015 – Get Business Without Having to Sell by Jill Kirshenbaum of Intermezzo VP

Gift biz unwrapped episode 15.

Hi, this is John Lee Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,

and you're listening to the gift of biz unwrapped.

And now it's time to light it up.

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unwrapped your source for industry specific insights and advice to develop

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Sue Monheit.

Hi there.

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And today I am so excited to have Joel Kirschenbaum with

us. Jill is the chairman and partner of Intermezzo VP,

corporations, associations,

and professional organizations across the country have benefited from Jill's personal

blend of humor,

storytelling, coaching,

and training workshops.

With over 22 years of experience,

she focuses and trains on the behaviors,

attitudes, and techniques necessary to help individuals and teams achieve their

vision in revenue growth.

Jill has been recognized frequently throughout her career for excellence in

sales one,

look at the recommendations on her.

LinkedIn profile tells you the whole story.

On the personal side,

she values a work-life balance with her wonderful husband and beautiful

children. Welcome to the show gel.

Hi To thank you for having me.

Is there anything you'd like us to add to your intro

before we get started?

No, I mean,

that was a wonderful introduction.

Like to align the conversation around the life of a motivational

candle, the light shines on you while you share your stories

and experiences.

So shall we light it up?

Wonderful. What color is your candle?

You Know,

I think it's a nice,

kind of like a burnt orange,

which is,

I think one of the most beautiful colors love the flowers,

like the Gerber flowers and everything else that go with it.

You know,

the Gerber Davies that are bright orange,

those are my favorite.

So it's a bright orange or a burnt orange.

It's more like a burnt orange.

It's just this really good spicy orange.

Ooh. A little pizazz there then.

Yes, I see.

Okay. And What is the quote that's on the candle?

You know,

I'm a big fan of Teddy Roosevelt.

I wish I was around during his time in office.

I think he's one of the most fascinating individuals in our

history. And he has one quote,

which is very long,

which I would recommend people look up.

It's called the critic,

but to give you some insights on his mindset,

when it came to leadership and really taking risk and being

okay with failure,

which are incredible traits to have in a leader,

he said that nothing in the world is worth having or

worth doing,

unless it means effort,

pain and difficulty.

And then he went on to say,

I've never in my life envied a human being who led

an easy life.

And when you think about all the sweat equity that we

all put in on a daily basis,

especially when we have passion for our business and we spend

all that time and energy on that,

I'm sure a lot of people can resonate with that.

Absolutely. I think as entrepreneurs,

we all think,

you know,

well, we're going to be our own boss so we can

write our own ticket.

When I make a lot of money,

we're going to have all this time in the world and

nothing can be further from the truth.

Right? There's so much that people don't recognize,

even though they're so good at their trade.

And they're so good at their skillset,

it's no longer,

so easy for people to say,

well, if I build it,

they will come Today.

We are focusing on sales and I'm not talking about the

dollars coming into your business,

but the psychology behind the process of selling.

Have you ever felt like you're having a great meeting and

then all of a sudden it ends up very differently?

Or do you ever feel like you just don't get somebody

and are uncomfortable around certain types of people?

This can be really tough,

particularly if it's happening with a decision maker for an important

deal. You're trying to close.

Jill is here to shed some light on why this happens

and help us to learn how to work through situations such

as this.

So Jill,

I'm just going to hand over the mic and take it

away. Okay.

Well, I mean,

it starts with the philosophy that people like people who are

like themselves,

when you're talking to somebody who is like you,

in other words,

maybe they live in the same neighborhood,

grew up in the same neighborhood.

Maybe they have the same world that they're surrounded with,

like yours,

around friends,

around favorite restaurants.

When there's commonality,

people feel more comfortable when there's not commonality,

when there's nothing that they have in common where they go

into a sales meeting and they've got nothing in terms of

knowledge, in terms of the background of the person,

that company,

anything else,

obviously, there's going to be an immediate misstep in terms of

the ability to bond with the person they're meeting with one

of the greatest things that I've found as of the last

5, 6,

10 years,

is that before you actually go into a meeting,

you can do a couple things.

You can go online,

you can actually go onto Google.

You can look up the company,

you can look up the person you're meeting with.

It's the first thing pops up is LinkedIn,

go to the profile,

see what they're all about.

One of the best things you can actually go from there

on is,

go and look and see.

Are they connected to the people that I'm connected to?

Is there a common thread in terms of the people that

they know that I know?

And if I actually had a conversation with that person that

I see is my prospect and I sat down with them

and the first thing I said to them,

other than thanks for inviting me in,

it's good to see you or meet you in person.

It could be something to the effect of,

Hey, I was,

I couldn't help,

but you know,

go onto your LinkedIn profile.

I noticed that you're friendly with Bob Smith.

Can I ask how do you know Bob and watch how

they relax,

watch how they just absolutely share how much they actually know

about Bob,

that personal friend of theirs they'll feel more like you are

one of their world wide friends,

right? The people that they actually really feel comfortable with because

you have a commonality that takes them back to being at

home on a weekend,

hanging out with Bob.

It's not so stiff where you're just going in to meet

and they feel like you don't understand them.

Do you think people accept that your researching them before a

meeting? I think in the past it was a little bit

stocky, but now with all of the online information and of

course LinkedIn,

just like you're saying,

do you think people accept that type of situation?

I think a lot of people do.

I think it's changed in that.

Yeah. I mean,

I still call my LinkedIn page when people do come onto

my LinkedIn page to check me out and they do it

a couple of times,

I've tended to call it a stocker page.

You do see people show up again and again and again,

it's kind of like,

okay. And,

and it's almost like this.

I say that your LinkedIn profile is almost like your company

store. And if your company's store was on LinkedIn street or

LinkedIn avenue and people would basically walk into your store,

wouldn't say a word,

check out the merchandise.

I E your profile,

your connections,

your world,

your comments,

your accolades,

they check out your profile just like they would in your

store. And then they walk out and they don't say anything.

But what they've done is they've deposited kind of an imprint

that happens to be on that LinkedIn site of yours that

says who's viewed you who's viewed my profile.

Well, these people all came into my store.

They just didn't bother to say hi.

If I happen to see someone in my store,

though, that I actually do want to reach out to just

like I would,

if I was a merchandiser in that store,

I might actually step out from behind the desk.

I might actually extend a hand.

I might actually say,

Hey, thanks for stopping by my LinkedIn page.

Was there something that I can help you with?

Is there something you're looking for?

And what's cool about LinkedIn.

Now you could actually say one more thing.

You could say,

Hey, I noticed you're connected to Bob Smith.

I'm surprised that we've actually never met.

Are you open to getting together and talking on the phone,

you'd be amazed how many people have stopped by my page

where I have reached back to them to do just that

where they have I say within 24 hours gotten back to

me on an email to say,

that's so funny.

I was just talking to a friend of mine about you.

It's amazing.

We know these people absolutely that's get together.

So do you do that as part of your business week?

Do you have a specific time,

or do you integrate that into your schedule on a regular

basis? I've made it a habit and I know it sounds

a little weird,

but you know,

you ha you know,

you, you can't beat them.

You join them.

I used to stay away from that whole LinkedIn vibe again,

you know,

stalker-ish kind of behavior,

but then when I figured it out and I started looking

at it,

like my LinkedIn was a company store,

I really felt differently about it.

It became a daily routine.

I think for our Listeners,

this could apply.

If you're trying to get into a big corporation in your

area, you know,

you're trying to present your services or,

you know,

show them what you have,

or you're trying to get into some specific targeted people,

Big or small local or international.

The world has shrunk,

right? We are all two to three to four steps away

from each other.

And there are other tools that are out there beyond LinkedIn,

like reachable.com

is another great one that you can go to.

It aggregates everything from Facebook,

from Google,

from LinkedIn,

from any other social media that you might have.

It pulls everything together.

So that when you're talking about Bob Smith and you put

him in reachable,

it'll show how many degrees on a one to 100 scale

away from that person,

your mutual friend might be,

it gets really small.

This world,

you know,

involving social media and really leveraging social media has really changed

things. We can still meet face to face and remember on

LinkedIn. I do consider them stopping in my store,

but I immediately asked for a meeting,

leverage this,

because what happens is if they hear about you,

if they meet somebody who knows you,

if they feel like this is somebody who's familiar to me,

but I'm not sure where I know this person from the

first thing they do is go onto Google or they go

onto LinkedIn.

Make sure you have your picture,

make sure you have a description of what it is that

you do.

Make sure that you,

you know,

at least reach out to some people that you know,

so you can build up your network a little bit.

The simplest way of connecting with somebody is to actually have

somebody in common that they both,

like, you run the risk,

though. If you actually bring up somebody,

they don't like,

Oh, so how do you handle that?

Well, I mean,

LinkedIn is such a wild beast.

It can happen in you and you're meeting with somebody.

If you say to them,

how do you know this person?

They'll tell you all.

They know.

If they say this is something that's not great,

you know,

it's okay,

don't sweat it.

Just say,

no, it's too bad.

I really feel terrible about that.

You know,

I just met him and I didn't know,

you know,

the other thing though,

that you really gotta be careful about is just to not

about what's so typical.

What do you mean by that?

If you meet somebody for the first time and the weather

is raining outside,

right? Bad weather.

And the person you're meeting with has five meetings in the

same day,

and it's raining all day.

What's the most typical thing people will come in and say

to that person,

right? Talk about the weather.

Right. And if they live in a town that just had

the grateful dead over the weekend,

right? Like we did in Chicago.

And on Monday,

you're talking about what a great weekend you had.

What's the likelihood they're going to say,

did you get over to the dead concert?

It happened to me this morning.

Seven people came to me and said,

did you go to the desk?

You know,

I got tired of telling the story the first time it

was fun and funny,

but the second and the third and the fourth,

I got a little tired.

I ended up finding myself after the seventh gone.

Yeah, it was a good time.

Then I'd walk away.

So, but then,

you know,

it does happen that people talk about what's most prevalent,

what's most common.

What's most typical.

It's just part of our DNA.

You got to make an effort to find something else,

go on their website and see,

are they a small company?

And they just won an award.

Are they a big company?

And they just made some high,

significant hiring.

Are they a medium sized company where they're looking to bring

in new products and services or they're going to some different

event, or they've been up for some sort of a bigger

award or you're meeting with a person.

And it looks like they just got some recommendations that were

pretty significant.

This is the stuff that people really thrive on.

Right. And it gets to the whole point that people like

to talk about themselves.

Yeah. One of the greatest meetings I ever had,

I walked in and I said,

so talk to me about this business.

I can see that it's really booming.

You know,

how did it start?

And the guy talked for 90 minutes and didn't stop.

And he looked at me at the end and he said,

that was the best meeting I've ever had.

You know what,

Jill, I've heard stories like that over and over again.

And I've even witnessed it myself.

And you may not even have been talking about your product

or anything,

but they've already been sold.

Yeah. Cause he literally,

I mean,

this was one of the greatest clients I read,

but this guy and I shouldn't say guy,

I mean,

we all do.

We're all guilty of that.

Right. Puff up our chest.

And we're so excited about our products and services and everything

else. It is hard when you go in and talk to

somebody about what it is that you do,

that you feel so dedicated to fixing whatever problems they have.

But the one thing that people who are really good with

their stuff and describing their stuff and have all that education

about that stuff and they,

they feel so strongly about that stuff.

And so passionately about their stuff.

They forget that the radio station playing in the head of

the person across from them is w I,

I F M you know,

that stands for what's in it for me.

What about what I need?

And this is,

so I hate to say it typical of what we still

see in people's selling process.

If we could just suppress that desire to share what we've

got. Imagine that box in that box contains all of your

education. All of your years of experience,

all of your awards,

put that box in the lap of the person.

We don't have to say anything.

And you can say,

now, do you get it?

Do you get what I do?

Do we need to talk anymore?

But it doesn't work that way.

You need to hold on to that box,

put a key in it and lock it up.

Talk about what it is they're looking for.

Figure out whether or not it's something that you can help

them with,

but really understand.

Are they going to be more dedicated to fixing that issue

than you are,

Right? Only the single topic that you say helps you overcome

being totally blindsided in a meeting where you think things are

going good.

And then all of a sudden,

the guy's like,

yeah, not interested or where you're just not relating to somebody.

You would say,

if you're in a situation like this,

more than likely,

you've had the attention on you and what you want,

and you really need to turn it around and be focusing

on them,

what they want,

the types of things they're involved in their business,

all the things that are personal to them.

Right. If you're just going to have the casual conversation upfront

about the things that are going on.

Yeah. Just be careful.

Don't put it all on.

You. Make sure you turn it around to talk about their

world. If they're open to that,

some people don't want to talk about their world and that's

okay. Be okay with that.

You remember Teddy Roosevelt's quote is more about being okay with

objections. They okay with pushback being okay with people who are

not necessarily like you.

One of the best tools you can actually use where you

can actually have control,

right? Because you can't control what they say,

how they react or what they do,

but you can control what you do.

If you can just remember to do what they do in

terms of mirroring and matching what they do with their body

language or their arms crossed,

stop thinking that they're shut down or they're not paying attention,

or they don't want to be there.

You know,

in some cases they just might be cold or comfortable with

their arms crossed,

but cross your arms,

match them.

What does that do,

Joe? It makes them feel more in tune with you.

Believe it or not.

It makes them feel more comfortable with you.

You can play that game a little bit,

cross your arms when they're crossing their arms.

Once you're really engaged in a conversation,

drop your arms,

watch what they do.

It's like two Gazelles dancing together in the same kind of

rhythm. And they don't know they're doing it,

but you can control that.

You can control the tonality that you have.

If they're really loud in the way they speak,

you can speak a little louder.

If they're really soft in the way they speak,

you better not speak loud.

Print it down.

If they're slow,

talk slow.

If they're fast,

speed it up a little.

If they have a Twain.

So if they have a Twain,

don't go there.

Not, not a good idea at all.

Yeah. That probably would not be a good idea.

Right. But so are you saying that when you mimic them,

they're feeling more comfortable because that's already their style.

So you're kind of integrating into their style.

I Wouldn't call it mimicking.

I mean,

I mimic my brother's once in a while just to have

fun. Right.

But I'm not,

I'm not saying mimic,

I'm saying be conscientious of the pace and the speed and

the tonality,

you know,

in general that they are using with you.

Okay. That's a good one.

That's a good tip.

Okay. Yeah.

I mean,

should always ask yourself afterwards,

you know,

how was I with my bond,

right? How was I with what I was supposed to be

doing? And in terms of being okay with this person sitting

in front of me,

you know,

dealing with problems that I might be able to help them

with or dealing with opportunities that I might be able to

even bring in even more for.

We've now talked about making sure that you're turning the attention

to them and talking about things that they are interested in.

We've also talked about being very conscious of tonality and body

motion. So those are two things.

Is there anything else that you would add?

Yeah, I think,

I think one of the biggest traits that I've seen,

because here's the thing,

the world,

because it's become such a buyer's market out there because people

can shop before they actually meet you because people can check

you out on LinkedIn before they actually meet you.

Because there's this inserted level of the web inter intercepting meetings

in general.

I think once you get through the web,

once you actually are face-to-face you gotta be okay with not

being okay.

In other words,

if you're sitting in front of somebody and they don't necessarily

need you,

they don't necessarily want yeah.

At some level you need to be okay with saying something

like, you know,

I get the feeling it's not going to work out or

I'm okay with just moving on.

Just tell me.

No, I think we need to be a little bit more

rejection proof because there is so much shopping around.

It's causing a little bit more anxiety and people when they

go to meet where,

you know,

maybe it's fewer and farther between where they're not actually getting

a lot of these meetings.

And so when they do,

they have all this energy that they bring into the room

and they want to sell,

well, the person across from doesn't necessarily want to buy Well.

And it also makes you look a little desperate,

right. You know,

if your energy is too high,

and if for some reason you're able to push someone into

a purchase that they really weren't comfortable with or didn't want

it's most likely not going to be a good relationship throughout

however long that project lasts.

Right. It's almost like to your point that this is just

not a match for today.

It doesn't mean that it won't be a match next year,

right. Or some other time in the future,

or they like you enough that they would refer you for

your services.

They don't need it,

but someone else might that they know Exactly.

And having those resources,

by the way,

or having that ability.

I, you know,

sometimes people have called me the Iggy girl,

you know,

I got a girl,

I got a guy in nine times out of 10.

If somebody tells me something they need,

and it's not what I provide,

I will say,

well, I've got somebody that might be able to help you.

Are you okay if I connect you?

They love that.

Yep. And I think if we can all do that,

have your world.

If you're a trusted advisor,

then share your resources and share those good people that give

you great vibes or give you great service or great have,

have done wonderful things for the people that you've referred them

to before.

That is some of the best stuff out there from a

business standpoint,

because people trust people like themselves.

Great information,

Jill, thank you very much for sharing all of this with

us. We are going to move now into the reflection section.

What is one natural trait that you have that you think

has helped you to be successful?

You know,

I think it's one of the toughest things for a lot

of people,

because the last thing people want to think,

or that people don't like them,

right. That,

you know,

we all have this innate feeling like we have this need

for approval here and there.

Right? None of,

none of us really like working so hard,

just so that somebody can say no to us,

nobody really likes,

you know,

working so diligently that then things don't go their way.

Don't we all want to just get along,

you know,

like in the dead show,

free love.

It's, you know,

we just all need to get along,

but the dead show is a theme throughout This whole interview.

So we're covering from a great weekend.

So what's the trick,

the trade Is this,

you know,

I I'm okay with rejection.

I'm a big girl from a business perspective.

They will still maybe like me as a person,

respect me as a human being.

But for some reason,

my stuff may not fit their world.

I'm okay with that.

If I take it personally,

that's hard,

that's hard.

Right. But to separate out the personal from the business side,

this is just business.

There'll be more I move on.

I wish everyone could do that.

You're right.

Because then you're ready to go and still motivated to do

it again.

The next day That's saying,

you know,

feeling of,

you know,

I'm willing to give this off before I even get there,

but you know,

at least reduce the,

the stress,

the tension,

the anxiety of trying to sell somebody today.

Well, no one's going to land it a hundred percent of

the time.

I wish it was that easy.

It's that pixie dust,

you know,

I used to have it.

I could sprinkle it on everybody and then they'd all understand

and buy from me,

but that doesn't happen.

What book have you read lately that you think our listeners

would find valuable?

There's a book by David Allen that I just went back

to recently and it's probably the third time I've read it.

And it's a nice short book.

You know,

it's only about 120 pages I love.

And it's about process.

It's about time management.

It's about keeping things organized.

You know,

it's about really getting the world connected between work and home

because it is connected.

It's called getting things done.

Yeah. And give biz listeners just as you're listening to the

podcast today,

you can also listen to audio books with ease.

I've teamed up with audible for you to be able to

get an audio book.

Just like this one that Jill is recommending for free.

All you need to do is go to gift biz,

book.com and make a selection that again is gift biz,

book.com. All right.

So, you know,

in the intro,

Jill, you were talking about the balance in your life that

you like to create.

What tool do you use regularly to keep productive or to

keep that balance in your life?

You know,

It's funny.

And I think I've talked to you about this before that

I don't really believe in a balanced life because otherwise I'd

be really bored.

And I,

I, I kind of call it an imbalanced life.

I mean,

look, my,

my colors,

spiced orange because I like a little spice in my life.

But the fact is that,

you know,

the kids are running in 50 different directions.

I have a puppy who's running in 50 different directions.

I have a husband and running in 50 different directions.

My life grows arms and legs on one side.

And on the other side,

I've got this business side where as we've discussed,

things can happen.

Things can not happen.

Things can be up,

things move down.

There's always planning.

There's always strategy.

There's always implementation.

But the both,

both sides intersect because isn't it normal that during the day

you start thinking about something and work,

but then all of a sudden you drift off to dinner

tonight and you got to pick up this thing at the

grocery store.

So you can make that chicken dish that you've been dying

to make doesn't it happen in normal course of the day.

And that we don't want to forget about it,

but we think about it again at three 30.

And then again,

four, well,

two things that I really like.

There's one I love,

I have an iPhone and there's an app out there called

up next and up next takes notes with dates,

times locations and in David Allen's way of getting things done.

It's probably one of the greatest tools because in here I

can have,

you know,

I got to schedule a haircut for my daughter.

I got to get the groceries this afternoon for that chicken

dish. I need to call Bob Smith tomorrow because you know,

we need to talk about the next meeting that we have.

I need to plan that talk that I'm doing in a

couple of weeks.

I need to do that.

I needed to do these things.

And, and it gives me locations and times and dates that

I have.

And when the time comes,

I can set up the reminders 30 minutes before the event

has to happen a day before the event has to happen.

And it takes such little effort for me to put this

in. I'll be at a red light,

and I know you're not supposed to be using your phone

or texting,

but at a red light,

I'll pop in a task by the way.

I'll forget about that Pasch until later on.

But then it'll up that this afternoon,

I need to do that.

If I didn't have that,

this is my own little and the coolest thing about it

is when I actually complete it,

I checked a little box with my thumb,

you know,

and just basically say,

okay, I'm done.

And it just does this cool,

like disappearing Act.

Oh, so you got like a little reward then when you've

completed it.

Yeah. It's like my own little candy.

What's what's the second one.

I think you said you had to.

Yeah. The second one is in the morning,

I do make that list.

It's called getting things done list.

I mean,

literally David Allen taught me back a few years ago and

I really do believe,

and it's nighttime or for,

for about eight minutes in the morning over coffee and you

take out a pen and you take some paper and it

really feels good.

You start dumping everything out in your head,

everything from what it is that you need to make sure

that you get done and even the steps in between.

So the presentation itself had to do a little research,

right? When was I going to do that?

And where was I going to do that?

I mean,

all that goes into this eight minute exercise and when the

bell rings at eight minutes,

I stop.

And the feeling that I have when I'm done writing out

everything that I got to do,

the calls,

I need to make the people I need to schedule with

the conversations I need to have with you,

Sue. I mean,

all these things,

then I feel when that bell rings so relaxed,

it's a fervor.

I mean,

it is crazy.

It was those eight minutes.

Don't get in my way.

I am really writing it all out.

Three pages later,

it's all out of my head and on paper.

Yeah. Well,

What I really like about that is there's a limit it's

eight minutes.

So you got to get in there and you got to

get it done.

And then after that eight minutes,

you have a really clear focus on your day.

Yeah. And then the crazy thing is,

you know,

I do it over coffee,

but what I do is I keep that notepad next to

my bed at night with a pen,

because inevitably I think we're all guilty of this at two

or three in the morning,

I'm going to wake up with the mindset of,

I forgot to call that guy.

I forgot to do that thing in the dark.

I take my pen and I get it out of my

head and I put it on the paper in the dark.

I might have chicken scratch when I wake up in the

morning, but I can read it myself well.

And probably just by writing it down,

you're going to remember it too,

Out of your head.

Yeah, For sure.

And it doesn't bother you anymore.

We're getting close to the end of our time together,

but we still have a very important question to get to.

And that is the dare to dream question.

I would like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

This is your dream or goal of almost unreachable Heights that

you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What is inside?

Wow. So thank you for the gift.

Gosh, it is how big in that box B it can

be as big as you want.

Gel. I box might have chambers in it,

right? Because I do believe that there's,

there's the dream for the career and there's the dream for

the family.

So give us some detail about both of those dreams.

So on the career side,

you know,

having a business like this one that can grow is a

very exciting thing for me,

where I can help a lot of individuals,

not only in their businesses,

but to connect with people that can also help them with

their business.

And what I've found is I have over the last 22

to 25 years,

I've developed some very strong relationships.

And during that time,

I've been able to talk to a lot of people who

are between successes to try to help them to connect to

people in my world.

I've tried to help a lot of individuals who just aren't

sure exactly where they want to end up.

They want to change careers.

I connect them with others who can also be a sounding

board for them to figure it out in this box.

I would have that gifting expanded to have a world where

we can just help each other out and do the right

thing and develop even more of those streamlined partnerships and employ

people and help them all to be successful.

That's what I want.

And the other box,

all that work that I do,

of course,

I want to have some rewards for that because yeah,

we all work hard and shouldn't we be okay with actually

spending some of that money?

Yeah. I want to take my kids on their own trips.

I want to take my daughter to Aruba before her bat

mitzvah day.

I want to be able to take my son to Israel

for his,

I want to be able to do more for my family,

have my husband and I take a trip to Bora Bora.

I don't know.

We go somewhere.

So it sounds like a lot of travel it's travel and

it's, it's great time with family.

I have nieces who I love to take with us family

members and just be together in a nice warm,

or a really cold ski lodge or on a sailboat somewhere,

but having the ability to break away and do that.

That sounds wonderful.

If our listeners wanted to learn more about you or your

business, where should they get in touch with you or how

should they get in touch with you?

Well, I think my LinkedIn page is great.

It does provide you with a little bit more insight on

who I am.

And I don't mind if you stock my page and you'll

see my,

you know,

my email,

my contact information,

cause that is my company store.

My website is in the works right now and you know,

and that's all exciting.

We should all have this website,

but I still think people want to check out people.

So if you want to check people out,

you don't go to their website necessarily you go to their

LinkedIn page.

So that's probably the best way.

Okay. Super and gift biz listeners.

As you know,

if you jump over to gift biz,

unwrapped.com, you will find Jill's show notes page,

and it'll give you all the information links to the tools

that she's mentioned today.

The book,

just everything that you want to know so that if you're

driving or walking your dog or at the club,

and you don't have a pen in hand,

you'll still be able to capture this information a little bit

later. I will also once Jill,

your website's up,

I'll also put it into the show notes page.

that website,

when it does go up will be dropped into the show

notes page.

So Jill,

thank you so much for spending time today and for sharing

your journey and your insights on how we can be better

salespeople. I really appreciate it.

And may your candle always burn bright,

Learn how to work smarter while developing and growing your business.

Download our guide called 25 free tools to enhance your business

in life.

It's our gift to you and available@giftbizonrap.com

slash tools.

Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the

next episode You like to be on the show or do

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