275 – Selling on Amazon Handmade with Dana Midkiff of Pink Door Wreaths

Gift biz unwrapped episode 275,

but you have to create those words that these buyers go

find in order to even see your item inside of their

search results.

Attention gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is give to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz.

Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hi there it's Sue.

And as always,

I'm honored that you've decided to spend some time with me

today. And if you're new here,

you've joined at a fabulous time.

Obviously you can go back and listen to all the past

shows, but we've just started a new series all about e-commerce

meaning online sales platforms.

It can be so confusing.

Which one should you be on more than one?

What about your own website?

If any of these are questions you've asked yourself,

then join the team because I hear these questions asked all

the time.

So I decided over a six week period to cover the

top sales channels and give you all the goods.

By the time we're done with this series,

you'll understand the strengths of each channel.

Be able to determine which one or ones are right for

you and how to make your chosen platform work to sell

your products,

all the tips and tricks last week,

we covered eBay.

So if you haven't listened,

go back just one podcast episode to get that covered.

E-bay you may be saying to yourself that isn't necessarily a

platform I'd consider.

Well, stop right there.

Give Christy a chance to explain it and then make your

decision. You may hear some things you hadn't thought of before.

I know I did today.

We're going to be covering Amazon handmade.

We all know the attention and heightened activity Amazon has had

these last months.

Did you know,

there's a separate section on Amazon,

specifically for you to sell your handmade products with massive activity

on Amazon.

Overall, it may be the time to have a presence there,

but only you can decide and to help you do that.

Let's dive into the show.

So today gift biz listeners,

I have a wonderful treat for you.

I have Dana Midkiff with us.

She is an Amazon handmade specialist.

Seven years ago.

Dana started handmade journey today.

She has built a brand developed numerous product lines and mastered

handmade operations through the years she scaled her business so that

she could quit her corporate job.

Oh my gosh.

Amazing. And she's hired almost 20 part time employees and soared

above six figures a year.

All on Amazon.

Dana has researched,

tested, analyzed,

and hustled to find what works and now shares her learning

with all of her handmaid clients.

And we get to tap into that knowledge today.

Dana, welcome to the gift biz on wraps podcast.

Hi, thanks for having me So excited.

You are here.

I'm going to kick it off in a traditional way in

that is by having you describe yourself through a motivational candle.

So if you were to select a color that you love

and a quote or a motto or saying that resonates with

you, what would your motivational candle look like?

Absolutely. So my color is definitely going to have to be

pink. It's been my favorite color,

my entire life.

I actually named my business around it.

My business name has pink in it.

And the saying on my candle would a hundred percent be

dare to dream,

not trying to steal from like famous book quotes or anything.

But growing up,

I was very type a,

I only had certain dreams within my repertoire.

Did not think that anything like this would ever be part

of my life.

And so when I finally brought myself to dreaming about something

bigger than a corporate world and working for the man,

the entire world opened up for me.

So learning how to dream and daring to dream has been

basically the mantra that I've tried to live by for the

last several years.

And it served me well,

That does beg the question,

actually two questions.

What's the name of your business?

It's pink door Reeves.

W R E a T H S.

I say that.

And people are like,

what did she say?

Cause they think that I said reefs or something,

but we're talking about reads.

Like you hang on your front door.

We make them for all year round,

lots of seasons.

Obviously we're very seasonal.

So the end of the year is more busy for us,

but it's raised that,

that you can hang on your door from January to December.

Beautiful. And I love wreath.

So that's Perfect.

Perfect. And to share with us a little bit about that

point where you decided,

okay, I'm done working corporate,

like I'm not going to do that because I think a

lot of people,

our listeners here included think that,

see other people doing it,

but when they turn the mirror over to themselves,

they're like not so sure.

What was the pivotal point that made you actually do that?

Not quit corporate,

but start like get the idea.

Yeah. So I started the business basically to pay off credit

cards. Like how most of us start we're taking this,

maybe this talent or we're browsing Pinterest and figuring out what

it is that we think we want to try to make

to pay off that couple of hundred dollars that we just

can't seem to knock away at.

And so when it started with that,

I was a CPA.

So I was working long,

long hours.

I was doing taxes and audits and trying to do this

on the side,

trying to hustle and a couple years in doing 60 hours

a week and then turning around and doing this job,

running this business basically from 9:00 PM till midnight,

every night.

Cause at that point I had two children.

It became a moment of sitting on the stairs in my

living room,

really just crying my eyes out,

going. I cannot do both of these things anymore and having

the discussion with my husband.

Okay, well,

what does this look like for the next 10 or 20

years? Am I going to keep being corporate or am I

going to actually pursue what this might actually be able to

be something more?

So then we took the steps of trying to go part

time, figuring out if we could make the finances work.

And basically as soon as I did that,

it skyrocketed and it became the apparent obvious choice that I

could do this.

I could make it work and I could not have to

work for a corporate environment,

the rest of my life.

So that is interesting.

All these things you're saying,

Dana are just triggering me with the questions,

but not everybody sees something sky rocket right away.

Right. What were you doing that you thought got the traction

so quickly?

I did not quit my job and talk to her of

2017. The big transition point kind of transitioning into what I

have become at this point is an Amazon expert because the

transition point was when they opened the Amazon handmade in October

in that I had a PostIt that sat on my desk,

anybody who follows me,

who's seen my Facebook and how I kind of started this

journey. I had a posted that sat on my desk at

my corporate job that said,

get on Amazon or something like that.

And it was this idea of,

well, how do I do this?

And then I found out that they were opening this handmade

category and I jumped in both feet,

like ready to go,

learning everything I could figuring out how it was that I

could scale.

And as soon as I got on there,

the traction picked up,

I'm an Etsy seller.

That's where I started.

Well, I started inside of just selling in my community and

stuff. But as most handmade artists are,

we gravitate.

If you're doing these handmade artistry,

things you're gravitating towards Etsy.

So I did that,

but the sales and the increase just by getting seen by

so many more people on Amazon was a game changer for

me. Interesting.

Well, you know,

Etsy for a long time was really the only player for

handmade specifically.

So that makes total sense.

So it's almost like that little sticky note just like came

to life for you.

Like you put it out into the universe,

Amazon heard and started handmade.

So let's just go with that.

Yeah. A lot of people are intimidated by the idea of

it. Cause they think that you have to have the UPC

and you have to be this legitimate product.

And that's what the handmade category changed was the ability to

adapt to the people like us who are just making a

crochet blanket or a candle or whatever it is that you

decide that your passion is.

You don't have to fit into that Amazon mold anymore.

Got it.

Okay. So I think you've already answered this,

but let's do it one more time just to underline it

as a statement.

Why do you think Amazon handmade is the best place?

When now there are a number of them Options out there?

Absolutely it hands down.

It's the users and the users flocked to Amazon because of

the way that Amazon structures our platform.

They hold their sellers to a really high standard.

They hold their buyers to a really high standard.

They make sure that what you're doing is actually providing the

utmost customer service to their people.

And in doing that,

the customers flock to Amazon.

So you're used to getting the things in two days,

or you're used to being able to contact an Amazon customer

service, to answer your questions and stuff.

All of those things are still required of an Amazon seller

who's selling inside of handmade.

And so being able to provide that business model that fits

into what Amazon needs of excellent customer service,

great products,

being able to fulfill in high quantities,

all of these things have launched into a different type of

handmade business than what you might necessarily see on Etsy.

Okay. I mean,

when you go to Etsy,

you're specifically thinking handmade.

That's what that was always about.

Correct. But now Amazon with a handmade division also has a

lot of other users over and above handmade that could then

gravitate over there too.

And there's a whole audience out there who don't even know

that Etsy exists.

Like as long as that's,

he's been around a lot of handmade people know that they

exist and the people who have decorated for their daughter's first

birthday party,

of course,

you know,

Etsy exists.

But the people who just basically do some online shopping and

they really only do it through Amazon,

they have no clue that there's this handmade platform out there.

So if you get onto the platform that they're used to

shopping on,

it's a game changer.

Right. I can also only imagine what we've been through with

2020 right now that everybody's getting everything from Amazon already.

So have you seen from some of your clients that they're

increasing even more because it is Amazon?

Yes. Everybody in general,

at least the people that I have talked to on Etsy

and on Amazon in general have seen major upticks in the

last couple months,

just because people who never knew how to online shop or

people who had only dabbled into it,

had to figure it out in the last couple months.

So everybody's seen a big uptick,

but I mean,

I have hit sales goals now that I was hitting,

not until October of last year,

I've already hit them in June of this year.

I'm hearing the same thing over on my end.

You're not going into local shops anymore.

You're buying everything on it.

Yes, absolutely.

And for yourself,

just regular things that you're needing the toilet paper you're even

buying on Amazon now.

Alright. So for those people who don't know,

cause I want to take this from the top.

Can you share with us the different elements of Amazon,

of which handmade is one of them As far as categories?

Or what do you mean?

Yeah. Amazon handmade is a specialty unto its own under the

umbrella of all of Amazon,

right? Yes it is.

And one of the biggest confusions that I get from my

clients is understanding that handmade is simply a category.

And so they think that in doing that,

that you still have to send the items out on your

own, just like you do on Etsy.

And so when you see that you have these items that

you go on and shop on Amazon and you see this

prom badge of things that can get to you in two

to five days or in the middle of April,

it was about 30 days,

but we all adjusted,

you see this prime badge that's on there and you think,

Oh well I'm selling in the handmade category.

That's not something that applies to me,

but that is simply a method of fulfillment.

And that is where it's been.

The game changer for me is actually using these Amazon warehouses

and doing what's called FBA,

which is fulfilled by Amazon.

So you can sell something in the handmade category,

but you can either choose to fulfill it yourself.

Like you would normally an Etsy order or whatever type of

order if you're selling on Shopify or something,

or you can send your items into an Amazon warehouse and

have them send those items out to the customers in the

two to five day turnaround.

So that's possible for any product that's sold on Amazon,

whether it's in the handmade category or not.

That is correct.

That is simply the fulfillment channel of how it is getting

to the customer.

It has nothing to do with what category you're selling in.

Okay. Got you.

All right.

So we've talked about visibility.

We've talked about the customer service and the usage and just,

you know,

it's a very smooth,

clean platform.

We've all by now.

I can't imagine any single listener who hasn't purchased now on

Amazon in one way or another,

right? Yes.

So let's talk about if they haven't been on before,

I'm thinking the best thing to do is just go ahead

on to Amazon and look at the handmade category to get

a feel for the types of businesses that are there.

Yes. Because Amazon sells pretty much everything.

I would suggest that Amazon could be a fit for anybody

at this point.

Right. It really is.

I struggle when people have the whole saturation mentality because they

have it a lot on Etsy as well.

And so they look at it and go,

Oh my goodness,

well, everyone is selling baby blankets.

For example,

there's no way I could find success in that.

Well, they're also selling it on Amazon.

The difference that you can provide to your customers is great

photos. Great copy,

great information to try to get that sell.

So it's not something that you have to give up and

decide not to pursue on any of those platforms.

It is absolutely something that you can pursue and find great

success. You just have to have a business mentality about it,

having this handmade mentality that,

Oh, well,

I'm just someone who's doing a little hobby.

You're not going to turn around and be the seller that

I am until you take it and grab it by the

reins and do everything that you can to try to sell

to these people.

Right. I mean just how we are all in different places.

And we go buying things differently.

Like we all go to different restaurants for dinner.

Right. Right.

If we like handmade products,

why wouldn't we go to different places?

Possibly even online.

I even have talked with people who have Amazon handmade and

are also in Etsy,

like different audiences.

Yeah. And I still fell on both.

Yeah. You still sell on a T also.

I do.

Yes. It's nowhere near.

It's about 5% of my now at this point,

but yes.

And I have my own website as well for Shopify.

Okay. So let's talk about that.

I think that's so important.

So why do you have your own website?

I know it's a big question,

Dana. No,

the answer is you don't want all your eggs in one

basket. I mean,

it's something that takes a lot longer to get that traction

and that audience,

but you own that audience,

any type of business that you're running,

working on,

not building it on someone else's platform is the end goal.

Is am I aware I want to be in that part

of my goal?

No, I still thrive in.

I'm still employing as many people as I am because of

Amazon. But the trajectory is to even get those customers to

become so brand loyal that they find me inside of other

platforms, mainly my own website.

Right. And hopefully then you have an email address so that

you can track them,

show them new designs,

you know,

product extensions,

whatever it might be.

Not through Amazon though.

I know that.

Yeah. That's the tricky thing is Amazon owns their customers.

So you can't really reach out to them after the sale

or they're pretty picky about wheat can put inside of your

packaging when you send it to the customer.

But if you can create that brand to where they go,

Oh my goodness.

I really love this pink door reads that I got.

Let me just Google pink door Reese.

Well, if they do that,

then they're going to find my website.

Oh, Okay.

Got you.

And honestly,

in terms of passing on all the information,

that's not unique,

right? Like most of the platforms,

Etsy doesn't pass on information.

eBay doesn't pass on information.

Well, Etsy is a little more lax in it.

They don't discourage you directing sales to your website.

Like the information that you can put inside your package,

you could put www dot dot com on your business cards.

You're not allowed to do that inside of Amazon.

So they are definitely the strictest.

Okay. Alright.

Well I want to talk specifically Amazon.

So we keep everybody really focused here.

So we don't get confused with all the different platforms,

but that was a really interesting and good comparison.

And now that I've said that I do have one other

question, the comparison kind of for you,

someone told me a long time ago that Amazon is more

of a,

just a volume play because you're providing the product to Amazon

or fulfilling it yourself,

but you're virtually trying to sell through product.

So it's a value in play versus a relationship play,

Which is more what your website would be correct.

And I don't think I would argue with that.

I mean,

I see the sales that I see because I am selling

in volume.

I'm just reaching a larger number of people with that ability,

the brand loyalty and that kind of thing.

As far as selling that feeling and that excitement,

you can do that some inside of Amazon with beautiful photos

and making these sentences sound fantastic inside your descriptions,

but you can only do that so much inside of simple

listing that Amazon creates for you.

Okay. Say you're selling in volume.

Are you selling like wholesale?

No, I'm just mass producing breathe.

Yeah. Okay.

So you're mass Producing wreaths,

sending them over for them to fulfill to individual customers.

Correct. Got it.

Okay. Let's take it from the top.

If someone were to decide that they wanted to start an

account with Amazon,

what is it They do.

If you go on to Amazon,

if you just Google Amazon handmade,

it will come up with the application page.

And they're going to ask you questions.

It is,

if you're familiar with the handmade community,

it's basically a juried type platform that you're getting onto there.

So they're asking you questions as far as what percentage of

your items are made by you.

If you're outsourcing your stuff,

how many employees you have because they are trying to keep

from these things,

being Chinese sellers or someone who is creating a facility that

is employing 200 people.

That's just making the same widget over and over again.

That's not what they're wanting inside the handmade category.

And so you're going to fill out this questionnaire that is

basically proving to them.

Yes, I am Susan Smith who is sitting on my couch,

making these blankets one by one.

This is the pictures of me doing it.

It's just me.

And maybe my mom helping me or whatever.

You're playing up that aspect that,

yes, I am handmade.

I am not the rest of what you see in the

95% of the other categories of Amazon.

No business too small then.

Correct. Okay,

wonderful. So you fill out an application and then you have

to get approved.

Yes, they will approve you or not.

And then you go on and you start listing.

Now the biggest hurdle that people have,

if you are in an Etsy mentality,

is that the setup of those listings is drastically different.

Once you kind of get the gist of how amazing Amazon

is, as far as the SEO backend search engine optimization is

what I mean by that.

If no,

one's familiar with what SEO means,

but you have to create those words that these buyers go

find in order to even see your item inside of their

search results.

But Amazon truly gives you lots of ways to have that

information be found to your customers in lots of occasions and

events and different ideas for what they could purchase it for.

And you're really limited in that on Etsy.

And so the broadness that Amazon gives you in that is

a little bit intimidating to people sometimes.

Okay. When you're starting,

are there a certain number of products that are recommended to

put up right away?

Could you start with just one?

You could absolutely start with one.

There are people out there who have an entire Amazon business

built around one product are most of them,

those handmade?

No, but think about someone who sells a certain type of

item, say that they've sold on shark tank or something.

Their Amazon account literally is just one product.

So that idea that it's not so much of a number

base it's that you get good traction that you provide good

customer service.

Amazon cares about the feedback that these customers are coming back

and giving as to how you've provided this customer service to

them after the sale.

So it's not necessarily,

some people say that there's a magic number on Etsy,

as far as like that hundred listing threshold.

I wouldn't necessarily say that's the case on Amazon.

They more care about,

do you have five good products that you can provide excellent

customer service over and above just putting up a hundred products

that might be sub par.

Got it.

Well, I kind of feel like I'm thinking of my own

habits on Amazon.

I'm going,

looking for a certain product,

not necessarily looking for a certain business.

Right? Right.

So you're going to search based on the product you're wanting

to buy.

Now, if you really like that product and you want to

see what else they have in their store,

then that would be an extension of that.

But you first start with always searching for the product.

Correct. And that's where the,

like the brand loyalty that we talked about.

They're not necessarily coming and searching for my brand.

Some people do,

but they're not searching for my brand on Amazon.

They're just searching for a high quality Halloween reef.

Okay. And find nature.

My stuff shows up.

Got it.

Okay. So we have our products online.

How do we decide if we want to fulfill by Amazon

or do it ourself?

Do you want to do hands off and just sit back

and watch the money come in.

You want to take each individually?

Is that a loaded question?

No, it really is.

A lot of it is.

What's your ability.

Like a lot of people I tell them to kind of

get a comfort level with Amazon,

with fulfilling the orders to the individual customers first get used

to their messaging system,

get used to the SEO and figuring out what words and

where to put those inside of the listing before you turn

around and just make a hundred of an item and send

it into an FBA warehouse.

It's not necessarily going to bode well for you.

If you haven't still done that groundwork at the beginning to

help get that item to be something that is going to

actually put in front of people.

Right. Okay.

And then I just remember when I'm out at exhibiting at

trade shows in regular times often,

and Amazon always is coming up to me,

wanting me to be on Amazon.

Now it wasn't Amazon handmade.

It was just Amazon overall.

And one of the things that first off,

I need to have the email addresses for my product to

work because I sell software in conjunction with a product.

But also I wasn't as comfortable with the overrun that they

needed. I think,

I don't remember if it was two,

three, 5% overrun whereby if someone returned something,

you never got it back,

it was just like lost product,

kind of like spoilage.

Is it that way in Amazon handmade as well?

Well, it's essentially that you have to kind of build these

things into your business and into your costs.

So do you have more things that a customer might abuse

the system a little bit inside of Amazon?

Absolutely. But I always tell people,

if you are running a handmade business,

the pricing is a lot of times what is tripping people

up because they look at it and go,

Oh my goodness,

nobody's going to pay $15 for this.

Let me just charge seven.

Well then you don't have that margin in there built in

for the times that the refunds happen or that the damage

has happened inside of Amazon.

Do those things happen more frequently?

Yes. Because you are hands off.

So you might have an item that Amazon says is damaged,

but you have the ability turn around and pull that item

back into your own home or your own warehouse or whatever

you're working out and see if it's actually damaged or not.

It's not that they just take everything and dump it into

dumpster and you never see it.

And you get the money back.

The Amazon says you should or shouldn't get,

you have more freedom in that.

Okay. That I didn't know.

Okay. Yes.

There's a lot of misconceptions out there that,

you know what,

you just send this stuff off and maybe I sent $500

worth of stuff,

but I'm only going to get $250.

Cause Amazon tells me whatever happens,

happens. Sorry.

You're tough out of luck.

That's absolutely not the case because they want you to stay

and keep listing.

Right. And now that there's competition all the more so is

my thinking.

Absolutely. Okay.

And talking about price,

I mean there's pros and cons.

If they're fulfilling,

then you're not boxing it.

You're not taking the time in behind,

you know,

in a warehouse storing all of it,

all of that.

So there's pros and cons again,

to consider as you're pricing everything,

we're going to cover more about pricing right after a quick

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Speaking of pricing though,

I'm sure you can't just list for free and they'll send

out for free and all of that.

So how does an account work on the financial side?

So you say that you can't list for free,

but you actually can.

There's no 20 cent listing fee like ft charges per listing.

You can literally put your items up at no cost to

you. Unlimited amount of items.

Correct. Okay.

Yes. Until you actually turn around and make that sale.

So they do take a 15% referral fee from the sale

of the item,

whether you're selling it or whether they're selling it.

Okay. So if you have a hundred dollar item,

they're going to turn around and take $15 from that item,

no matter how you sold it,

if they were the ones who fulfilled that item,

then you've got an additional fee over and above that $15.

But you've got consider,

like you said,

you're not shipping that out to the customer.

You're not actually taking the labor to box that item and

print that packing slip and print that label and do all

of that.

So you got to take into consideration that additional fee is

something that doesn't necessarily have to be as scary as it

sounds. Now.

That's not a set fee.

A lot of people say,

well, what's the percentage of that.

I hear these crazy numbers where Amazon takes 30% and this

and that.

Well, it depends on the size of your item.

It depends on the weight of your item,

a lot of different things.

So they're going to take a pick and pack fee from

everything that's simply the labor for them and going and picking

it out of their warehouse.

And then the,

basically the additional percentage of that is based off the size

and the weight and that kind of thing that they're shipping

out. So it's not a dollar amount that I can sit

here and say,

all right,

no matter what,

going to pay 33% of the sales price to Amazon,

it sounds like you just have to trust them.

You do,

you do.

And that's hard for some people.

And I completely get that.

If I had tried to do Amazon FBA,

I probably wouldn't have given them as much rain as I

2017, because I had those margins built in,

I had a little bit to play with and I was

okay if some things kind of didn't go right in my

learning process.

Okay. So two questions.

Do you have to be exclusive with your products on it

Amazon? No.

None of my items are only exclusive to Amazon.

I sell the same things on my Shopify and Etsy.

Okay. Do you change the prices on different platforms You used

to have to have them price no higher.

Basically. They didn't want you to be able to get it

cheaper anywhere else than Amazon.

They have changed that in the last 18 months or so.

It was basically deemed illegal for them to tell you that

you cannot do that.

You can.

And a lot of people do have their items priced higher

on Amazon than they do on their Shopify or Etsy websites.

Okay. Good to know.

And so if you sell on Amazon and they fulfill,

are you able to provide any type of box stuffers or

brochures or anything that go with your product?

You can add stuff into it that has to do with

the product itself.

You can even brand it as far as having your logo

or that kind of thing.

Well, you cannot have anything that basically what Amazon signifies as

taking the sale off of their platform or taking the communication

off of their platform.

So you can't have an email address where they can contact

you at your Gmail.

You can't have a website where they turn around and go.

Now I say this,

but people go,

Oh, well,

I'll just got the tuba lipstick in the mail last week

from the Amazon.

And it had these packages in it.

Well, yes,

those people are breaking the terms of service.

Could you get away with it?

Possibly. Do you want to risk getting away with it?

No, it's not.

That's not how you should be handling your business,

whether you're fulfilling it yourself or fulfilling about Amazon.

You're not allowed to put that sales tactic outside of the

Amazon platform in any of your stuff.

Right. But if the person who,

for your example,

didn't get it fulfillment through Amazon.

It was probably someone at home who slipped that in.

Cause Amazon wouldn't have allowed it in the first,

Well, Amazon's not opening everything.

Okay. They're sitting in the packaging that you send.

So if someone turns around and think about it,

you'd get a lot of these things in these plastic,

poly mail.

If you're somebody who sells handmade,

you may sell your items in a poly mailer.

You're going to send it to Amazon,

possibly in that poly mailer.

Okay. So whatever's in that poly mailer.

Amazon's not turning around and opening that up to see what

type of brochures and stuff that you've added into every single

item. Got it.

Okay. They're not filtering that stuff out.

You just run the risk of,

if they do do checks on those items,

you don't want that stuff in there.

Cause it could shut you down Out a brochure that lists

all the craft festivals you're going to be at,

for example.

So Amazon is not super specific in what they tell you.

They simply say don't direct the sale off of the Amazon

platforms. So there's some lawns there that are basically tell people,

you have to decide how risky you want to get with

that. You have to decide how you want to interpret that.

You have to decide what part of your business that this

is important enough for me to put this information in here

versus deciding not to put this other information in there because

this one is borderline.

Right? Yeah.

And so you decide,

look, I,

I feel like that if Amazon were to confront me on

this and say,

you really shouldn't have this in there,

I feel like I could stay in my ground and justify

it. And so,

and so great.

That's your business decision.

It's not something that I can tell you.

Yes. Amazon will shut you down or they won't,

it's a very gray area and they kind of leave it

up to you to interpret that.

But in doing that,

you know that if they come back at you and say,

okay, this isn't allowed and you might have to face the

consequences of that,

right. It might depend on how nice the person is.

You're talking to them.

Absolutely very subjective there.

So seller central is nothing that basically do you contact on

the seller side of Amazon seller?

Central is nothing but inconsistent.

So, Okay.

So it's inconsistent,

but how do you feel the support is when you have

questions or need help with something Instead of the actual handmade

department, they are very,

very strong in their knowledge and in their support of their

handmade artists.

For the most part,

a lot of times,

what people don't do is when they're having an issue with

a customer,

they're having an issue with an item,

they just go and contact basically the general Amazon and those

people have no clue what to do with handmade items.

They don't know the special rules that were allowed.

They don't know the special return policies that were allowed.

And so when you go and contact basically general Amazon,

you're going to get a lot,

a lot of different information.

And that's very frustrating to people.

But if you do it through the specific handmade tools that

they give you,

then a lot of times you will get a very consistent,

strong answer to help you out.

Okay. That's a huge tip.

So if you're on the platform and you have questions or

challenges, make sure when you're going to support you go into

Amazon handmade.

Yes. Okay.

Wonderful. How about advertising?

It is a huge part of my business.

Okay. As it should be for a lot of people,

like once you've become substantial and you are looking for consistent

sales, I can tell you a lot of people who are

a hundred thousand dollars sellers on Etsy,

there's no way they could be that way without advertising.

I feel like it's a certain part of kind of your

overhead that have to build in to getting consistent sales and

getting traffic that constantly drives.

Because if you get that traffic that comes to one of

your items,

it's going to bring up the quality of all of your

items. It's going to bring up the traction and the visibility

that you get on some of the ones that either you're

not advertising or you're not spending advertising dollars as hound,

right? I mean,

the trick is to be selling more than your advertising costs.

Absolutely. Yes.

But I think so many people are hesitant to do that

and they just want to get onto the best platform that

can give them the most visibility for nothing.

Right. Then they want it to come free and they're like,

Oh, well I'm already paying Amazon these fees.

Then they should just let me be found in front of

other people.

Won't that's not how the world works.

That's not how the business world works.

You still have to pay for that placement and you still

have to pay for the data because that's a lot of

it is inside of Amazon.

That's where your data comes from and figuring out what search

terms are working and what's not working and what things people

are trending towards.

And that data all comes from running ads on Amazon.

Oh, good point.

Okay. So you are on at T first.

At what point once you started your business,

did you start throwing dollars into ads?

It took me probably a little longer than it should have

just because I did have that handmade mentality.

I had my stuff priced really low and it was like,

well, I don't want to give away 15% of the sale

to ads and not really understand.

But now when I coach my clients through their SEO and

their ads and figuring out where to go from here,

I like to try to tell them,

okay, yes,

we may only give Amazon $5 a day right now,

but you start to get data from that and you start

to get sales and they turn around and make that $5,

$200 in sales.

Well, I want you to remember that you keep that traction

going. I want you to get to a place where you

say yes,

Amazon, you can take that $200 a day in advertising fees

if it turns around and makes me 20 grand.

Absolutely. Yeah.

That idea that,

Oh my gosh,

I might spend $200 today on advertising.

Well, yeah,

but also make 10 grand,

you know,

or whatever that number.

It is,

whatever that conversion is.

I try to keep my conversion rate.

My advertising cost of sales rate below 10%.

That's obviously higher during holiday seasons and stuff,

but realistically,

I try to keep it to where I only spend 10

cents to make a dollar.

And you're saying that the more you advertise,

the more knowledge Amazon has.

So the stronger your dollar performs as you continue on.

Yes. How long Do you think you need to,

let's just go with your $5 a day that you were

talking earlier,

which for a lot of people,

when that adds up to a month is a huge chunk

of money,

Right? Oh yeah.

So How long do you need to do that?

Now we're going to say that there's a market for your

product. Okay.

Because we know that there are some products that just aren't

going to sell.

We think they're great,

but no one's going to pay for it.

Okay. So it's not that kind of product.

Okay. It's a product that will work.

How long do you need to be making this investment before

you can really see this is working and I am getting

the, is it a build?

It's a tricky question because so much of advertising is built

on your SEO.

So you could turn around and put $5 a day into

something or $200 a day.

But if your title literally says burlap,

pumpkin, okay,

that's not enough.

That's not enough for Amazon to go off of in order

to figure out what it is you're selling and who wants

to see it,

they'll take your money,

but they won't really be applying it in a way that

is necessarily beneficial to you or your product or your business.

Okay. It's how much groundwork you've done and figuring out that

people that want to buy your product and what it is

that they're looking for and making sure that those words are

something that Amazon can find you for.

So on Amazon,

yes, you may be selling a burlap pumpkin,

but you also need to have the words in there,

like Halloween decoration or Thanksgiving table decoration.

Okay. If you don't give Amazon those words,

your ads,

aren't going to do anything,

right. Because who's going to just search for burlap pumpkin.

No, one's going to find it Right.

That may be exactly what you sell.

You may sell a pink baby blanket.

Okay. But there's a million and a half other ways to

describe that pink baby blanket.

And you have to give Amazon as much ammunition basically in

order to get those out in those search terms,

to where those ads can actually make sense for more people.

Okay. Good point.

So let's say we put ads up,

we go a week or so and not see any traction.

Then maybe you need to go back and look at your

words, look at your titles,

but don't just discount and say,

okay, ads don't work.

Absolutely don't do that.

Like I tell people to give it,

like, if you're going to really,

really commit to this,

give it a good six months of constantly going in every

week and tweaking these things,

learning the reports and the data that it gives you.

Another kind of caveat to that.

You said a week Amazon's reports are notoriously 24 to 48

hours behind.

So realistically,

if you only wait five to seven days,

you might only have three days worth of actually good data

there. So you want to try to wait it out two

or three weeks,

let Amazon just kind of churn through your listings,

let them turn through your SEO,

figured out what it is you're selling,

and then take that data that they turn around and give

you. And they may tell you,

okay, you sell a pink baby blanket,

but someone's also looking for a few HSA baby blanket.

Okay. Well,

I need to add fuchsia into my search terms.

Okay. I need to add patient into my title,

wherever it be,

then Amazon can turn around and churn through that word now.

Okay. So it's a constant building of having items being found

of being on the platform long enough that Amazon can figure

out what it is you sell and constantly giving them additional

information as to what it is you sell Based on the

learning. Cause it just gets richer and richer over time.

Absolutely. So when you're first getting on,

let your ads run for say two weeks,

then start looking weekly thereafter.

Yes. I wouldn't touch it for the first two weeks.

Just let it do what it wants to do and then

try to pull some data and figure out where you're going

to go from there.

Okay. And the same thing for any new product that you

add, then give it some time first before you're looking at

it. Yes,

absolutely. What would you say a couple of the biggest mistakes

people make on Amazon?

Couple of the biggest mistakes.

That's a good question.

A lot of times it's not doing the SEO work ahead

of time that you've started out and you see that someone

like me has had found huge success.

So they're like,

okay, I'm going to go put up my burlap pumpkin.

And they haven't figured out who these people are.

They haven't actually sat down and done the legwork.

So Amazon gives you this really cool thing in the back

end, as far as what Etsy would refer to as your

tags inside of Amazon,

it's basically just this search terms box where you can give

Amazon up to 249 characters of literally just brain dumping,

a bunch of words.

And when I go into people who haven't followed me or

haven't learned all of these tips and tricks,

most of the time,

they're literally not maximizing out that box,

maximizing out all of these fantastic words that Amazon can use

in order to help you get found for so many occasions

and gifting ideas and all kinds of things.

So the example I like to get on Etsy,

you might say that you sell a pink baby blanket,

okay. But they only give you so many characters inside your

title, and then you want your tags to match and you

want all this and that.

Well, Amazon allows you to also get found for gifts for

girl, baby shower and gift for daughter and gift for granddaughter

and gift for there's all these additional words that Amazon lets

you get found for because that's how they search on Amazon.

And so not maximizing that potential for only getting found for

pink baby blanket,

but also getting found for the 200 other different combinations of

words that might help come into play.

Right. Right.

So you want to fill those boxes for every single product?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Because Amazon knows what to do with it,

but you've got to give it to them.

The other item that I would say is probably what we

touched on before is not advertising,

not understanding the ads.

And so they just either choose not to do it or

they only do it.

Half-heartedly look at it.

And they're like,

Oh, well Amazon took 50 cents on every dollar.

It wasn't worth it.

I'm going to turn it off and just walk away.

Yeah. You really have to give it good,

consistent effort.

Same for Etsy.

I mean,

any business that you're running,

you don't want to be losing that drive to constantly find

the new ways that people want to see you and learn

the new tips and tricks.

Like you have to be in it for the long haul

here, picking your item and then having it have exactly the

same titles and words and stuff.

Three years later,

isn't going to get you a million dollars Unless it's working

from the start.

Then you want to keep it that way.

Right? Like some products you might just land it.

Yes, absolutely.

But there's always going to be that going in and tweaking

and figuring out,

okay, well this word,

maybe isn't working so great.

Let me try to filter in something else that might bring

me even more sales.

Okay. Good sales are good,

but you can always make it better,

but constantly moving in and out for words that aren't performing

well. Got it.

So do you have someone now inside your business who focuses

totally on that?

Looking at the words strategizing,

That's still me,

my head wraps around it.

So well,

my girls are really,

really good at going through the systems that I've put in

place and the logistics and that kind of thing.

I have found the huge success I have in learning to

delegate things that I know that I can't do as well

as maybe someone else can,

this is still one of those things that I know I

still do.

I still do better than everyone else.

So it will still be on my repertoire.

Well, that's wonderful.

And it's a great example.

Just the whole story that you just talked about is a

great example that you just don't put it up there,

see results and say it doesn't work.

You continue tweaking it over time all the time.

Like it's part of your job.

It is.

So I think like for a mindset that's really important too,

to know that,

Oh, well I just can't do this cause it's not selling.

It's not that it's that you've got to learn the right

mixture, the keywords or the titles or quantities even.

Yep. Well,

on Etsy,

it's different.

And that's the mentality that it's kind of hard to overcome

as Etsy.

Once you get those certain tags that work really,

really well.

If you're selling something that isn't seasonal and you don't have

to change those things out once you've figured out those tags,

that work really well for you,

you're not doing much tweaking.

You're letting that run and letting its Etsy run with that.

Amazon gives you so many more opportunities to add words into

your backend,

that it's just an endless ability to adapt and grow and

improve totally different platforms.

Absolutely. You kind of feel like they're similar because they're both

handmade focused.

They're both online,

but completely different.

Yes. And you can use both of them in tandem,

but to your point,

find the one that brings you a result of your clearly

seen it on Amazon.

Yes. You're not the first person I've talked to who has

had a similar experience going from Etsy and Amazon.

Not making any other comments than that.

I'm just saying that part.

Oh yeah.

Is there anything else big about Amazon that we need to

cover? Honestly,

the information that I just gave your listeners is probably overwhelming

to them in general.

They're probably going okay.

Now I have 400 other questions.

Well, I mean,

I know there's a lot there.

I'm not downplaying that it's a lot of information.

What would you say to someone who's thinking about starting?

What would be your words of recommendation to them?

Try it.

And don't give up in the first week,

like you're going to get into it and it's the back

end of that of setting up that listing is going to

look intimidating.

I can't even count the number of people who have said,

Oh, well I got into it.

And the dashboard,

I literally got to the dashboard and I got accepted and

they didn't know where to go from there.

So they just quit and just never did it for three

years. So don't give up,

play around with it,

just click around,

just figure it out.

Little by little.

I still have listings that when I put them up in

2015, because I have so many listings at this point,

they look awful.

So it's a constant improvement.

It's not expected for you to have a perfectly SEO listing

up on the very first day,

play with it,

figure it out,

just constantly look at it and learn.

I'd almost suggest when you're getting on any new platform set

aside time to really figure it out.

Don't just kind of like how,

you know,

people will do with social media sites.

Oh, I got my Twitter handle.

So now I'm on Twitter,

right? Well,

you can't do that on a site and sell your product

and expect it to work for you.

You got to get to know the platform,

how to use it.

The intricacies you've shared so much gold about Amazon,

but you've got to dedicate your time yourself to learning it

For you.

Yeah. This is not a 3:00 PM on a Friday project.

Guess not in any stretch.

Yep. A little bit more about what you do.

The clients that you're attracting,

how you're working with them and how people can find you

if they're interested.

Absolutely. So my main business is the pink dories that we

discussed, but my coaching side of it is helping people overcome

these questions.

I have a free Facebook group that you can find I'm

on Facebook and Instagram at Dana Midkiff coach.

And inside of that is lots of people who are helping

each other.

We are learning the process together.

We are learning the platform and I'm helping them through a

lot of the questions that people have.

Realistically, a lot of the times,

as they start out inside the platform,

there's a lot of people in there who can help you

through it,

including me,

who just see the passion that we all have and the

excitement and know the success that can be had.

But that's where we're hanging out is on Facebook and Instagram

at Dana Midkiff,

coach. Beautiful.

I think those groups are so important to not only is

it another place to get support,

but Dana,

I'm sure Amazon handmade continues to change.

And where are you going to find out about it directly

from them perhaps,

but in groups to really understand what it's all about and

what it is can mean to you.

Those conversations are so valuable.

That's a hundred percent where the learning happens.

Thank you so much.

This has really peaked my interest.

Well, first off I have to go and check out all

your rates.

I have to just say,

but really great information.

I appreciate so much you coming on and sharing a lot

of what you know about Amazon handmade.

Thank you so much,

Dana. Thank you for having me Stuff.

Yes. I'll always continue to reinforce that the end goal should

be for you to have your own website,

but as you're starting or as a channel,

in addition to your website,

Amazon handmade might be just the thing while it's still summer

traditionally, a slow season.

And particularly this year with the craft shows and festivals canceled,

I'm thinking this might be a good opportunity to gear up

for the holidays by taking some time to select a second

sales channel online.

Remember this is part two of a six part series.

We've now covered eBay and Amazon handmade up next week.

We're talking all things,

Shopify. This is my go to recommendation.

When you're ready to build your own website.

Remember I just said that this should be your ultimate goal,

right? Your own website.

Make sure to subscribe to the show.

If you haven't already,

that allows the next episode to automatically be downloaded,

ready and waiting for you.

First thing next Monday morning,

did you know that if you're not subscribed,

sometimes it takes hours for the episode to become available to

you, but not when you subscribe.

So take a moment and go do that now.

Okay. Shopify next week.

And until then a reminder that you can join us over

in the breeze for a live Q and A's about any

of your business questions.

I look forward to seeing you again next week,

be safe,

be well and bye for now.

I want to make sure you're familiar with my free Facebook

group called gift is breeze.

It's a place where we all gather and our community to

support each other.

Got a really fun post in there.

That's my favorite of the week.

I have to say where I invite all of you to

share what you're doing to show pictures of your product,

to show what you're working on for the week to get

reaction from other people and just for fun,

because we all get to see the wonderful products that everybody

in the community is making my favorite post every single week,

without doubt.

Wait, what,

aren't you part of the group already,

if not make sure to jump over to Facebook and search

for the group gift biz breeze don't delay.