Gift biz unwrapped episode 251 When it comes to new products

and new items,

life's about a very,

very meaningful point of difference.

Attention gifters,

bakers, crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one

now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources and the support you need to grow your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hi there And I'm so happy that you're joining me here

today. I want to share with you how this episode came

about because it's a really random yet I find over and

over again that this is how it goes.

This is how to make things happen.

So it also serves as a lifetime example.

For the past two years or so,

I've been meeting up with a small group of people.

The third Thursday of the month just for fun are friendships

formed from the chamber and so sometimes our conversations do turn

to business,

but mostly we connect and support each other in overall life.

I guess I'd say.

Well, a few months back we were walking out of the

coffee shop,

passing other tables on the way and Sharon stops for a

second and says,

Oh look Sue,

don't you use these in your business?

She was pointing to a brochure about a product that we

do indeed have made for the ribbon print company.

The two people at the table of course looked up and

then one of them says,

Sue, Sue,

Mon height is at you.

Truth is,

at first I didn't recognize him.

It had been years.

Rob was a very successful sales associate from my corporate days.

He didn't work on my sales team,

but I always knew he'd continue to do well.

You know how it is,

how you can sense that with some people.

Rob and I agreed to meet the following week to catch

up. Not only did I want to know what was going

on with Rob these days and what he was involved in,

but we had so many common acquaintances that I hadn't kept

up with.

I was really curious what he knew about some of them

equally. I had acquaintances that he wasn't aware of so I

knew it would make for a really interesting conversation and Rob

didn't disappoint.

He stayed connected with lots of people,

different from the many I still talk to and equally as

exciting. We each have some valuable introductions for each other people

that we've met along the way that we can share with

each other to help each other advance towards our goals.

This is a perfect demonstration of how getting out from behind

your computer screen or production studio and connecting with people can

lead to outcomes.

One of these introductions was with Roger our guests today and

that is how this episode came to be.

You're going to hear from an expert on how to find

the white space in your industry,

an unmet need that is just waiting for a solution and

then what to do to bring the idea to life.

We also talk in detail about getting placement on your local

grocery shelves,

so if you're the maker of a consumable product,

perk up your ears.

There's great stuff here for you.

Given that,

let's just get right into it,

shall we?

Today it is my pleasure to introduce you to Roger satanic.

Roger is the founder and CEO of good measures foods,

a company that is improving scratch baking for today's busy bakers.

Roger leveraged experience gained by leading triple digit growth for several

startup retail brands to launch good measures.

He has a passion for building businesses by developing winning strategies,

overlaying a healthy dose of pragmatism,

and collaborating with excellent partners.

Roger enjoys biking,

family and travel,

and Roger's personal mantra.

The measure with which you measure will in return be measured

out to you.

Roger, welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcast.

Oh, hi Sue,

and thank you for inviting me for the conversation today.

Okay. I'm thrilled that you're here and I do have to

tell all our listeners,

I had to repeat your mantra how many times,

maybe 20 before I just got it right.

You got it right.

That's the important thing,

right? Absolutely.

Now, as we start off,

I like to do something a little bit creative in a

way for our listeners to get to know you a little

bit differently,

and that is by having you describe yourself through a motivational

candle. So if you were to tell us what your candle

would look like by color and quote,

tell us a little bit more about you,

Roger. All right,

thanks. So if I was in the motivational candle,

my color would be sky blue.

And the reason or sky blue is it because it represents

the sky and the sky is endless and represents endless possibilities.

Blue sky is calm when the sky is blue,

the day is sunny.

It's a great reason for optimism.

So sky blue is my color for my candle because it

represents unlimited possibilities.

As far as motivational quote,

I have a quote from John C.

Maxwell, who's an author that's focused on leadership.

It's life.

It's a matter of choices.

And every choice you make defines you.

And this one special to me,

especially because I've used something very simple,

an abbreviated version on my children as they were growing up.

The version I use on them is life is about the

choices you make.

And they heard it from me probably a hundred thousand times

as they grew up.

And now I have a 23 year old and a 25

year old boy and they'll play It back to me sometimes

that life is about the choices you make.

Oh, so you're getting a taste of your own medicine here.

Yeah, absolutely.

But at the end of the day,

what you choose to do,

and also importantly,

what you choose not to do will make up what you

are. It defines you.

And for me,

it's a reminder every day what I decided to do and

what I decided not to do,

there's a question around that.

Does it help me meet my personal goals,

my professional goals?

And you're in control,

you know,

and I think so often there is the mentality out there

that things happen to us versus us taking control and making

things happen for ourselves.

And that's what this quote tells me too.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's a great add,

Sue, We get this life to live and why should we

be reactionary when we don't have to be sitting?

That way we can make things happen for ourselves,

which is what all of us who are listening to this

show want to do.

We want to take something that we're making and creating and

either start sharing it with everybody or continue and grow our

following so more people can have the things that we make.

We are masters of our own destiny.

That's right and you are going to help us out with

that as we get into your product.

I'm so excited.

I never knew a product like yours existed and yes,

I'm teasing the audience right now because I want to start

with what led you to good measures.

It's always so interesting to hear the path that people take.

So share a little bit of your backstory with us.

Well, so this story starts like so many other stories.

It starts with cigarettes of course.

Oh, of course.

Of course it does.

I have a colleague who I worked with in the past

and he's brilliant.

He's a retired marketer and he's done great work and I

really, really respect the way he thinks.

And one of his big things is that innovation in grocery

products, which is where I play,

it's about packaging.

80% of the innovation is in packaging and 20% is actually

new products or product changes.

And what that means is things like water,

right? He used to come in for just from the tap

and then went to big bottles and then went the small

bottles. The innovation there was just packaging what was in the

bottle, didn't change.

It's still water,

but the functionality changed because if the package is smaller,

bottle becomes affordable and it gives people an opportunity to stay

hydrated on the go.

That's a perfect example.

Yeah. Yeah.

So this was six years ago,

seven years ago maybe,

and we were having lunch and he had a new piece

of consumer insight and the insight was,

it's a bit dated now,

but the insight was when the average smoker goes out to

a bar,

they smoke five cigarettes in the night and that night when

they go to the bar.

So his big thing was changed the packaging and changed cigarettes

from a 20 pack to a five pack and you'll be

meeting a consumer need.

They won't have extra cigarettes,

they'll have just what they need for the evening out.

And he was interested in potentially trying to get that off

the ground.

And for many,

many, many,

many reasons,

I had no interest in going into the tobacco business.

So what I did do after lunch,

he said,

let's, and we went over to a local grocery store and

we walked around the grocery store revealing.

We walked up and down every aisle and we stopped in

front of every category in the store.

And what we were looking for is a category that hadn't

had any packaging innovation for quite some time.

So we walked the store twice and we ended up stopping

in front of the baking category.

In the baking category is things like flour and sugar and

ingredients you used when you scratch bake and we had a

suspicion that that category looked a whole bunch like it did

of packaging innovation.

We Googled it,

we looked online and we did see that the section in

the store didn't look too different than it did back in

Yeah. I'm picturing what you saw on the shelves were maybe

pound and half pound bags of flour and sugar and different

brands of course,

and each of them might like the packaging looks different in

terms of branding,

but the sizes and just in the big ball,

that's it,

right? That's what you saw.

That's right.

The categories,

predominantly big bags.

It's five pound bags of flour and four pound bags of

sugar and the graphics have changed over time,

but not quite as much as you may think.

And the bag still poof out all the flour.

When you pick them up,

right? Exactly.

The sections of math because the bags poop out the flour

and it drops down through the shelves.

And if you're not cleaning it 24 times a day,

the flour will leave residue on the shelf.

So it was a little bit messy and we did a

little more research on this category.

people. Now it's 2.4

people. It's decreased quite a bit over the last 70 years

and people are baking a lot less from scratch because there's

alternatives. You could buy pre baked goods or you could buy

mixes that have all the sugar and flour and everything already

combined. So you only have to add water.

So what had happened is the consumers have changed quite a

bit and how they use the products have changed quite a

bit over the last 70 years.

But the packages were still four pound bags and five pound

bags on the shelf.

So our opportunity was to try to find a package that

fits better with today's consumers,

with the baby boomers,

with the millennials.

And with the gen X and that's what we did.

So what our product is,

it sounds kind of simple but it meets a need,

right? Just like bottled waters,

kind of simple.

And what we do is we pre-measured the products,

the flour or the sugar,

we put them in one cup premeasured pouches measured by weight

because that's how baking is supposed to happen.

And we put those stay fresh pouches,

six of those into a box and the consumer gets to

open them when they need them.

It keeps the product insights fresh and it also is very

neat. It's neat in the pantry,

you don't have to have a big bag this rolled up

or a bag that you've dumped into a secondary container.

You open it when you need it and ordered into your

recipe and the other ones remain closed.

Impression until you need them.

So that's our company.

It's called good measures.

That's our brand name.

And our tagline is scratch baking made simple because that's what

we want to do.

We want to help people not lose that scratch baking but

make it a little bit easier for them.

So that is absolutely brilliant and I think everybody who's listening

can see the application and understand the value of what you've

done. I mean I know there's way more to this and

I'm going to dive into the story a little bit more,

but it's very simplistic in the way you said it.

Like you just went in,

you identified the need,

you did some research,

you looked at everything.

Now you have your solution.

So that's from like idea creation to finish product,

right? That's correct,

yes. Who's your target customer?

Our target customer is the occasional Baker that wants a really

quality output and if you think about it from the context

of scratch,

baking for most households is a very infrequent activity now.

So when you do it,

it's usually on a special occasion.

And if you're baking for a special occasion,

you want it to be great.

So our target audience is not the remainder of the people

that bake every day and they use up a five pound

bag of flour in two weeks and they're in the kitchen

all the time doing that.

It's the people that are going to bake on birthdays or

other holidays and they want a great outcome.

Right, and actually if I think about it,

if I'm going to bake,

I don't want to buy one of those huge big bags

if I only need a cup of flour because it's going

to go stale over time.

But with yours,

I mean you don't buy just one,

you don't buy it by the cup.

I get it.

There's, there's multiples in a box,

but they stay fresh so that I can use them later

too. I'm not opening this bag and then feeling like,

Oh my gosh,

this flower has been open for six months,

now I have to go buy a whole nother bag.

Exactly. A lot of people don't know that.

Here's a fact for you.

Wow, we're from the data's mill.

Then when it's put into the paper bags,

it starts to deteriorate and actually after six months it starts

to degregate in the quality of your baked goods isn't going

to be as good as using fresh flour.

Since our flowers sealed in the plastic pouches that extends the

shelf life to well over a year.

But if you think about the baking cycle,

there's households out there that will only bake every holiday season,

right? So they buy a five pound bag of flour,

they break their cookies,

everybody loves their cookies,

they roll out the bag of flour,

put it in the pantry,

and next year I don't have to buy flour again.

I have some in my pantry and they use that same

flour and the cookies aren't as good and they're not quite

sure. Why Were you in my kitchen,

Roger? It looks like many people's kitchens these days,

right? Oh my gosh.

Except now I'm one of those people that now we're going

to be talking about after the holidays.

But let's say I was going to make now Valentine's day

cookies, right?

I need my fresh flour.

So I'm wasting a ton of money.

Well, probably between like the holidays and Valentine's day,

I'd probably use the same bag but not come the summer.

Right. And your cooking is going to be better for your

baking. And I really,

really like,

and you and I about this when we first met,

but the whole concept of not everyone is a professional Baker

and knows all the tricks and techniques and all of that,

but lots of people when they're measuring a cup of flour

will pack it down and the results are going to be

different because really your cup and the recipes are created for,

what would you say?

Like sifted flour,

which is why you measure by weight,

right? So that's a great lead in.

Thank you.

And I'll pay you later.

Okay. Ooh,

what are you going to talk to us about now?

I don't even know.

Well, back to the fact that number two is that the

average Baker,

especially the millennials and the gen Xers,

they'll scoop the flour,

they'll scoop it out of the bag or they'll scoop it

out of the secondary container in which they put the flower.

And when you scoop the flour,

it's compressed.

So it does weigh more than sifted.

Flour and recipes generally are calling for sifted plower.

So when you do the scoop method,

your cup of flour will weigh between 140 and 150 grams.

A cup of sifted flour is supposed to weigh 120 grams

for four and a quarter ounces.

That's a big difference.

Yeah. When you're over measuring your flour and your recipe by

20% your outcome isn't going to look like the picture in

the magazine and it's going to be less than satisfactory,

so we solved that issue.

We solved that problem and taking,

take the guesswork out of the measuring with good measures.

So with your product and give biz listeners,

we're going through this,

and this is interesting for you to think about in relation

to your product as well,

because we're talking about the results that the consumer sees with

the product.

We're talking about the fact,

but then we're talking about the results.

So the results are going to be you're just going to

have a better end product,

it's going to be tastier and it's going to be what

the intended recipe is supposed to be producing.

Right, Right.

Absolutely. The other thing I would say is it's going to

be a whole lot less messy because you don't have to

have your measuring cup.

I don't know about anybody else.

If I were to sift the flour,

let's just go with that,

Roger. Okay.

If I'm going to do that,

well, I've got my sifter,

then I've got my measuring cup that I'm trying to measure

into like there's all this stuff and then the flower makes

all these like the powdery mess and with yours it just

take the bag and you put it in and you're on

your way to the next step.

That's right on.

Yeah. Flour is a very messy ingredient.

I forgot how messy it was until I started this business

up. It goes everywhere.

Oh yeah,

because the production facilities got to deal with that,

right? Yeah,

absolutely. The production facilities,

but even when I was testing in my own kitchen,

you know,

it's all over the counter top and in the crevices,

but it also gets on the floor on my clothing and

the dog.

If he's walking around and he tracks it around the house

with his little paws,

it's a messy ingredient to handle it.

And this makes it a lot easier for cleanup.

It's a lot less.

Yeah. I will say there's one advantage to the mess.

What's that?

Have you ever seen that commercial Where a woman walks through

the door and she's got like powder all over her because

she's been baking forever,

you know,

and it's like,

look at how much work I've done because I love you

family so much.

Right. That was a little fake out on that commercial too,

if I recall.

Right. She did something that was easy,

but then she went and got some flour and sprinkled under

herself to make it look like she was working.

Yeah. So do you have some separate packs that are just

for that?

That's a great idea and a great concept.

It could be a good promo piece.

Actually. I'm writing that one down as we speak.

Okay, so back to your audience.

Just a quick question.

I know I have a lot of people who are listening

who are starting to create a business and it's from their

own home kitchen,

so what they're baking is actually smaller batches right now in

testing out their product.

Maybe just doing craft shows on the weekend,

things like that.

So they're starting to bake more than just to their family,

but it's still pretty small batches.

Would your product then be good for them as well?

My product would be great for them with the caveat and

makes the baking experience much more efficient.

Right. From a standpoint,

from a cleaning standpoint,

those things.

So it would be great from that standpoint.

There's a cost angle on it.

Packaging's not cheap,

right. In the old days with flour,

they built all the packaging equipment right next to the mills,

so they would mill the flour and it would go right

into paper bags.

We have to do is we bring in flour and we

actually bring it in by the truckload and we put it

in pouches and put the pouches and cartons and put the

cartons in cases in the cases on pallets and get it

shipped out the door.

So there's a bit of a cost associated with that.

So for each of your bakers,

there's a cost benefit that goes with it.

Certainly this can make you much more consistent on the amount

that's being measured.

It's going to be a much quicker process because the cleanup's

not there and the measuring's not there.

There's a bit of a cost with that.

That's the watch out.

Yeah. I'm guessing that there is a place where the value

switches, like in the beginning,

if you're not using a lot of product it could make

sense because you're going to have fresher product so the results

are better because you want that because you want people to

buy from you.

You have less production in terms of actually making it and

cleaning time.

But at some point it flips over where there wouldn't be

the cost advantage initially.

There might be.

And then at some point it might flip over as you

grow. That's so right on.

So yep.

Okay. Alright,

so curious in terms of product development,

now let's go back.

Let's jump back into the middle of the story because you

described what you do now in your production facilities as we

were talking about the cost and packaging and all of that.

But let's go back to the point where you see an

opportunity, you see that people in the houses have gone down

and the fact that we are more convenience,

we're not doing as much home cooking and baking as we

once were.

So you see the opportunity.

What did you do in terms of testing the concept?

Cause I'm pretty sure I could be wrong,

but I'm pretty,

you just didn't go to,

okay, we're already making this product,

like step us through.

Once you really felt this idea could have legs,

how did you test out the concept?

We did a traditional,

a marketing study.

We did some focus groups,

we got people together and we started with a sorting exercise

where we put 120 items on a table and they stored

them in different ways and it's stuff that you usually see

in the grocery store.

But then it had some mockups of our product and we

got to see the people involved and engaged and try to

understand what it was.

And then from the sword exercise we kind of understood where

we positioned versus other items,

other products that are in the grocery store.

We went into more of a does this fit into your

lifestyle, the price points that you're willing to pay,

those kinds of things.

And what was really exciting is part of the focus group,

they test things out on a system they call box scores.

And the boxes are would definitely buy with definitely a probably

buy, probably would not buy and definitely would not buy.

And 100% of the people that we had in these focus

groups were in the top two boxes and the boxes that

they would definitely buy it or they would definitely,

or probably buy it.

So you combine what we learned in the focus groups,

what we had our gut feels,

and we were brave enough to go to market with it.

And you also were seeing that it was at a price

point where you could grow a business,

Correct? Absolutely.

Would you be willing to pay this price for it?

And the answer was yes.

Okay, perfect.

Well let me just stop you for half a second.

So gift biz listeners,

when I talk about testing your product at craft shows,

you're not just selling what you've made,

but you're checking to see consumers interest in it.

Maybe certain flavors,

certain sizes,

certain colors.

And then also you're testing your price points.

So Roger has to do this a little bit differently through

a focus group because he's selling flour,

right? Or measured flour.

But this is exactly what I suggest you guys do when

you're just starting out and you're at a craft show.

Okay? So it's a similar concept.

Okay. I just wanted to interject that there,

cause this was a perfect example,

Roger. So that's so important in the focus groups were a

point of reference.

But I carry boxes of the product in my car and

I talked to everybody,

friends and families about it when it's appropriate.

And I'll bring boxes into the grocery stores and ask them

about the item and if it fits in their life.

So it's a continuous process for me.

You can always get better,

right? So I'm always asking about everything from the concept to

the graphics on the package.

Let's stop right here for a quick word from our sponsor

and then we'll jump right back in to Roger's story.

Yes, it's possible increase your sales without adding a single customer.

How you ask by offering personalization with your products.

Wrap a cake box with a ribbon saying happy 30th birthday,

Annie, or at a special message and date to wedding or

party favors for an extra meaningful touch.

Where else can you get customization with a creatively spelled name

or find packaging includes a saying whose meaning is known to

a select to not only our customers willing to pay for

these special touches.

They'll tell their friends and word will spread about your company

and products.

You can create personalized ribbons and labels in seconds,

make just one or thousands without waiting weeks or having to

spend money to order yards and yards,

print words in any language or font,

add logos,

images, even photos.

Perfect for branding.

We're adding ingredient and flavor labels to for more information,

go to the ribbon,

print company.com.

All right,

so I'd like to share a little story with you about

how this business got started and we talked about the concept

and the idea and how we,

seven years ago we went from cigarettes into making ingredients.

That was a long time ago and since then I've been

working with a number of small companies,

helping them grow and grow very rapidly and it's something that

I had a strong desire to do for myself.

So we had the great idea,

but we hadn't put wheels and an engine on it to

make it go.

So you had the idea seven years ago?

Yeah, we had the idea seven years ago and it was

always on the back of my mind that the consumers need

this, that it's something out there.

Were you like worried that somebody else was going to steal

your idea if you were waiting?

Every time I went into the grocery store,

I walked by the baking section.

The CFO was on the shelf yet.

Oh my gosh.

Why did it take you awhile?

Well, I think that's probably a part of your story.

You're going to probably get into that.

I'll let you just tell the story.

How about that?

Sure. Yeah,

so it took me a little while to get to it

and the reason is because I was doing other things that

I found fun and fascinating and I believe it was meant

to be part of my journey and over the past seven

years I helped three other small startup companies grow from under

$3 million in sales,

all three of them to over $17 million,

all three of them.

So I was doing a lot of the work and a

lot of other people recognized success.

There had to be some learnings for you from that time

to then that just would make you more confident as you

were bringing your own product to market and things like that.

Without a question.

I believe the journey was there for me and I took

the road I was supposed to take at the time and

all along the way things were learned to make this venture

more successful.

So in March,

working for a small company,

helping them to get big,

great company.

We were having some success and this was really getting to

me and I knew that presentation times for retailers were upon

us. So most retailers,

what they'll do is they'll take presentations I in January,

February and March or what they're going to put on this

shelf in September and October,

which is just prior to the baking season.

So in March I was almost in a little bit of

a panic mode.

It's like there was something telling me that I needed to

do this,

but I was afraid.

Wait, can I stop you?

I have a question for you.

At this point,

had you gone through the focus groups we were talking about

or did you already have a sample product in hand?

What point in the product evolution were you in this March

timeframe? Seven years ago,

we did all the focus groups back then,

we had the concept developed.

We had a package,

although it's not the package that you see on shelf today.

We had our brand name picked out,

good measures.

We had the logos picked out and those types of things.

So the product was developed.

Now what we didn't have is places to buy,

ingredients, places to do production,

shipping partners,

package suppliers,

and most importantly customers.

So in March,

I go to church and I talked to the man upstairs,

which I do when they have big decisions to make on

my life.

And I went to really ask for guidance of which way

should I go with this.

And my hopes or my expectation were not that great.

My hopes would it be,

I would get a feeling in my stomach or something that

kind of told me which way to go.

So I'm there trying to figure it out.

I'm listening to the mass as it goes on and it

gets to the gospel.

And the last part of the gospel that day is Luke

six 38 and the last part of Luke six 38 says,

yep, and gifts will be given to you.

A good measure pack together,

shaking down and overflowing will be poured into your lap.

No way For the measure with which you measure will in

turn be measured out to you.

That wasn't very subtle.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. So I took that as a divine insight and I

actually said that out loud in church.

Oh my gosh.

And then I came home and this was in March and

by April 1st I set up the limited liability company and

missed a lot of the appointments for the retailers,

but I was able to get two of them and one

of them was a very big retailer in the Southeast and

it went down,

got our samples,

we got all our production and suppliers in order and all

those types of things.

I went down in April to see this customer.

Andy took both items and this particular retailer has 1,216

stores, which is the scale to launch a business and to

do it somewhat cost efficiently,

where you actually have a chance to make enough money to

invest back into doing things like marketing and stuff to grow

your business.

So I have the best partner in the world or out

of this world,

I guess I would say.

Well, you're right,

that sign couldn't have been much clearer than that.

Not a chance,

but you got the sign that you should do it.

Right. What made you decide pedal to the metal really,

and do it for this season instead of getting it started

gradually and then being there and ready for the following January,

which have been have been actually interestingly right now as we're

talking, right?

Yeah. So that was the backup plan and the route I

thought would actually happen,

but there was a,

some, a sense of urgency put into me about get out

there and give it a shot.

And I guess it came together pretty smoothly for you to

be able to do it so quickly.

Yeah. And what I'd like to say again is they have

a great partner That was just further confirmation that you were

on the right track.

Absolutely. He helped me meet the right people and I have

tremendous partners from a supply chain standpoint,

from production to the package suppliers,

to ingredients,

suppliers, that all,

I presented the concept to them and they got it and

they all became enthusiastic supporters.

And the first time we did a run at the plant,

all of my suppliers came out and help package products.

Oh wow.

So they will all be involved in it and for them

what's in it?

It's a little bit of,

we think this is a winner.

So a little bit investment upfront,

we get to grow with the company.

Alright. So am I correct in understanding the story that you

then had a couple of chains who were willing to take

yes. Yep.

We started small and we started with a really big retailer,

but we don't have mass distribution yet where it could be

found in the Southeast United States.

But that's okay.

The rest of them.

I'm going to hit this January,

February, and March on time with the presentations and hopefully we'll

see much bigger distribution when we look at the holiday season

next year.

Well, the way I look at that is the one big

retailer that you had had an advantage because they have the

product where nobody else does,

so I'm not sure how they promoted it and all that.

We'll get to that in a second,

but that was a huge advantage because they had something that

their competitors didn't have,

which is good.

The other thing I'm thinking,

and you correct me if I'm wrong,

this is just speculation here,

is that now you have a stronger story to go in

and talk with people as you're getting placement in stores,

right as we speak.

That's right on.

Yup. You got to start someplace and the best way to

start is with a success story of,

look what this has done to their sales and profits.

We could do it for you too.

And again,

this will also have to be speculation because this isn't the

way it played out,

but you could have gotten yourself in trouble if you had

let's say 10 major retailers wanting to bring this on.

Cause that's a lot then to figure out just as you're

starting out with the first runs.

So in a way this might've been a great way to

build it,

not necessarily slow and small cause you said you reached your

threshold in terms of financing and making it work for you

to grow,

but then you also weren't overwhelmed.

Like what if you had logistic problems or you saw something

in the packaging wasn't working or a number of things could

have happened.

So in a way,

this was the best case scenario.

Again, kudos to your partner,

right? Yeah,

exactly. There's no question that I was blessed to be able

to work through this on a somewhat limited scope because it

is helping us fill in some of the potholes that are

in the road.

Right? So it's been good that way.

But I do have to tell you,

so I find a way to get in trouble just about

every day.

So what happened?

I love that.

Okay. Give us that story.

So if I would have gotten any customers or 20 customers,

if I would've gotten too many,

I would have been in trouble for a day and then

we would have went into the problem solving mode,

figure out how to make it work.

Well, that's kind of what we as business owners,

Right? There's always a problem.

Yeah, totally.

That's the way life goes.

Some are bigger than others,

but that's just the way it is.

So for people who are in a consumable business,

because when you're talking about retailers and stores,

it's all probably grocery,

maybe multi-department like a Kmart is or target,

you know,

people who have grocery and other,

but you're placed obviously in the grocery section.

So for people who also have products who might see interest

or have interest in placement there,

share with us a little bit as if we're brand new

to this of how the division of responsibilities goes because okay,

so you go,

you have a presentation,

you are granted or you buy in shelf space in the

store or department,

depending on what it is,

who's then responsible for putting the promotions together,

having shelf talkers,

promoting it into social media or print ads,

whatever the strategy is.

How does that all get divided out?

So a lot of this is good measures as a small

company right now we have one employee and you're talking to

them. So I'm only a lot as we go and I've

learned a lot in the past that I can bring forward.

And full disclosure,

I've worked in the consumer packaged goods industry for 30 years

now. I've made a lot of contacts in the way that

I'm able to do this is through the people I meet

that don't work for the company.

But how that worked for the company,

for instances,

our major retailer that we have in the Southeast,

I have a great broker partner there.

Okay. And the brokers,

the in between on the manufacturers and the retailers.

And he was able to gain access,

which is one of the big barriers when you try to

go to retail stores.

It's just getting audience.

Let me talk to you about something because those people who

make those decisions are inundated with those requests.

So we got access and we were able to close it

as far as package development.

For instance,

the company that I buy the cartons from,

they supply the cartons,

which is great,

but they also have some value added services and they helped

with design and mock ups for sales presentations and those kinds

of things.

Again, because they wanted to see success.

Yeah, because your success is going to be their success too.

Yep. The ingredient suppliers were happy to send samples,

which the plant was happy to put into pouches for me

to take in as sale samples to the retailers.

So right now being small one person with lots of help

from lots of great suppliers.

Looking forward,

there will be a time in the not too distant future

where we're going to have to scale and then hold another

set of fun,

right. Finding all the right people to do the right things

and dividing up the responsibilities.

Who's going to own the supply chain and the manufacturing and

who's going to own the marketing and who's going to own

the back room and the accounting and those kinds of things.

okay. So for right now though,

for this last season,

the retailer then was the one who promoted the product you

had to promote and sell it into the retailer.

But they're the ones who are promoting in store and in

print that they have your product available.

Yeah, so that's a great question.

They make the decisions on it and they're the ones who

ultimately promote it,

but they don't do that for free.

Right. So if you,

we just went off sale.

We had our first ad,

we were in an ad with our picture of our product

in the store and that's very important to gain trial and

awareness. And while we were in the ad,

we had the price reduced on the shelf and the retailer

doesn't pay for that,

the supplier does or me.

So I ran at zero margin for a couple of weeks

to drive that trial and awareness to get the consumers to

try the product.

It'll bring them back in the future to buy it for

full price.

Right. And that's all just part of your product introduction,

strategy and promotion,

all of that.

Exactly. That's our investment.

And by the way,

the retailers very invested in making this work too.

When they decided to put good measures on the shelf,

they decided to take somebody else off the shelf and also

not put somebody else on the shelf.

So they made a decision which their bosses are watching and

ultimately their shareholders are watching their very best at and seeing

good measures be successful,

you know,

for their review.

At the end of the year.

It's like,

well, you put in these items and they weren't successful.

That's a bad reflection on you.

So that's another place where it's teamwork.

I want to measure to succeed.

He wants good measures to succeed.

We work together to make it happen.

Yeah, I mean this is so interesting,

Roger, because your product by nature has to go in large

retailers, not just the more local retailers,

which I want to get to in a second.

So as you're talking,

you're talking about how things have to happen on,

I get that you're saying a small scale,

but a small scale by number of retailers,

but these retailers are big,

they're mass.

Correct. So I know a little bit about the grocery industry

from my corporate life,

but to your point,

I mean shelf space is a premium and different shelf,

and I'm talking to our listeners now,

so different placement is worth,

there's different value.

So like eye level is different than lower on the shelf,

et cetera.

And a retailer,

if you think about a store,

there's only so much space available.

So space is at a premium and it gets sold and

allocate their spreadsheets and all this craziness.

So what Roger's talking about is for him to get shelf

space is a big deal because the shelf space is currently

being used by somebody.

So either someone's space is going to shrink,

get taken away completely.

Or somebody else that they were thinking about putting in won't

be put in because good measures is going to be put

in. So it's a huge big deal.

So it's interesting and really enlightening to see all of that.

And let me just make sure,

let me do a checkpoint here.

Am I correct in everything I've said?

Roger? Well said.

Okay, perfect.

So, but now I want to relate it to some of

our listeners who are like,

okay, I am not selling pre-measured flour.

I just want to get my cupcakes into the regional local

grocer that has five shops.

Okay. It's good to know how it works on a larger

scale because then you're educated and more informed when you go

in and talk to a smaller scale and something that you

can actually provide product to.

Right. So because you're properly producing out of your kitchen or

in a smaller commercial kitchen,

you know whatever your situation is.

But knowing that there's value of space allocated and how important

that is to a grocer as a business owner unto itself

is really good to know.

The other thing is,

and I'm thinking,

I don't know if you know this or not,

Roger, but on a smaller level,

if you can go in and talk about the value in

how you'll be promoting that your product is also on the

shelves of a local shop through social media or whatever avenues

you already promote your business.

Maybe you show it on a website as now seen in

here in Chicago,

we have sunset,

which is a local grocer that could also help bump you

into the store because they're seeing that you're also helping because

they want to move product.

Right? And they always want to have something new and interesting.

So don't think because you're not at Roger's size that you

don't have the value to get your product in a shop.

In fact,

I would suggest that you do because being a local Baker

provides a lot of interest and excitement into the local grocers.

Agree, disagree.

Roger, what would you add to that?

So you're right on.

Unless you're fortunate enough to have very deep pockets going big

right out of the blacks has its challenges.

And by the way,

I don't have the packets.

I got a little bit lucky with that whole thing.

But to start at a local retailer,

to go to your local store and talk to the store

manager at a time when they're not busy,

bring your product in there and get their support.

And a lot of cases that local store manager will have

the ability to make decisions and if not,

they'll be able to tell you who could make the decisions,

right? If you go over to sunset foods,

talk to that sales manager and they may be able to

bring your product right in.

So boom,

you have one store.

When you go for that conversation.

If you're selling cupcakes,

don't just walk in with a plate full of cupcakes and

have them taste them and expect it to be on the

shelf. You do need to think about all the other stuff

that's going to make life very,

very easy for the retailer.

You're going to have to know your cost and the recommended

sell price and how you're going to promote it and what

the shelf life is and the packaging.

It's going to bring mock ups of what it looks like

when it gets delivered to the store and how it gets

delivered to the store.

And by the way,

if you're small and you only have one store or five

stores, there's nothing wrong with driving it to the store yourself

saying, you know,

every other Monday I'm going to stop by and check on

your inventory and drop off some more to make sure that

you have enough product in stock.

Oh, I love that.

And I even think you start looking at which of the

first stores you might go to,

just like you were walking down aisles of a grocery store,

go into all of these and there are still independent one

or two location grocers that would love not to have to

seek out new product,

but to have you come in and show it to them.

You're doing part of their work then.

Oh they love that.

And there's always a big push for local.

And if you're the person that lives down the street and

they could promote you because you're local and you did this

and you're telling the neighbors and friends that you have and

they're telling people and it's driving traffic into the store,

it's real synergistic and it works for everybody.

Yeah, love that.

Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question.

I don't know if you're going to be able to answer

or not or want to answer how this is going to

go. So we'll see how this goes.

But you have so much experience in consumer packaged goods and

then you were helping those three other businesses grow so well.

What advice or suggestions do you have based on things that

people might either have done wrong or just not know what

to do?

Can you give us some suggestions on growth ideas or product

development ideas of things to do to start or grow your

business around the baking industry or consumable products overall?

I guess there's not one answer for it.

When it comes to new products and new items,

life's about a very,

very meaningful point of difference.

And if you're going to go in and sell the next

salsa and your is better than any other salts that on

the shelf because it has 10% more onions,

that's fine.

And you may have friends telling you that that's a good

thing and stuff,

but for a retailer it's probably going to be a little

bit of a shrug.

You know,

I heard somebody else yesterday coming in telling me they had

10% more jalapenos and that makes their salts better Because it's

a big deal taking out and putting in new products.

Yeah, and if you're a startup company,

any buyer that you talk to at a retailer has been

burned. They've taken an item in and then the company hasn't

been able to deliver.

So that hurts them a lot.

They take a risk,

they put their neck out on the line for you.

Things like how do you get UPC and how do you

put those UPC on the cartons and what are the rules

and how,

and if you put those into a master case to ship

them around,

what does that look like and what are those roles?

And a lot of things that I've learned along the way,

that goes back to being really buttoned up as you can

when you walk in.

But back to the big things pointed differences and it's finding

that white space for consumers.

What unmet needs are there out there that you can meet?

And for me it was,

well that's simple.

I've took putting flour into pouches,

but it's something that's different.

It's something that is a bigger difference than just I use

a wheat that's a little bit different in my flower that's

got a 2% less protein or something.

Right? I mean it's super different and it has real benefits.

Yeah. So that's the biggie.

If I was still in the consulting business,

I had a company called trade management partners where I was

helping startup companies,

the ones that I would want to talk to,

I reviewed their offerings.

The ones I wanted to talk to are the ones that

had those meaningful points of difference because that's easy if you

don't have the meaningful points of difference.

They're just close in points of difference,

just a little bit extra onions or whatever.

It's very hard to sell in and generally they're not going

to, if you buy your way in,

because that's what they're going to say.

I can't put you on the shelf for free.

You're too much like everything else,

but if you pay my exorbitant slotting Easton,

and is a big deal in the retail industry,

I'll put you on the shelf and you'll have six months

to be successful.

That's cost way too much money,

especially for small startup companies and it's probably not going to

be a success.

Right. Always kind of looking for something that's just little bit.

Yeah, and it could be size,

it could be flavors,

it could be style.

Maybe cause not everyone's going to find something that has such

obvious white space as yours,

Right? Yep.

In color and positioning.

I'd add That goes back to our beginning though on testing

it. If you think you have a great idea,

a great concept,

we did some formal focus groups,

but there's nothing wrong with having 10 of your friends sit

around the table and friends that you can trust to give

you really honest feedback to say,

Hey that is different enough that that does have a place

in my life.

Or they could help you brainstorm if it's not exactly right,

get where you're going,

but if we look at it this way is to that

way and change it just a little bit,

then it starts to really deliver against an unmet need that's

out there.

Excellent point.

Excellent. How far do you think relationships can go in product

placement? Like for example,

if you have some grocers who are part of the chamber,

which that might sound unrealistic,

but I know in my location for a while some of

these smaller independent grocers were part of the local chamber.

Like just having people get to know you as a person.

Cause you could also then ask questions about your product with

them. Would this be something that's attractive to your store?

Potentially. Things like that.

What do you think about the relationship angle?

Yeah, relationships are,

that's everything for me.

Since right now we're a one person company.

So relationships from all the operations standpoint,

but also from sharing mine,

getting opinions from people you respect,

getting out there and meeting others to give input is really

important. And on the selling side,

relationships are also important.

It's really about if you find somebody that's got a relationship

with those customers you want to go to,

they can at least get you access.

That gets you all the way in,

but they're going to get you face to face meeting,

then you're carrying the ball and it's your turn to make

it work.

Agreed. So once you're in the store,

what type of followup or how do you ensure that you

stay there?

You use your partners again.

So the first thing is to ensure that you get on

the shelf.

Okay. And you can purchase reporting.

If you're a small company and you've gotten this far,

the buyer,

the decision maker is probably your friend and they'll share information

with you on the percent of store selling and like that.

The Beginning of any product life cycle,

it's all about trial and awareness.

How can you buy something if you don't know what's there,

right? If you don't know what the,

how it meets a need in your life.

So the beginnings about trial and awareness and then it turns

into buying rate and trying to sell more to shoppers afterwards,

but in the beginning invest in things that will get awareness

about your brand and it may be things like the feature

ad that you were in,

the good measures was in,

it may be things like price reductions because when you do

a price reduction,

you usually get a tag on the shelf that has a

burst that says,

Hey look at me.

It could be things like product demos.

If you have a detergent that gets out stains better than

any other detergent spray or something like that,

you can do demonstrations and still gravy on your shirt and

show things up well or samples,

like you were saying in store samples.

Yes, absolutely.

Sample something sample better than others.

Right. Sampling a lollipops really easy.

You hand it over to them and they taste it and

either they love it or they hate it.

Sampling and ingredient is a little harder,

right? Because I don't want them to taste the flower.

If it's not part of the cupcake,

Right. For your product,

that wouldn't work.

Right. But I could hand out a pouch for them to

take home and that's still a type of sampling.

Right. So next time they bake,

they have the capability to,

Oh, I can pull out that thing that I got at

the store the other day.

See how it works here.

As you look into the future,

what do you think you and your partner have in store

for good measures foods?

No, that's a great question.

It's a really appropriate question right now.

Do you know today's December 5th right?

December 5th,

2019 As we're interviewing today.

Yeah. Yeah.

As our interview is today,

and what that means is we have exactly 26 days left

in this decade,

right? So it's a great thing to look back and see

what we've done over the last 3,652

days and if we're satisfied with ourselves,

but also look forward to see what we want to do

for the next 3,652

days. So your question's a great one right now is we're

getting aspirational and thinking about what we want for the future

and for me,

so for good measures,

it's a hundred million dollars in sales and then it's delivering

on our mission.

And our mission is to deliver precisely,

measure top quality ingredients which result in the best scratch baking

experience and best home baked goods,

loved by bakers,

families and friends while delivering value to shareholders,

employees and customers.

And most importantly contributing to a better world.

That part I don't have defined well yet.

It's contributing to a better world.

But I can tell you it's probably going to have something

to do with feeding hungry people and making sure that there's

a lot less hungry people in the world.

It makes sense cause it's a natural spinoff.

Absolutely. It's a natural spinoff.

It's me giving in good measures.

That's what's important.

Yeah, and you are really concrete in terms of the dollar

amount that you're looking for the valuation,

right, or the revenue,

however, whatever you want to call that number,

the product that you have with possibly extensions and all that,

and also the for more give back.

You might not know exactly where you're going,

but you know that that's part of the equation.

We have 26 days to figure it out.

Yep. No,

only 20 seconds,

right. Cause day one of the next decade you got to

get going.

Absolutely. Yeah.

We don't want to let a day go by.

Yeah. Well listen here on gift biz on wrapped,

we've started doing past guest spotlights,

so as you keep going,

I'm going to be checking back with you and I'm going

to expect a report from you.

This is an accountability section I just added in to the

show. That's wonderful.

Yeah, so you'll be able to give us all an update

of how things are progressing and what the giveback back is

because potentially we could all contribute to it.

Right. I look forward to it.

Yeah, that would be great.

Yes. Wonderful.

Well, thank you so much.

This has been a fabulous chat because it's a different perspective

entering into the market in a different way from bigger consumer

packaged goods versus what we're usually looking at,

which is the local level.

So it's given us more knowledge.

It's given us more insight,

great understanding,

and your story is phenomenal to think that it started with

cigarettes, continued into church and now what you're doing is like

a story unlike any other.

So I love it.

Thank you so much for sharing with us today.

Well Sue,

thank you for letting me share and it's been a pleasure.

You have a wonderful day.

You too.

I can't wait for good measures to be here on the

grocery shelves in Chicago.

Meanwhile, if you're in a public market,

go down the baking aisle and see if you can spot

the pre-measured individually packaged flour.

Publix was the chain Roger referenced several times and I'm pretty

sure by now they've added locations better yet.

Take a picture of a good measure citing and tag me

at gift biz unwrapped on Instagram.

If you see them giving out samples extra points up next

week we'll be talking with a brand management expert behind products

such as the foreman,

grill, OxiClean,

and GoPro.

Aren't you curious about how these products became the household names?

We know today.

Tune in on Monday to find out better yet,

subscribe to the show and each episode will be downloaded automatically.

I just learned that in iTunes these days.

Sometimes it takes a while for the latest episode to show

up in your feed,

but when you're subscribed you get it immediately right when it's

published, so there is another benefit for subscribing.

All right then make it a great week and bye for

now. I want to make sure you're familiar with my free

Facebook group called GIP is free.

It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

We've got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week,

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing,

to show pictures of your product,

to show them what you're working on for the week,

to get reaction from other people and just for fun because

we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody in

the community is making.

My favorite post every single week without doubt,

wait, what aren't you part of the group already?

If not,

make sure to jump over to Facebook and search for the

group gift biz breeze.

Don't delay.