at the same time when you're struggling with the same

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recipe issue or the same stove issue again,

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and again,

Speaker:

it can be very hard to have breakthroughs because you have

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to learn the hard way often.

Speaker:

And it takes longer too.

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It takes longer and it's expensive.

Speaker:

It's expensive.

Speaker:

So we've had to do a lot of like our stoves

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are actually a combination of things that we've had to come

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up from scratch to make it fit our stoves.

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Our recipe is a similar situation.

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So we've had to do a lot of customization for our

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product, I guess,

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as we've grown it.

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And we've found like so much pressure,

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I guess,

Speaker:

is one of the big challenges and the food industry on

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preservatives, stabilizers,

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artificial colorings.

Speaker:

I think I have gained a true appreciation for why people

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start putting those things in their products.

Speaker:

For example,

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it takes us five hours to cook our caramel.

Speaker:

That's very expensive.

Speaker:

It's great because it's an artisanal process and it's beautiful from

Speaker:

a business numbers perspective.

Speaker:

It has its challenges because of the expense of it.

Speaker:

And so that's like a standard issue that caramel makers would

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face. And so you can shortcut it and decrease the cook

Speaker:

time, but then you don't get the beautiful Browning and labor

Speaker:

development. And so what do you do?

Speaker:

Like you just add caramel coloring at the end and then

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hold the no one knows the difference.

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And so I began to understand,

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Oh, that's why people start taking shortcuts.

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And then those are the ways that you add stuff to

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cover it up.

Speaker:

And it's been very difficult,

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but also like the most important thing for us to stick

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to our process and stick to our ingredient profile so that

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we never added any of that stuff.

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Because then why are we doing this?

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Because the point for us is to offer something different and

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offer something relatively healthy speaking,

Speaker:

in terms of a caramel sauce,

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it's 80%,

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goat's milk.

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You know,

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we never even had to think about consciously sourcing it.

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Cause it's just,

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we never thought of not doing that.

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We don't add vanilla extract.

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We add whole vanilla beans.

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We don't add cinnamon flavor.

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We cook it with cinnamon sticks,

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the whole process.

Speaker:

So those have been challenges in the food industry,

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the pressure of being different than who you are,

Speaker:

I guess.

Speaker:

So how does that then relate to the price that you

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have to charge for your product versus your competition?

Speaker:

Yeah, I think that's the key challenge is you have to

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account for those costs in your product.

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And you know,

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I think there's been points in time where we've felt like,

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Oh God,

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

we get feedback that our product is too expensive.

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And we understand that.

Speaker:

And I think that has made us feel like,

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okay, well,

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how could we do this differently to make it less expensive?

Speaker:

Sometimes in our minds,

Speaker:

we've been pressured to try to be everything to everybody and

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then we've had chemo.

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So we've been like,

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no, we're not everything to everybody.

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That's not the kind of product we're making.

Speaker:

We're not a Smucker's jar on the shelf.

Speaker:

We want to be different.

Speaker:

We want to hold true to our ingredients and our values

Speaker:

around the production of food.

Speaker:

And that may mean a higher price point.

Speaker:

And we have to be able to stand by that and

Speaker:

not compromise on those other things to become what everyone wants.

Speaker:

And just to understand too,

Speaker:

that you're always going to be pressured on your price by

Speaker:

literally everyone along the road.

Speaker:

And you have to really hold firm and have a strategy

Speaker:

around your pricing.

Speaker:

It's not that we're never flexible on our pricing,

Speaker:

but if we are it's with a very specific intention and

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a very specific plan,

Speaker:

Right. And your intention is not to match a competitor and

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then be yet another brand.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

you stand out because you're more the gourmet brand in that

Speaker:

sector, right?

Speaker:

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker:

And it sounds like that is your conscious choice to stay

Speaker:

that way.

Speaker:

So when you talk about,

Speaker:

you've got to have a strategy,

Speaker:

your strategy is to be the higher priced,

Speaker:

higher quality,

Speaker:

all natural ingredients,

Speaker:

traditional production method product.

Speaker:

Absolutely. Yes,

Speaker:

absolutely. I can tell that you've said this before,

Speaker:

because you speak it with such passion,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

as you're describing how you make it in the value and

Speaker:

how committed you are not to start adding coloring or anything

Speaker:

else in shorten the production process.

Speaker:

So that was spectacular.

Speaker:

Well, I think the contrary point too,

Speaker:

is we're also not going to be inefficient just to be

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inefficient. For example,

Speaker:

we used to do a tag on our jars.

Speaker:

It was like a little tag that explained our story.

Speaker:

And we had a string that went around the jar.

Speaker:

Those took for forever to make,

Speaker:

to hole punch,

Speaker:

to cut the string,

Speaker:

to tie around.

Speaker:

And in my opinion,

Speaker:

as a consumer,

Speaker:

I don't want to pay a producer to do tags and

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hand hole punch things.

Speaker:

And I don't want to pay for that.

Speaker:

And your pricing for me,

Speaker:

that's not a good business decision,

Speaker:

but if what you're sticking to is your traditional way of

Speaker:

cooking, then that's something I want to pay for.

Speaker:

But if you're being inefficient just to be inefficient or because

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you haven't figured a way to innovate,

Speaker:

or if you haven't found the key places to have automation

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or equipment,

Speaker:

then I don't think that's good either.

Speaker:

If that makes sense,

Speaker:

Right. You pick the best return you get for your whole

Speaker:

production cycle.

Speaker:

Like you're talking about with the tags.

Speaker:

Yeah. Let's turn now into our reflection section Kelly,

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and talk a little bit about you and how you've been

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able to continue making the decisions that you have leading to

Speaker:

all of these awards that you guys have.

Speaker:

And I realized that when we're speaking,

Speaker:

you're speaking with about,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

your whole family,

Speaker:

the whole group,

Speaker:

but you in particular here,

Speaker:

what is a natural trait that you have,

Speaker:

and maybe you've had to call on it just because you

Speaker:

are in a family environment and that presents some challenges as

Speaker:

well. I'm sure.

Speaker:

But what is a trait that you would bring up and

Speaker:

share with people that has helped you to be successful with

Speaker:

your product?

Speaker:

I would say age uncompromising commitment to quality.

Speaker:

And with that attention to detail,

Speaker:

I, you know,

Speaker:

I was thinking when you mentioned the photography,

Speaker:

if you have a sloppy photograph,

Speaker:

it's a reflection of how you're going to do everything else

Speaker:

in business potentially,

Speaker:

or it can be perceived that way.

Speaker:

And I think it's so true,

Speaker:

whether it's how we label a jar or whether it's how

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organized our calendar is or how we present ourselves at a

Speaker:

food show or,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

a new flavor that we put out.

Speaker:

We don't ever want it to be.

Speaker:

Ho-hum like,

Speaker:

that was kind of good or kind of,

Speaker:

okay. We literally want it to be of the highest quality

Speaker:

throughout everything we do.

Speaker:

Absolutely. Especially if you're demanding a price that you are exactly

Speaker:

To stand behind that.

Speaker:

Absolutely. And give biz listeners,

Speaker:

we talked about brand a lot in past shows and this

Speaker:

is all part of your branding.

Speaker:

It's not just the visual what's on the label.

Speaker:

It's how you conduct yourself,

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how you work with customers,

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everything that Kelly's just talked about in terms of any interaction,

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any touch point,

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how your displays look at shows,

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even if you're out at farmer's market,

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all of that represents a feeling and a belief that people

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are going to form about you and your business.

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So you want to make sure that you're present and it

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might be casual.

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You know,

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I mean,

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here Kelly's product is upscale.

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It's more expensive quality and production,

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everything she's already been talking about.

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So all of her labeling and interaction should go along with

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that, maybe your opposite,

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that maybe you're super casual,

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relaxed. Down-home if you have the product,

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when they want it,

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you have it,

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you know,

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that may be your style and you'll have people who will

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love you and follow you for that as well.

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And then everything follows along in that manner,

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not sloppy,

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but more casual.

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So I heard Kelly talking about,

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we needed to define what we are and then continue living

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by that.

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So I wanted to just underline that and bring in the

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whole branding conversation here real quick,

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too. Okay.

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And then thinking about your day and how you work,

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because you have such a commute,

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you know,

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what tools do you use for more the business side of

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it, not production,

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but to either stay productive and moving forward,

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or to create some type of balance.

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I'm a huge proponent of quality of life in balance.

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And I say that having us have run a farm for

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nine years.

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And so what,

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just as another piece of information,

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what we actually did is we ran the farm end of

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things, with the goats and milking them for,

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I think it was nine years total up until basically not

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this past fall,

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but the fall before.

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And then we actually sold our goats to Vermont Creamery,

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which is another Vermont business that makes just incredible cheese and

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butter. And so we sold them,

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our goats,

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just down the road there at their farm down there.

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And now we buy milk back from them and continue to

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make the caramel here.

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But that was a reflection also of a choice that was

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related to quality of life and balance.

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That's very hard to do when you're running your own business.

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It's also very hard to do when you have a farm

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in addition to that.

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So I've always been a big proponent since day one on

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our team of always saying,

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how are we meeting our quality of life?

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When is somebody getting a vacation day?

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We used to joke in the beginning when it was a

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farm, we would have a 20 minute break in the middle

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of a day in the seven-day workweek,

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where we would go for a swim at the local pond.

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And we would be like,

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Oh, it's our 20 minute vacation.

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This was amazing.

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But it really was We had all week.

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So every year I'm always saying,

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okay, what's our next thing that we're adding.

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Now. We actually have eight to five schedules Monday through Friday,

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which is a miracle for everyone here and making sure we're

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getting that much closer to health insurance and making sure everyone's

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paid fairly and sick days and all that.

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So as a business,

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well, we can't be there on day one with every single

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thing we want to be able to offer ourselves and our

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employees. We're always working towards those goals every step of the

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way, as much as we can.

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So I think for me,

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that's a big,

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just kind of bigger picture.

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I'm always trying to make sure quality of life is attended

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to, and then just like practical tools,

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running Exercise,

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that's important,

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getting out and moving.

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Although on the farm,

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you probably have a lot of that still anyway,

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even if you don't have the goats anymore.

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Yeah, There definitely was.

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But I think even to have the time to run now

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for me is like a miracle I've had that for years.

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And so for me,

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just mental health running is totally essential for me and has

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been for several years.

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And then something as simple as a physical calendar is probably

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my number one organizational tool.

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It's easy to get caught up.

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I think in all the internet systems and the phone calendars

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and all that.

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And I'm a very visual person.

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I like to have things in front of me keeping my

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to-do list fresh and clean every day,

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having a calendar where everything is that I can go to

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all the time,

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basic tools like that for me are really essential to staying

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organized. And on top of things,

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You'd be surprised how many people say that physical calendar.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You don't have to go after the newest thing just because

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everyone's talking about it.

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And I thinking think a lot of people are finally recognizing,

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you know,

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that technology is great,

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but it's great if it's working for you.

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And if the apps are all these different things that they

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have fit in with the way you intuitively work.

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So yeah,

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it's actually pretty surprising if I were to weight.

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It I'd say more people are doing in our industry now,

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people who are makers and creators a way more the physical

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calendar. Yeah.

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It's like such a minor detail,

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but I would literally see it 40% of whether I say

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organized or I don't.

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I get it.

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So let's talk about a book or possibly a podcast apart

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from this one,

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of course.

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But is there something that you listened to regularly that you

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would share with our listeners?

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Sure. So one book I read recently,

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it's called sprint.

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It's a book about businesses and ways of managing innovation in

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a productive way.

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So like how you get ideas and how you test them

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quickly to see whether they're going to work out or not

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without dedicating years of time and energy into them.

Speaker:

And there was a lot of just like really great examples

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of businesses doing that and just very interesting stories.

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So that's what I would recommend or at least that I,

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you know,

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I found inspirational and just led to new thinking.

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The podcast I have found most interesting recently around business has

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been how I built this.

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They interviewed different business owners,

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like Patagonia was one crate and barrel was another,

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the woman who invented Spanx.

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And they're just fascinating.

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I love hearing how people approach their businesses and what they

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value and things that people say that are like,

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so anti what you've heard your whole life.

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And you're like,

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Oh, you didn't want business growth.

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Okay. That's the thing you don't hear in business.

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So that for me has been very inspirational as well.

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Give biz listeners just as you're listening to the podcast today,

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you can also listen to audio books with ease.

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I've teamed up with audible for you to be able to

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get an audio book for free on me.

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If you haven't done so already,

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sprint may be one of those books available for audio.

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I'm just not quite sure,

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but you can check it out or select a book of

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your choice.

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All you need to do is go to gift biz,

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book.com and make your selection.

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Okay. Kelly,

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it's time for me to invite you to dare to dream.

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I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

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It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

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So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable

Speaker:

Heights that you would wish to obtain.

Speaker:

Please accept this gift in our presence and open it up.

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What is inside your box?

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So in some of my box,

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I imagine just opening it.

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And the first color is green.

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That kind of comes out of it and sunlight and people

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and animals.

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It's basically a vision for an active working landscape around me

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of pastures and forest and dirt roads and families and kids.

Speaker:

And it's a physical manifestation for me of why I got

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into this business in the first place,

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which is trying to have a business with my,

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that was based on the land.

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And that could create a quality of life and support ourselves,

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but also other people in a positive way.

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It's so core to my roots,

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having grown up in Vermont,

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in a rural economy with agriculture in all of our history

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here, and my grandfather spent his years documenting the agricultural life

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that was kind of going distinct.

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And it's a struggle in Vermont to see farms dying basically,

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and not being able to survive.

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And I want that future,

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not just Vermont,

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but in other places as well for that to be a

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viable future for people.

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And I want to be a part of supporting that and

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making that happen Really well said too,

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if there was one single place where we could direct people

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to come and see what fat toad farm is all about

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online, where would that be?

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Fat toad,

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farm.com. Just our website is great.

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And I would say for more of a inner look at

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the life and the business and more of kind of the

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day-to-day moments are Instagram,

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as well As listeners on the show notes page,

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we will have links to all social media accounts.

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Also the link that you'll get me,

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right, Kelly for the video.

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So all of that will be over on the show notes

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page, which is at gift biz,

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unwrapped.com. Kelly,

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thank you so much for joining me and sharing so much

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about the development.

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This is kind of a life that a lot of our

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listeners, I don't think are as well acquainted with in terms

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of the farming and how it evolves and all of the

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production that you go through.

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It was really exciting for me personally,

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to hear how you are staying true to the product,

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the content,

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the quality of your product,

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even though you're higher priced and positioning in that form of

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the market.

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I think it's a good learning for everybody.

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And just to stay true to what you initially were doing

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and not succumb to some of these challenges or stresses that

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people want to put on you,

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you guys stayed true to what you truly believed in.

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I look forward to this pasture and this whole vision that

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you've given us in your dream to continue to come true

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because it's already here true for you right now.

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And may your candle always burn bright.

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Thank you.

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Where are you in your business building journey,

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whether you're just starting out or already running a business and

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you want to know your setup for success.

Speaker:

Find out by taking the gift biz quiz,

Speaker:

access the quiz from your computer at fit dot L Y

Speaker:

slash gift biz quiz or from your phone by texting gift

Speaker:

biz quiz to four four two,

Speaker:

two, two.

Speaker:

Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the

Speaker:

next episode.

Speaker:

Today's show is sponsored by the ribbon print company.

Speaker:

Looking for a new income source for your business.

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Customization is more popular now than ever brand your products with

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your logo or prints,

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a happy birthday,

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Jessica Griffin,

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to add to a gift,

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right? A checkout it's almost done right in your shop or

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cross studio in second,

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check out the ribbon print company.com

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for more information after you listened to the show,

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if you like what you're hearing,

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make sure to jump over and subscribe to the show on

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iTunes. That way you'll automatically get the newest episodes when they

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go live.

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And thank you to those who have already,

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and you left a rating and review by subscribing rating help

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to increase the visibility of gift biz on raft.

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It's a great way to pay it forward,

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