014 – The Trick to Asking for Referrals by Kevin Jordan of Redpoint Marketing Consultants

Gift biz unwrapped episode 14.

Hi, this is John Lee Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,

and you're listening to the gift of biz unwrapped,

and now it's time to light it up.

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Sue Monheit.

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And now onto the show today,

I am thrilled to be joined by Kevin Jordan.

Kevin is the owner of RedPoint marketing consultants and the host

of the small business marketing minute show that shows a video

and audio podcast that teaches simple,

affordable and practical marketing methods to small business owners.

He's also a member of the duct tape marketing consultant network.

And his recently co-authored a book titled the small business owner's

guide to local lead generation.

And that book is just out for,

I think,

just a couple of weeks as of this recording,

the book teaches local business owners,

how to successfully compete with much larger companies.

And if any of you have listened to the very first

episode we did 0 0 0.

When I talk about what this podcast is all about,

I talk a lot about the fact that if we are

smaller businesses,

we're leaner,

meaner, we can react so much faster.

And that's exactly what Kevin talks about in this book.

Welcome to the show.

Kevin, happy to be here soon.

I am thrilled that we connected because again,

I think what you are talking about and presenting in this

book is exactly what we want to talk about today.

So perfect timing,

Perfect timing for me to,

is There anything that we should add to your intro before

we get started?

Well, we're going to jump right in and as our listeners

know, we like to align the conversation around the life of

a motivational candle.

The light shines on you,

Kevin, while you share your stories and experiences.

So shall we light it up?

Absolutely. Help us envision what your candle looks like.

What color is it?

I think I'm going to go with old gold to that's

one of the colors of my Alma mater Purdue university.

And it's actually a very specific type of goal.

That's called old gold.

So that that's Kendall collar right there.

Okay. And old gold is kind of like an antique ish

versus a metallic,

I would guess.

Right, right.

Got it.

And what is the quote that would be on that candle?

It says things may come to those who wait,

but only the things left by those who hustle that's from

Abraham Lincoln.

How does that resonate with you?

What does that mean to you in your life?

Get started?

And that's actually the quote that we used in the last

chapter of the book,

which is a call get started and just says to me

that you can plan and plan and plan and edit and

edit and tweak and tweak.

But the person who put something out there that's maybe less

than perfect and starts getting some results is going to be

far ahead of someone who's waiting till everything's perfect.

I totally agree.

You know,

we all know people who are going to write that book

or they're going to start that business or they're going to

do, going to do,

and they talk all about it,

but nothing ever happens.

And if nothing ever happens,

then you're never going to know whether it's going to be

successful or not.

Right. And it is,

I mean,

everything you do,

it's going to be a little uncomfortable when you get started

because it's new to you.

But everybody starts at that place.

Everybody starts at the beginning.

It's kind of like that time in that you don't have

a choice,

but to do so.

I love that quote,

perfect gift biz listeners,

when Kevin and I first started talking,

he was generous enough to send me a draft version of

his book because we were trying to zero in on exactly

what to talk about today.

But I think I've narrowed it in just a couple of

topics that I want to talk about.

And the first one is referral marketing.

The reason I wanted to talk about this is getting referrals

from your current customers is one of the easiest and least

expensive ways of doing it.

But so many of us are nervous or just don't quite

feel comfortable with doing that.

So I thought maybe Kevin could help us out a little

bit here.

Can you talk a little bit more about what the value

is of referral marketing?

Yeah. So,

and I think you picked a great topic here because it

is by far one of the best ways to grow a

small business.

And a lot of people don't really have a plan for

that part of their marketing.

So I think there's two really big points to make about

the value of referral marketing.

The first is that it's by far the lowest cost of

acquiring a new customer,

but there's a lot of different ways that you can acquire

a new customer that people can hear about your business advertising.

Of course they can search online and find you that way

you can be doing public relations,

all kinds of things,

but all of those other going to cost more money or

take more of your time than getting referrals.

So referral marketing is by far the lowest customer acquisition cost

for you.

The second thing is that customers who are referred to you

tend to be more ideal for your business.

For example,

if you had a shop that makes custom signs,

you know,

hand painted signs or Woodburn signs or like that,

and someone comes to you and says,

I was just at my friend's wedding and I saw the

sign that you made for their wedding.

I loved it.

I want one just like that.

Well, number one,

the friend probably told them about how much it costs.

So they're not going to have sticker shock when you tell

them what your prices are and they're going to be willing

to pay what you charge.

Number two,

they already have a very good idea of what you can

do and how you operate and all of that kind of

thing. So they're not going to complain as much.

They're going to be a better fit for your type of

business. And they're just really going to be a easier customer

to deal with.

I never thought about that before.

You know,

I thought about the credibility in terms of,

if someone refers it,

you know,

the product is probably there,

but in terms of them being,

I mean,

in terms of product quality,

but in terms of them being pre-qualified with price,

you're absolutely right.

Yeah. But why do you think that people have trouble?

You know,

I I'll see people,

even in my mastermind,

people just get a little bit anxious or they feel uncomfortable

putting something in place where they're asking for referrals.

I think there's a lot of reasons to,

and they vary from people thinking maybe that they just don't

deserve it,

thinking that it might turn people off or,

you know,

whatever. But I think the two big reasons are really that

they just don't know how to do it and that they

don't make it a habit.

That's the key to really being successful at getting more referrals

is putting a step into your process where every single time,

that's the point in your process where you ask for the

referral. For example,

if you have a brick and mortar store and a point

of sale,

and you are handing a customer,

a receipt that could be your trigger for every time I

hand a customer,

a receipt,

I asked them if they've heard about our referral program and

I never hand a customer receipt without asking them that question.

Obviously, if you have an online business,

it might be done via email or whatever,

but there has to be a point in your process where

every single time that's where you ask for the referral and

it has to be automatic.

So I Think,

you know what you're saying,

that's a little bit differently is that you already have a

program set up.

So you're not asking someone for a direct referral,

like, Hey,

do you know any friends who could also use the service,

which is what I typically think of a referral,

but you're saying to talk about,

oh, we have a referral program.

Let me make sure you're Aware of it either way.

I mean,

if you don't have a program and you're just asking them

for a personal introduction,

like, do you know any friends who might use our service?

That's fine too,

but you still have to have a point in your process

where you do it and it has to be a habit

and you have to have the discipline to do it every

time. And I guess the more you do it,

the more comfortable you'd be with it as well.

Yes, exactly.

And by the way,

it will not turn people off.

These are people who like you,

they're continuing to do business with you.

People actually are wired to give referrals.

It is something that is in our nature because it adds

value to our relationship with people when we can help connect

them with companies that they're going to be thrilled to do

business with.

And that makes us more valuable to them.

And a lot of people don't even realize this,

but it's actually psychologically in our nature.

So when you help people do this,

help them connect their friends with you so that they can

impress their friends.

It's actually helping them out too.

And so if someone is listening right now and they don't

have a referral program,

a structured program,

can you give us some tips or steps on how one

would get started?

Sure. I've got three things that I think your listeners should

start with here.

The first,

and these are kind of related to two different types of

referrals, by the way,

because we often think of referrals from customers which are great

referrals from other business owners,

which sometimes are even more valuable.

So for a referral program for your customers,

I would simply start by asking every customer that you deal

with. And I'm thinking about starting a referral program.

If you had a choice between getting X,

Y, or Z,

when you referred a new customer to us,

which would you prefer and just kind of getting some feedback

from your customers about what would incentivize them to give you

more referrals and they'll give you some great feedback.

So that's where I'd start for customer referral program for getting

more referrals from other business owners.

I would suggest starting by visiting and meeting of your local

DNI chapter that's business network,

international chances are there's one within five miles of wherever you

are in the country that most,

maybe 20 to 30 miles are literally thousands of chapters in

the United States.

And what you'll find at a BNI meeting is anywhere from

15 to 30 local business owners who are ready and willing

to give you referrals and who have been trained by BNI

on how to do that.

So it's,

anyone can visit the meeting,

just contact the chapter president on the BNI website and find

the time and location and schedule a time to visit one

of those meetings.

And I,

in part,

as part of their structure,

referrals are set into their meeting flow.

They have a structure for each meeting,

so you're right.

That's a great idea.

It's an easy way to start feeling comfortable with referrals.

Yes. And if you join BNI,

they actually give you all kinds of training about how to

ask for referrals,

how to network,

it's really a world-class organization.

And then the last thing I'd suggest for those of you

who go out and buy or book,

one of the bonuses we offer,

which I think we'll talk more about later is a free

copy of a book called renewable referrals,

which one of my co-authors wrote,

which is all about how to form long lasting strategic partnerships

with other small business owners and or giving away a copy

of that to the first a hundred people who come to

the book website and fill out the form.

So even though we've sold over a hundred books at this

point, we've only gotten 30 or so people who have requested

that book.

So there's still quite a few available for your listeners,

but It is finite.

So if you're interested in that and a better jump on

it, but I guess,

yeah, we are going to talk about that a little bit

later, too.

Okay. Fabulous.

And I'm just going to jump back really quickly to when

you're talking about customers,

you know,

if you're getting customer buy-in,

which first off I think is a fabulous approach.

Kevin, I've never thought of it that way either,

but I think anybody who's a little less than comfortable will

also start seeing the reactions that the customers are sharing.

You know,

if you're just asking a question,

like what would be valuable to you as part of a

referral program?

You'll see that they'll say,

oh, well let's do this or let's do this.

They probably aren't going to say Nat,

don't do a referral program.

Yeah. I,

I, if you're saying customers,

you know,

if you're having customers tell you,

you know what,

I really don't think I'd be comfortable referring you to anybody.

Then you have some problems.

I mean,

that's, you,

you got some other things you got to deal with.

Yeah. It's always the fear,

right. But I've never heard one story where that's happened to

anybody ever,

but we always still have that fear.

I'm not sure why let's wrap up this portion of the

conversation. We've now covered the value of referral marketing,

how to overcome,

you know,

your concerns about asking for referrals and then some great steps

to get started.

If you don't have a referral marketing program or even have

been thinking along those lines at all fabulous information.

Kevin, thank you for all of that.

The second topic I wanted to talk about is event marketing.

Particularly for those people who already have a brick and mortar,

it's way easier to get started and do some type of

an event,

but it's not exclusively for brick and mortar.

Anyone who's home-based sells online could also do some type of

an event.

So I think it really is applicable for everybody who would

be listening today.

Let's go with that.

Kevin, what would you say about event marketing?

Why should you do it?

Well, I think that can be covered in two words.

So, and those words are face time.

I'm using the word FaceTime a little bit loosely because if

it's an online,

not necessarily be literally face-to-face,

but it's interacting with people personally,

versus just having them browsing your website or reading something.

You sent them in the mail or whatever.

And you are the number one sales tool that your business

has. So when you are in front of a person talking

to them,

that is by far the best way that you can convince

them to know like,

and trust you and does do business with you.

And events are a way for you to do that with

many, many people,

anywhere from dozens to maybe even thousands of something like a

trade show that wants.

So that's in a nutshell why you should be doing events,

Especially if you have mostly your logo out there,

who's behind that logo.

What's the voice.

What's the face behind the business.

And a lot of people I know there's been a lot

of research done with social media.

Like, should you use your icon or should you use a

personal face?

A lot of it is trending to that personal approach is

so important and it does equate to more sales.

It's been shown that it does equal additional revenue by putting

yourself out there as a real person.

Yeah. So what's involved in event marketing.

Well, there's so many different types of events that you can

do it.

You've got online events like webinars,

you've got self hosted events,

special events at a brick and mortar location.

You've got sponsoring other people's events and then trade shows and

all kinds of different things.

So I think the first thing you need to do is

kind of decide what type of event you feel most comfortable

doing and that you have the resources to do.

So for example,

let's take trade shows just as an example.

And when I say trade shows,

I'm talking about anything that involves your typical vendor booth scenario.

So that might be a booth at an art show or

a, a fair or anything like that.

Sidewalk Sales this time of year are a big deal.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know,

community events where vendors can sponsor and get a booth and

that kind of thing.

Okay. That's an easy one to do because you don't have

to bring in the crowd,

the event,

people whoever's putting it on,

take care of that for you.

You will have to kind of put together your booth and

decide how it's going to be organized and all of that,

but you don't have to worry about marketing the event.

And that's a big plus of course,

those will cost money in terms of whatever they're charging for

the booth space.

But a lot of times they'll still be a lot cheaper

than putting on your own event.

So that'd be an example of what's involved in one type

of event.

Obviously if you're say doing a webinar,

you're going to be some software that you have to set

up and some online marketing that you'll have to do and

that kind of thing.

So each kind of event really can vary widely in terms

of the time and energy involved to make it successful.

If you had to give a couple of clues as to

what someone should do to ensure that their event is as

successful as it could be,

what would you say about that?

I'd Say that regardless of the type of event,

the three things that you need to do to make it

successful are to plan,

practice and follow up.

Let's take that example of a trade show.

Again, you need to have a plan for what your goal

is for that specific event.

So are you trying to actually sell products from your booth?

Are you trying to capture leads for an email list to

follow up with people later?

Or are you doing both?

What do you want to get out of this then once

you know what your goal is,

you have to come up with a plan for how you're

going to accomplish that.

Then once you have the plan,

you have to practice the event.

So this may sound silly,

but if you're doing a trade show,

you actually have to take some tape,

measure out the space that you have for your booth set

up your table.

Exactly. Like it's going to be set up the day of

the trade show,

time yourself when you set it up.

So, you know how much time it takes to set up

and then have whoever's going to be standing there,

stand behind the table and have people come up and practice

an interaction with them.

Like I said,

it sounds kind of silly,

but it is so helpful to determine what conversation starters you

need to use the flow and the logistics of the booth.

Like if you have an email signup form,

which side of the booth does it have to go on?

So it doesn't interfere with maybe someone else who's trying to

buy something.

So you really have to actually practice the event.

Of course,

if it's a webinar,

you need to practice your presentation and that kind of thing.

Let me stop you there before you go on.

That's really important advice.

Just the whole logistics.

Like I'm going back to the physical instead of online for

a minute to logistically know where everything should be and how

it can flow.

Nicely makes a lot of sense because I've been to a

lot of shows where booths are totally congested.

You couldn't get in there to ask a question to save

your life and people walk away.

I mean,

it's good to have a lot of people at your table,

but it has to be a smooth flow where it can

introduce new people in or else you're going to lose people.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think it's so critical if you're doing that kind of

vendor brew situation,

you need to be capturing names and emails for your email

list. I've actually seen,

it's a surprising number of examples where people had some sort

of giveaway that they were doing in their booth,

which is a great,

a great idea to do like a sweepstakes or giveaway.

And they were having people sign up for it by giving

them a name and phone number,

but not getting an email address.

Then when I asked them why they,

you know,

through the course of that conversation,

I realized that all they were going to do was call

up the winter to let them know that they had one,

but they weren't going to do anything with the rest of

the names.

And I'm thinking,

wow, you don't even get what you're doing here.

All Those valuable prospects gone.

Yeah. So you need to be capturing emails and contact information

if possible,

get their physical address,

phone number and email,

but at least their email address.

And that Gives everybody at the booth something to do too.

The worst thing is if you have someone who's just sitting

there doing nothing,

you know,

passive booth attendance versus interacting with people who come by.

Yeah. And then going back to my list of three things,

most important part of making the event successful is following up

with people who attended your event.

I'd already have an email written and loaded into an responder

for using one of those that get sent out the day

of, or the day after the event that the latest thanking

them for attending and trying to move them one step down

your sales funnel,

make that call to action in that email and then have

some sort of plan for following up with them on an

ongoing basis.

So whether that's adding them to your email newsletter list or

that direct mail campaign or whatever,

that's where the money is,

is in the follow-up.

If you don't do any kind of follow-up from an event

you really kind of missing the point in wasting most of

your money.

Yeah. So you're saying you don't just wrap up and go

home. Yeah.

Yeah. People I've seen again,

so many examples,

especially in the gift industry where people think of a trade

show as a one day event where they're selling their products

from their booth and they think of their results in terms

of how much product we sell that day,

while your question really should be,

how many leads did we capture that day for future sales?

Absolutely. I agree with you.

Totally. The other thing,

and I just want to bring this up because it's a

pet peeve of mine,

and I don't even know if it's really legal,

but some shows will give you afterwards a list of all

the attendees who have been at a show if they haven't

come to your booth and actually asked for information,

you have to be careful how much you market to them.

I'll get emails from people who will say,

oh, it was so great seeing you at the show,

thanks for stopping by our booth.

Guess what?

I don't even know who they are.

I was not by their booth,

you know?

And it was just a random email.

And instead of me then feeling just neutral about that business,

I'm negative because they really don't know what they're doing.

Yeah. Sue,

and that's a very good point.

And I'll answer your question about whether it's illegal.

It is in the United States,

you are allowed to send emails to anybody as long as

you're complying with the rest of the can spam act.

And that is legal to send an email to that list.

But what you want to do is say something like,

just in case we missed you at the show,

here's a little bit about our company.

Here's where you can sign up for our email list.

If you'd like to learn.

And then just send that one,

email that one time to the list that you get from

the trade show,

and then don't ever send anything to them again,

unless they sign up for your own email list.

Yeah. If they sign up,

then you can start going down the funnel or whatever you're

doing as you were mentioning before.

Right? Fabulous information on events.

And for our listeners,

if you've never thought of doing events as a way of

customer acquisition do reconsider because that personal touch means everything.

And you'd be surprised.

It's also fun.

You get to know a lot about your customers,

which can help you with future business development as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right,

Kevin, we're going to go now into our reflection section.

What is one natural trait that you have that you would

say has helped you to be successful?

That would have to be self-disciplined.

And that really comes a lot from my training as,

as a pilot,

which is a very strange background for a marketing consultant,

but transfer well.

And that's certainly one of them,

because as a pilot,

you're trained to do things the same exact way every single

time, no matter what,

no matter how tired you are,

no matter what kind of day you're having,

you always do things the exact same time,

because if you don't,

people could die.

I'm not being melodramatic at all.

When I say that,

that's the purpose of everything that we do in the course

of every single flight is to protect lives while fortunately in

the marketing industry lives are not at stake,

having that same mindset as to the processes that I have

in my business.

And just the habits that I have in my life,

applying that idea of self-discipline to those has really gotten me

far. Really good insight.

Thank you for sharing that.

What tool do you use regularly to keep productive or to

help create balance in your life For this one?

I have to give a shout out to a friend of

the book,

John Ferrara and his great CRM tool,

nimble, which I use myself as.

There's a lot of CRM systems out there,

but I that's the one I use.

And I really liked some of the features that has to

help me keep track of all the people I'm interacting with.

Then I need to be following up with and all that

kind of thing.

So nimble.

Oh, sounds like something we need to check out.

Absolutely. So now I want to talk about what book you've

read lately that our listeners would find value in.

But before we do that,

I want you to go over and talk a little bit

more about your book,

the small business owner's guide to local lead generation.

Absolutely. So,

and thanks for the opportunity.

We're really excited about this book.

I wrote it together with four other duct tape marketing consultants,

and each of us is an expert in various areas.

So when you combine the five of us and the years

of experience we have working with local business owners,

I think we really came up with a very powerful guide

indeed. And we were fortunate enough to get some endorsements from

people like Ivan Meisner,

the founder of BNI,

and some other bestselling authors,

CEO, FreshBooks with some of your customers might even use for

their bookkeeping.

So we're really excited to get this out there and put

it in the hands of as many small business owners as

we can.

I'd mentioned in the beginning that,

and totally impressed because you put so much valuable content in

a book that's pretty easy to digest.

Yeah. Well being small business owners ourselves,

we know how press listeners are for time because we are

in the same boat.

So we knew our book couldn't be longer than 200 pages

or so,

or people just wouldn't get through it.

We've got your back.

Don't worry,

but put together a bonus package for anyone who purchases the

book and already mentioned the free copy of a renewable referrals

for the first 100 people.

But I've also got a free bonus chapter on video marketing

and a e-book on the 66 most successful lead generation tactics

got a couple other eBooks from duct tape marketing video interviews

with all the authors,

some downloadable templates to help you with your website and marketing

kit and all kinds of great stuff.

Wow. The book is just the start.

Absolutely. Yeah.

I think the resources are almost even more valuable than the

book. The website for the book is local lead gen book.com.

That's where you can access all the bonuses.

There's a form you can fill out to put in your

confirmation number after you purchase it on Amazon,

and then you'll get instant access to all the bonuses.

Okay. And after everybody reads that,

what other book should someone look into?

The one I like to recommend?

And one of my personal all-time favorites is one called success

principles by Jack Canfield,

who was the creator of the chicken soup for the soul

series. And it's just a book that's packed with the ideas

and principles that have been used by really most successful people

throughout history to get to where they are.

And it was a book that literally changed my life and

is what led me to start the journey from becoming an

airline pilot to a small business owner.

And what do you mean by changed your life?

Well, the first principle in that book is take 100% responsibility

for your life and for your results.

At that time,

I was in a very bad place in my life.

Just really hating my job.

I was going to work with lots of other people who

hated their job.

People think being an airline pilot is glamorous and exciting,

but it's really more like being a glorified bus driver and

the industry's just not a really great industry to be in.

So I'd go to work and complain about everything and all

my coworkers went to work and complained about everything.

And then we'd go home and do it again the next

day. And I realized that I needed to take responsibility for

the fact that unless I changed something that was just going

to keep happening when I started wrapping my mind around that

philosophy and really embracing that that's when I said,

okay, what am I going to change?

That was the first step on a very long journey.

That's led me to be talking to you today.

Wow. Well,

and I'm glad you did because we wouldn't have this book

probably if you weren't,

if you didn't make the change as well,

your book,

I mean,

you know,

give biz listeners just as you're listening to the podcast today,

you can also listen to audio books with ease.

I've teamed up with audible for you to get an audio

book. Like the one that Kevin is mentioning for free,

all you need to do is go to gift biz,

book.com and make a selection that's gift biz book.com.

Okay, Kevin,

we're going into my favorite part of the interview and that

is the dare to dream question.

I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

This is your dream or goal of almost unreachable Heights that

you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What is inside?

Well too.

That's a great question.

And I feel like I should give some kind of deep

philosophical answer here,

but to be honest,

the first thing that came to mind was I'd really like

to achieve some kind of financial freedom by the age of

50, so I can retire and do whatever the heck I

want for the rest of my life.

So that's maybe not the most philosophical answer that you're all

here, but it sounds pretty good to me.

Well, you know what?

It's not supposed to be a gift for anybody,

but you,

and I think putting something out there like that,

you know,

saying exactly when and being able to have your freedom at

that point,

that doesn't mean you're not going to keep working,

but it means that you don't have to,

if you didn't Want.

Exactly. And that's a very good point when I say,

you know,

whatever the heck I want,

that might well be continuing to do what I'm currently doing,

but I could also choose to do something else.

And that's what I want is the ability to wake up

every morning and do whatever I want on that day.

That combined with what you were talking about with your lesson,

from success principles,

they both go right in line with each other,

especially as business owners,

you know,

of our own businesses are completely in control.

If there's listeners,

you know,

you're looking to build your business.

That's why you're listening here.

We can all take the advice and share in your dream,

Kevin. All right.

So how can our listeners get in touch with you?

You've talked about the book already,

but how could people get in touch with you if they

wanted to learn more about services?

And the other things that My business is called RedPoint marketing

consultants, and my website is red point marketing consultant.

And that's where you can find all the information about me

and what I do and my social media links and all

that good stuff.

And as you All know,

if you jump over to gift biz,

unwrapped.com, you'll find Kevin's show notes page and that'll have all

the information.

It'll have links of everything.

We've been talking about a little bit of a review of

the whole interview.

So if you've missed anything,

don't worry,

it's all there and available for you on that page.

Kevin, thank you so much for all of the valuable information

that you've shared with us today and may your candle always.

Thank you,

Sue, and thanks so much for having me on the show.

Learn how to work smarter while developing and growing your business.

Download our guide called 25 free tools to enhance your business

in life.

It's our gift to you and available@giftbizonrap.com

slash tools.

Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the

next episode.

Would you like to be on the show or do you

know someone who can provide valuable insight from their experiences?

If so,

we'd love to hear from you.

All you need to do is submit a form for consideration.

You can access the form@giftisunwrappeddotcomforwardslashguestisunwrapped.com

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