144 – From Law to Pottery Paradise with Scott Obernberger of Twice Baked Pottery

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That's what makes them courageous.

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Here is your host gift biz gal,

Sue Mon height There it's Sue and welcome to the gift

biz unwrapped podcast.

Today, I have the pleasure of introducing you to Scott open

burger of twice baked pottery.

Scott started twice bake pottery as a hobby business eight years

ago. At that time,

he was a criminal defense attorney practicing in the Milwaukee,

Wisconsin area three years ago after practicing law for more than

18 years,

Scott closed his practice due to stress related health issues,

and he became a full-time patter and merchant twice.

Baked pottery has its working studio and store in downtown Racine,

Wisconsin. In addition to production and running his store.

Scott participates in approximately 40 juried art shows each year throughout

the upper Midwest.

Oh my gosh.

That sounds like a lot twice baked pottery has come to

be known for producing fun,

functional pottery for everyday use Scott.

I am thrilled to have you on the show.

Welcome. Thank you for having me.

I appreciate it greatly.

We start off this show in a little bit of a

different way,

and that is by having you describe yourself through a motivational

candle. So if you were to create a candle that completely

describes you,

what color would it be and what would be the quote

on your candle?

I guess it would be purple just because I've always liked

purple and the quote.

It would just be one word.

It would be the word forward because I've always believe very

firmly that you just need to keep moving forward too often

in business,

whatever type of business people get nervous or worried about the

small things.

And one of the lessons my dad taught me early on

was don't worry about the income that the business generates.

Just keep working hard,

keep moving forward,

and the money will happen and you don't waste your time

panicking or being nervous or stressful about income.

Just keep moving.

And it's always worked.

It's interesting because I think,

and I tell people this a lot is if you're thinking

of going into business,

especially if it's a hobby,

you can't be looking at money first.

You have to really love what you're doing or you're not

going to be successful.

So that kind of goes with what you're saying.

Moving forward.

Really enjoy it,

work hard obviously.

And then the money will Come exactly the word forward to

me. It also encapsulates so much more.

It focuses you on production.

Just keep working,

just keep getting things done and everything else will fall into

place. All right,

well, I want to talk about your story because this is

very interesting to me.

You know,

being a criminal defense attorney is so much different than making

pottery. It is a bit different.

There are many things that I took away from the career

that are wonderful at and follow with me.

But I went to law school after I'd been working for

about a year out of college.

And I was at that age where nobody takes you seriously

before you're 30.

So I thought I might as well see what happens and

applied to law school,

got into three of them and decided,

okay, we're going to go to law school.

And eventually after graduating,

I ended up landing at a criminal defense firm.

And after a brief period there decided it was time to

go out and open my own practice.

So I had my own practice for about 16 of those

years and was extremely busy at the time I quit.

I had 90 active clients,

20 of them were in the state court of appeals here

in Wisconsin,

one in the state Supreme court and then about 70 at

trial level and was at the courthouse and had finished my

fourth, eight 30 court hearing and waiting for the elevator.

And all of a sudden got a weird sensation,

a hot,

heavy achy feeling.

It wasn't painful,

but it just was extremely weakening down my leg,

right side,

right arm up into my head,

sat down a massage that side because of course I can't

be anything serious.

I carry my briefcase on that side.

So I must've just pinched a nerve,

felt better.

After about 10,

15 minutes,

got up and went and continued doing court hearings for the

next week,

but felt like garbage and thought,

you know what?

I need to see a doctor went and saw the doctor

and the doctor very politely told me that I'm an idiot.

I probably had a Tia,

which is essentially a warning's stroke and that I needed to

have a Doppler and an echo and a brain MRI.

And when he used the word brain and MRI together in

the same sentence,

I looked at him and said,

okay, I guess we need a letter.

I'm on medical leave effective immediately.

I'm done.

And I quit right there,

contacted the courthouse,

got all of my clients,

a new attorneys,

and then tried to figure out what am I going to

do now?

Wow. This was a real marker in the sand for you.

And why did you associate the Tia with your career?

Well, it helped that it was at the courthouse,

but I'd been pretty unhappy as a lawyer for probably the

last seven years.

And it got increasingly bad over the last year and a

half that I was practicing and it's important work.

And thank God,

there are people who are able and willing to do it,

but there comes a point where you've seen so much sadness

and so much destruction and so much misery and so much

waste that you just can't take any more of it in.

Right. That's quite honestly what the law is.

You're handling everybody normally at their lowest point.

Well, specially your area in criminal defense there,

but in so many others,

it's not often that people come to the lawyer because they

want to build something.

Yes, that happens.

But it's a very limited part of the law.

Most of it is somebody is getting sued.

Somebody is suing them.

They've been aggrieved in some way.

And you watch all of this sadness and frustration,

and there's only so much you can take in before you've

had enough.

So hindsight,

now I have two questions for you.

If the Tia hadn't happened to you,

do you think you would have just kept going?

I think I'd probably be dead by now.

Cause it was really doing you in the stress of the

job was really doing it.

Yeah. The Tia was three years ago in October.

And if I'd have continued on the same path that I

was on,

I would have been dead probably in about six months to

a year is my guess,

Oh my God.

Gosh. Well you paid attention.

So that's a heads up for all of us listening because

I know we have a lot of listeners who currently have

a full-time job and are doing a hobby or craft on

the side.

Kind of like what you were doing initially by second question

for you with this potential transition.

Do you have any advice for someone because you had already

seen that maybe you'd put in your time,

this was great for you for a long time,

but now you weren't getting the fulfillment out of it that

you once did.

Would you have any comments for anyone who's in that position?

Absolutely. One of the big impediments to me,

at least in my thinking,

because I had wanted to leave far sooner than I did,

but we convinced ourselves that we can't do anything different,

that this is all I know how to do.

This is the only thing I can do.

I do it well,

but I don't know how to do anything else.

And it's really,

really a foolish thing because we're so much more resilient and

so much more able to adapt than what we think.

And you just have to sometimes move forward.

You have to just say,

okay, I'm going to jump.

And I trust that quite honestly,

that God's going to catch me.

And I mean,

that's an important motivator for me,

the doors don't close without windows opening.

So go ahead and go through that window literally to anybody.

That's a good quote,

Scott, I'm liking that,

But don't let your fear prevent you from moving forward.

One of the things that I've tried to live my life

by is we think that people who are courageous don't have

fear. And that's just the silliest notion,

ever. People who are courageous,

know what fear is.

That's what makes them courageous.

They move through it.

Anyways, they go forward.

They're the ones who are courageous because they know what they're

walking into.

They move forward in spite of the fear.

Yep. And what's amazing is once you make the decision and

you start moving forward and you're focusing in on what you

are wanting to do,

that fear disappears almost immediately because become so focused on the

goal and on the steps you need to take to get

to the goal that you don't even think about.

What if it just kind of goes away?

Cause it's not really an option,

So right.

It's just,

people are so afraid to take that first step,

but once that's happened,

then momentum starts and then you get going.

Yeah. And there's going to be moments of failure.

There's going to be things that go wrong.

There's going to be construction problems.

If you're working on building a location and all those things.

But one of the lessons that I took away from the

law is wherever you make a mistake,

you're probably going to have four to six different opportunities to

fix it.

So don't let your fear of making a mistake,

prevent you from doing something or moving because then you're so

locked in that you're never going to do anything.

If you let the fear prevent you from moving very good

point, Get into pottery now.

And how that entered into the picture.

About 10 years ago,

a very good friend of mine had bought me a class

and it was more of an open studio than a class.

It was over at UWM Milwaukee.

And for the next six or eight weeks,

I forget what it was.

You could come in.

And the official class was once a week.

And then you had open studio.

And I went in and the instructor was a young student

who, you know,

did his best,

but he more or less just gave us a big block

of clay and said,

go. And I had a blast.

It was relaxing.

It was calming.

There was no phone ringing.

There was no brief deadline.

There was no client demanding,

some sort of attention or result.

And I,

through what I called at the time,

I called them bowls.

But now they're basically big,

heavy doorstops and they looked awful,

but it was fun.

And it was relaxing.

Yeah, you were learning.

Exactly. And I had no art background when I was a

kid. I couldn't draw.

So I never took an art class.

It's what my generation thought of as art.

So I never really was exposed to clay before.

I was shocked at how much I enjoyed it.

And I kept signing up for a once a week,

evening class at different working studios.

And then I thought,

you know what?

I'm going to sign up for a class down in North

Carolina, namely.

I wanted to see how my body would react to being

in a studio 14 hours a day,

because at the time I'm approaching 40 at that point.

So was this after you had stopped?

No. This was just a sideline thing you were doing.

And still,

this was one of those windows that was being opened for

me that I didn't even realize it.

And I loved it and I just wanted to keep learning

more and I kept thinking,

gosh, wouldn't it be great if I could turn this into

a career and stop practicing with the realization that I'm never

going to make the kind of money that I made as

an attorney.

And that's fine,

the money is hardly worth it when you look at lifestyle

and quality of life,

but loved it.

And so I took my first class down in North Carolina

place called the John Campbell folk school.

And I recommend it highly to everybody.

And I not only had a blast being in the studio,

learning and seeing my work improve considerably and learning from a

great Potter.

But I found that you're in a studio with 12 other

potters and all of us were learning from each other,

from the beginner all the way up to the senior in

it. Because the nice thing about the pottery community is it's

a very collaborative community.

We are very quick to say,

Oh, how did you do that?

Oh, I did it this way.

Or what tools do you use?

Or I use this tool.

Have you ever tried this one?

And it's amazing how much the pottery community is willing to

share with potters and not get trapped in proprietary concepts,

Just following this new hobby that you love,

that you're getting passionate about because you're wanting to learn more

and more and techniques and all of that.

And then you find a community that you're enjoying.

Now, you live in Wisconsin.

So were you traveling down there regularly?

Or how was that working?

What I would do it's John Campbell does a week long

class and it's an intensive where you're in the studio,

five, six days,

14 hours a day.

And it's kind of like summer camp year round for grownups,

you stay right there.

They feed you three meals a day.

And by the way,

they do lots of different art forms.

So I encourage everybody to take a look at it as

an option.

It is very reasonable and they really do a great job,

but you just stay right there and you focus in entirely

on your class.

I go down there once a year.

And so I'm actually going to be going in April.

That'll be,

I think it's my sixth or seventh time down there.

And just each time you learn so much from all the

people that you're spending time with in the studio,

it's a great way to get that art degree that you

never got before.

Right? I'm thinking too,

for you,

it was balanced.

It was putting you in a different mindset.

You're saying how much you enjoyed the peacefulness of doing the

pottery. So it balanced out what you were having to do

with your full-time career at that point.

Exactly. I'll suggest to give biz listeners to you guys,

as you're listening to this story,

Scott didn't even know it,

but he was developing this skill for his craft that would

turn into a business.

So if you are kicking yourself because,

or maybe you're in a situation where you really do need

your nine to five job right now,

but you're doing your craft on the side.

And maybe you're a little bit frustrated because you can't start

anything. Maybe just yet.

Don't think of it that way.

Think of it,

perfecting your art so that when you could,

if your dream is to turn it into a business,

you're perfecting the skills.

You're perfecting your product for the time when it is going

to be right.

Or even the idea that you actually have begun your side

business because the learning curve is part of the business portion.

Sure, Absolutely.

I agree with you there too.

Okay. So let's jump forward now to your done with your

in law.

What happens?

What do you start doing to get twice baked Patrie up?

Tell us that part.

Initially I did a statewide search for a location.

I figured out very early on that my business model,

I wanted to focus largely on shows.

I found that shows are oftentimes the best way to get

maximum exposure to an audience that is focused on buying the

things that we sell as artists and I needed a place

to work.

I needed a place to live,

and I wanted to find a location that would be either

a tourist zone or close to one or an up and

coming area.

That would be inexpensive enough that I could buy the building

and create a workspace,

a living space.

And then the bonus of a storefront.

Since I'm going to be downstairs working 60 hours a week,

it's nice to be able to open the front door.

And if people walk in and buy things,

that's a sale you wouldn't have made otherwise if you were

working out of your basement.

Well, the other great thing about that is it doesn't stop

you from producing because you're right there anyway.

Right? And you're not having to staff of retail shops either.

Exactly. It's kind of a nice middle ground and I bet

you people like to come in and just watch you working.

They do.

I found a great location.

I'm in Southeastern Wisconsin and Racine right on main street.

I'm in the downtown area.

a friend of ours and myself renovated the building entirely.

We kept to the original exterior and didn't modify the interior

too terribly.

We just basically turned the space into more of an adult

space, a grownup space prior to my buying of the building.

It had been a paint,

your own ceramic store for kids.

So it was designed out very much for kids.

And we just did some significant changes to the space,

but made it open concept.

So when people come in through the front door,

they're immediately in the store area,

but it's open all the way back to the kiln rooms

where they can see how I throw,

how I make product,

all the different product and different steps and stages of production.

And it gives legitimacy to everything.

They know that what they're buying was made right there And

they get to meet you,

the artists too,

which is very cool.

And hear your story,

or just communicate with you kind of the same touch point

that you get when you're out at shows too.

Exactly. So that's really interesting that you took the leap right

away, found a building interesting that you moved,

like you really dove into this with two feet.

I might say two feet in a pillow.

Oh yeah.

Do it right.

Do it once.

Right? Why do it in little steps if you already know

where you're going?

Just jump in.

Exactly. So you have to make some inventory to get started.

Oh yeah.

So you found your building,

you built it all out so that it was going to

work. You moved all your furniture up.

So you're all moved into this new life.

I'm guessing had to start by building some inventory,

making products,

and then also deciding on your name,

all that kind of thing.

What fun stories can you tell us around that time?

Well, my ex had come up with the name and he

was quite brilliant in selecting the name of twice baked pottery,

the idea being,

you know,

a play on words with twice baked potato,

because I have this awful reputation of eating way more potatoes

than I should.

And it also helped sort of to educate in the sense

that a lot of times people don't understand that every piece

of pottery needs to get fired twice,

that the steps in making pottery,

just like any art form,

people see the most dramatic step of it.

And they think that it's made and they don't understand that

that's just one of maybe 15 to 20 steps or stages

of that item before it gets to completed final product.

Interesting play on words there.

So again,

I'll just make a note for our listeners here.

If you're considering a name for your business or a new

line in your business,

two things,

the play on words of something that you loved,

which I think is fun,

Scott, but then also something that's interesting or different in the

production of your product.

So two interesting ideas there.

Thank you.

Okay. So how do you start getting visibility?

Well, it helps when you're on main street,

but I immediately joined the downtown Racine corporation,

which is kind of like the downtown chamber of commerce.

And they were very helpful in getting me initially some exposure

in the local newspapers.

Also, they got me in front of a local TV show.

That's broadcast fairly early in the morning,

but was able to get some good press with that.

And then also you just focus in on the fact that

it's going to take a while.

You have to be prepared that it's going to be a

good year before you see real income.

And I don't say that to scare people,

but it's actually kind of liberating if you approach it from

that standpoint and you don't keep looking at the bottom line,

it takes a while.

People don't just automatically know you exist.

You have to advertise.

I advertise fairly extensively in the local and regional publications.

I also do Facebook ads,

things like that.

One of the things though that I've found to be very

helpful too,

that I thought would have an effect,

but it's had a greater effect.

I'd originally anticipated by doing shows.

The shows,

sell the store and the store sells the shows.

And I have developed a client base and a clientele that

are willing to drive up here to the shop or down

here from Northern Wisconsin,

because they like the product.

They like the things that I make and they know that

by having a store,

they can come in anytime and get pretty much whatever it

is they're looking for in oftentimes the color they want.

Right? Because all the inventory is there.

You only bring a portion of it to the shows.

Of course,

exactly. Since we're talking about visibility right now,

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How long was it from the time you started till you

did your first show Since I'd been doing shows prior to

this, because even though it was a hobby,

it became a hobby business.

After throwing pottery for two,

three years,

I started doing shows.

I was doing about 10 a year before I went full

time. Okay.

So you already had experience with shows,

which is another good point.

I don't really talk about a hobby business versus a full-time

business. How would you define the two?

Well, huh.

Maybe business is,

I guess just in some ways it's a part-time job And

it supports your hobby.

Correct? I was making enough that it covered the costs of

all the materials covered the cost.

As I bought equipment,

which was another benefit by doing this for about five years

before I went full time,

I had acquired a film.

I had acquired my wheel.

I had bought all the tools I needed.

I had a supply lines companies that I had a history

of working with and where I could get the types of

things I needed.

I'd also had the benefit of literally three to five years

of experimentation,

finding out what glazes work best,

what clay bodies.

I liked best,

everything like that is important because once you change a clay

body or a glaze,

you could change your entire line of product.

So I had the benefit of experiment time.

Now the experiments keep happening all the time.

Of course.

But after a point you sort of settle into,

this is the clay.

I really like.

And that's the one I'm going to use as far as

I'm concerned until I'm done,

but you're always experimenting.

I'm always looking at new glazes,

trying to pick up new ideas.

But the five years before I went,

full-time really did give me an opportunity to hone my skills

and to develop some of those things you don't necessarily think

about until you have to,

Right? So you were already bringing in some income at that

point. Talk to me a little bit about how you were

pricing your products in the beginning and how you arrived at

what your price could be.

Cause again,

by your admission,

you're looking at covering product costs,

but you had to have some profit built in there.

If you're also had enough money to buy equipment.

Exactly. And it was making enough that it would buy some

groceries from time to time.

So we were certainly at a point where we were making

some profit from it.

So you were making money,

which means it really was a business.

Yes. Right?

I always tell everybody,

if you're not making any money,

you might be collecting money and not even necessarily even covering

your costs,

then you don't have a business.

The first time you make one penny you've started a business.

Exactly. How did you go about determining what your pricing should

look like?

Pricing was one of the harder things because you're never sure

what to Mark something yet.

What is it worth?

What is willing to pay for it?

And so I would figure out what are my costs?

What are my fixed costs on an item?

I don't sit there and plan out how much I'm going

to get paid an hour.

It's too subjective.

Although the ultimate decision,

I guess,

is subjective.

My ultimate question for an item.

When I price it is what would I pay for it?

And it sounds a little crazy,

but if you gauge things based off of what you would

pay for it,

you're going to find that that gut instinct is probably pretty

accurate on pricing it for what other people are willing to

pay as well.

It seems to have worked because within 10 months of opening

my doors here downtown,

I had not only been able to cover the costs of

the improvements to the building,

but we were starting to turn a technical profit.

So it's been a profitable business so far.

It's not a business I'm going to ever get rich on,

but it's certainly enough to pay for my living expenses and

save a little bit of money.

Well, yeah.

And your whole quality of life is different.

I mean,

you can hear it in your voice,

how much you love what you're doing.

So I didn't know you before,

but you could just tell like the passion,

but in terms of the pricing,

you knew how much,

at least it was costing you.

So you were certainly not going to go lower than that.

And you also recognized you had production time in there and

additional costs.

And clearly like you just said,

I mean,

whatever you're doing is working perfectly.

One of the things that I learned early on is never

make just one.

If you're going to make one,

make 20,

if you're going to make 20,

make a hundred,

because number one,

other people are going to want it too.

And they're going to want to buy it.

But at least with clay,

once you start throwing an item after you've thrown one or

two of them,

muscle memory kicks in and it's amazing how much quicker you

get as you keep throwing that item.

And so time is money.

Time is something you have to factor in.

And if you can make multiples of the same item in

rapid succession,

that's the way to do it because you're going to save

money in the long run by saving time.

That makes a lot of sense.

The muscle memory I would have never considered before It kicked

in far quicker than I realized.

One of the concerns I had when I designed out the

studio was when customers come in,

they're going to want to talk to me and I'm going

to be at the wheel.

Am I going to be able to throw and talk at

the same time?

And it was surprising within a week or so.

It was seamless.

The first few times are awkward and a little bit strange,

but pretty quickly you get to a point where you're not

even really realizing it,

but you're throwing the item.

As you're talking to people and explaining what you're doing.

And it's a pretty fun thing to do.

That's a whole technique in and of itself is doing both

at the same time.

I'm guessing.

And plus you have probably people pulling out their cameras and

taking pictures and all that It's happened.

And the other thing I'd recommend to people is that if

you do open up a shop,

you have it as a working studio,

which I think is the great way to do it.

But as you're working,

when people bring their kids in,

encourage them to let their kids come up,

to see what's being done,

kids love watching people,

make things,

it totally in grosses them.

And it's a great way to get parents to not only

be very appreciative of the fact that you included their children

in the process,

sort of,

but you now have a customer and you may have another

customer in 10 years when they come back and say,

I was here when I was eight and you,

let me watch is you through a vase and I want

a mug to cause I'm going off to college.

So you're building relationships with people and it's something that you

can do organically and without even realizing it oftentimes.

Yeah. And you know,

and I think the word spreads too,

because that little boy to use your example probably went home

and told his friend,

and then he wants to come and see what's going on

or that same little boy whenever they're in the area,

Oh, let's stop by and say hi to Scott.

See what he's doing right now.

All of that just builds on itself without you having to

spend a penny.

They're just walking in Exactly the best marketing is word of

mouth. I mean,

we talk about,

okay, ads are expensive.

Facebook ads can add up after a while,

but ultimately word of mouth is the way to go because

people talk and people talk about positive experiences,

just as much as they talk about negative experiences.

And it's important that you leave people with as positive an

experience as possible because they'll come back and they're going to

tell other people and they're going to bring their friends and

it just starts to grow.

Yep. And I think what I've heard from you in terms

of word of mouth,

was getting connected up with the Racine corporation who was able

to then get you some publicity,

some on-air publicity.

So that helped having a location with your door open.

So people could walk in,

they're just walking by curiosity or they knew about you.

So they came and then also your visibility at shows,

those are your three ways to get exposure,

to then get people,

to refer you or talk about.

Absolutely. One of the things they do at shows is I

have my own flyers for the store and I give those

out to everybody.

And I also have flyers for downtown Racine.

One of the things I've worked hard to do is get

other merchants to work together,

to do collaborative advertising.

I figured out pretty much early on that I was starting

to get people come special just to my shop and they're

driving an hour,

hour and a half just to come to one pottery store.

And so I said to all of my fellow merchants,

imagine how many more people will come when they realize that

there's enough here for a day trip.

They're not just driving for one store.

So let's work together on this.

So I handout with every purchase and to anybody who's interested,

I give them a flyer,

not only for my store,

but for the downtown merchants.

Well, You aren't kidding because I'm holding both of those in

my hot little hand right now.

And I'm going to describe,

so his flyer has photos of the pottery on the front,

a little bit of a description of the gallery in the

studio. So it's kind of welcoming people.

You can come visit also very important.

Has the address phone number website.

Of course,

I know a lot of you are hesitant,

but Scott has his picture on there right there making pottery.

So lots of very enticing photography just inviting you in plus

a little map to show exactly where the location is.

So that's his piece.

And then the downtown Racine,

Wisconsin, you put this one together or did the community put

it together?

Well, I sent out an email to about two dozen fellow

merchants and said,

you know,

we should be doing this.

And I was the one organizing it,

but we had a wonderful young graphic artist,

sweet lady over at one of the other merchants who was

willing to spend the time putting it together.

And from the first email to final completed product,

we had our first print run done in 45 days.

These are not things that take a long time.

You just have to put your shoulder into it.

And within 45 days,

we had our first print run of 10,000.

We went through it in about seven months and we are

on our second print run now.

And we'll be doing a third print run probably in the

next couple months.

It's great.

You guys?

Yeah. The cover is just kind of a look at the

downtown inside is a photo from each shop and a little

description. And then the back of this is great plan.

Your next day trip.

It's perfect.

And what's exciting is as the merchants down here saw what

we did.

We now have a wait list of stores that want to

get in on the flyer,

but there's not space available yet.

Oh, wow.

Is this a profit for any of you guys or do

you guys just divide the costs amongst yourselves to get it

produced? We just divide the costs amongst ourselves.

Our first print run a 10,000,

the design work and the print run came to like 71,

$72 per merchant.

It's a great way.

Not only to send the message,

which is an important message to everybody that there's a lot

to do here,

but it also cuts your advertising expenses considerably.

One of the other things that a number of us do

down here,

there's about half a dozen of us who work together to

purchase full-page ads.

And then we divide up the cost of the full page

ad by doing that,

we cut our advertising costs anywhere from 25 to 30%.

We get choice position because we come in and we buy

the page.

So we'll usually get an insider or a back cover.

And it's a great way to work together.

Too many businesses view their colleagues as a competition.

And you got to stop viewing other stores as competition or

other artists is competition.

We're all collaborators.

We're all working together.

Our goal is to get people downtown and shopping.

One of the things I look for when I go and

do shows,

I know a show is good.

When I see people carrying bags,

they don't have to carry my bag,

but they have to be carrying bags.

And that means that you've figured out an equation or a

recipe of bringing shoppers buyers to one location and they're going

to buy and they're going to buy from my neighbor.

They're going to buy from me.

You don't worry about who they're going to buy from That's

right? Because if they like handmade,

then they're going to want pottery.

They might want knitted,

scarves, whatever the different things are.

Exactly. Scott,

do you have any problem with me showing this visually to

people? The flyer you're talking about both.

Oh gosh.

Yeah, no problem at all.

I'd appreciate it.

So I have an idea.

You guys give business owners when you are listening to this

live. So that's going to be the week of January 8th,

2018. I will be doing a Facebook live that week on

gift biz on wrapped on our Facebook page.

And I'm going to be showing you both of these promotional

pieces and talking it through with you guys,

just like what Scott was saying.

So you can have a visual,

this is potentially something that you could get together.

Even if you're someone who's home-based,

you could put together fairs or events yourself with five or

six other people.

And just like Scott saying,

you can collaborate.

You're not competitors with each other.

So anyone who's interested in seeing these visually check out my

Facebook live on Thursday,

January 11th,

2018. And we'll review this.

This is a really,

really great piece of information,

Scott. I'm so glad we got into it.

Sure. And I can tell you that the flyer that I

do, I get it printed by Vista print.

Not that I'm trying to plug accompany,

but I've found it to be incredibly quick.

And the price for that cardstock flyer for my shop comes

out to about a nickel,

a piece.

Wow. But you have good photography too.

You had a professional photographer probably didn't you.

Yes, no.

It's beautiful.

Glossy on one side,

Matt on another very high quality Vista Prince.

Great. They turned things around so easily.

You just have to give them good quality in and they

can give you good quality out.

We are going to need to start winding down shortly.

But I have to ask you where there was a stumbling

block along the way,

because everything sounds so great.

Now clearly the risk to your health was a big issue,

but on the twice baked pottery side,

can you share with us a stumbling block or a real

challenge that you had to get over to be where you

are today?

Whatever stumbling blocks I had doing the pottery business paled in

comparison so much to the previous career,

they didn't feel much like stumbling blocks.

So it's hard for me to say when your experience from

the prior career is you're representing a client on a homicide

case and you've got absolutely zero argument and you're literally just

watching the ship sink.

There's really been very little that's comparative you,

a guy who keeps it all in perspective.

Yeah. You're going to have chances to fix whatever mistake you

make. You said earlier,

what did you say?

You'll have three or four chances to fix any mistake?

Is that what you said At least?

And you just have to be aware of the signals.

You have to watch what is going on around you.

And if you watch carefully enough,

you'll see where the trouble might be coming and you can

probably address it before it even arrives.

And on the trial front judges would sometimes look at me

when we're at a break outside of the presence of the

jury and stare at me like,

why can't you make your client do something different?

And my response was usually,

you know,

judge, sometimes you're not the captain on the Titanic.

You're the guy in the cold room shoveling.

You don't get to choose necessarily the direction in some careers.

The nice thing about having your own business and making your

own product is you really get to choose absolutely every part

of what you're doing.

And the wonderful thing when you're a small company is if

something doesn't work,

you didn't just order 200,000

of an item.

You may have ordered two dozen.

You can quickly turn on a dime.

Too many people get so nervous and afraid of their larger

quote unquote competitors.

They view Amazon or Walmart or these other mega companies as

being competition.

They're not my competitor.

And the fact is,

is even if they were every positive is a negative.

Every negative is a positive people.

Look at these big companies and they say,

they've got so much.

I can't possibly work against them.

Well, yeah,

they're a big company and they've got more resources than you.

But the fact is,

is they can't turn on a dime.

They're too big.

When they order an item,

they order 200,000

of them.

And now they're committed to that.

You can turn on a dime.

If you make a product that people don't seem to gravitate

towards, you can say,

you know what?

I ain't going to make it anymore.

And the worst you've got is investment in maybe a couple

dozen of them,

but you can change your entire direction.

Just like that.

Absolutely. I could not have said it better.

So what would you say to the person who's listening here

right now and wants to do it,

but takes a step back,

thinks about doing it takes a step back.

Here's you speaking how great life can be on the other

side, outside of your corporate job,

something that's challenging or you just don't have the passion for

anymore, but they're afraid to take that step.

What would you say to that person?

I would say move forward.

There's no reason not to.

And the fact is,

if you make a mistake,

if you take a wrong turn,

you can always go back and either fix it or go

back to what you were doing before.

Who says that once you quit something,

you can't go back to it.

If you change course and find out that by changing course,

you actually have gone the wrong direction.

So change course again.

Perfect. Totally agree with that.

Okay, Scott.

Now I am going to ask you to dare to dream.

I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.

It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.

So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable

Heights that you would wish to obtain.

Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.

What is inside your box?

I'd have to say the continued love and support of my

family and friends and the people who are important in my

life. Those people have gotten me this far and those people

will continue to help me in ways that I would have

never dreamed possible.

And I don't say that as a cop-out to the question.

Quite honestly,

I'm very content.

I'm extremely happy.

I can't imagine having a better career and a better direction

and better people in my life than what I've got.

So you have reached what we all strive for.

Specially, if you are moving from one thing to another and

taking on your craft or hobby,

you've done it.

You're there.

The cool thing about it though,

Scott is you recognize it too,

and you're appreciating it because you never know what will happen

in the future.

So you are really showing gratitude for everything that you have

right now.

I mean,

I've been blessed in so many ways.

My folks,

God love them.

They're with me helping out in the shop every day.

In fact,

my mom right now is downstairs helping out because stuff just

came out of the Killam and my dad comes in and

helps out.

And my boyfriend is supportive and helps out with so many

different things.

So I've been blessed in so many ways and some people

may not like to hear it,

but God has helped me out so many different ways.

And I'm just grateful to him and to everybody for the

gifts that have been given to me,

What you've just said here this last two minutes is what

we're all looking for.

Some of us have gotten there.

Some of us are striving to get there,

but to hear you say it so well is energizing and

motivating to all of us.

So thank you so much for that.

And I love it.

It's not a cop out at all to me.

Well, thank you.

I think it's fabulous.

So how could our listeners get in touch with you if

they want to see more of your product?

Well, they can either look on my website twice baked,

pottery.com or come on over to the shop.

Perfect. And do you ship things from your website?

I can ship.

What I tell everybody though,

is if you see something you like on the website,

call my shop.

I do everything by phone.

I don't do things over the internet just because I found

too much fishing is happening and I don't want customers to

be subjected to that.

All right.

Wonderful. Scott,

thank you so much.

This has just been a jam packed interview in terms of

your story and all of the valuable things that you're sharing

your perspectives.

Well, so I really,

really appreciate your taking the time today.

We did this early.

So, cause I know your shop opens in just a couple

of minutes.

So I thank you for fitting us into your day.

And I wish for you that this continued love for what

you're doing,

appreciating and enjoying the pottery and having it all work for

you continues forever.

And this idea of moving forward and all of that.

Cause I always relate back to the candle.

I want to see you keep moving forward to exactly what

you're looking for and may your candle always burn bright and

happy new year to you and to all of your listeners.

Thank you.

Same to you.

This episode is all wrapped up,

but fortunately,

your gift biz journey continues.

Are you eager to learn more?

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