292 – The MOST Important Email Marketing Best Practice – It’s Not What You Think! with Gabriella Rapone of Email Maverick

Gift biz unwrapped episode 292.

It's the most undervalued marketing channels out there with the biggest

return Attention gifters bakers,

crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.

Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.

Now you are in the right place.

This is gift to biz unwrapped,

helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.

Join us for an episode,

packed full of invaluable guidance,

resources, and the support you need to grow.

Your gift biz here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue moon Heights.

Hi there.

Welcome to this.

This week's show.

It is going to challenge everything you think you know about

email marketing.

No, I mean seriously,

but before we get into that,

I want to update you on what's going on in my

private community gift biz breeze each year at this time where

you run posts,

highlighting your holiday products that are available for purchase so we

can support each other.

As we tackle our individual gift lists based on the interactions

and requests I've seen in this group,

we're taking this a step further with the introduction of the

buzz book.

The buzz book is a compilation of the small handmade business

owners in the group and provides a way for you to

support each other.

You can do this by purchasing from each other of course,

but it goes deeper than that.

This is a way to connect with people who make a

product similar to yours.

So you can discuss the nuances of your industry.

It's a way to easily find and get in touch with

fellow Breezers in your local area to get together for coffee

or even establish more formal face-to-face networking type meetings.

It's also a way to create collaborations.

I've seen local brick and mortar shops reached out to regional

makers to display their products in store,

helping increase visibility during this very challenging time.

I've also watched Breezers get together and do virtual shopping shows,

offering different,

but compatible products.

This allows you to get exposure with other people's audiences and

let's face it.

This going live thing is a lot easier when you do

it with someone else,

the things we can do through our connections together is far

greater than what we can achieve on our own.

The buzz book facilitates that,

and it's totally free for more details and to learn how

you can be listed.

Join the gift biz breeze,

Facebook group,

all the details.

Along with a video,

talking more about the program are right there,

separated as a special unit for easy access,

the first edition already out.

So you can take advantage of connections right away.

Okay. Buckle your seatbelts because today's show is longer than normal.

Gabby was providing so much information.

I didn't want to stop her.

You know,

I've been in business for a long time and to learn

completely brand new things is so exciting.

I edited down as much as I possibly could.

So grab a beverage and more importantly,

set up to take some notes because you're definitely going to

want to,

and I'm preparing you now.

There will be a test at the end.

You probably think I'm kidding Today.

It is my pleasure to introduce you to Gabby repoed of

email, Maverick,

Gabby has worked every angle of email marketing,

seen the high price of not knowing and the struggle that

comes with it.

So she works to free us from the struggles.

Gabby has worked at an email service provider,

owned an email service provider and ran an email agency for

10 years.

Consulting for brands like as seen on TV United,

online and classmates,

based on all of this experience,

she's seen that solving problems with simple solutions is how to

optimize email for profit.

She's an expert at engagement,

open and click rates and delivery to the inbox.

Email Maverick was created because Gabby is convinced you're sitting on

a goldmine.

You just don't realize it.

Oh my gosh.

If that hasn't peaked the curiosity of all my listeners,

I don't know.

What would Gabby welcome to the gift is on rep's podcast.

Thank you so much.

So it's really great to be here.

I have to tell you that when I was reading what

you had submitted for the intro,

I was smiling because I'm like our listeners are going to

get so much out of this.

I want to start off in our traditional way.

And that is by having you share with us a little

bit about yourself through a motivational candle.

So if you were to create a candle by color unquote,

that would really resonate with you,

what would it look like?

That's a great question.

In terms of color,

definitely. I would have a combination of like blue and pink,

something like a Royal blue and paying when it comes to

the messaging.

One of the things I say all the time,

especially to clients and students is your biggest weakness is your

greatest strength.

And remember that.

And what does that mean?

Basically what that means is especially with email.

So this is why I use it for a lot of

my clients,

because a lot of them,

they think email's a weakness for them.

They're so good in other areas.

Then when they get the email,

they were like,

well, it's a weakness.

Well, no,

it's not your weakness.

It's one of your greatest strengths that once you learn how

to use it,

it will help you actually build your greatest assets.

So you don't have to always rely on tools and to

actually get your message out there and actually profit from it.

And that's why you also reference it as your goldmine,

you're sitting on something so valuable and you don't even know,

Oh, absolutely.

Oh yeah.

Most people don't once I show them even people that are

doing great now,

even people that are making 50 or even a hundred thousand

dollars, or even people that are making a million dollars a

month, some of my clients,

the enterprise clients,

just for them to be able to notice that they can

double that without actually spending more money and actually doing less.

It's incredible.

It truly is a gold mine.

I think People hear it.

They just don't necessarily believe that it is true.

Well, like I tell a lot of people,

cause again,

there's a lot of people out there that will say,

well, email is dead.

It doesn't work.

And like I tell people all the time,

just because you're not able to do something doesn't mean that

it doesn't work.

It's just because you can't shoot like Michael Jordan doesn't mean

that it's not possible.

It is definitely possible.

So this is why I always tell people your greatest weakness

really is your biggest strength because you believe you're weak.

You're not weak.

This is actually one of your greatest strengths uncapitalized opportunity.

Oh, absolutely.

It's untapped.

It's your best assets.

I mean,

it's one thing that I always like to tell people or

one way that I always like to describe email marketing,

because it really is like a game of chess.

The online world is like a game of chess where yes,

social media is King.

We all know it's King.

That's where you gather your leads.

That's where people see your content.

But just like in chess,

the queen protects her King.

And that's what email is.

Email is a queen of protects that valuable leads and actually

helps you grow this asset because it's the only assets.

I mean,

email is the only thing that even if you have no

business, so you have no product,

you can still make money with it being an affiliates,

promoting other people's products.

So this is why it's so untapped where it's like,

if you have a business it's even better.

If you have a business,

you're building your assets.

But even if you don't have a business and you don't

have any products,

you can still build that asset.

You can still build an amazing database of subscribers and still

market to them.

It's the work of product and services and still able to

generate revenue that way.

So this is why it's email is it's the most undervalued.

I have to say,

undervalued marketing channels out there with the biggest return.

Well, and it is a true asset to your business.

Few words,

To sell your business down the line.

One of the things they're going to ask you,

they're not going to ask you as much about your social

media followers because you don't own them,

but they are going to ask you about your customer lists,

prospects and customers.

Oh, absolutely huge asset for your business.

So before we get too far down the road here,

take me back into your entrance,

into email,

being your focus.

I'm the youngest of four immigrant parents.

And when you're the youngest of four and everyone has grown

up and you're basically almost the forgotten child,

you've learned basically that the best way to get what you

want is to number one,

how things work and learn how people work.

And I was always fascinated with trying to understand,

like, what is it that made people tick?

Like, what is it that made people choose something.

We made them decide something.

And I was always fascinated with dots,

which basically led me towards marketing.

Cause I was always fascinated with that and also figuring out

what do I do?

Do I become a psychologist?

I'm like,

yeah, but I don't want to spend the next 15 years

trying to get a degree.

And on top of that too,

I was like,

I like to make money and let's face it psychology.

You're not going to be making as much money.

So I was like,

well, what's the next best thing.

And of course it's marketing,

marketing is pretty much 98%,

all psychology.

Then of course there's the economic side of it.

So that's what basically led me into marketing.

Now I kind of fell into the ESP kind of like

in a weird way,

like a lot of things,

I'll try to go for a marketing job.

Couldn't get the marketing job,

ended up taking a job at an email service provider.

That's basically where I started my focus in terms of really,

really focused more on the marketing aspect.

Because with email,

like people don't realize this with email,

but email is attached to everything.

When you buy something,

when you purchase something,

there is a record of everything that is attached to your

email address.

And on top of that too,

unlike social media,

you can't actually tell who's engaging with what you get numbers

based on engagement,

but you have no face of who's actually doing what,

unless someone's actually commenting on your stuff that you can actually

see. But with email,

there's this unbelievable profile that you can build because you can

see everything that people engage with.

You can see what people buy.

You can see what people are interested in.

You can see what people value and you can really tap

all into that.

And that's always,

what's really,

really fascinated me because yes,

at the end of the day,

people want to sell products.

And for me,

I always look at that as a by-product because I don't

work on the sales side email for us.

What we do,

we always teach people is really understanding your users.

It's like anything else you really,

really want to maximize profits.

You have to understand your audience.

You have to understand your people.

They're not all the same.

They're going to have to have different levels are coming in

at different times.

So it's important to understand where these people are and what

the value is And how they got to you.

I'd say,

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. Because they all come to you in a different way.

Like some people I'm thinking for our audience,

some people will come because they dropped their name in your

bucket at a craft show,

physical show.

Some people came because they signed up because they wanted something

that you're offering online,

whether it was a discount or a freebie of some sort

or whatever.

And some people came because their customers,

I love the fact that you're already talking about dividing the

audience. I wanted to make that comment for people who are

listening here just to further clarify in their mind what you're

talking about.

So this all came to light to you when you were

working at an email service provider,

Correct? Yeah.

When I was working on email service providers,

like, I didn't know anything.

Cause it was very,

very technical back in the day.

It's not like it now where it's kind of turnkey.

Cause that's what you see on the front ends.

But that's where I basically fell into it.

Cause I was like,

well wait a minute.

I can see everything.

And from there,

what I loved most was the fact that,

and I'm going to use the wrong word.

I hate using this word manipulation because basically what you're able

to do once you're able to understand your audience is you're

able to basically,

I don't want to say manipulate once again,

but you're able to basically directed them to a certain action.

And that's the part that I fell in love with because

it was like,

wow, okay.

So now that we understand the user,

we can create these actions,

which again,

help to build that better assets.

Because at the end of the day,

what most people don't realize.

If you're not hitting the inbox,

people don't see your mess.

Let's get into that in a minute.

But I think you hesitate on that word.

You're the experts or you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong.

But what you're doing is you're making sure that you're delivering

information to different sets of people based on how they found

you, what would be the next appropriate step in them,

getting to know you eventually potentially selling,

offering them what you sell,

et cetera,

or in the history of how they've been interacting with emails.

So you're actually giving a result to the end user,

the person who's going to open the email that's the most

appropriate for them,

correct? Yes.

So it's more kind of like a conditioning,

but at the same time,

it's giving us more information too,

because one thing,

yes, you had mentioned where people are coming from and that's

important, but we actually go a little step deeper,

a little step further because yes.

Okay. People may have found you at a craft fair or

whatever it is,

but the more important thing is people came to you for

a pain or desire.

And that's the critical thing is understanding.

Why did they put that card in the basket?

Why did they do that?

That's the critical thing.

Because once you're able to get that,

and this is what we call tapping the heart,

we call this tapping the heart because once you're able to

understand what makes people basically tick,

it makes them tick.

So this is why it's understanding that fundamental of what is

it that you're trying to do here?

What is that pain or desire that you're trying to relieve?

That's the reason why people sign up.

People don't sign up to an email list because they're like,

Oh, I just saw this and you just type in my

name here.

No, you know,

they're trying to get a result.

I'm not sure do most people in your audience,

do they do paid advertisement or is a mostly organic,

Not very many people do paid For.

So organic comes with its own challenges and we can kind

of discuss those challenges.

Cause we're Ganek and don't get me wrong.

I built organic Facebook pages up to like hundreds of millions

of reach.

So there's definitely benefit in organic.

Absolutely. But it's a very,

very important,

critical thing to actually qualify those organic people,

to make sure that you're not sitting on a list full

of freebie people.

Cause that's one of the big problems with organic and also

kind of low freebie discount type of lists that you're doing

like sweepstakes type of deals.

It's a big issue where you're building this huge list.

But again,

it's not about the size of the list.

It's about the quality of the list and whether or not

people buy at the end of the day.

Cause that's all that's important.

So let me just Say like the way most of my

audience and I'm totally generalizing.

Obviously the way people are attracting sales are going out to

trade shows for the wholesale business,

going craft shows,

church bazaars,

that type of thing if they want to do direct to

consumer. So a lot of face-to-face things when we're able,

obviously we're still with the COVID situation,

but when we're able,

a lot of people do that,

people also have brick and mortar shops.

So they're relying on people walking in the store,

participating in local community events that drive visibility to their shops,

things like that.

When you get to the online perspective,

it's having a website up having sites on multiple platforms.

So maybe they have their own website,

but they also have an Etsy site.

Maybe if they're wholesale,

they're also selling through fair,

which is a wholesale medium for product that lots of retail

stores will access.

And then social media,

I'm still going to say the majority of people,

although there are definitely people running ads are trying to do

this organically and they're still,

I'm getting more and more people to be doing lives there,

which is helping get visibility.

But I'd say 90%,

if not higher are all organic.

It's what they've done now.

Should they be doing ads?

Maybe. Yes,

maybe no,

but just so we know how to direct the conversation,

I'm going to just generalize it for all our listeners.

That those are the situations that we have.

Sure. There's absolutely nothing wrong with organic.

I actually love organic.

It's a slight modification we'll sand strategy so that you can

understand because at the end of the day,

the most important thing is that it's just understanding how the

machine works.

That's the most important thing is right now,

there's a big misconception about how the actual email machine works.

And once people understand how that works,

it's like anything else it's like,

I don't know if you saw that when they did that,

but they can opener that viral video of how to properly

open up a can opener.

And everyone was kind of like blown away in terms of

like, wow,

this is how you properly do it.

I'm not sure if you saw that.

Oh, is it the one where like it's positioned,

it's supposed to be going like from the side instead of

the top or something like that.

Exactly. Yeah.

Okay. I'm just giving you an example like that,

but it's kind of like that kind of mindful.

It's like,

Oh wow.

You know,

you thought it was this way.

What? It was really another way.

So again,

it's just goes down to not understanding how things work.

This is why one of the focuses that we like to

do with the well Maverick is just,

again, most people already have the tools to master email.

The problem is,

is they're just close.

About 15 years of misguided information from the email service providers

of the world,

who again,

their only job is to provide a service,

which is just like your cable company provides cable to an

email service provider.

Their only job is to send that email.

That is it it's to knock on the door of Gmail

and Yahoo and say,

look, I have mail.

That is their only job now,

whether or not Gmail lets you in and say,

Oh, am I going to prioritize you inbox spam?

Or on the online ether somewhere,

then that's again,

something that is up to list owner to actually do.

This is why there's a lot of misconception in terms of

how does email work?

Because everyone always asks,

well, what ESP should I use?

Which one inbox is more,

how can I make more money?

Which GSP will do more for me.

So my questions.

So you have email providers,

like you just said,

like Gmail,

Yahoo, all of those.

And then you also have CRMs.

So what's the difference between the two.

And if I was using something like MailChimp,

who is my email service provider,

now I'm confused.

Okay. I'll take those questions.

One by one and email service provider is a MailChimp MailChimp,

a Weber Clavio.

So those are some popular ones.

A lot of people in my group have been using constant

contact. So that would be another one that they'll be familiar

with. Yeah.

So constant contact as well.

Even Salesforce is an ESP,

but they're also a CRM because they're huge because they actually

bought cheetah mail and things like that.

So a lot of these CRM started to actually acquire smaller

ESPs to actually start to add to their CRMs.

So some of them are a combination of the two guy

use, keep Bless you for using Keith,

by the way I call it leap.

Well, I only use it for another business that I had

started a while ago and I'm pretty entrenched.

And I know luckily what I'm doing and all of that,

but I also have Gmail accounts that go with my businesses,

which is how I mail things.

Okay. So that's different.

Okay. So I'm confused.

I'm going to let you go make some sense of all

of this for us.

I just gave you a whole bag of like Play-Doh can

you help us build something here?

Yeah, Yeah,

absolutely. Okay.

So number one,

to break this down really simple.

So you have your ESP,

which is your constant contact we'll use.

And then you have,

you said from Gmail,

let's just say to do your business.

So you have USP and you have Gmail.

Let's use two as examples,

both your ESP and your g-mail are both M T A's.

They are both mail transfer agents.

This is almost like how a Brandy,

how a Brandy is not a cognac,

but a cognac is a Brandy type of deal.

I don't know if I'm liking the symbolism already.

So this is really good.

So the ESP and the g-mail are both MTA.

They're both male transfer agents.

Okay. They both transfer male.

That is what they do.

But the difference between an ESP and a Gmail is a

g-mail limits you to how many emails you can send because

it's not built for mass emailing.

It's built for what is,

I think you could send out like max,

a thousand emails at this point from a Gmail,

something like,

I don't even know,

cause I'd never do it that way,

but you're lying.

So yes,

there's a lot of people that actually use there's softwares out

there. Things like Yesmail or things like that,

that you can send email through Gmail,

but it's not an ESP because you're limited to how many

people you can send to.

Yeah. And this is a really good point.

I'm going back in my history of my businesses from a

long time ago,

but I remember,

and some people I think are still doing this.

So this is really interesting point to discuss.

And just clarify is if I were to pull up my

Gmail and then I'm going to send to your saying,

it's a hundred.

So let's go with that a hundred people on your list

that you have imported into that two column,

or you've masked the two column by just your name.

And then you've put them at all in your blind carbon

copy and you've sent it out that way.

Would you kind of say that's the old way of sending

email that now doesn't produce good results at all?

Number one,

I want to say it's not a sustainable way.

I understand why people do it in terms of,

especially for business to business,

for business to business is very beneficial because again,

you can sort of kind of bypass spam filters a little

bit differently.

So it's a different strategy.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. So as opposed to,

if you're dealing with business,

the customer,

the first thing you always want to do is the problem

with sending from a Gmail is you're not building your reputation

with Gmail.

So you're not doing anything with that.

And on top of that to scale is going to be

very hard.

So let's just say,

okay, if now you built a list of 10,000

people just imagine you have to replicate a campaign 10 or

20 times.

It just doesn't make sense to do that.

There's a time and place for everything.

So the most important thing to understand with email is it's

just getting started.

You want the easiest thing to get started with.

You don't want to complicate things.

So going back to the difference between the ESP and Gmail,

those two,

the fact that they're both MTAs,

but with Gmail,

again, you're limited to how much you can send.

So whatever it is,

you're limited.

If your list is growing,

it's going to cause you more problems.

And on top of that too,

you're not building your reputation.

You don't want to sell this asset.

Let's just say two or three years down the road.

One of the main things that our people that are buying

with an email is not just the lists they're buying the

domain, they're buying the reputation.

Cause that's the whole thing is your ability to hit the

inbox. Again is not based on which tool you use.

It's not based on your email service provider.

You don't need any copywriting experience to be really good at

email, but you do need to have a great email reputation

like anything else.

Okay. So this is really interesting.

And so your email reputation is built,

not from your Gmail,

but from your email service provider.

Well, yeah.

Well, just think about when you send from your Gmail now,

depending now,

again, I don't know all the systems out there,

I'm sure there's a lot of systems out there that allow

you to kind of,

I call it hijacking Gmail.

Cause that's what you're doing in all honesty.

It's kind of a gray headed area to actually be doing

nuts. It's not black hat,

but it's very,

very gray hats because of just the way you're sort of

connecting with Gmail and so on and so forth.

So that's the thing.

So just thinking about it,

when you're sending from Gmail,

you're sending from Gmail's domain.

When you send from key Infusionsoft,

you're sending from your domain,

you're building your domain,

sending reputation,

your business domain.

Yes, exactly.

So if you're sending,

if you're abc.com,

obviously when you set up your sending domain from your ESP,

you to set it so that it's your business domain or

something similar to it,

whatever it is you decide to build on it because whenever

you sell it,

that's the domain.

That's going to be attached to it as opposed to this

is why one of the things I always tell people is

when you're picking an ESP,

ESP is like picking a partner.

It's like having a relationship.

You pick the wrong partner,

I'll make your life miserable.

You pick the right one,

you live a happy life.

So I'm worried that we're also confusing how our listeners here

too. So let's take it from the top.

Someone has nothing.

They have an personal account.

That's a Gmail account.

marySmith@gmail.com. It's just a personal free Gmail account.

Now they've started their business and they want to set things

up correctly.

Where do they go from here?

Let's take it from the top right after a word from

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Okay. So first thing they want to do is purchase the

domain purchase.

So if it's Mary Smith candles@gmail.com,

then she can get Mary Smith candles,

email.com. She can register that at a GoDaddy,

whatever to register FX domains,

even Google you purchase that domain can purchase that domain.

Then you would go to whichever ESP you're most comfortable to

start with.

Because again,

this is not about finding mr.

Right? You're not looking to get married right now.

Right now.

You want something that's easy enough for you to get started?

So anything like a MailChimp,

constant contact,

Clavio, whatever it is,

whatever's easy to start with.

You get started at that.

ESP, you sign up,

you basically get authenticated.

So there's different authentications that you need to go through to

set up your SPF and this,

by the way,

when it comes to the technical part,

I know it's very easy for people to sort of get

a little afraid of it,

but do dogs get afraid of it?

Trust me,

once you go step by step,

it's very,

very easy.

Yeah. And it walks you through how to actually set it

up. It's very simple.

So you just go through the authentication of SPF records,

D Kim,

and if they have link authentications and so on and so

forth, basically whatever the ESP has for authentication that you can

use to authenticate your domain.

And that's basically it.

So now you're set up,

you're set up.

So now you send out your first email,

you are building Mary Smith candles,

email.com and not a Weber or constant contact.com.

You are building yours.

So if you decide tomorrow,

you don't like a Weber.

You say,

no problem.

You just move to another ESP and you don't have to

start all over again because your reputation is built already.

It's there to build assets and that's it.

Okay? That's not hard.

I got that.

All right.

So then you start collecting emails and we've talked about these

types of things before you have it on your website where

people can sign up,

you're at shows.

You may offer a raffle,

make sure that if you're doing raffles,

the prize is something that your customer would actually want to

buy from you.

Like you're not doing an Amazon gift card or something where

everyone's going to join.

And then you have a lot of just unrelated email addresses

on your list.

Exactly. Bunch of lurkers,

right? But so we get to the point where we've attracted

and now we have a little bit of a list.

What's your advice now?

So number one,

don't wait for a little list.

Cause that's what I hear a lot of people like they're

always waiting on like,

Oh, well can't till I get to a hundred until I

get whatever.

Don't do that.

Because again,

this is all about being able to set up a strategy,

set up a strategy,

see what actually works.

So one of the first things that,

again, always go back to what's the main goal of your

email. Yes.

We all know the main goal vehicles.

You want to make sales.

You want to grow that asset,

but the objective of email,

what is that?

Objective email is always to maintain that email reputation.

You always maintain that positive email rep.

That's the objective and the objective.

And now people are going to be like,

well, how do you get that email reputation?

How do you keep a good at email reputation?

Well, just like learning how to read and writes,

learn your ABCs.

You gotta learn your AB ease of email,

which is always be engaging.

So this is what always be engaging.

You always want to remember that this is why you don't

need any copywriting skills.

You just need to know to always be engaging,

which is mean get the open,

get the click,

always get the click.

And if you're lucky,

get the reply.

Now going back to your original question,

when you said,

well, you're at a trade show,

someone sees you,

you have a raffle.

Yes. Something that is tied to your business.

Which of course great idea you should be doing.

Most importantly,

if you see someone at a trade show,

if your number one objective is to build that email reputation

from the moment they sign up to the minute they open

your first email,

it's all about timing.

So this is why conditioning users is the most critical thing.

So it's not enough that someone just signs up because again,

they signed up well,

okay, well,

what happens when you sign up for something?

If you don't sign up for something,

you forget,

you know what happens?

Two weeks later,

you get an email you're like,

who is this person?

What is this?

You don't pay attention.

You delete,

you hit spam.

You do a bunch of stuff Important from the timing from

when they've signed up to when they received the first communication

from you,

Correct is critical.

It's key.

Again. It's all about timing.

It's all about building that rep.

And that's critical because more than likely,

if you spent too much time,

they're not going to,

well, they're not gonna respond.

They're not gonna remember,

right? They're not going to even take that first action.

No, they're not.

Or just think about it.

We know this in marketing or at least it's something that

you start to learn in marketing.

That timing is everything.

If someone's in front of you and you just sold them

on whatever it is,

you know that if you don't close the sale,

at that point,

it's going to be harder and harder to do next time

because you have to go through it every single time over

and over again.

This is why you got them.

The first time you're fulfilling this pain and desire for them.

Now the whole point is,

remember, it's all about maintaining that email reputation,

but not only that to build that assets,

it's all about the more you condition a user.

And it's one of those things where I kind of hate

making this correlation now,

but it is what it is,

but just look at conditioning.

I mean,

we all know the power of conditioning.

What it can do to people conditioning a user to go

back to their email,

because this is where you build your assets.

And it's also important to actually understand the objective of email.

So as I mentioned with email,

that the objective is never sales.

Cause that's what a lot of people are afraid of.

They're afraid to email because they're afraid of sales.

They're afraid of all.

How do I sell this?

How do I write this?

How do I do it?

And that's one of their biggest fears is that I don't

want to send too many emails.

I don't want to piss people off.

I don't want to do this.

Whenever it comes to email,

people bring a lot of their emotional baggage with them.

So this is why it's one of those things that you

just have to kind of set it aside.

I think it's also because we've had that happen to us.

We sign up for something and we either start getting emails

that are totally different than what we anticipated.

We were signing up for.

Or every single time we open it's Sally.

Yeah. It's from experience.

I mean,

we've all had that,

but I do want to ask you just for point of

clarification on conditioning,

when you say you're conditioning,

are you saying you're conditioning your customer to look for you

in email versus somewhere else?

Like social media or wherever.

And you're conditioning them that when they open an email,

there'll be something of value for them sitting inside.

Am I getting that right?

In terms of conditioning?

Yes, exactly.

That is essentially what it is,

is conditioning a user.

Because again,

you want to build that asset.

This is more on the ad side.

You see a lot of people that are pushing ads.

So not so much on the organic side,

on the paid outside,

you're going to see people that they'll do anything to get

the email and then they'll do anything to keep them down

to sales pipeline.

But it's like,

well, wait a minute,

guys, if you're looking to build an email list,

why would you keep them going through this sales pipeline?

And I understand because again,

they want to make the sale because they want to make

the return on investment.

Not realizing that they're sitting on a goldmine in the email,

that if they just directed the users back to the email

client, they'd be able to start to build that actual gold

mine and start to condition a user and actually start building

that engagement.

But a funnel is also all coming through that email provider.

Let's not confuse the funnel funnel was more on the paid

advertisement side.

Oh, okay.

If you went to a site's rates and you purchase a

t-shirt, people will have you do some sort of discount.

You see those bins away in,

or you get a discount,

you answering your email and then you just continue shopping online.

There's no directive.

Maybe you go back to your email client.

Maybe you don't.

The point is there's no direction.

It's just give.

And then that's it.

And So over on the email side,

when you have someone's email,

we talk about this all the time.

Gabby is this is something that you own,

you own their email,

and you've got to respect that because they've allowed you to

have it.

You know,

they've given you permission.

If you will,

to use their email and you need to treat that with

respect. Yes.

Then over on the email side,

what you're saying is take that respect and continue to provide

them value.

So they'll want to continue opening your emails.

Yeah. It's always about value,

but here's the thing about the value.

Okay? Because we hear this word a lot.

Oh, give value,

give value,

give value.

What does that mean?

Value is very particular because value is not about what you

have to bring to the table.

It's about again,

understanding your users.

It's about understanding your audience.

Once again,

it's all about understanding the heart.

What values do your users have?

It's not about value.

It's about the value to the reader,

to the subscriber.

It's not value.

It's failed them.

Yes. That's it?

Because we have this five point framework where,

because with a lot of times with students and client,

we go through emails.

How do you know if an email is good?

Like, how do you assess if it's any good?

How do you know if it's optimized?

So we have this five point basically framework where one of

the five points is ego versus benefits.

We've all seen this.

You read an email and you can sense the ego versus

benefit Me.

Show the award that we just got at X.

Exactly. Or look at what we have on discount.

All ego.

It's look at me,

look at me,

look at me,

don't get me wrong.

Those emails still get Results.

And that's the problem.

Is those emails still get Results.

They need to be balanced.

I think it can't be every single email or the entire

email. Maybe it's just a portion because something like,

if you won an award that shows credibility of the product.

Sure. But not all your messaging.

Shouldn't be Exactly.

This is why we have five points.

Like, listen,

you can't be a hundred percent benefit.

There's always a balance.

But if 80% of email,

we have a scoring system.

It's very simple.

You can tell if it's mostly ego,

mostly benefits.

And that's the deal is if it's mostly ego,

then already,

you're going to start to lose people.

Because again,

this isn't about you.

People are not opening up the emails to hear about what

you did yesterday.

No one cares about you,

right? And this is the big deal with friends because a

lot of people will try to emulate brands like LA,

look at Nike and look at this.

It's like,

listen, I'll tell you these guys,

the brands of the world are the first people to leave

millions of dollars on the table.

We're talking millions of dollars on the table.

They're the first people who make mistakes.

Don't model yourself.

After people don't look at whatever it's good to get inspiration.

The most important thing is to understand how the system worked

and what the objectives are.

When I started an email service provider,

I didn't know copywriting was until I got into the internet

marketing game probably about five years ago.

But close to 10 years,

I run an agency.

I never knew what copywriting was.

I was like,

I just stuck to my basics of what psychology taught me

in terms of conditioning,

understanding people and then getting them to engage because it doesn't

take much to get people to engage.

It comes down to taking that extra two minutes or that

extra 30 seconds to what is it that our people are

looking for and just provide that.

So What do you think about length of emails?

Does that matter?

Oh, a hundred percent.

I have a stake.

You can always go wrong with long.

Always, always go wrong with longer.

You want to keep it short?

Because again,

if the objective of email is to build that email reputation,

and if your objective is to always be engaging,

let me ask you this.

Would it make your life easier?

If I told you that in every single email you sent

that your only objective was to sell the click versus sell

the product.

Do you think your life would be easier?

There you go by saying Silva click.

It means getting the person who opened the email and then

whatever link there is in that email where you're directing them.

Maybe it's a link to a product,

whatever the link is going to.

That's the click sell the click Gabby.

If there was one piece of advice,

you have no experience because the only people that can tell

you right now sell you on copywriting or copywriters.

Those are the only people that are going to try to

sell you.

You well,

But I do like some of the fun wording and all

of that,

but it can't be long.

It needs to be fast.

I don't know if I'd say it gets old,

but I totally relate to what you're talking about.

Yeah. Again,

this comes into the five point framework that we have is

again, it's all about being able to sell that click it's

Cal versus milk.

And that's what we do.

So in an email,

when we reviewed,

this is why I always give a visual.

Are you giving away the cow?

Are you letting them taste the milk?

What are you doing?

If you're giving away the cow,

you're not giving them any reason to click,

sorry. Sometimes I get a little bit aggressive.

When I get into like my work mode,

I'm liking this.

Keep going permission.

Granted go.

But that's what it is.

So we have that five point framework.

You've referenced the five points a couple of times.

Are you willing to share them with us?

Absolutely. We call this the MP five.

It's the Maverick power five.

Number one.

When you're reviewing an email,

first thing you always want to look for is,

is it focused?

Are you talking about one idea,

but you'll notice a lot of times in emails,

people are talking about like 50 different things.

You have to be speaking about one idea.

And number two,

is that pain or desire of the email clearly demonstrated there

has to be a clear painter desire demonstrated number three.

Are there yeses?

Your users have to subscribers need to be saying yes in

their head while they're reading it,

you can ask an actual yes.

Question. Or they just need to be agreeing in their head

Or they can see themselves in what you're saying.

Sure. Yeah.

As long as it's yes.

Number four is Cal versus.

Now when you're reading an email,

are you giving away the cow?

Right? You're giving them everything in an email.

Are you just letting them taste the milk and last but

not least,

as I mentioned,

the Eagle versus benefit,

that's again another way.

So these five points will help you gauge,

okay. Is my email built for engagement now?

Because that's the objective.

The emails have to be built to actually engage,

to get people to click.

And this kind of ties in with your other question,

which is,

can you go along with email one way that you want

to test with that is basically testing different links to actually

see how far down the rabbit hole people will actually go.

But that's something that I usually work with people afterwards,

because it's first sending an email with one sentence,

show me that you can destroy your click-through rate just by

sending a one sentence email.

Cause that's the most important thing is once you know how

to get engagement with one sentence,

then you can flower it up a little bit.

Oh, absolutely.

But the whole point is less,

is more when it comes to email and there's a time

and place for longer emails,

by the way.

But as a rule of thumb,

it's always less is more understand emails place in the online

world. Okay?

It's not a sales page to make your life simple.

What do you need to do in an email?

I know what you need to do.

You need to sell a click,

sell the click.

That is it.

I see Mean going to very short paragraphs,

maybe one or two sentences for a paragraph versus the old

days of all this long information.

That's right on target.

And then I also hear that most people,

and I know I do this skim an email,

kind of want to know what this is about.

Why am I reading it?

And then if I'm not exactly sure,

I want to know more.

Then I'll go back and read it word for word.

That's what people don't realize.

It's a display medium.

We don't live in an ideal world where if you have

a thousand person list and you're using MailChimp,

it's like those thousand people are going to see your email.

Again, you have to work to get in front of them.

Gmail is not going to just say,

okay here,

no, you have to work to actually get in front of

them and even use your experience.

When you open up an email,

you see a long game.

Well it's I want to read this.

It's like,

no, you don't want to read this.

There's some people who love it.

And then other people who don't.

So this is why it's like,

listen, you cannot cater to every single one of your users.

You cannot do that.

So don't do some short and some long,

no, no you should do that.

No, no,

absolutely. Okay.

But what I'm saying is a good rule of thumb.

If you don't know what you're doing yet,

in terms of how long you can take your emails,

always stick to your basic framework,

email, which is selling that click to actually get the user

to wherever page you need to,

because that's the most important part is just getting the user

to that actual page.

But in terms of testing,

the actual length,

as I mentioned,

that's something that I kind of go a little bit more

detail into my course.

You don't want to overthink it.

Just keep it really simple in terms of sticking to why

people came to you like the painter desire.

Like again,

just selling that click.

If today you was looking to sell the cup from the

whole point is being able to sell the click to actually

get to the actual cup.

Maybe you have the five ways to reuse the old cups

or whatever it is.

Something that's simple,

whatever it is,

just something to get them the same way that you would

see an ad online.

Cause that's all email is,

email is a display medium.

You see something,

you go to it.

That is it.

We're going to test me with your MP4 focused means it

should be a single topic.

Single action that you're looking for.

Single idea like chapters of a book almost.

Yeah. Like a single thing.

Okay. Second is pain or desire.

What is the reason why the person is going to take

their precious time and look and go through it?

So it has to relate to something that they are needing

or solution that they would have correct?

Something that they value.

Yeah. Three.

Are they continually affirming what you're saying?

They see themselves in the wording.

They agree with your comments.

They're saying yes.

There's that,

that when people agree,

agree, agree.

They naturally go on to the next step.

And since we're trying to sell the click,

that kind of feels like mentally you're setting them up to

naturally go for the clay.

Exactly. Yes.

So that's The three,

the four is,

but hold back.

Don't tell them everything.

Cause there's no reason for them to click.

If you've given it all in the email,

there you go.

Yes. Okay.

So that's four and five.

Make sure that you're not focusing on yourself and how good

you are and how great your products are.

Even though we know they are,

you need to be focusing on what the reason is that

that's important to the reader.

Exactly. There you go.

Okay. Perfect.

This is Golden.

Thank you so much.

This is great information.

I do have a problem though.

Yes. My problem is what if my emails aren't being opened?

That's a good question.

Number one,

you need to understand why your emails are not being open.

We have to Lay the groundwork.

You're not going to get a hundred percent open rates.

That's not even realistic.

No. I mean the only time you'll get a hundred percent

open rates and let's just a username or password type of

deal where people have to get an account information.

That's the only time you get a hundred percent because people

need that email to actually log into something.

That's the only time would you A stake in the ground

as to what range is good?

Yes. It depends on two things.

Volume. Cause that's the one thing that people don't realize I'm

Gary is everyone always talks about these great open rates and

click through rates,

but no one ever looks at the numbers.

No one looks at the volume.

Oh, I'm getting to that.

I don't do wait.

I'm getting there.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. It's like you have this number porn that goes around,

especially in the e-com space.

Cause they're all about the number porn,

how much sales they're making,

not understanding profit and all that.

So it's important to actually understand that volume is very,

very important.

Niche is very,

very important as well.

Not as critical,

but the volume is really,

really going to be critical and the type of traffic.

So if someone,

I had a hundred people on their email list and they

have 70 people opening because it's a lot of friends and

family right now,

70% sounds great.

But someone then who has thousand and 70 people open,

if I'm doing my numbers,

right? That's 7% correct?

Yep. It's still the same raw number of people opening,

but it's against a bigger number.

And so the 7% against the thousand List doesn't feel as

great. How does that Play out into what you're saying with

volume? And that's the whole point is to understand the actual

volume. The other thing too here is you'd mentioned open rates.

A lot of them will come to me because they're like,

Oh my open rates start to decrease the law.

And one of the other questions I ask them is what

is your click through rate?

And then they'll go blank.

I don't know.

My click through rate is,

Well, maybe they didn't even have any links in the email

to start With it's possible.

But then again,

there's a problem.

Basically. The reason why I'm saying that is because it just

goes to show the level of understanding about email.

Again, if you don't understand,

it's like going to Vegas with a million dollars going to

the crop's table or to blackjack,

but not knowing how to play.

Right. And you're just like,

Hmm, here's money.

You just throwing,

you know,

maybe you win some,

maybe you don't.

But the point is you don't and maybe you lose Vegas.

He totally broke afterwards.

And it's cause you don't understand how to actually play the

game. Going back to the actual volume itself,

they do have a guideline in terms of if any lists

are under 10,000,

like when you're dealing with the list of a hundred,

like that's obviously your numbers are going to pick anything under

10,000. It's typically a rule of,

you can usually get open rates.

An ideal open rate that you want to be aiming for

is about 25 to about 35%.

That would be ideal.

But the other thing too is you always want to be

looking at your click through rates.

So your click through rates,

if anything,

under a 10,000

people, your click through rates,

you want to be aiming for anywhere from between three to

about 10%,

because the clicks is where everything is kind of like a

catch 22,

especially with opening your emails.

It's like,

well, how do you get people to click if no one's

opening and then vice versa.

But that's the most important thing is to really understand that

your focus always has to be on selling that click and

going back to the open rates,

the open rates is once you understand how everything works,

it's just a matter of understanding.

Okay. Is it a deliverability issue?

Because it could be most of the time if you're not

getting the opens as you want.

It's because you have a deliverability issue Before we go there.

Do you have a question for you?

I think a lot of people know how to see their

open rates.

You know,

it's something that all service providers are showing.

How do you see your click through rate?

Well, most email service providers show with click-through rates.

The only thing is you need to make sure,

cause I believe that I'm not mistaken and don't quote me

on this because I want to see what's constant contact,

but it was one of the big ESPs that used to,

instead of showing click-through rates,

they show you click to open rates,

which is so deceptive and so wrong.

It's so mislead,

clicking To open is just opening your email,

reading the email.

Yeah. It's clicked open,

but it's very deceiving because a click through rates,

which is the proper metric is that is based on the

amount that you sent versus click to open rates,

which is the click to the amount of people that actually

opened your email.

Oh yeah.

Which is very deceptive.

So then you will be like,

wow, I got this amazing click through rates,

80% open rate.

I got a 35% click-through rate.

And it's like,

Hmm. Yeah,

you should check that.

See if it's click through rate or click the open rates

because email service providers,

like I said,

their job is to provide a service,

which is to send emails.

So the more you send,

the more you make,

they don't care.

If you make money,

if you have deliverability issues,

they don't care.

We need to be looking at our clean open rates and

then also the clicks.

So there's that.

But now let's get into this whole deliverability issue.

Oh, this makes me sick to my stomach.

Why does it make you sick?

Because I feel there are a lot of emails that we

send and I'll tell you why in a second,

that people don't even have a chance to see because they're

landing in the promotion folder of Gmail or the spam folder.

And the reason I say that is two reasons.

Number one,

I'll have people saying I didn't get it.

I didn't get it.

I was actually looking for this email and I never found

it. Then we have to go to your borough,

shuffle to go to like all that.

And then the other reason is I'll go to my own

promotion folder and so many emails that I really want that

I have to move over into my primary folder.

And then two weeks later,

they're back into the promotion folder.

Can you tell him a little irritated about it?

Definitely. But you also said something very important at the same

time is your main frustration.

Okay. Obviously for them ending up their promo tab and spam,

right? If they're not going to be interested in an opening,

I want to know that because I want to talk to

you afterwards.

Maybe our final thing will be cleaning your list,

but that's okay because people might sign up because they want

to download that I've given them and the value came in

the download,

but you know what,

right now they don't want my other stuff.

They don't want to know about the podcast.

They're not little really looking at starting a business.

But as long as I know that they've seen it and

had a choice and I'm feeling like I don't have control

over actually being able to show them for them to be

able to say yes or no.

That's where my frustration is.

Okay. Those are all very valid.

Well, one thing you always want to avoid doing,

which is how to say that it's a bad thing.

Cause the one thing that I heard you saying is you

really, really want to make sure that people see your emails.

And that,

that is a critical thing.

Obviously the whole point is you want people to see your

email, not all your emails are going to get in front

of everyone all the time.

Okay? It's a numbers game.

It's the way it is.

This is why it's important to understand.

Number one,

if it really is a deliverability issue,

you had mentioned something really,

really critical,

which is the promo tab.

And that's thing that people always ask is,

well, the promo title.

What about that?

trust me.

I was not happy for two weeks.

I'm not going to lie to you.

We struggled.

But two weeks afterwards,

we were back to business as usual,

the promo tab.

Okay. So Jamie and let's try to kill.

They hate email.

They have tried to kill it.

Not once they tried to kill it with wave.

I'm not sure if you remember wave,

they came out with wave about 15 years ago to kill

email. It didn't work.

And then they tried the promo tab to kill it.

Once again,

it didn't work because what happens when you are unable to

find your favorite email,

where do you,

I go to the promo tab.

Exactly. But I don't go there every day.

And so there's things that go down the list that I

might've wanted to see,

but I'll never have a chance to see it.

And I guarantee you,

most of our listeners,

customers will never even think of ever going in that promo

time. And there's a lot of assumptions about the promo tab,

the promo tab.

You have to look at it this way.

It's still the inbox people have at this point.

Been conditioned that if they don't find it in the promo,

if they don't find it in their primary,

they're going to go to promo.

They even did a study on this.

Trust me,

this is something that we monitor on a daily basis.

We monitor,

I don't worry about myself,

going to promo my stuff goes into promo all the time.

I don't care because it's still inbox my opens and my

click-through rates where they might suffer a little bit in terms

of okay.

If my normal open rate was 25%,

okay. Maybe went down to a 23%,

but it's not major.

It's not major enough to be like,

Oh, this is a major problem.

What is a major problem is deliverability because I've had a

few clients with Infusionsoft.

The deliverability is definitely an issue.

Stab me in the heart.

Gabby. I'm just being realistic in terms of like I've dealt

with these guys.

So define deliverability.

Well, deliverability is just one definition.

You have delivery,

which you hear a lot of ESPs talking about.

They're like,

Oh, we have nine 90% delivery.

Which means you send an email and actually gets to where

it's supposed to go.

Once again,

the only job the email service provider has,

their only job is that if you have a thousand person

email list and all those thousand people are valid and those

thousand people get delivered.

Okay. But delivery does not mean deliverability.

So this is why they manipulate you into thinking that 99%

means 99% of people will see your emails.

No, that's not true.

Deliverability is ending up in inbox.

That's deliverability.

It's your inbox placement.

So it's like putting an envelope in a mailbox and having

someone open it on the other end,

actually knowing that someone opened it,

knowing that someone opened it.

Okay. Yes.

So once again,

the ESP,

just imagine if you're going to use the envelope,

the ESP is the mailman.

That's all he is.

So if you're using the envelope as receiving mail,

the ESP would be the mailman who would basically sending the

actual email that would be delivering the envelope,

Delivering it in into your mailbox at Home.

Exactly. But once again,

you have to actually see it.

What happens if you open up your mailbox and you have

a bunch of junk stuff in there,

you go through it.

Maybe you throw some out,

maybe you keep some it and so on and so forth.

It's just important to actually understand the difference in terms of

terminology delivery,

just beans it's being actually delivered deliverability is the actual bowl.

The person actually seeing the email and actually being delivered into

the inbox And still having the decision to be made to

open it or not.

Oh yeah.

You still have to open or not.

Deliverability is before actually opening.

So it's deliver deliverability open click,

correct? Yes.

And then of course,

if you want to avoid deliverability issues,

because again,

in email you always have an easy,

or you have a hard way.

I remember I came from the hard way of email,

meaning I came from the affiliate world.

Then this is why I know you're sitting on a gold

mine because I was the person who Alicia said,

you had an email list,

thriving business,

but you have an email list,

but you don't know what you're doing.

So I would take your email list and I would monetize

it for you.

That is what I did for over 10 years.

I'm monetize other people's email lists.

That's how I got all that experience.

That's how I got the experience of the ESP.

Cause that's what I was doing at the email service provider

of clients,

right? I was helping them with their strategies and how to

email and so on and so forth.

So this is why I know you're sitting on a gold

mine is that I've managed this for thousands of people back

in the day.

And the one thing you don't want to ever do,

I wouldn't say don't want to do it,

but you want to avoid giving away your email list to

other people to be able to manage.

You don't want to give it to an agency because at

the end of the day,

anytime you let someone else touch your lists,

you're subjecting that list to a possibility of again,

of being stolen of anything.

Remember this is your data.

This is your people don't want to just keep it away.

Well, first off,

they're trusting you when they give you their email address.

That's number one.

Yeah. And secondly,

long, hard earned email addresses.

It's a big asset.

Getting back to the deliverability.

Yes. It varies based on your service provider.

It sounds like you're saying No.

We remember everything always goes back to your email reputation.

Let me break it down this way.

If you want your emails to be seen,

it's all about hitting the inbox,

which is deliverability and deliverability is based not on your email

service provider,

not on the tools that you can use.

Put on your email reputation.

How do you keep your email reputation high,

always be engaging.

You get the open,

you get the click.

And if you're lucky,

you get the reply and what's your objective for every single

email is to keep that engagement rate high.

How do you do it?

Sell the click.

If you have a good reputation for deliverability,

then new emails that are going to go with your next

email that you're sending have a higher probability of landing in

the inbox because your deliverability reputation is high.

Correct. And the other thing too,

that I should mention is your email reputation.

Like anything else changes every time you send an email.

So this is why there's no like Senator forget it.

This is why there's no perfect DSPs.

Because every time you send an email,

your reputation changes.

So this is why just as a good guideline,

this is why you always want to sell the click.

If you want to avoid deliverability and you may not ever

be able to avoid a hundred percent because even I even

at some point,

like I'm going to suffer a deliverability issue,

but I know exactly how to get out for me.

It's not an issue I spent 10 years going in and

out of spam folders,

not a problem.

So your deliverability is poor.

Yes. And to make it better,

you have to increase your reputation and to increase your reputation.

You need to have people taking action opening and selling the

click, but how can you get them to even see it,

to increase your reputation?

If your deliverability is already low,

the catch 22,

right? There is,

I don't mean for you to give away all the goodness,

but I'm just trying to understand how it all works.

Yeah. It's your typical catch 20.

So it's like we use you,

you're stuck in the spam folder.

How do you get out?

You don't need to pay a great copywriter for email.

What you need is patience.

That is what you need as patients.

When it comes to resolving deliverability issues,

it just comes down to understanding the strategy that you need

to do in order to get out.

Which is,

once again,

it's just focusing on engagement and it's not about quantity.

So a lot of people think,

well, you know,

I have this list of whatever it is,

10,000 people.

It's not a matter of sending to all this 10,000

people. That's not what it's a matter about the Gmails and

the yahoos of the world.

Remember all of these people,

the GMLs the yahoos,

the AOL,

they don't speak to one another,

depending on your email list,

makeup, depending also on your deliverability issues,

you may only be maybe not delivering to Gmail,

but your other ones may be doing perfectly well.

That's the deal is it's a matter of just focusing on

the engagement,

revising the strategy,

to just focus on the active people,

the actual people that are engaging,

all the Gmails of the world,

want to see that?

Yeah. People want to receive the emails.

One of the reasons why we don't offer deliverability services,

we do not do that.

And you'll see a lot of people online.

If you go to whatever Upwork or whatever,

you're going to find people that will solve deliverability for you.

Especially if you're suffering from deliverability,

it, depending on how bad it is,

you can't solve it in a one-shot.

This is why we don't do it.

So you can come to me.

You're suffering deliverability issue.

I solve it for you.

But guess what?

If you don't fix your bad habits,

it's just going to keep happening.

This is why I wrote the book because I was like,

listen, no one can solve your deliverability.

Unless it is very something specific.

Like, okay,

there was a link that was being flagged or whatever we

change it.

Nope. Sending practices are great.

You're doing everything.

But it was just a link that was getting flagged,

whatever it is.

So in that case,

yes, deliverability can be solved.

But nine out of 10 cases,

when people come to me for deliverability issues,

because they don't understand email,

they're listening to the Google.

As you listened to the ESPs of the world,

listen, you can solve deliverability.

Deliverability can literally we've solved it in minutes.

Okay? It's a matter of understanding what the problem is and

how to fix it.

It is possible if your emails have been landing the spam

folder, when you start fixing things,

those emails to those same people who have already been going

to the spam folder at some point,

may miraculously show up in the inbox,

if you have patients,

correct. Absolutely.

They will go back into the inbox a hundred percent.

It's just a matter of when is the end.

It's just a matter of just patients and P five.

That's the guideline that we use in terms of just understanding

the framework of an email.

Anyone can do this and you can even do this.

Now the best practice is looking at other people's mistakes.

So just go through your emails,

go through your spam folder,

go through your inbox.

And you can definitely start to see even people that are

whatever it is.

Even emails that you like.

You could be like,

Hmm. This email could be a lot better because at the

end of the day,

if a hundred people clicking on your email and you have

a, whatever it is,

and once you see a 2% conversion rate,

what happens when you think you sent 300 people now with

that same conversion rates,

300 clicks,

what do you think now is going to happen to your

revenue, but that same conversion rates.

So we can all learn just by going into our spam

folder and seeing who's there and then looking and trying to

figure out why that is and not doing that.

Yeah. It's not even figuring out the why going through the

MP five,

you can see it.

They're not engaging.

They don't understand their users.

They don't understand how email works because a lot of them

will just pick an email service while they pick Clavio Clavio

in boxes.

That's what everyone talks about.

Take MailChimp,

right? And they just don't go any further than that.

And then they'll send out their first couple of emails and

they'll be like,

Oh wow,

we can great open rates,

great click-through rates.

Then a couple of days later,

they'll be like,

Oh, our open rates are down.

I guess email doesn't work.

Email sucks.

Well, you know what?

I got other things to do.

And then they'll go focus on something else.

People will say that about Facebook ads and everything,

you know,

you try it,

it doesn't work for you.

It's always easy to blame what you're using versus that maybe

you're not using it properly,

which I believe you talked about it in the very beginning.

So really quickly,

I'm looking at the time.

I've kept you so long,

but I am loving this because I'm hearing things I've never

heard before.

Credibly, interesting to me,

just really quickly touch on cleaning your lips.

Best email hygiene is one of those.

I always like to explain it almost like,

you know,

imagine you get your dream house right at the beach.

If you're gonna get a dream house close to the beach

and chances are,

you probably get some flood insurance just in case you want

to protect that beautiful dream house.

I'd be buying a boat.

But go ahead.

Did do something to protect that dream.

Listen, you're going to spend all this money on a lead

and we're talking more on the paid side.

The organic,

obviously you're not,

but on the paid side,

it's like,

you just paid whatever it is.

Three, three,

$4 for leads.

One penny to protect that lead.

Because again,

your email reputation is being built where you ever sent that

first email.

So even before he ever press send your email reputation,

the GMLs of the world are already saying Mary's candles.

I don't know if she's going to be any good,

because again,

the genius in the world,

they don't care if people signed up to Mary's candles because

they love Mary's cat.

They don't care.

GML is just a machine.

There's no people that look at your email.

It's a machine that looks at your email.

Doesn't care.

It only knows one thing.

Did this person engaged?

Yes or no.

Is this person valid?

Yes or no?

Okay. This is why going to hygiene.

The hygiene aspect.

It is really critical.

And the reason why I say your reputation is being built

beforehand is because even before you send that email,

the Gmail.

So the world already know if that email exists or not

and their logic to them.

Because again,

it's not a person it's a computer logic.

Remember you're not dealing with people,

logic. You're dealing computer logic.

Computer logic says,

well, if this email address is incorrect,

that means Mary Kendall's harvested this email.

She's a spammer.

That's their logic.

So this is why I always tell people,

listen, just the extra penny,

take that extra penny.

Make sure that email is valid because again,

people make mistakes.

How many times does your phone?

Auto-correct how many times you have like bat fingers at a

point that slips whatever it happens.

So you're talking then about like hard bounces and things like

that. That happened,

correct? That's a hard balance.

That's part of hygiene.

You have two folds of hygiene.

You have a hygiene before you send,

and then you have hygiene afterwards,

which is when you'd know if they bounced.

Correct. But the whole point is you want to avoid doing

that because if you send an email,

but it's not valid to Gmail,

like I said,

you're not dealing with people,

logic. You're dealing with your logic To run your list through.

Are there checkers or something that you run your list through

to make sure that they're all valid?

Oh, absolutely.

Any other services out there?

Yes. You got to tell us,

Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

There's a lot of things here I take for granted.

As I mentioned,

I've been doing it for such a long time,

but yes,

hygiene. Yes.

There are companies out there.

We recommend X verify,

verify as I would never recommend anyone.

That number one,

I never used myself.